Gut microbiome

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 girlymonkey 12 Jul 2021

I find it quite fascinating to watch where this research goes over the next few decades. 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/11/unlocking-the-gut-microbiom...

 Tringa 12 Jul 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

It is a fascinating subject. The effect the gut microbiome is amazing, such as in faecal transplant. This link   https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-43815369    includes the following -

'The patient was a 61-year-old woman who had had chronic diarrhoea for around eight months and had lost 27kg in weight.

"It was really a desperate plea for some kind of solution, she was at risk of dying from this C. difficile infection, all of the antibiotics were ineffective," said Dr Jansson.

A sample of healthy stool was transplanted from her husband.

Dr Jansson told the BBC she was very surprised at its success.

"Amazingly two days after that she was able to have normal stools, normal bowel movements, she was basically cured," she said.'

Dave

 Rog Wilko 12 Jul 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

My experience suggests a daily spoonful of kefir works wonders.

1
 wintertree 12 Jul 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

Oral microbiome is shaping up to be important too, and it's very exposed to dietary habits and tooth care.

Wish I'd know that 30 years ago...

 Forest Dump 12 Jul 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

I'd be quite interested in trying Prof Specter's personalised diet thing and seeing if its helps manage my fibromyalgia 

OP girlymonkey 12 Jul 2021
In reply to Rog Wilko:

And this certainly ties up with fermented foods being important. The thing that is fascinating is that kefir might be the magic ingredient for you but the worst thing for someone else. It seems to be so personal. 

OP girlymonkey 12 Jul 2021
In reply to wintertree:

Interesting. I have never had a filling and I only usually brush my teeth once a day. I have maybe been lucky with my microbiome? 

OP girlymonkey 12 Jul 2021
In reply to Forest Dump:

Let us know if you do and what results! Interesting to follow

OP girlymonkey 12 Jul 2021
In reply to Tringa:

I saw a different documentary where similar procedure happened but this time it was from her daughter. The lady had always been a healthy weight but after the transplant had horrendous weight problems despite not having changed her diet or lifestyle. The daughter was obese. 

 Al Cartwright 12 Jul 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

This book explores the subject quite extensively, really interesting and surprisingly readable:

 https://www.tim-spector.co.uk/the-diet-myth/

 dread-i 12 Jul 2021
In reply to Tringa:

>A sample of healthy stool was transplanted from her husband.

I find the idea of faecal transplants grimly fascinating. How on earth did they sell the initial idea to the patient?

"If you drink water with poo in it, you get ill. But we're going to stick someone else's poo up your bum, to make you healthy."

Also, does that mean you could do similar with 'material' from other animals? E.g. Will the addition of dog microbiome ingredients, allow you to drink from muddy puddles and eat rotting food, with no ill effect?

Post edited at 12:03
 AllanMac 12 Jul 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

Sauerkraut and kimchi are good for restoring a depleted gut microbiome, especially after a course of antibiotics. Avoid shop bought products in jars because they are often pasteurised, which destroys most of the beneficial bacteria. Much better to ferment your own (easy to do):

https://irenamacri.com/recipes/quick-sauerkraut/

 Toerag 12 Jul 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

> Interesting. I have never had a filling and I only usually brush my teeth once a day. I have maybe been lucky with my microbiome? 

Yes.  I grew up being told my enamel was super thick and strong, yet in my 30's started seeing fillings and bad decay.  My hygienist told me that plaque starts to become irremovable after about 13 hours and that brushing twice a day was the best thing I could do to keep it down.  Next best thing I found was getting a new electric toothbrush which stutters the vibration every 30 seconds allowing you to give yourself a quantified brushing.

 freeflyer 12 Jul 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

> Interesting. I have never had a filling and I only usually brush my teeth once a day. I have maybe been lucky with my microbiome? 

Get a review with the hygienist at your dentist at some interval suitable for you; this is arguably more important than the dentist's health check. The NHS estimate that approximately half the UK population has periodontitis. You don't want it!

Fortunately there's increasing amounts of good quality information out there on gum disease and systemic gut inflammation. Take a look at Gut by Giulia Enders - informative and easy to read, although I could have done with a bit more detail.

My magic ingredients are cabbage, which saved me from IBS as a young adult, and more recently, inulin, which was recommended by Michael Mosley as a cheap means to improve your gut bacteria. I now fart for a living.

OP girlymonkey 12 Jul 2021
In reply to Toerag:

I am 39, only been to the dentist once in my adult life, probably about 4 years ago. They were shocked to find that my teeth were absolutely fine. 

I know I'm meant to brush twice a day and go to the dentist regularly, but I just don't often get round to it. I do chew gum a lot, which I think is meant to be good for you, and eat lots of fruit and veg. 

At the end of the day, I do think it's one of the things which does have an element of luck

 Graham T 12 Jul 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

There is a huge amount of work going on in clinical trials looking at major diseases and the effect on gut microbiome as a result of disease progression.

It is going to be fascinating

 upordown 12 Jul 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

I think you are a dog person - there's been some work on gut microbiomes and anxiety/aggression in dogs that's really interesting https://shop.animalbiome.com/blogs/pet-health/dog-anxiety-aggression-and-li... A very small study but it is a fascinating subject and one that may lead to us rethinking a lot of what we thought we understood.

OP girlymonkey 12 Jul 2021
In reply to upordown:

Yes, we are very familiar with food impacting mental state and behaviour in our dog. When he came to us, at 6 months old, he was really wild! Obviously, we have done loads of training etc but every time we have changed his diet we have seen marked differences. Basically, the less processed his food is, the better he is! We now feed mostly raw, with just a little kibble or bits of meat for his treat bag. 

 Jenny C 12 Jul 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

> I know I'm meant to brush twice a day and go to the dentist regularly, but I just don't often get round to it. I do chew gum a lot, which I think is meant to be good for you, and eat lots of fruit and veg. 

Fruit isn't actually very good for your teeth, far too high in sugar. 

Husband boasted about not seeing dentist for years - until he broke a tooth over the Easter Bank Holiday and struggled to find an emergency dentist. Personally I'm very happy with six month check up appointments.

> At the end of the day, I do think it's one of the things which does have an element of luck

Yes my dentist has admitted that some people do just have stronger teeth than others regardless of their oral hygiene, also I suspect that having always lived in an area where flouride is not added to tap water my teeth will be weaker.

OP girlymonkey 12 Jul 2021
In reply to Jenny C:

I did intend to keep going more regularly after that appointment, I know you are meant to. But 6 months down the line was summer, which is my manic season for work, so that never happened. Then the next winter came around, and I just never really got round to it. Then I eventually reckoned they have probably taken me off the books by now. Maybe I will go again sometime. 

I think dried fruit is much worse for your teeth than fresh fruit as it sticks to them. Fresh fruit is gone really quickly. I think you aren't meant to brush too soon after fruit though as the acid leaves the enamel more vulnerable to damage from brushing. This is why I mostly don't brush my teeth in the morning, because I eat a lot of fruit for breakfast and then leave the house. I do tend to chew gum on the way to work though. 

My husband is much better with tooth brushing and dentist appointments than me, and we eat largely the same diets. He is forever having teeth removed/ capped/ filled etc. I think luck certainly has a fairly big role for me!

 wintertree 12 Jul 2021
In reply to Graham T:

> It is going to be fascinating

Almost none of the gut bacteria can currently be cultured in the lab - massive amounts of learning to be done to get past that.  

Then there’s the gut virome - the collection of viruses infecting the human part of the gut and the microbiome.  Some funky endothelial virus interactions and also a lot of poorly understood bacteriophage stuff with very little connection to other known viruses and engaging in genetic transfer with the microbiome.  There’s a whole ecosystem in there.

 Graham T 12 Jul 2021
In reply to wintertree:

Definitely a challenge,  i suspect the first targets will be macro changes linked to significant disease states such as cancer, alzheimers (would assume will be one) and heart disease,  with more coming as knowledge expands.  I assume it will be used as a marker initially then the work starts to see if by changing the microbiome it changes or improves the disease state.

Monster challenges

 Rog Wilko 13 Jul 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

While diet and brushing regime undoubtedly influences dental health there is a genetic aspect (luck) too. So many aspects of health have such a component eg breast cancer. I do hate it when people who have the good luck put it all down to their personal virtue. A bit like the rich people putting all their success down to their own efforts.

OP girlymonkey 13 Jul 2021
In reply to Rog Wilko:

You see this all the time in discussions about weight. People who have never had a weight problem can be incredibly self righteous and won't accept that different people's bodies store weight more or less readily than others. I could eat the same and exercise the same as someone else and still be a different weight/ shape.

 blurty 13 Jul 2021
In reply to Rog Wilko:

> My experience suggests a daily spoonful of kefir works wonders.

Which one do you use may I ask?

 Rog Wilko 13 Jul 2021
In reply to blurty:

I’m afraid I don’t breed my own. I just buy one off the supermarket shelf. There’s a Yeo Valley brand and a Morrisons own called Nourish. Both a bit too sweet for my taste, but there’s another with less sugar of which I can’t remember the name. Yeo Valley also do one without flavouring which has almost no sugar, but I find that a bit spartan. 
when I’ve been using it regularly I find I get less burping after eating and what I might call a quieter bowel.

 Neil Williams 13 Jul 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

> You see this all the time in discussions about weight. People who have never had a weight problem can be incredibly self righteous and won't accept that different people's bodies store weight more or less readily than others. I could eat the same and exercise the same as someone else and still be a different weight/ shape.

There's also genetics at work - in the days when food was scarce, the genetic ability to stuff your face once then survive not eating for a few weeks would have fairly considerable evolutionary advantage.

I'd be interested to see where the balance is on the likes of ultramarathons.  I don't know about anyone else, but I find it *very* difficult to eat anything substantial when I've been running as it churns my stomach, and so a small amount of fat might be useful to burn instead rather than completely conking out or starting to burn muscle.  I doubt you need much to achieve that, though, maybe just a few pounds, certainly not a rotund beer gut!

Post edited at 13:13
In reply to Rog Wilko:

I grew my own for about a year and drank religiously everyday. I had a huge herx reaction the first day I tried my concoction Thought I had made a huge mistake. After that, the benefits were very good, although they did seem to plateau.

A good friend claims he hasn't had a cold or felt unwell since starting to drink his own kefir culture two years ago! Who knows? it clearly seems to be working for him although I have yet to understand how it stops you catching a cold lol

 Rog Wilko 13 Jul 2021
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

I think not catching a cold is probably a by-product of covid restrictions. 

 Rog Wilko 13 Jul 2021
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus

> A good friend claims he hasn't had a cold or felt unwell since starting to drink his own …… 

just for a moment I wondered what was coming next

In reply to girlymonkey:

I heard a fascinating radio 4 show the other day that was saying that the appendix is now viewed as a very useful thing because it is the body's reserve store of good bacteria for the body

OP girlymonkey 15 Jul 2021
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

Wow! Amazing!


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