UKH

You f# King idiot, you stupid person, you f+cking stupid arse. 

Id love to see you say that to tyson.

Surely it's down to the person who's face it is. 

Let me guess, you've just woken up after a massive bender with some ill judged artwork? Don't be so hard on yourself.

There's face tattoos and there's face tattoos.

I'm not a fan of any but a guy I once worked with briefly had "GBH" tattooed on his which seemed like a spectacularly bad way to impress people and improve your life chances.

As long as they don't want it removing in years to come courtesy of my NHS contributions.

There was a guy in Leeds with “Headbanger Henry” tattooed on his forehead (must have been late 80's or early 90's).

As Henry had decided on a career as a petty criminal it wasn't really the smartest decision.

Yes. I've always thought that facial tattoos must be very helpful to the police for identification purposes.

Arse tattoos as well...?

Must be stressful in life to get so upset about things that have no impact on you.

Less of a problem than drinking or smoking, even per person.

Facial tattoos are one of the best predictors of suicide attempts. I don't have the exact numbers at hand and my information would be a bit out of date, anyway as I read it in the context of Mike Tyson get his, but the fraction of people in the US at least attempting to kill themselves within a couple of years after getting a facial tattoo was something like 30%.

To me, getting a facial tattoo should therefore be treated as an alarm signal for massive, underlying psychological or psychiatric problems, and a decision to remove it deserves every support by our health systems!

CB

What does it say, Al? And what have you got on your arse?

'Arse antlers' seem popular these days.

Please don't call me Al. 

Apologies, and no problem.

Now - about that arse tattoo.

Yes.

and a decision to remove it deserves every support by our health systems!

Not so sure. 

😁 I have no tattoos, I'm not that stupid. 

WOW! 

I am that stupid, or I was 30 odd years ago. Kind of regret them and kind of don't as they're a powerful reminder of times, places and a mind set that's long gone.

Coincidentally, my 15 year old daughter asked me today if I'd be OK with her getting a tattoo when she's old enough. My reply was "only if you've survived a holocaust".

I was impressed that straight off she both understood the reference and pulled me up on my insensitive bad taste. 

W tattooed on each buttock and the O in between?

What about Maoris and such like?

If it was an “H” a la Rimmer from Red Dwarf I’d let them off.

Seen a girl with "Spit First" tattooed there.

As for face tatts, not for me, but I have no problem with them, it's just another bit of skin. 

Oh dear, there goes my IQ score. But I have to say, most of the people I know who sport a bit of body art are dead smart. Always nice to see a bit of Latin or Greek in a discreet location if you've had the benefit of a decent education.

Is this a revisionist rewrite of a Paul Simon 1986 hit single? 

It becomes even better when they've done a selfie in a mirror... 

Makes me stupid.  Makes my wife stupid too.  Thanks.

Symfwnw apolytws

Arse tattoos are in my opinion amazingly painful.

Face tattoo's, not for me thank you but each to their own. 

Each to their own but comes with the understanding that making choices like that that can lead to difficulties in the future and perhaps limit the options you have later in life.

It shouldn't though should it? 

I'll put my hands up and say that I might have a negative initial reaction on meeting someone with face tattoos but that's my fault, not theirs and my problem to deal with, not theirs.

None of us are without prejudice, the trick is to recognise yours and work to reduce them.

It's about as daft as climbing up a rock and falling off, why do that when it's safer not to...?

From what I gather (last time I came across it), the people who frequent the comment forum of the Daily Mail think similar to the above, and consider it a waste of other people's money and safety to extricate and look after injured climbers.

Funnily enough that was my first thought about that comment. People do all sorts of regrettable/daft/dangerous things and it's often the NHS that scoops up the pieces. I'm quite content that 'my NHS contributions' go towards that.

One of the (many) nice things of living in NZ is re-examining my cultural prejudices against tattoos in general, and facial in particular, challenged. 
Now I try to think: if you want them, more power to your elbow. It probably helps that people are less pigeon-holed for having one here.

What if the facial tattoo is a record of committing a murder (like the tear drop)? 

The tattoo isn't the problem there is it? I'd be concerned about the person being a murderer, not that they had a tattoo!

Some actually pretty good ones here. 

And some not so.... 

https://www.boredpanda.com/funny-worst-tattoo-fails/?utm_source=google&...

Not going to rehash the old "but society should treat your climbing accident " argument....

Good then that it is not you who gets to decide!

CB

I'm not so sure.  

This guy's rocking the look.

Your Daily Mail jibe received and noted. 

I am similarly nettled by seeing crowds of smokers standing in their pyjamas in hospital car parks.

Being overweight myself and having a few climbs under my belt ( when it was smaller) I am not surprisingly more sympathetic at NHS treatment for those categories. 

If it really is a precursor for serious mental illness and suicide attempts then one obvious course of action would be for tattoo parlours to work with local mental health groups and pass on information about people who had asked for facial tattoos or recently had them done. Or at the very  least have Samaritans literature or similar mental health stuff scattered about the premises.

CB's comment has made me think twice about my comment regarding their removal. I wonder if it has changed anyone's opinions about having them done in the first place.

Tattoos can undoubtedly be beautiful. My problem with them (not a problem with the tattoos exactly) is that it is all just another fashion craze. People who think they are being just a teeny bit dangerous..rebellious...stamping their individuality...are really just (for the most part) behaving like sheep. It is just another piece of proof that humans yearn to be part of a herd. There are of course the exceptions.

The suicides of people I don't know have very little impact on me, but having read CB 294 's post about facial tattoos often being a sign of serious mental health issues then I will feel a little bit sadder every time I see a person wearing one. 

I think it is a  sign of humanity to be upset at things which have no impact on oneself.

Edit: I can't find much reading to support the facial tattoo/suicide link but as regards general mortality it seems the tattooed persons die earlier in general so I suppose I should extend my sympathies to anyone I see wearing ink.

Even if there is a correlation between facial tattoos and mental illness that doesn't mean you need to feel sad every time you see one because everyone has a different story, it could just as easily be something empowering or positive for that person. 

Totally agree that on a personal level you can and should work to reduce your prejudices. 

But the onus is on the other side of the argument too. If you chose to do something slightly outside the norms of the society you live in then fine but don't moan about any consequences. 

Totally agree that on a personal level you can and should work to reduce your prejudices. 

But the onus is on the other side of the argument too. If you chose to do something slightly outside the norms of the society you live in then fine but don't moan about any consequences. 

Hmmm…. How far would your non-pigeon holing stretch if your daughter turned up for Sunday dinner with this fine specimen on her arm?😂

For me the big problem is that they see the murder as something to be celebrated with a tattoo.

I'd never heard of this so I went and googled it and it seems a teardrop tattoo can mean all manner of things.

And no, I'm still more worried by the murder than the tattoo!

The trouble with the opening of this thread and some of the commentary that followed is the generalisation. It's probably reasonable to question the mental state or motivations of someone with an ill considered or deliberately offensive tattoo, what isn't reasonable is to leap from that to the conclusion that anyone with one on their face is a f*cking idiot..

I’m not sure that the fact he decided to tattoo his face is what concerns me most about that picture! If anything his choice of location usefully saves some time. I’d also be rather concerned about the sudden arrival of a daughter of dating age! 😮

I have seen one of those and the owner was crystal clear, although carefully talking around the issue to avoid self incrimination, that this was the meaning and he described the difficulty he had in finding someone to do the tattoo. Unfortunately I believe it was true and he was somewhere in the top 10 unpredictably dangerous individuals I've chatted with. I sincerely hope he is no longer at liberty. I'm not saying it is at all common, but I am saying it does exist in real life.

It's one of those things where what one applies to oneself isn't what should be applied to others, too. I've said to myself 'Don't f*ck about, Tim' a number of times towards making progress, but I'd be harsh to say that to somebody else, and I wouldn't accept it from another person, unless they're old friends or family and they have a point (when they've been blunt without swearing, they generally have had a point).

So I'd put it down to myself to think about the consequences of making myself stand outside of the norms of society, but I'd not be thinking 'Well it's your fault' if somebody doesn't like how people treat them because they look different, because I'd see myself as being narrow minded.  If the truth that it's a person's character which counts, applies to not being racist, I don't see why that shouldn't apply to people with those tribal earrings, tattoos, street/'roadman' fashion, and what have you. Even though race can't be changed, and appearance can be, it's still ultimately down to a person's character, which fashion is a fallible guide for.

I've had it in the other direction, in being a fairly conventional person in my clothing, and noticing people more alternatively dressed weighing me up and deciding the don't vibe with me (seemingly), while having friends among them who'll they see as being more like them. I'll probably agree on a lot of things, I just prefer to blend in more...

I don't think extreme examples like that really have much to tell us. It's probably fair to say that most people would feel uncomfortable at the very least with them and they're so rare that most of us are unlikely to encounter them.

How would you feel if son or daughter turned up with someone with a tattoo like the one below? And there is of course a whole spectrum in between.

I actually like a well executed tattoo, but have to agree it's now just a fashion statement: derivative 'tribal' tattoos, chinese characters, egyptian heiroglyphs - every man and his dog seems to have them.

Each to their own, but having ENGLAND stencilled on your beer belly, a flag waving bulldog on your noodle-like biceps or a flower on a thigh that resembles something seen rotating in a kebab shop just makes me sadly shake my head.

Which makes the facial tattoo something to be applauded. Good hint of who to avoid just like nazi boy below.

If a random benign lump hadn't scared me, I might not have quit smoking like/as young as I did (age 18), they're possibly nettled as well, in some part of their psyche while standing outside.

it was meant to be a humorous and extreme example, I rather thought the big yellow laughing 😂 might have tipped you off?

Fine! I’m tattooed, my daughter’s Godfather is mostly ink from the chin down, when they were little a favourite pastime was colouring in the designs on his arms with felt tip, I’m enormously honoured that he’s asked me to be his best man.

Tattoos don’t bother me. Swastikas do!😂

I know that, your post was just the starting point for my musings which is why I clicked reply. 

When I was very young, in the late 60's, my brother and I saw a skinhead walking though a shopping centre.  Shin-high, cherry red DMs, check shirt, braces, and a tattoo on his forehead.  It was home-made.

It said 'ENGLAD'

He had done it himself in the mirror.  You could tell because all the letters were backwards.

Even at the age of 6 or 7 we realised that laughing and pointing would not be a good life choice, so we studied our knees until falling about was deemed safe.  As a guess, the events of 1966 had overcome him....

You are a very tolerant and benevolent person, Timmd, all credit to you for that.

Perhaps you could find it in you to cut Daily Mail readers some slack?

Comedian Kevin Bridges described a steroid pumped guy in a gym with a tattoo which read “Only God can judge me,” to which he thought, “I’m standing right here judging you, ya big f**kin’ bellend.”

Theres a guy on a construction site where I am working right now with “Strength Honour Respect” on his neck. I admit to immediately making a prejudiced assessment of his intelligence. Turns out I was overly generous.

I have a female friend who is heavily tattooed and looks fantastic.

I’m certain that someone on here has his cock tattooed, can’t recall who. Ouch.

Was he called Ludo, came from Llandudno?

That's me. I got "Llanfair­pwllgwyngyll­gogery­chwyrn­drobwll­llan­tysilio­gogo­goch" tattooed on it after a climbing trip to Anglesey once.

I would take the tattoo to mean a complete lack of remorse maybe even pride in the notoriety which would (in my biased eyes) make the owner of said tattoo a violent recidivist, until proven otherwise.

Seems reasonable but as I said upthread I'm not sure extreme examples like that really tell us much about people with tattoos in general.

I find all tattoos aesthetically repugnant. Each to their own I suppose.

Living near a couple of halfway houses I see a surprising number of extensive head and face tattoos around me, obviously the rough prison sort not the hipster/fashion kind. I don't know whether they pose a significant additional barrier to a new normal life compared to all the other baggage ex-cons carry but they're a strikingly visible reminder of it.

jk

Not your body, not your business

I'm with you on this. However, our aesthetic sense is hugely cultural, and in the culture of the age in which you and I grew up, tattoos were largely the preserve of Popeye and low-life scum, so I'm guessing that's clouded our vision considerably. Later on, there was a big craze for Celtic armband tattoos, which were much less objectionable (but in my view pretty pointless). It's only in the last decade or so that they've really become genuinely mainstream, and adopted by a wider cross-section of people with, presumably, a wider range of aesthetic preference. Still have yet to see one I like, though.

Coming back from a gig with a mate, back in the 80's. We jumped on the last train, which was pretty much empty. A skinhead came in, and out of all the empty seats sat opposite us and proceeded to stare out my mate. After a few uncomfortable minutes, my mate recognised him as someone he was at school with. After the tension broke we laughed and chatted with him. He showed us a tattoo saying 'gemorimo'. When my mate asked what that means, he said 'its what Indians say, when they go into battle". I didn't say anything.

Well, as it was a midlife crisis decision, it was either tattoo or buying a porsche, and I couldn't afford a porsche.  Plus I'd look like a bit of a knob driving one (not that I don't look like one anyway).  Anyhoos, got some grass to masticate.  (Talking of grass...)

I didn't cast their view on climbers in a particular light, I just paraphrased it.

Edit: You should check out some of the comments when people need rescuing during the winter. I was being truthful...

Tattoos in general don't bother me (I don't have any because it would be guilding the lily, obvs), but there are some which would bother me if saw them on stranger sitting next to me on the train.

your profile states; "Formerly grumpy old man"

might want to update that.

Tattoos are so common these days I can't imagine a significant proportion of people think they're being rebellious by getting one. There's definitely a copycat motivation in a lot of cases but hey that's humans for you. We all put pictures up on our walls at home and I'm pretty sure we didn't each come up with that idea independently.

I know probably 5 or 6 people with facial tattoos. They're all tattooists themselves, are pretty intelligent for the most part and are considerably richer than me.

In general, stigmas for how people visibly present themselves are pretty backwards I find and almost always misplaced so as to be completely useless. 

Yes, I don't know whether I have developed my repugnance for them or even whether I could be taught to like some of them. Possibly a bit like some music genres I find horrible.

I've seen some that would be fine on paper, but most would still be pretty unpalatable not on a body - I suppose the style goes with the mentality of people who get them. I suppose part of what repulses me is actually the self-defacing aspect of it.

My mum has had her face tattooed. She has advanced ataxia, she cannot control her limbs much anymore so putting on make up is completely impossible ( like pretty much everything else she used to be able to do before it struck her down) . She has had eye liner, and some lip colour tattooed so she looks a little bit nicer.

I won't bother mentioning your opinions to her.

I'm guessing face tattoos for most could be viewed as self harming?

My old headteacher had every single part of his body tattooed apart from his head and face. He also got ‘sacked’ because his son found a box of spanking magazines, one of which contained a double spread of my headteacher in full spanking gear which he then sold to a newspaper!  

I like the rose, but that close to the ear is only borderline facial anyway.

What I find much more worrying is the "Trust the process!" tattoo on the forearm! WTF is that about? Announcing your fatalism to the world?

CB

Didn't know you could tattoo such small fonts.

CB

Maybe it's the Asian equivalent to Brits who have cuneiform characters that they think mean “Strength and Courage” tattooed on their arm, but are probably something random from a takeaway menu?

I think most of us feel we're decorating rather than defacing.

I haven't had any legibility complaints yet. (Even from your wife - and she normally needs reading glasses.)

Well this is awkward.

It's a common sporting mantra. I imagine there might be climbers who've muttered it to themselves during a gruelling protracted redpoint. Optimistic rather than fatalistic. 

wow! Your body must be an inviolable temple 

Isn't the issue that it's other people (namely, the people driving the tattoo gun) who are doing the decorating, rather than yourself?

As an onlooker, it looks like a defacement, invariably.

Although with Cuneiform there arent many who could tell you that it was done wrong. Probably not that many tattoo artists who could do it at the traditional size either.

I can't really see why that matters. After all, Julius II got a bloke in to paint his ceiling, but most people seem to feel it worked out pretty well.

That would be me, a cartoon weasel gripping the shaft, a Weasel on my weasel if you like. Plus on the side I have "I (a red heart symbol) Swee Dish"  Swee Dish being my best mate who is properly freaked out about it (that was the point). 

I also have 3 lines on my bell end. Long story about a dead mate. I couldn't handle the pain and had to tap out. And no I won't use numbing cream to get it finished, if you can't take the pain you shouldn't get the ink. 

No, not really. I just wouldn't deface it with a naff indelible painting that I would find downright ugly on anybody else.

I feel the same about make-up, but at least that washes off and seems like a misguided attempt to enhance the existing body rather than vandalise it.

How does your missus feel about the Swee dish one? Did you have it before you got together?

Each to their own obviously, but I have never seen a single tattoo that enhances someones looks. 

I hope they stay rich and don't need to sit in front of 3 people in suits on a job interview when they are 50 something.

I used to own a company and we had a policy of not employing anyone with a tattoo visible above the neck or below the cuffs. In 30 years I don't recall interviewing a single person who had visible tattoos that we though was suitable for the job.  We had plenty of people who had tattoos, but they could all be covered when a formal event dictated suits.

My hope would be that the interviewers wouldn't judge someone on their tattoos but this thread suggests that's a forlorn hope.

Really? Damn!

Thank you for that most amusing image on a Tuesday morning.

Yes, lots of employers have stupid policies.

I have seen a great many.  Not that my opinion about someone else's looks actually matters any more than yours does.

We were together for about 15 years before I got it. She just rolled her eyes.

The same as she did when I got a gay pony jizzing a rainbow on my inner bicep taking the piss out of another mate. Photo below. The colour has faded a bit now and all the yellow has dropped out but its still one of my favourites. 

I have a very understanding wife. She knew what I was like before she agreed to marry me and has never tried to change any aspect of me. 

<involuntary shudder>

Many of my clients were older and therefore from an older generation and mindset. I can guarantee that if we turned up sporting facial 'artwork' we would have lost business. Please explain how looking after the interests of my existing employees make a stupid policy?

Did you do any research to determine that or is it based on your own assumptions or  prejudices? Would you have pandered to any other stereotypical older generation prejudices? Piercings? Gender? Race? Sexuality? 

You're right to question MonkeyPuzzle's use of the word stupid though, discriminatory is a better word.

I don't think that employment restrictions on , say, nose piercings are based on age  related prejudices.

Many people find facial tattoos threatening and distressing. Facial tattoos are associated with untrustworthiness and criminality in many cultures. You can argue all you like how wrong and narrow-minded this is but it doesn't stop it from being true. e.g: https://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037%2Fa0034736

If you don't understand this you have a striking lack of understanding of other people. If you do understand this (at some level) you are self-sabotaging and/or enjoy (at some level) threatening or distressing other people. 

So we should pander to other people's groundless prejudices then? Interesting thread to pull, that one.

Piercings....Getting a piercing is a choice.

The others on your list are not.

It may have been better for business but I'm not about to applaud you for pandering to people's prejudices in the tiny amount of cases it would have caused a problem. See DaveHK's reply up-thread.

Edit: Seen your reply to DaveHK. It's still an opinion based in groundless prejudices and the justification of discriminating against people on the basis of prejudice.

I don't think that matters unless you want to get into the reasons for the choice in which case we're back to what I've been arguing for all through this thread which is treating people as individuals rather than using an appearance based heuristic to judge them.

It would have caused problems in more than a tiny amount of cases. I guarantee I would have lost many clients leading to some job losses. 

If someone turned up for an interview wearing a tin hat it's unlikely I would have employed them. Or a clown's outfit. Or dressed as the back half of a panto cow. 

How about someone turns up with just their nose tattooed? Bright red with yellow dots. 

People do not have the time to get to know every individual before carefully assessing if they're a threat, an attention seeking tosser, a tortured soul, or an entirely wonderful human being who likes having facial tattoos. 

Personally I put facial tattoos into the 'be wary of' category until evidence points otherwise. You choose to ink your face, you do not get to choose how others perceive it.

You trying to justify your self-described blanket "policy" with implausible extreme scenarios. Is that how you formulated all your policies?

You might think this supports your point but actually it undermines it. You're presenting specific examples of odd attire etc that would lead you to reject a candidate when what you've been trying to justify is the rejection of anyone with visible tattoos regardless of what they are.

Not really. If you turn up with a tattoo that cannot be covered it was goodbye from us. Just as having a tattoo is the wearers choice, then not employing them is mine. 

It's all about choice. 

​​​​​​And you get to choose how you respond to it, with an open mind, at the very least reserving judgement or with fear/suspicion. The former is harder I'll grant you but it's an effort worth making I think.

​​​​​​Totally agree, prejudice is often a choice. 

Let's focus on the red nose thing. How does that differ from a spiders web or snake wriggling up your neck? 

Implausible scenarios? I did have a meeting once with a guy wearing a tin hat. Not an interview. He came across as quite normal apart from the hat. It was hidden under his cap but he took it off to show me.

My judgement *is* reserved, which is why I put them into the 'be wary' category, not the 'run off screaming' category. If our culture had a long history of facial tattoos, and everyone I knew with a facial tattoo was benevolent, no doubt I'd feel different. But our culture isn't like that, and the only time I see facial tattoos seems to be on crimewatch, so I'll continue being wary (or as you would no doubt categorise it, prejudiced). Enjoy your ink, sorry for staring.

I wouldn't say it's prejudice. I have worked alongside some individuals with face and head tattoos. 

Prejudice would assume I had no experience and therefore based my assumptions on preconceived ideas rather than real life..  

​​​​​​Not at all, prejudice can often be experience based. Like when a negative interaction with one member of a societal group affects how you feel about others from that group.

Outside of the tattoo industry and a few musicians I can't think of anyone I know with facial tattoos that isn't a criminal.

Edit to add. I rented a house to a guy for 2.5 years who wasn't a criminal and was heavily tattooed on his face. He was a chef who played in a metal band.  He was struggling to find someone to rent to him and his Mrs.

Great tenants who never missed a payment. 

True but not applicable to me.

So you had neutral or positive experiences with the facially tattooed people you've worked with? That makes your defence of the company policy seem even stranger.

So you judged people you didn't know on preconceptions gained from other people sharing a physical characteristic?

Well, thanks for confirming it wasn't really your customers' assumed prejudices you were acting on anyway.

Yes we all do that, it was saves us from getting eaten by animals, once upon a time.

I can tell someone who's going to be an arse, and 9 times out of 10 I'm right.

Last weekend some bloke came into our pub and I said to my mates he was going to be trouble, I didn't know him, and they didn't believe me.

Three hours later he's punching a bloke at the bar for looking at him the wrong way and being turfed out be the landlord and others.

Call it intuition if you like, but it rarely let's me down.

Perhaps that's intuition. Perhaps that was caused by you and your mates looking at him strangely and talking about him. Its called the 'observer effect' in physics.

Maybe you just don't remember all the times you got it wrong, they're likely to be far less memorable if they don't end with someone being panelled. 

Yes that'll be it, because even if he saw us (which I doubt), that's what people do isn't it?

I judged people I don't know based on the fact they decided that it would be a good idea to inject ink into their faces. I think I'd do the same with botox.

No, only negative experiences.

Well it's not very often I make predictions like that, so it hard to think they might be lost in the noise of all the others.

While we all like to think we don't prejudge others there's good reason for doing so in some cases.

I'm open to anyone proving me wrong but it's not very often it happens. When people join our club,I can normally guess how long they'll end up staying, too.

Also known as 'confirmation bias'.  A ubiquitous cognitive bias that we all experience, it's just how the human brain works.  But that won't stop plenty of us claiming to be exempt of course.

That said, of course there are also perfectly valid clues you might pick up from an individual's body language as to their likely behaviour in the near future.  I don't think that would be prejudice, but of course it's very easy to extrapolate judgements based on "oo-er, that bloke looks a bit dodgy" into something that becomes prejudice.

It seems very convenient for the Le Sapeur that the prejudices of his company's customers so closely mirror his own.  Lucky really.  I imagine it would be more difficult for him to recruit staff accordingly if the people the customers wouldn't tolerate didn't correlate so neatly with the ones he personally doesn't like the look of.

Good points. I think there can be a 'nervous system response' which isn't quite prejudice or a mental judgement too, though. I've never really 'vibed' with a certain sister in law, and I've gradually learned about her covertly narcissistic qualities, and when feeling like I didn't get a lot of warmth from her, learned later on about her not having a lot of patience with me about a certain aspect of my life. It's entirely none of her business or her place to judge, but that's narcissism for you, she ticks 10/11 character traits to different degrees I've realised, having gone down a psychology rabbit hole on youtube with nobody in mind at the time. I just noticed certain patterns.

It's sometimes very tricky to tell, because I've made assumptions about people and found that I was wrong, too.  It's when somebody makes me feel ill at ease within my own self so I can't settle, that's something worth listening to. I think it's a perception we have from childhood, 'a child-nose', and is worth trying to keep in touch with, like a feeling in your heart and gut, and relates to feeling any love or warmth coming from the other person (or a particular lack of). It's in animals too, they know who they can vibe with when there's a gathering of people, they seem to find the soft person in the group.

I think hippies and alternative people talk about somebody having good energy, which might amount to something similar...

Edit: I guess there can be prejudice involved in whether people have warmth to others or not, too, but vibing on that rather than other things seems like the best approach I've found.

Maybe you could call it luck, if it makes you feel better.

I once missed being covered in acid, when I didn't like the feel of a pipe I was disconnecting and stood on top of the handrail (very dangerous) instead of the  platform I should have been standing on.

As it  turned out I only lost a bit off the end on my nose and a bit of ear. I'd have been something like 1.2m lower if I hadn't listened to my inner voice. I'd never stood on the handrail before, to do the same job.

Unbelievable luck.

I believe you.

Thou shalt not judge a book by its cover.

Thou shalt not judge Lethal Weapon by Danny Glover.

Thankfully I have a more open face, of the kind people are meant to feel is more trustworthy, but it's unfortunate for those who haven't.

You sound like a pretty shallow and intolerant person.  Why not be more concerned with what people stick in their bodies (meat, tobacco, alcohol, sugar, etc) than how they look?  And why do you think they give a stuff what some middle aged bloke thinks of them?

I was simply contributing to the discussion, which was about tattoos, not food. I tolerate and am civil to people with tattoos; I just find the tattoos invariably ugly.

Tattoos and make up just seem to me incredibly shallow; not even skin deep in fact. 

And why do you think I give a stuff about your usual predictable snide non-contribution?

'You can call me Al.'

- P Simon.

Thou shalt not buy Coca Cola products

Thou shalt not buy Nestle products

Ach! Beat me to it.

As it happens, I would like get a tattoo because I'm simply not very cool.

Everyone else can do what they like! 

Agreed, what I don't accept though is that some people want me to think it's great what they've done.

I've seen very few tattoos which have impressed me, I'm not keen on them or piercings (though I have my ear done), a lot of them are really shit.

I liked it when tattoos were a sign of a "bad boy" or woman, you knew what you were dealing with then.

It was, it gives me cold sweats thinking about, which isn't very often thankfully, 35+ years later, it would have hit me mid-body and there was a lot of it, I'd have been in a massive mess, and might not have been able to escape, as it was I had to clamber over a 48" pipe to a platform on the other-side and run to a water hose.

If ever you get acid on you, wipe it off with a cloth first, if you can, before washing with water, it stops a lot of blistering.

On the other point, I'm not sure you need to see people faces to make some judgements about them, body language is a great indicator.

Like you I think I'm pretty open and will often go against my instincts, to see if I was right.

It's weird thing that I've never really thought about much before, but still think "judging" people is a valid and useful thing to do / have. I don't class it as prejudice.

You can really fall down a rabbit hole with that thinking.  To take it one step further, a capability test at an interview is unfairly judging someone, potentially the best most deserving candidate there is, who just happens to be having a bad day. 

A necessary part of the social fabric is the degree to which people are willing to moderate wayward behaviours and fall in with the herd, or at least make it clear that they would be willing to if needs be.  The decision to scribe anything indelibly on your own face is one of the strongest signals that can be sent that the wearer wants to place themselves outside the group. 

It's nice not to judge someone on such a thing.  But it's going against well establish heuristics and ones the wearer probably sought to challenge when they got the tattoo in the first place.

30 years of hurt? Never stopped you dreaming? 

(Sorry mate. Had to be done in light of events football related.)

Edit to say. Love your pony tattoo. Quality! 😁

Gosh that's very generous of you. 

How about people you think are ugly for other reasons?  Do you merely tolerate them too, or do you regard them as your equal, perhaps even as people you might come to regard as your friends?

I dont think you do?

Is that meant to be a question? 

Anyway, yes, I do find all tattoos horrible looking.

TFTFY.........

Obviously being ugly for reasons outside your control is completely different from making the choice to become ugly (in the eye of this beholder).

Answering only about people with tattoos, what I meant was that I would not be unpleasant to someone with tattoos because they have tattoos, and of course they could be a friend. However, I suspect that I am less likely to have a mindset and outlook on life easily compatible with someone who has chosen to have tattoos than someone who hasn't (the same would go for people making many other life choices such as buying a flashy car or being interested in fashion).

For that to be true you would literally,  have had to of seen All tattoos, which is clearly impossible.

So maybe it is just the idea, not the reality you dislike. Which might show a lack of imagination.

I have found all tattoos I have seen ugly. I am sure I would find any tattoo ugly, because it is the idea of, as I see it, of defacing oneself which I find ugly, not necessarily the actual designs.

Not sure what you mean by that. Unless it is precisely what I have just explained.

Yes it is exactly as you have described

Who cares? 

What's your problem?

Ive come across of a couple of murderers (manslaughter) neither have tattoos that I know of.

I also know several people with facial tattoos, teardrops included, none of which are remotely violent.

I'll agree that certain styles of tattoo can be a marker of certain actions, but the current popularism of tattoos means those meanings are getting lost ie an anchor indicated you had sailed across the Atlantic etc.

Personally I prefer my tattoos and piercings to be hidden (mostly), just because they have become fashionable

As for job prospects, that will change, in the early 90's I was refused jobs because of my facial piercings (very tame, eyebrow and nose) . I was young enough and skilled enough, to not give a f*ck. Those places now have numerous pierced and tattooed employees, including myself. 

I've been cogitating since my last point on this thread on *why* people (usually men) with facial tattoos get put into my personal "be wary of" category. I think it's my perception that heavily tattooed, or extremely pierced is a marker for reduced impulse control.

I'm not sure you're "couldn't give a fcuk [about a job]" is going to persuade me I'm wrong.

Confirmation bias is a powerful thing.

Yep.

I didn't mention his (I assume) covering up the tatts and piercing because "they've become fashionable" <eye roll>

Don't understand the reduced impulse control, I take my time over getting tattoos and other modifications sometimes years. 

I do understand people's reservations, certainly older generations, as tattoos were associated with certain lifestyles/choices, but these days not so much. 

It wasn't to persuade you, but more about the mind set of someone who chooses to do these things. In engineering it can be quite conservative, thankfully changing slowly. My CV would get me the interviews but my appearance would sometimes put people off, fine no problem, I'll just go somewhere else. 

The bigger hinderance to my career is being straight edge, not drinking etc and no interest in pubs or football etc. Not that I find it hard to get work at all. 

I don't think that is true.  There is one small study  and it was the other way around.  Of 134 consecutive suicides (a small number) 21% had tattoos of ny sort https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0165032799001366?via...  Which is different from 20 or 30% of peole who have tattoos kill themselves. There are very few good predictors of suicide. The Manchester Self Harm Rule is probably the best- but in general they are all pretty rubbish as predictors- to the extent that NICE says do not used predictive tools. (it has good sensitivity but poor specificity).

You are highly unlikely to get a tattoo removed on the NHS. Of any sort. Tattoos are generally removed with laser treatment. THis is extremely time consuming and the laser equipment itself is in short supply and expensive. They are usually used in clinical practice for the removal of pigmented lesions (biological ones) as well as vascular malformations. 

Green doesn't laser out.

On teardrop tattoos- these have a number of meanings and almost all of them are not to say ' I have killed someone".

In the UK they are known as a 'Borstal tear'- meaning 'I have been to borstal (actually a YOI)'.

Amy Winehouse got one- when her partner went to prison. In the US a tear in the context of prison might mean that you have been raped then 'marked' as the rapists property.

I think I had in mind that somebody might have prejudge regarding who they decide to have warmth towards, but essentially that's down to them in the end, it was more of a pondering on the nature of warmth, whether it's instinctive or slightly more conscious. It 'feels' instinctive.

I'd agree that it's not prejudice to weigh people up and to assess them, it's quite essential to staying well, mentally and psychologically, and what have you.