UKH

Lord Heseltine has now had the Tory whip removed over his opposition to Brexit it seems.

Does this demonstrate that even a dyed-in-the-wool Tory of the old school can have a decent moral position, and is willing to stand up for it no matter what ?

In reply to fred99:

Yes.

Made the position worse by getting rid of him. 

In reply to fred99:

Well now he really is a loose canon!

Given the recent voting records on the back benches, should we now expect the erg+ to get the same treatment?

In reply to fred99:

It's difficult see how the Tory party can survive in any form resembling its past if Heseltine can't support it.  Ken Clarke next??

In reply to fred99:

Absolutely - there are a good few Tories who stand up for sincerely held beliefs. They're not all worms like Cameron, Johnson, Hunt, May, Hancock, Osborne, Gove, etc etc etc etc etc etc. Some, like Anne Widdecombe, are incredibly foolish but still deserve credit for their integrity. Others, like Ken Clarke, are absolute legends. I think Heseltine is a fundamentally decent man with heaps of integrity, these days at least.

I'm sure if I looked into the policies he was instrumental in when I was a kid I'd be appalled (as with Ken Clarke*), but now, let's give credit where it's due.

*It's not only Ken Clarke's political performance over the last decade or so that's bloody brilliant. It's his knowledge and appreciation of jazz music too. 

In reply to fred99:

Although Heseltine in his Tarzan days was a conference favourite and a darling of the blue rinse brigade I think he was always in the damper wing of the Tory party and IIRC was one of  the oft-criticised 'Wets' who tried to soften  and/or delay some of Thatcher's harsher policies. Given that all political parties are essentially coalitions and the now somewhat out-moded constraints of collective responsibility for Cabinet ministers, I am sure he will have gone through the lobbies to vote for policies he did not support many times. That is the nature of party politics - or at least it was before the current free-for-all

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Surprisingly, and against all my natural instincts, I'm starting to warm to Gove.

Not quite sure why. Maybe just not quite as much as a c@nt as all the others...

In reply to Oceanrower:

Me too! 

In reply to fred99:

He is awfully old now....

Even Trumpet might have mellowed by the time he's 94

In reply to fred99:

Actually on second thought he'll only get worse.... apologies to the UKC collective for any disturbing imagery the idea of an older uglier version might have initiated in your already troubled imaginations

In reply to Wiley Coyote2:

I remember his efforts to mitigate some of the worst vandalism of the Thatcher years with Development Corporations and a few other initiatives. They weren’t entirely successful and I didn’t agree with all the principles behind them, but it was a concerted and principled effort. A bit of old fashioned, one nation paternalism.

In reply to Oceanrower:

Warming to the person that is Michael Gove is a strange response. But I've said on here before, that in a Tory party full of bullshitters and fantasists, Gove stands out as a man who can actually get things done. He exudes a level of competence which is beyond Johnson, Davis etc. You then have to look at Department of Education and decide whether getting things done is always a good thing.

In reply to The New NickB:

Was he responsible for the "enterprise allowance"?

In reply to Oceanrower:

Maybe you're attracted to backstabbing, lying bastards Even though it was Boris he's still a mealy mouthed tw*t as far as I can see.

In reply to Andy Hardy:

I don’t think so, he was Secretary of State for Environment. So probably out of his remit. Arguably the inner city regeneration stuff was as well, but it was a new idea, so probably didn’t fit anywhere neatly.

In reply to The New NickB:wasn't he also secretary for aerospace and industry or something.  Anyway, yes , a man of principle, and a long history of doing what he thought right even if it damaged his career.

I can understand warming to Give.  Far more competent than his counterparts and perhaps more principled

In reply to wbo:

Back in the 1970s under Edward Heath. Most famously he was SoS for Defence, resigning over the Westland Helicopter affair in 1986. Obviously, a serious thorn in Thatcher’s side after that and his leadership challenge in 1990 led to her resignation.