UKH

We're expecting our firstborn in July and we're both very very excited. I'm actually enjoying looking at little clothes and finding the right cot and talking about parenting styles and all the guff that was a total non-entity to my world six months ago. But...

Pushchairs, oh my word, the pushchairs. So many seemingly identical things ranging from £400 - £1400 before you even start to try whittling it down to 3 or 4 wheel, how "off-road" do you want it to be, front or back facing, belt systems blah blah blah.

My question is this: Does it really matter? Is the extra money for similar worth it, even if just up to a point, in people's experiences? How much does one really need an off-road pushchair? Is it just another gimmick designed to ensnare the outdoor gear-addicted? Or do the cheaper ones fall apart after a year and a bit, or explode once they hit gravel or single-track?

Any advice or sympathy gratefully accepted.

My advice: just like bikes, 2nd hand is your friend here.

I feel for you, we just got a second hand deck chair folding type McLaren and also had various carriers the best two being an ergo? and macpac rucksack type one.

When I saw the price of some pushchairs I thought, where is the gps and stereo?  Having said that I can see the argument for these modular systems that allow car seat to be dropped into them but when you see some poor parent struggling along the pavement or unable to get into a shop, or onto a train or bus with these huge contraptions you do feel a bit sorry for them.

Good luck and I hope whatever you get works really well for you.

Cheers

Toby

Get one that takes the car seat without having to take a sleeping baby out of the carseat!!

It will make me feel better thinking they paid £1400 to achieve it, when I'm next passed by one with two children aboard, at the Parkrun.   Goddamn Pushchairs.

I'm not wholly convinced of the "all terrain" pram concept. If you're going off road then you'd probably want a sling/backpack anyway. Before you go all in on expensive slings for taking the baby up hill and down dale, I'd advise having the baby first and allowing a little cooling off period to see if that's what you want to do. Taking quite young babies up mountains is all the rage at the moment and you'll find lots of articles espousing the benefits. If that's for you then that's great. For us we dipped our toes in the water but it seemed like a lot of faff for relatively little enjoyment. There's plenty of time to introduce them to the wilds when they're a little older.

I can only speak from personal experience which has been buying my sister-in-law's Bugaboo Cameleon 3 when her two kids had done with it. Everything about it is great, the only complaint is that the front wheels clog up with mud when we go on the canal towpath in winter. That's maybe where your "all terrain" pram would come in handy, but prams are so expensive that you probably want one that does everything, and I'd hate to have to maneuver in a tight space with one of the all-terrain things.

We've had the thing for nearly four years, and prior to that it had been in service for a number of years. I've had to replace the front wheels as the bearings went and they were far too rusted and seized to get them out and replace them. Most stuff on a Bugaboo pram is modular so, if you can't fix it yourself, you can get replacement parts easily. I'm sure the same is true of other big brands.

The only issue is price. The initial outlay is expensive and official parts and add-ons are also expensive. Given that the life-span of a well-built pram from a reputable company is probably going to be a long time, then consider looking for second-hand stuff. When it comes time to move ours on I expect we'll be able to sell it for a decent price as it's basically as good as new other than for the colour fading a bit on the sun shade.

Depends what the paths are like near you. Phil and ted 3 wheel was great for bridleways with ruts round here which the little wheels wouldn't cope with. 

I think I have away at least 3 so look out for friends with growing kids, charity shops when they open and ebay etc. Obviously it's nice to have brand new but they will be lots around with plenty of life. They are much easier to service than bikes but look out for punctures if you get one with real tyres. 

I forgot to mention. You can flip the handlebars on our Bugaboo (and maybe on other prams too) so that the big wheels are at the front. This makes it a lot more off-roady for any rougher bits you might encounter.

2nd hand all the way, anything else is wasting money.

My experience is that it falls into roughly 2 categories, ones suitable for newborns, who need to lie flat and ones for when they like to be sat up/can sit up. There are some which try to do both jobs but the ones that are better for newborn tend to be less suitable later.

The newborn stage is very quick (even if it doesn't feel that way with your first) and they'll be happy more upright in only months so go for second hand. Whether your better half is happy with second hand for this or not is your domestic considerations. Almost everything like this second hand is the way to go (although never use a second hand cot mattress).

Later... once you get to sitting up stage, a second hand Phil and Ted sport (or similar) is the way to go for walking outdoors! Imagine trying to roller skate over gravel versus mountain biking over gravel, that's the difference between a small wheeled stroller (fancy folding push chair thing) and something like a real-tyres Phil and Ted.

Best wishes, good luck. Oh, and did I mention to use second hand stuff?

Are there any pushchairs which let you switch between face-to-face and looking head? I'm often struck by how much younger children enjoy the face to face interaction with their parents, while older children can seem to like to look around and take in what is ahead of them.

From watching parents struggling,  'off road' pushchairs with larger wheels seem less like a super market trolly and 'bloody irritating' than the kind with tiny wheels, the same principle applies to mountain bike wheels, with a shallower angle of whatsit between the larger wheel and the obstacle.

Second hand standard foldable pushchair (Maclaren) worked fine for us once she was past the tiny-babe-in-arms stage (during which we had a simple car seat that lifted out like a basket). Any need to go off-road and we used first a front-load soft carrier and later a backpack carrier. 

Thanks all for the advice and equally for the sympathy.

I'm caught in this weird world where I flit between my usual review-obsessive cost-benefit analysis at one end and "it's a pram and the kid might just hate it for no reason so what's the point?" at the other.

I've been offered a Mountain Buggy Terrain second hand for £200, which is looking tempting and even more so in light of your replies. I think you can get adaptors for clipping on an infant car seat and a smaller pair of wheels which I'll ask are applied before showing it to my other half.

Regarding all terrain: most of them face forward which I don’t like - I wanted to see the babies face and visa versa. Buggies for toddlers - lot older so doesn’t matter as much. 

I ended up getting a Mountain Buggy Duo second hand when my two were young. The build quality is excellent. New they are £££, but they're a good second hand buy. All the fabric bits come off for washing. 

Edit to say they they also have a wide range of spares available so they can go on forever. 

We went second hand for both of ours as took the view they were bonkers expensive new. Regarding on road/offroad.....most will handle a canal towpath without too much hassle. Friends who do running offroad have tended to buy a cheap/old/simple one specifically for this activity on the basis the child doesn't spend much time in it.

If your thinking of adding a second child at any point might be worth considering this (i.e. Phil and Teds stuff you can add another seat to). On a similar note car seats that cover stage 1 - 3 save a lot of cash in the long term.

The point about transfer into car is a good one......noting you can often get adaptors so you can put the car seat on the 'chassis' of the travel system.

.....reading this makes me remember how much room they use up & the space created on the day when we sold our final one a few years ago.

Get an umbrella folding pram for <£100 for around town, on the buses etc

Get a non steering light weight three basic wheeler with bike wheels for off road - the latter you can probably get 2nd hand.

Fancy prams do the same but with added conspicuous consumption and significantly less conveniece.

An umbrella folding pram will wear out roughly at a rate of one/pram per 1.5 children but it doesn't require an SUV to put in the car, can be lifted with one hand, folds on the bus/plane/train and goes anywhere urban.

A three wheeler goes anywhere, is easy to lift over fences and gates. Steering doesn't matter (and is a PITA off road), the simplest "kite" like designs last and get past on (like bike trailers).  They fold up nicely but still require space for the big wheels.

Lying down is quite handy, a lid / cover is very handy, handles that allow you to dangle plastic bags of shopping are very useful.

If you drive - try whatever you get in your car first.  Huge numbers of people miss this out and end up "having" to get a new car to accommodate their fancy new megabucks luxury pram because it doesn't fold up. Try it all out with a sack of spuds under one arm. If you can't fold it and stick it in the car while holding the sack of spuds at the same time you shouldn't buy it.

Remember you need to fold, carry and store the bloody thing.  Stuff that makes this easier is worth 10x more than fancy chrome decals.

We had a Quinny (older version of this) which enables you to have them forward or backward facing....noting as they get old they want to look out/point stuff (usually pigeons) out to you!

https://www.quinny.com/strollers-buggy/buzz-xtra/

I don't mean to carp on about this Bugaboo. The only reason we have it is because it's what our relatives had to pass on to us, and I'm sure lots of other prams do the same. But...

You can have the baby facing forwards or backwards. When they're tiny they like to see you and when they're older they like to look out at what's going on around them.

You can adapt it to be either for lying flat (newborn) or sitting up.

You can make it semi off-road by locking the small wheels and flipping the bars so the big wheels are at the front.

You can get adaptors that allow certain car seats to slot on top. But car seats are a whole new thread...

There's a temptation to think, "oh we're outdoorsy people, we'll be taking them up Everest so we'd best get the all-terrain thing". I bet the cold reality is that the pram spends 99% of its life in urban settings though (busy shops/crowded restaurants/busy trains), or even paths and green spaces that a normal pram can handle fine. I wouldn't throw away the maneuverability so that you can handle the odd patch of gravel.

Oh go on, just one point about car seats. We bought a really expensive thing before the sprog was born. It was supposed to be the sort of thing that they can grow into and will do them right up until they can sit in the car normally. Cost effective, I thought. It turned out to be terrible for newborns - to the point of being really unsafe, I thought. I took it back to the shop and, as a stop gap, bought the cheapest baby seat they had and never looked back. In my opinion the single greatest feature that a car seat can have is being lightweight, which makes lugging it in and out of the car so much easier. As soon as you go premium you'll see the weight rocket up as they build it out of chunkier plastic and add bells and whistles that you don't really need.

Like others have said, defo go second hand, though do some careful research first to work out what you want.

We are just finishing the pram owning phase, we bought our main pram second hand and in good nick for about £200 (retails at about £1k), we have now just cleaned it up / serviced and sold on for £150. Basically a £50 loan for several years use of a pram, and much better from an environmental / landfill perspective. We've taken this approach with most big ticket items and I think it's the way to go.

In terms of pram, I run a lot so we got a running buggy (Out n about Nipper Sport V4) which we now use for everything, it's great for running, tramping over fields, walking to the shops etc and fine from a couple of months old I'd say (have known others use the same one from newborn but I think that's pushing it a bit). You may want different things from your pram but for what we wanted, it's been ideal. 

P.s. Congrats!! 

I'd recommend the out n about nipper 360, 3 wheels, off road, front wheel fixable so fine for running ( for all but the most hardcore pushchair runners). V2 onwards can be set up as travel systems (maxi Cosi and another brand). UK brand and all spare parts available plus full servicing, so great if you can pick one up second hand. Lie flat so suitable from birth when used with newborn insert. I used to fit ours into the boot of my fiesta (on its side with parcel shelf removed).

Also suggest getting hold of a cheap umbrella fold pushchair for when car space is at a premium and also good for toddlers, ours regularly gets abandoned on the mountainside near us when it can't go any further. We were given a chicco London which lies flat, so is suitable from birth. It was immaculate condition when we were given it, it is battered now over 3 years later!

Thanks!

I’d second (or third) out n about nipper.  Even new its much less expensive than a second hand mountain buggy which by all accounts are terrible.  
 
It’s a running buggy and good off road but you can use it for everything.  Only downside is that I don’t think it’s great for babies up to about 3 months.

Don't know where you're based, but I've got a fully-specced Bugaboo Chameleon 3 for sale - suitable from birth.

Just noticed - Bristol, so might be a bit far.

Uppababy also worth a look.

+ 1 for this, my kids are older now but for what it’s worth, I’ll offer the following advice,

car seat attachment, you will mainly use this for the first few months, do not buy the pram base thing, they are massive, weigh a ton and are not practical in any situation. The pushchair part is ok but as soon as mine were old enough we used a foldable buggy, I think we paid about £30 for it (given it was 14 years ago). they are light, collapse down to nothing which is great for travel and holidays, 

the upshot was that the £900 we paid for a “travel System” (what a name for a baby buggy 😂). Was a complete waste as the £30 buggy was used for far longer and was far more practical. 

I second this. 

My sister went through every possible combination of prams/buggies and the best one by far was the out n about nipper.  We ended up getting a second hand iCandy Peach before we had realised this and I now wish we had a out n about nipper. 

Our eldest (just under 2 years) is now growing out of the Icandy and he would be still have room to grow if we had bought an out n about nipper and would do until he was nearly 5.  I have heard there not great for new born babies but for the first 3-4 months we mostly used a baby Bjorn front carrier and then when to heavy for this (about 9-10 months old) we bought a little life rucksack carrier.

When we were expecting our first, I was shocked at how much you could spend on a pram/travel system (over a £1000 is not uncommon).  Most of them are designed to last but are only used for a fraction of their life so what ever you chose second hand is definitely you friend here.  

Lots of good advice already and would echo what others have said.  The early stages bit goes fairly quickly so being able to drop adaptors onto the chassis to take a car seat is great.  We had a Phil & Teds double (sport?) for number 1 and 2 which was great to use and really well made - even with the second removable seat on the back it was a doddle to fold although quite space hungry in the boot.  Also the proper tyres were much nicer for wheeling on pavements and footpaths - the smaller solid wheels on others can be a bit harsh.

I would check the folded dimensions if you use a car regularly as they vary hugely and can fill even a decent sized boot.  The other thing is check the width of your front door and hallway as we struggled in our old Victorian terrace and I skinned knuckles most weeks!  

Baby carriers are another minefield but I recommend the LittleLife carriers once they're a bit older +9mths - our youngest is almost 2 and I am still happy(ish) walking for an hour or two with him in the back.

Best of luck and enjoy the next phase - it's absolute carnage but in hindsight goes pretty quickly (the weeks go fast but the hours go slowly!)

As the once proud owner of one of the very first 'modern' off-roaders just something with big enough  wheels and adequate storage would probably do 

We had a travel system (an oyster I think).  It cost a fortune second hand, has about a thousand parts, and is absolutely useless.   
 

I then borrowed my friends’s nipper when my daughter was old enough to go for a run and immediately realised it would have covered all bases from day one.  Tried to find a second hand one but couldn’t but even new it was better than all the other alternatives second hand.

I'm a fan of Bob's, we've had two, one for a single, one for twins. Bought second hand last time around.

Before they can sit up we just had a car seat carrier frame and then an umbrella style one. But the Bob's are awesome for going off in rougher terrain and just lasting well.

We've ran 100's of miles with our various Bobs so well got the miles out of them.

Well it’s been a while (eldest turns 18 tomorrow) but here’s what I found.

Fixed wheels are great for off-road, bumpy tracks, broken pavement.  Swivel ones are good for smooth stuff.

Newborns need to be flat/well supported but the majority of your pushchair using days will be after they can sit up.

Second hand is absolutely fine - your baby doesn’t care.

Dont bit loads of accessories- some of them will never make it out of the wrappers. See what you need, then buy it if you can’t manage without.

As others have said , check you can fold and lift it into the car, up steps if necessary and through any doors - I got my pushchair wedged in the doorway of the post-office in my very brief foray into double-buggy territory! 

Dont discount the wonderful world of slings and babywearing, especially if you start with s colicky, hard to settle baby.  

Good luck and congratulations

I haven’t read the whole thread so apologies in advance if I’m repeating what’s been said already.

I too did a ton of research as my mum offered to pay for a buggie and I didn’t want to take the Mickey by picking the Bentley of buggies. . 
 

We decided on a “do it all buggie”  from ICandy that took a baby seat( with adaptors), lay flat facing you, then upright facing you. Once said darling child was older it could be configured to face forwards. It was I think 6kg and folded small enough to easily fit into a hatchback boot. There was enough storage and the hood folded fully down for sleeping. We bought a generic clip on parasol for sunny days and a winter sleeping pod thing. 
The only criticism I’d have is that the wheels were a bit small for off road but otherwise it was brilliant and well worth the money someone else spent on it. 
 

Outnabout nipper stroller did us for two kids. It must have done 1000s of miles, £300 new, sold after 4 or 5 years for £100. Faultless, never broke, seconds to pop up, easily lift over stiles, fly net, sunscreen, all the usual stuff etc.. 

I vaguely recall that when the seat was fully lowered, we bought some foam insert that went it to make it more new born friendly. It was a good 8 or 9 years ago though. 

My wisdom is, NEVER buy a new pushchair. Do the following, in this order, 1. Try to get a used one from friends, family, people you know - keep asking around. 2. Buy secondhand, but keep on the cheaper side, smaller side, lighter side 

Good luck and hope everything goes well for you 

My youngest is 15 so I'm a bit out of practice on this stuff, but we had a second hand old fashioned style pram for the early weeks, then a cheap Maclaren type folding stroller that we used from when they were about 3 or 4 months old. Both of mine had reflux so wanted to be upright as much as possible, in fact I can't remember my youngest ever using the pram, so I'm very glad we got that second hand. Instead he spent all his time being worn by me or my husband in a sling. Using slings was much easier than using an all-terrain push chair would have been even just on walks in our local countryside. And a small folding stroller will fit in the car much easier than something fancier (our main car has always been a super-mini).

If you want to disappear down another rabbit hole of gear addiction, slings are the way to go. Best thing to do is see if there is a Sling Library locally where you can try some out when restrictions ease.

Don't buy new, we spent a small fortune on a quinny buzz with all the various attachments, some never even made it out of the box.

Couldn't give the bloody thing away, despite two takers who returned it. Nothing wrong with it and in as new condition. Ended up throwing the lot in the bin.

I think there is a stigma with second hand baby gear, even if unused. 

If you can find an NCT sale. They may hold one before July. Great for 2nd hand stuff. It is a bit like the new year sales tho. Take boxing gloves. 

Big wheels are a must. Those small rattly ones like castors won't get you down the wobbly pavements of a high street let alone off road. 

Out and about nipper was what we finally ended with via 2 others which were garbage. It was far superior and tbh doesn't take up much more space. 

I can see the benefit of a cot bed/removable seat that goes in the car. 

The real question is "is my car big enough?"

Not only for pram but for the system clip in seats too. Many cars you can't get baby in the back and enough leg room for the front passenger. 

Also worth thinking ahead - do you intend to have a second child?  If so, what are you going to do when both in prams?

Years ago now but we ended up with a Phil & Teds thing which took both kids and was great as pram for both / when one was in pram and one would hop on & off according to energy and as a wheelbarrow for the junk you carry around with kids.  We gave it to the daughter of a friend and it is still going.

Bigger wheels aren't just about offroad - helps with kerbs, lumpy pavements, steps into houses and shops.

You can also configure it as more like a sack trolley on the bigger wheels, which is great for towing it across sand.

Bugaboo also do a set of all-terrain wheels to swap out the front ones - we've got them for our Bugaboo, but they don't swivel, so steering gets compromised.

You have my sympathy and congratulations. I was hoping we'd just inherit one as we have with most of our other baby junk but alas no, I had to engage with the pushchair market too.

We opted for a 'travel system' at the cheaper end of the market, about £400 IIRC which was a wounder for me as I'm inclined to a bargain. The kit contained: car seat and base (no swivel), adaptors to fit car seat to pram/chair base, pram basket that converts to pushchair seat, 4-wheel wheeled base + lots of surplus bits. I can get you the make/model if you want. It has quirks but generally I think it's worked out well.

We rarely put the car seat on the wheels, mostly because it's hard to get out of the car (the car's fault, the back seats are cramped despite it being otherwise huge). Basically it just lives in the car.

The wheels at the back are ~12", at the front 5" free castoring on semi-trailing suspension (we'll get to why that matters). Off road in a park (1-2" gravel, roots etc) it's fine, you look where you're going and avoid the biggest bumps. On-road the wheels are fine and the adjustable height handle is nice, I have a stiff back and getting it set up right helps. That said, as you raise the handle it also moves froward toward the rear axle line and the steering gets trickier/weirder, it's manageable.

The buggy has shoulder, waist and crotch straps, easy enough to use. The car seat omits the waist straps which seems odd but I guess they know what they're doing. Both seat basket bits fit both ways round which helps keep little one quiet by facing her whichever way her mood dictates.

Now to the front wheels: mildly off road they cope as you go slow. The problem I find is getting up onto and sometimes down off dropped curbs where there's a little gutter, especially when approached at an angle (not 90deg). Being small they tend to catch on even small edges, castor to line up perpendicular to the curb, the suspension suddenly and fully compresses and the whole lot jams solid. A couple of times I've been thrown completely off balance and toppled over only just keeping the buggy upright. For this reason you certainly can't jog with it (forbidden in the instructions anyway).

I suspect the problem is common to most buggys with smaller castoring front wheels though I suspect three wheelers would do it to a lesser degree, they have rounder section front tyres and the wheel is often a bit bigger.

If you want to run then get one made for it but it will be big and annoying for normal use so you'll probably end up with two.

You may not need actually a pram/pushchair initially, when they're very little carrying them is no bother but the basket can be handy as a safe place to put them down.

Buy a cup holder and a muff for the handles, I know it's soft but free warm hands are worth it, you'll be getting plenty of use out of it over the winter.

If you can resist the sense of urgency and getting set on a particular model there are plenty available second hand. In my case a placated wife who wants things done yesterday once the idea hits was worth more than the price difference, one less thing to worry about.

jk

No No No!

If you don't buy everything new it means you don't love your baby.

NOTHING is too good for the little wonder.

NO expense should be spared if you are a good parent.

Demonstrate YOUR above superior caring by spending more than the Joneses.

I didn't realise my anxiety had its own UKC account.

Agree with a lot of what you've said, but have to say I disagree with this bit. We had several prams, and found that the running buggy served all purposes better than any of the others so that's our only one now. I'd say that's true from about 2/3 months old, and like others say, slings are great for the early days.

The running spec (light, smooth running, big wheels etc.) meant that it was by far the nicest just to go to the shop or push round the park. It packs smaller than the others (icandys) so is better to store or put in the car. Couldn't recommend it highly enough as a single pram to do it all. 

I didn't. I remember walking into the baby department of John Lewis just before the birth of Firstborn and being confronted with a wall of packs of disposable nappies. 3-5Kgs, 4-7Kgs, 6-9Kgs etc. At first I thought that was their capacity.

Anyway, my only advice is make sure it collapses easily using the minimum number of limbs and that it fits into your car.

Good luck.

I’m sure every parent has experience of a newborn poo/exploding nappy scenario where the volume of poo appears to be greater than the volume of the baby.

The number of pushchairs required is n+1?

To the OP, I have no experience in this area but congratulations! I believe there is more to come; car seats ...

The mind boggles.

The pram, the baby, the mum or me?

Thanks