UKH

R4 this morning, well worth listening to. Firstly, the fisherman's representative, who has suddenly realized that what Nigel Farage promised - free money without consequences - can't be delivered.  I'm sorry for any individuals who were banking on a fishing fairy, but sorry folks - your greed and gullibility has cost this country more than you will ever know. At least you will be able to console yourselves in the coming months that there's going to be quite a few others who are equally disappointed. 

But the real gem was Gove, who finally explained the benefit of Brexit for industry. Let me see if I can summarise his argument. 1) There is a whole world out there desperate to buy our 'products'.  2) Unfortunately, selling to the EU was too easy so exporters weren't prepared to make the effort to sell to them. 3) Now we've left the EU, it will be just as hard selling to the EU as anywhere else. 4) These new barriers that will have to be overcome selling to the EU, will give us 'practice' for selling to the rest of the World.

This is called 'being match fit.'

I didn't hear him but did see on the BBC News app that he is saying what we all knew would happen but of course none of the Brexiteers want to discuss - that we all need to buy comprehensive travel insurance before we go anywhere else in Europe, and that we need to check the roaming charges on our phones before going to the rest of Europe because they could go back to be ridiculously expensive.

....

....

So that's just f#€%ing great isn't it. I feel my life improving already. :-I

On reflection, I owe Gove a vote of thanks. His behaviour as education Secretary was influential in my decision to leave teaching after 20 years. 

I have not looked back. I am happier, wealthier, less stressed and have more time to enjoy life. 

So credit where its due, thanks Pob. 

(and now I have lured him in, I will give him the kicking he deserves) 

That was certainly the take away message wasn’t it. The only thing stopping businesses in the UK from exporting outside the EU up to now was that they weren’t well practised in form filling.

hahahahahaha.......that's brilliant even for Gove who comes out some absolute bollox at times.

My sister has her dual Irish passport, and will never teach in this country again.

She is in Spain teaching and loves her job.

My niece left teaching a few years ago and is now happier in the Police force.

Then perhaps some of us will apply for an Irish passport!

My ex-girlfriend worked her socks off under Gove, as did you all. She gradually worked her way out first of all doing part-time(she had been head of English), and part-time lecturing. Then she went full time lecturing....Ironically in teacher training, firstly with Troops to Teachers, and then more generally.

I'm not sure that I would want another teacher as a girlfriend, and I cannot be alone in this approach.

My understanding is that the mobile companies aren't going to go back to roaming charges. So since we are now calling anything that is roughly the same as before a massive win for Brexit, then that is a massive win. Although one suspects that they might just be sat there waiting for one of them to crack and introduce a new 'Europe Data Plan' with a 'revised and improved' charging structure.

Alan

That's exactly what they said during the referendum campaign, that they wanted to make it harder for British business so they would become more resilient and resourceful. At least Brexiteers are consistent and have delivered precisely what they promised.

Strongly suspect you're on the right track at the end. The story I read a couple of days ago had all the operators using weaselly phrases like "no current plans" or "not planning any extra charges at this time".

That's interesting. I have a young Spanish friend (29) who qualified as a teacher in Spain but could find no jobs, the unemployment for young people was so bad.

He came here and I helped him fill in the application for a teaching assistant. Since then he's become a full teacher, worked his way up, bought a flat and obtained the full right to remain documentation. 

Absolutely loves it here, loves teaching and couldn't imagine going back.

There are always 2 sides to every story. 

A timely counterpoint to the promise of levelling up.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/dec/23/the-puzzle-of-rising-uk-wa...

They won't change their current data plans but they'll introduce a new 'better value' plan, possibly with a patriotic marketing angle, targeted at those who are expexting to holiday within the UK.

And so it will start.

The focus on UK Freeports will be particularly damaging. They will suck in jobs and businesses from surrounding areas undercutting the UKs tax base, and there will be an erosion of rights & standards within those port areas.

The worst excesses of neocapitalism are being unleashed. If you are low skilled and poor or in debt you have tough times ahead.

never mind, we can learn a new trade - crime!

So they left because they couldn't get a job as a teacher, rather than not liking the job?  It might change after covid, but I struggle to find teachers in some some subjects, not sure that is a good thing.

I assume Brexit is going to make that harder. There was significant amounts of paperwork for a couple of Canadian teacher I employed, to the point where they wanted 3 year contracts for it to be worth the effort.  As you say, one Spanish and one French student did placements in our school and then after time as TA's stayed on as teachers, they returned home after the leave vote and it took 18 months to replace them.

Good to hear.

Yep, but international data would suggest more there are more on one side than the other.  

Another beauty here:

Bloody Europeans, comin' over 'ere, providing medical care for our children.

I understand what you mean in this case but often there aren’t two sides. This is the false balance fallacy- sometimes there is the truth and nothing else. 

A little reminder.  

And of course the lie that all the nonsense is built upon, that anyone daring to question is shot down.  

Utter nonsense.  Schools that get nearly every child to that level are schools that don't have a fully inclusive comprehensive intake, that find any excuse to pass those children elsewhere, so that the schools who get those children can be blamed.  

I'm sure I remember a lot of talk about how Brexit would cut out all that EU red tape...

Speaking of Gove I learned a new word today.

Lucifugous

adjective, shunning the light.

I was being sarcastic

I guess the interviewer didn’t ask why numerous EU countries do much better at trading with the rest of the world than the UK (including the Commonwealth), whilst still being in the Single Market. The trade argument for Brexit is, and always was, bollocks. 

I spat my coffee and taught the baby some new words when I heard that, satire is dead.

I just cling to hope that one day there will be a reckoning for these cnuts.

Jk

Gove is as much of a lying gobshite as Johnson, just with an intellectual veneer. 

Gove is worse. Johnson is a compulsive liar, he just says whatever on the spur of the moment. You can generally bet that he's lying. Gove is more reserved, calculated and cunning, and as you say creates a veneer of intellectualism. If anything he's harder to repudiate.

I'd be happy to give his adverbials a thorough fronting.

I suspected you were; just checking...

I have an overwhelming urge to kneecap the bastards:

"You'll thank me for this one day, it'll force you to become tougher and more resilient as you hobble about."

I remember that exchange, although given this from a few year before

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19801666

I wasn't surprised. What are the odds that Gove got the question wrong, but was confident in his own abilities?

If there was a coronavirus league table (deaths per. or economic impact) where would we be? I'd like to see him explain our well below average results to an external inspector. Not sure Priti chipping in that we have been  "consistently throughout this year been ahead of the curve in terms of proactive measures" would help his case.

Well, obviously, the more we suffer difficulties with covid, the more 'match fit' we will become...

Perversely  Gove could possibly be right. If you are a business and your domestic market shrinks then one of your options is to consider exporting as a way forward. 

But Gove misses a crucial point that businesses need that desire in the first place and also a suitable product / service to sell.

it’s nothing new for UkGov to be perplexed as to why U.K. businesses do not export more.

Of course the easiest people to sell to are the countries next to you, the EU. Selling to say the USAor China first time round is just not a good idea from a business perspective. Something that seems to escape Gove. 

It would also be helpful if he knew that numerate and literate is not entirely the same as getting a C or a 4 or 5 or whatever it is now.  

I've worked a lot with students who can and should feel proud to achieve their entry levels because they've worked for them.  

I'd love to spend more time on real life maths and numeracy, but instead I find myself fannying about with some mastery based nonsense that somehow is too hard for most of the class and too easy for a few.  

Anyway, enough of Gove.  He is bad for my blood pressure.  

Yep, I worked hard for my C in higher maths and didn't work at all for my A and Bs in my other subjects!

Now, I wish I had been taught about working out which mortgage deal is best! That would have been useful maths!

I guess ex-journalists don't understand business. Especially ex-journalists who come out with soundbites like 'f*ck business'...

'it’s nothing new for UkGov to be perplexed as to why U.K. businesses do not export more.'

I would think that most things that happen in the real world are perplexing to the likes of Cameron, May, Johnson, Gove and Patel, none of whom have ever created, run or even been involved with private sector enterprises in their entire lives.

I literally spat my tea out when Gove came out with that tripe.

Not sure you should trust maths teachers for financial advice. Most of the ones I worked with didn't fully understand the effect of the 2015 changes on their own pensions.

It predates the current gov. Unfortunately politicians of all hues  just do not understand it. 
 

Nothing new I am afraid. 

Well, yes, but we've never seen anything as remotely inept as this before. Come on!

The most galling thing for me is that presumably Gove thinks he is fulfilling some sort of useful role when he comes on the radio, when in fact he is saying nothing useful and adding precisely zero value. How do these people manage not to sound just a little bit sheepish?

Speaking as an 'exporter' of UK services to Canada, the support for exporters is piss poor and seemed to amount to the laughable 'Exporting is Great'.  Germany spends something like 3 times the UK does, as well has having a coherent industrial policy, education and training, etc.  All the issues with the UK as a trading nation is the result of domestic policies of successive governments over the last 50 years and pretty much zero to do with the EU.

I have tried selling to the USA and it is almost impossible. Not because of red tape, although that doesn't help, but because you can't drive a lorry there and it costs a fortune to send heavy books by airmail. 

Alan

The sad thing is that most of our far-right political pontificators have absolutely no knowledge of the harsh realities of business and industry.

He's a weasel....mixes the lies with some loose truths and it's laughable that he thinks he's getting away with it.

I think you've forgotten a possible mode of transport . 

The trouble is that he, and they, are getting away with it. They are not challenged on these matters by interviewers (see above). They still get elected. The lies and incompetence are not exposed by mainstream media. They are actively excused and obfuscated by large sections of the dominant, right-leaning mainstream media. People have given up being outraged; they are apparently powerless to do anything about it.

I think there are printers in the US; electronic copy costs nothing to send. Yes, there are setup costs.

The problem is, he will get away with it. The combination of his wife's ranting right-wing rag of a newspaper along with the astonishing stupidity and gullibility of its readership, will make it so.

Yes, deliberately! Too slow and too expensive. 

Actually, the printers are in China (or Poland in our case). It isn't where it is printed that counts it is demand and distribution. The simple fact is that the USA is miles away from the areas our books cover so there aren't enough people interested enough to distribute or buy them. 

To return to the general point, Gove assumes that all businesses should want to export and, the bigger that market, the more they can export. On the surface this makes some sense but where the demand for, or viability of, your product drops off dramatically with distance it doesn't make sense to put resources into these markets especially if you are far from reaching your potential in the closer-to-home markets. This deal has made it harder to sell to our vast potential in relatively local markets while he claims "toughing us up" to sell to markets that make no commercial sense for small and medium businesses anyway.

Of course, this also assumes the nonsense that good businesses can only grow, there is no status quo. In fact many businesses are happy just trading making great products year on year. Growing is nice but not essential and expansive growth always comes at the cost of product quality. Focussing on making your product better will almost always lead to slow growth anyway and allow you to stay in touch with your core product and customers. Many great small businesses shrunk in 2020 but because they were well-focussed on their core product, and not over-invested in expansive growth dreams, they were able to cut back and adapt and are still around now. 

Alan

I grew my business from 0 to 60 65% turnover in the States. Did this by being realising it was the only way forward and reading up on successful U.K. businesses who had done the same.transport and distribution is a big thing there. Have you tried just to focus on 1 state or area in the USA instead of covering the whole country.  It’s a far better way of starting. 

We sent a pallet of our best-selling books to a nationwide and respected climbing book publisher Wolverine (publishers do their own distribution in the USA) and they promoted our books in amongst their own books on their online shop and retail outlets they supplied. We adjusted our margin to absorb the very high costs of getting the books there leaving very little to be shared between ourselves and Wolverine. A few years later we had to pulp two sets of books since we had produced new editions of Mallorca and Costa Blanca before the old one had sold out. I am not sure what happened to the rest but I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few boxes in the Wolverine warehouse sat in a corner since they will all have been superseded now.

There simply aren't enough people in the USA interested in climbing at Stanage. There may be more interested in Chamonix however I can't come close to competing with this - https://www.amazon.com/Chamonix-Rockfax-Climbs-Mountain-Mont-Blanc/dp/18733... (about £39.90 when I post this link - so a fiver more than it costs in the UK).

It doesn't make sense and I am not really interested in putting the effort in. Meanwhile selling books into the huge untapped potential we have in Europe is now harder. This is true for loads of small and medium-sized businesses probably much more so than Rockfax since our costs will not increase that much and with the pound tanking our books may well become cheaper for people in the EU.

I know the government are getting desperate to spin positives out of Brexit but even they haven't put 'tanking pound' on the list yet!

Alan

You also need to put the money into developing it and be prepared to fly over a few times and just “talk “to the market to understand it .There are some good Trade Advisers and govt support schemes which can help you kickstart things.

The issue of it maybe being a lifestyle business probably limits trying it. So if you are not interested it’s not going to work anyway. 

I am sure what you are saying is correct and it may apply to some businesses. I think you are missing the point that there is a huge set of businesses for which it makes no commercial sense under any circumstances. The fact that it is now being touted as a 'Brexit Bonus' that ALL businesses can now experience these conditions to toughen them up to reach these impractical markets tells you everything you need to know about real and tangible Brexit bonuses.

We are still in the level of, "your dog is dead but think of the saving in vet bills", or, "we had to amputate both legs but the guy in the next bed is interested in buying your shoes".

Alan

Whilst there are people who simply collect guidebooks, they're rather niche, and I think Alan makes a good point that there is unlikely to be much demand for UK guidebooks in the US market.

Everytime we allow Politicians to appear in the media we are giving them oxygen.

I've stopped watching any news broadcasted in this country...stick to Euro News,factual and without the 'political tripe'.

And yet there are people in the States buying some of your range of books . Possibly indicating that there  might be more of a market than you realise????

Only playing devils advocate. Trying to put a different perspective. And besides you might have to explore it to keep overall sales at a reasonable level. Sometime s the driver for exports is literally to keep the business going especially if it becomes more of an issue in Europe. 
 

Certainly I would explore what U.K. gov support is available for you as a new market  into the USA. You might find it informative and help you make decision one way or the other  After all the U.K. is the biggest global investor / importer into the USA. You may find there is a trick you are missing.there will be a specialist in DTI  somewhere with book sales who can advise you best way of doing it. 
 

If I was interviewing him,I'd ask him some really silly questions....Which way do you get dressed in the morning.

There is absolutely nothing to be gleaned from him.

That's such an odd but common phenomenon there must be a named law for it. I was very good at teaching students but failed to explain the import of TPS pension rules (especially post 2009 when pay growth stopped but index linking didn't) and pension changes to the majority of several hundred STEM academics as their UCU rep. Some sensibly looked into things, a few retired early and returned to work better protected and better off but they were the exception.

I receive a bigger increase in my pension each year from the Fire Service than I did at work..perplexing

Much cheaper than by air, Royal Mail will deliver a 2kg item to the states for £1.26 which seems pretty cheap to me. I have paid more to send a few cams to DMM in Wales. 

As you later say it's more of an issue of the product not being right for the market than logistics which is another reason why UK business can't simply switch it up and ship their product somewhere else. 

I'm sure lots of areas in the states would love Rockfax quality guides though. 

That'll be a price for a letter with a very long lead time. 

Yeah - 6 weeks but 2kg is definitely not a letter. You'd have a distributor most likely but if that price comes down any with volume, a 6 week delay for a new guidebook is no big deal. They're usually delayed in the UK for at least 6 months anyway. 

There is a big difference between the schemes: a significant number of academics want to continue work beyond retirement age because it is an important vocation to them. In some circumstances it makes sense (and is possible) to retire and continue working with a higher gross income than if they just kept going (and with protection from future negative pension changes that look increasingly likely). Even more beneficial, those retiring under 60 on TPS had no cap on subsequent earnings in the same scheme: it was possible to be earning nearly a full pension (retiring at nearly 60 incurred a tiny actuarial reduction) and take on a new full time job (with a new scheme TPS pension). A few clever folk I know did this in exactly the same role with just a break of service of one day.

£1.26 will not get you a 2kg packet to the U.S.A. Anything over 500g and you're probably looking at nearer a fiver. 

I see I didn't use the drop down, it is a fiver. Good for you for looking it up! Like I say I'm sure the costs would come down with volume. 

Didn't need to look it up thanks. My job means I sort of need to know this stuff. It's good that Brexit still relies on people not getting to grip with things like, you know, detail!

It's also good that you're sure that costs would come down with volume (just like you were sure about posting to the USA). What we can be sure is that Alan, and many small businesses, that dealt with the EU market are now facing hurdles they didn't face before. There does seem to be an unhealthy dose of what I can only call victim blaming among this thread. If only Alan wasn't so negative eh? I mean, what the fvck would he know about his business...

I am one of the lucky ones as my pension is built on 30yrs service.I've 

e ridden my luck for that length,I went when I could have stayed as you describe.

More and more are going back after a month off to comply with the re employment rule,slightly tweeking their job description also.

Cool man. Glad to know you've memorised the relevant page on the Royal Mail website before this conversation, I'm in absolute awe. I guess it must be all those 6 week letters you send to the US as part of your job. 

He said that that he couldn't drive a truck to the US nor did he want to pay the costs of airmail. I simply pointed out that the vast majority of heavy goods would be transported by sea and he should have really mentioned why that wasn't an option. If that's victim blaming then Alan can let me know and I'm happy to apologise to him. 

Obviously you're not going to be convince Brexiteers that exporting to Australia is not going to work 'because you can't drive a truck there', it was a perfectly valid point to raise and I'm not going to fail to point out specious arguments because someone might feel victimised on the internet or because it conveniently aligns with my political views. 

I'm actually a staunch remainer, but now I know how it feels to be pegged as a Brexiteer and get a good dose of UKC vitriol. 

In reply to FreshSlate:

Be a dick all you like, you came up with a bullshit price to prove (what?) point and I called you out on it. Easy enough to check if you could have been a little less holier than thou when telling Alan about what he was doing wrong about running his business.

There's a lot of 'pointing out' what people should or could be doing about running their business post-Brexit. Much of it coming from Leavers who seem to be in denial about the reality for a lot of small business operators i.e. Brexit is putting up a raft of hurdles that weren't there before and were promised wouldn't be there post-Brexit.

Who's giving you vitriol? I pointed out you were wrong about the advice you were giving Alan re: pricing to USA. You got all sensitive coming up with all the "absolute awe" and "well done you" dismissiveness. 

Good to see UKC standards being maintained with a pointless fight over postal rates! 😁

Someone's wrong on the internet innit and Brexit is for life not just for Christmas!

Fair enough r0x0r.wolfo, I'll drop it now. 

 By the way I am a staunch remainer just in case you were throwing a false accusation at me. 

And I did say to Alan I was playing devils advocate...... read of that what you may!

Not at you specifically, no. 

FYI I used this page: https://www.royalmail.com/sending/international/country-guides/usa 

Where it quotes the max weight and min price together. Classic mistake, hands up for that one. 

I hope you had a nice Christmas and you have a great new year under the restricted circumstances. I gave as good as I got and I'm happy to call it a day there, nothing on UKC is worth getting bent out of shape for.

​​​​​​As a remainer I'm already there with all the hurdles and economic self harm caused by Brexit, but to use Alan's analogy I'm now at the point of asking 'so what about those shoes.' 

No stress.  👍

I didn't take it as victim-blaming TBH, nor did I think you or Neil were doing anything other than posing interesting questions and suggestions. I do still think Neil has avoided my fundamental point that there are a huge number of businesses for which distant export markets are irrelevant and always will be.

Surface freight doesn't work for Rockfax guidebooks for the following reasons:

1) Despite what you say, people really don't plan six weeks in advance.
2) Single books are around £10. Easier to let Amazon do it for a fiver since we almost get the same return.
3) Small bulk freight gets disproportionately expensive until you get to proper big amounts which are way more than climbing guidebooks can reach.

That poses the question, how does Amazon do it? I am not really sure. I actually once ordered a Rockfax that appeared to be coming from the Caribbean for £1 more than I knew we got for the same copy of the book from our distributors. It arrived but it wasn't available a few days later. I suspect they fill pallets full of lots of books to get the bulk discount but even so, it is difficult to get the maths to add up.

Alan
 

I'm loving your optimism.

Tell me, how many US guidebooks are you planning to buy this year?

I'll retract that victim-blaming statement. It was ill thought out and not what I actually meant. 

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/sky-news-brexit-regret-6873634

I actually have some sympathy for the bloke. 

I don't think we're giving the press sufficient credit(?) for Brexit. The continual lies and unremitting xenophobic hostility of the 4 main daily titles would have a corrosive effect on anyone who regularly came into contact with them. It hasn't been possible to read the Sun for 40 years without receiving the constant message that the French and Germans are both out to get us.

It doesn't help that the BBC seems  to take its agenda from them as well. If the DM publishes a stupid lying story about some EU bureaucracy, the BBC seems to feel obliged to include it in the day's Today programme even if it is palpably a pack of lies.

My main reason for replying to gm was that unfortunately the number of 15 year old students interested in mortgages is probably as low as 25 year old teachers being interested in pensions. If I was still working full time in the same post as 2008 in real terms I would be about £25000 pa. worse off. Mrs J opted out of TPS at the correct time, but because I didn't fully appreciate the point you made above I remained in for a year too long to maximise my pension. Although assuming the McCloud judgement is upheld, I will have made the best decision. but for the wrong reasons.   

Have you considered entering the US guidebook market or does the Rockfax style or business model not work for their climbing?

Roaming charges are unlikely to return in the short term - the 'roam anywhere in Europe for no extra charge' has become too important a marketing hook and competitive edge. Add to that the operators spanning the UK and Europe with no interest in charging themselves with roaming fees and there's little incentive to change. In the background network operators may start charging each other roaming fees, but these are unlikely to be passed onto customers until the situation becomes untenable.

If exporting to the rest of the world made sense people would have been doing it before Brexit - nothing was stopping them from doing so.  The reality is that the UK's high costbase means whatever it produces can generally be sourced cheaper from elsewhere. The UK simply isn't going to be able to compete with many third world countries as they've improved their offerings over the years. Case in point - Huawei. They started life as a Cisco copycat, but have evolved into a technology giant in their own right.

Unfortunately the majority of fishermen are not terribly smart (which is why they left school as soon as they could) and couldn't see what was going to happen, or the reliance on their European marketplace. Kick the French out of UK waters and they'll be throwing rocks at your wheelhouses, blockading ports, and burning consignments of fish.

Mick Ryan published 5 Rockfax guides in the USA from 1994 to 2005 or so. They went down fine and I am sure there would now be more had he not moved back to the UK. The late Dave Pegg set up Wolverine which produced a similar style of guides which do well and Marc Bourdon in Canada has produced some excellent guidebooks for years in a Rockfax style with our symbols included. So the style works fine.

It is more a question of sticking to the areas we know and doing them well. Assuming we could find an author (far from a given) there are a lot of little things that would make it a much bigger undertaking that it might first appear. Added to that is the fact that we are doing fine concentrating on our more local areas and there are plenty of them left to expand into if we want. 

Alan

PS. I may have given the impression in this thread that the Rockfax business model is going to struggle under the new EU trade blocks hence the questions about new markets. In reality, we really aren't going to have to change much compared to many other businesses. I was just using Rockfax as an example that I know.

I would agree it’s difficult for a lot of businesses. But your big advantage is that you already have experience of exporting and that gives you a head start  ( handling dollars is the same as euros for example, so you know about currency). It’s more the unknown in the USA and finding the right distributor( who if they are good will buy the books from you up front as per normal USA distributor model) and as you say yourself your interest.  Have you thought about moving pallets of booksdirect ffom the printers to US via some form  of third party shipping deal.there is no reason why they actually have to be in the U.K. before onward shipping.

certainly  you should be able to get  DTI funding for market research visits to USA which may help.Take that as given.there are some really helpful DTI advisers out there( may even have climbing as their outside interest)

Clearly selling guides to stanage is out of the question. But some of your other products?

By the way Brexit  is a nightmare for me in my EU markets.  

Agreed.

Mind you, the same can be said of those on the far left.

What we need are fewer politicians from either extreme, and more from the centre, who can actually compromise for the greater good.

I have none whatsoever.

Those that sow the wind shall reap the whirlwind (or some such crap).

Unfortunately being an MP is less about public service and the greater good and more about 'I am'...hopefully one day we will rid ourselves of these 'chancers'

I don't agree.  What you are looking at is the scum that has floated to the top.

I think a view around most of the world would suggest that we really don't have far left or far right politicians in power.  

That's one way of putting it....unfortunately they surround themselves with like minded people.

I think what we have to be careful of...

Is how we define far left and not let others 'lean' on our thought process.

It's laughable that public ownership on Utilities is frowned apon.

What you have to realise is that Fishermen are very territorial. 

Newlyn fisherman hate fishermen from the North East...you just have to walk in a pub to find out.

Unlike fish.

Nail on the head

Fishermen from Newlyn dont like fishermen from Brixham,  or even from Penzance come to that.

Penzance..the land that time forgot...

Definitely don't disagree with you and my sympathy probably only just registers on the scale. The thing is when you're told there will be no disharmony with trading with the EU, that it's the same but we're just out, then that's his truth to believe.

But yeah, the guy has been a wally. 

BBC News - Brexit deal mentions Netscape browser and Mozilla Mail
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55475433

Finger on the tech pulse here. Match fit... Not!

(Link suggests someone has just been copying and pasting stuff in the documents, and there is mention of defunct tech.). 

I have a lot of sympathy for his staff, less for him. Incidentally I see his plane at Gloucestershire Airport from time to time, its registration is G-EELS!

This would be nice if correct however it is clearly bollocks. "Centrist" politicans can be as ideologically extreme as anyone else since after all if they didnt have an ideological stance they couldnt be described as centrist and being in the middle doesnt mean you are right it can just mean you are halfway to crazy town.

And how do you describe the likes of McDonnell saying he'll vote against the "deal" as he doesn't like it - when if it is voted down we end up with "no deal" and WTO rules.

Starmer may not like what's on offer (and nor do I - I'd prefer we hadn't left at all), but the alternative is appalling. This is compromise. This is common sense politics.

McDonnell is just a prat, and one we could do without (and the same goes for any Tories who want to vote it down because they DO want "no deal" and WTO rules).

Really. I just want to beat the f*cker up.*

*Said in one's childhood north east Derbyshire mining village vernacular.

What exactly does this spiel have to do with anything I wrote? Are you a politican by any chance spewing out the speech regardless of the relevance?

This really is the buzzword special so lets take a few bits.

1)McDonnell didnt vote against.

2)The Lib Dems did, you know the centrist party

3)Bowing down to a shit option isnt compromise its surrender. Compromise would have been pushing for a more palatable deal in the past.

I'm NOT a politician - don't be so BLOODY INSULTING.

So yet again a politician says he'll do one thing and then does something else.

I don't know whether you realise it, but we leave the EU into the new "arrangement" in 29 hours and a few minutes time. How on earth do you think anyone, let alone this "government" of inadequates could renegotiate any form of deal ?

You seem bloody good at the politicans trick of answering something else and ignoring inconvient details. Oh yeah and doubling down when you are wrong. Speaking of which:

No he didnt. What he put his name to was a statement saying that he would not support it.

You do understand there is a difference between saying you wont support something vs actively voting against, no? Especially when the ERG fruitcakes are willing to support it.

Please enlighten me oh glorious one.

You seem to be having difficulty with the basics here of your argument. Which, admittedly, is reasonable because it was rubbish but to recap.

Your claim was centrists were willing to compromise. Which I challenged. You then tried using todays brexit vote to support your claim. Now this fails on several grounds.

Firstly the centrists Lib dems voted against, so great compromise there.

Secondly the evil lefty McDonnell didnt vote against it. He abstained which you then tried to condemn him for despite the only statement I can see for him is simply not to support. If you have a clear statement of him saying he would vote against then provide it.

Thirdly you dont seem to have understood my statement about the time for the centrists to compromise wasnt now it was two years ago. You know when they didnt as indeed the centrist party didnt today.

So even when you tried to make me defend a position I hadnt claimed you completely and utterly failed. Doesnt bode well for your original claim does it?

I'll just leave this here. My favourite way to watch it is to press the left arrow on my keyboard when it gets 2 seconds in. Hours of pleasure.

youtube.com/watch?v=HAqyf7a4xFM&

Brilliant 😀