Eco friendly toilet paper

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 girlymonkey 02 Dec 2021

For the past few years I have bought a bull buy of "who gives a crap". Seems like a good option, plastic free and made from bamboo. This is all good, apparently. However, it ships from China and it's still single use. 

There are other British brands, so no shipping, which use unbleached recycled paper. This seems good, but have plastic wrapping!

Then there is the option which seems a bit weird, but maybe would be fine, of the washable "cheeky wipes". But they obviously get washed, so washing machine energy use. 

I always find when trying to choose the "greenest" option for any product that you are never comparing direct comparisons. Plastic Vs transport emissions Vs washing machine energy use! 

So, wise hive mind of UKC, what's the answer?

4
 Fredt 02 Dec 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

Three seashells!

 Jenny C 02 Dec 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

'bum gun' - little shower head at the side of the loo so you have your very own bidet.

Very popular in Muslim countries, and yes you can get heated ones over here.

1
 Timmd 02 Dec 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

I'm wondering if the net benefit might still be worthwhile even if the recycled British toilet paper is wrapped in plastic?

'Mostly green' is a lot better than a 'Who cares?' approach.

Post edited at 22:37
OP girlymonkey 02 Dec 2021
In reply to Jenny C:

We have quite a small bathroom, is it a separate unit or attached to the toilet? I can't picture how it would work?

 mik82 02 Dec 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

It's basically a small shower head and hose with a trigger that is attached to the wall by the side of the cistern.  Some are plumbed in directly whereas some are fitted to the cistern supply. I've often thought one of these would be the most environmentally friendly option. 

 iskra2000 02 Dec 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

Try BoxRoll, recycled paper from a North Wales mill, manufactured in the Midlands and delivered in a cardboard box. No plastic. We get ours via our veg-box  delivery.

OP girlymonkey 02 Dec 2021
In reply to mik82:

That sounds like it could be a good option in the longer term. It's not going to be immenant though, our bathroom is tiny and all plumbing is inconveniently boxed in, so would be a bigger job. Probably one to add in when we need something else done anyway. Will bear it in mind.

 ripper 03 Dec 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

The Sainsbury's recycled loo roll that I buy has recently switched from plastic to paper wrapping

Post edited at 00:28
In reply to girlymonkey:

The biggest eco problem with bog paper is probably the energy it takes to make it. Paper manufacture uses a lot of energy.

WFH, I have taken to having a morning constitutional before my shower... Sadly, it means I'm not shitting on company time. Well, as I'm WFH, there's no-one checking up on me, so...

In reply to girlymonkey:

The answer is the neck of a well downed goose.

"Afterwards I wiped my tail with a hen, with a cock, with a pullet, with a calf’s skin, with a hare, with a pigeon, with a cormorant, with an attorney’s bag, with a montero, with a coif, with a falconer’s lure. But, to conclude, I say and maintain, that of all torcheculs, arsewisps, bumfodders, tail-napkins, bunghole cleansers, and wipe-breeches, there is none in the world comparable to the neck of a goose, that is well downed, if you hold her head betwixt your legs. And believe me therein upon mine honour, for you will thereby feel in your nockhole a most wonderful pleasure, both in regard of the softness of the said down and of the temporate heat of the goose, which is easily communicated to the bum-gut and the rest of the inwards, in so far as to come even to the regions of the heart and brains. And think not that the felicity of the heroes and demigods in the Elysian fields consisteth either in their asphodel, ambrosia, or nectar, as our old women here used to say; but in this, according to my judgment, that they wipe their tails with the neck of a goose, holding her head betwixt their legs, and such is the opinion of Master John of Scotland, alias Scotus."

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1200/1200-h/1200-h.htm#link2HCH0013

Chapter 1 XIII

 summo 03 Dec 2021
In reply to Timmd:

Lots of things could be wrapped in paper or thin card these days, we have an obsession at being able to see through packaging at what we wish to buy, even if it's largely irrelevant. 

Plastic however does protect goods on long journeys because so little is produced entirely in Europe. 

In reply to girlymonkey:

> There are other British brands, so no shipping, which use unbleached recycled paper. This seems good, but have plastic wrapping!

"Serious tissue" is delivered without plastic packaging. 

In reply to girlymonkey:

Might I suggest a Tersorium or Xylospongium if you like.

Although that might be damaging to reefs in the acquisition of the key ingredient.

;-D 

 The Norris 03 Dec 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

Apologies for the unhelpful sidetrack... what would be ukc's favourite garden plant leaf to wipe with? And are plant leaves flushable?

Perhaps we could ditch the perennial failing veg patches and move to home grown bog roll for the ultimate eco bum cleaning experience!

 ripper 03 Dec 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

A clump of sphagnum moss is both soothing and effective

 Sealwife 03 Dec 2021
In reply to Jenny C:

If you wanted to try out the “bum gun” approach, you could get one of those rubber shower-head mixer things to attach to the taps of your wash-hand basin.

We have a (rarely used) bidet and tbh I find it’s a bit of a hassle as you obviously get quite wet when using it and then have to dry yourself with either loo roll or a towel, so no saving on paper or laundry.  

 Bottom Clinger 03 Dec 2021
In reply to The Norris:

> Apologies for the unhelpful sidetrack... what would be ukc's favourite garden plant leaf to wipe with? And are plant leaves flushable?

NOT rhododendron. I’ve tried. In the outdoors, so not sure how well it flushes. 

 RX-78 03 Dec 2021
In reply to Bottom Clinger:

Nettles obviously, they grow almost anywhere, minimum care required.

 subtle 03 Dec 2021
In reply to The Norris:

> Apologies for the unhelpful sidetrack... what would be ukc's favourite garden plant leaf to wipe with? And are plant leaves flushable?

Dock leafs.

Instead of flushing them put them onto the compost heap, fertiliser for next year.

Removed User 03 Dec 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

Full Japanese toilet with air dyer.

 Jenny C 03 Dec 2021
In reply to Removed User:

> Full Japanese toilet with air dyer.

But what about the extra electricity?

 AllanMac 03 Dec 2021
In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

Goose necks usually come with a hefty bill.

However, duck necks are cheeper and get right into the quack.

 maxsmith 03 Dec 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

We have been using WhoGivesACrap for years...I know it's not perfect in terms of eco-friendly ness but it's far far better than buying the usual supermarket offerings.  Also need to bear in mind that 50% of their profits are donated to clean water/toilet building projects in third-world countries.   As always with 'green' choices it's not a simple equation but it's nice to know what we spend is doing some ethical good as well as being eco.

OP girlymonkey 03 Dec 2021
In reply to ripper:

> A clump of sphagnum moss is both soothing and effective

But sphagnum moss makes peat bogs, which store carbon, so presumably we want to leave that as unharmed as possible?

OP girlymonkey 03 Dec 2021
In reply to maxsmith:

Maybe we need to stop eating, and therefore stop pooing?! Would save emissions on food production too!!

 ripper 03 Dec 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

> But sphagnum moss makes peat bogs, which store carbon, so presumably we want to leave that as unharmed as possible?

Fair point, although I've never used it while going to the bog in a peat bog - only while laying a log in a forest, when there was a handy clump on a rock next to where I'd squatted

 stubbed 03 Dec 2021
In reply to maxsmith:

I'm not so sure that it's far better than supermarket offerings actually (I used to work for a paper company). Its not as absorbant, you use a lot of sheets compared to something like Andrex. The boxes are air freighted I think (?) it doesn't sound great environmentally.

Yes UK paper is often wrapped in plastic but that's because it gets stored in warehouses and it's a damp country. Cardboard packed products will have more waste, whether you see it or not, from getting wet in transit.

1
 maxsmith 03 Dec 2021
In reply to stubbed:

...so what should we be using/what are you using? Fine to shoot down an eco product but please suggest a better alternative. And even if WhoGivesaCrap has the same carbon impact as Andrex, I'd much prefer to give my money to an ethical company rather than an American multinational (Andrex owners Kimberley Clark).  

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OP girlymonkey 03 Dec 2021
In reply to maxsmith:

Well all of this is making me wonder if we should be moving to "cheeky wipes" set up. Washable fabric wipes.

 Robert Durran 03 Dec 2021
In reply to RX-78:

> Nettles obviously, they grow almost anywhere, minimum care required.

I once used some by mistake (mixed in with other vegetation). It was horrific.

In reply to Archmagos_Dominus:

> Might I suggest a Tersorium or Xylospongium if you like.

> Although that might be damaging to reefs in the acquisition of the key ingredient.

> ;-D 

https://www.sallypointer.com/product-page/sponge-on-a-stick

Still available in this modern age .

AD

 jon 03 Dec 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

The humble bidet, beloved of the French, poo-pooed by the Anglo Saxons, is your answer.

 Cobra_Head 03 Dec 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

We tried WhoGives... and I got sick of cold finger surprise!!

We ended up using more of it, so not sure how well it came out on the eco-front.

 Cobra_Head 03 Dec 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

The Turkish toilets usually have a little pressure washer tube at the back, blast the remnants off and a small paper dry off afterwards, you can mange with two to four sheets.

OP girlymonkey 03 Dec 2021
In reply to Cobra_Head:

I have found it perfectly normal? I think there was two types, one a bit more substantial than the other so maybe that is the one we got?

OP girlymonkey 03 Dec 2021
In reply to jon:

Our bathroom is only just big enough to turn around in, no way anyone is fitting a bidet in there!!

 jon 03 Dec 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

Yes sorry, I did understand that, it was a more general comment. One of the gadgets that folk have mentioned that spray water would have the same desired effect.

 Ben Callard 03 Dec 2021
In reply to stubbed:

I would be very, very surprised if WGAC was air freighted. There is absolutely no need, and as air freight often goes on volume as much as weight, it would be prohibitively expensive. 

We've used it for years, and as others have said, it might not be perfect, but it seems better than most alternatives.    

 Jamie Wakeham 03 Dec 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

> I always find when trying to choose the "greenest" option for any product that you are never comparing direct comparisons. Plastic Vs transport emissions Vs washing machine energy use! 

This is the nub of the problem, and it's really hard to make meaningful comparisons.  I tend towards thinking that CO2 is the single most important thing (so for example I drive an EV because I think reducing the CO2 from burning fuel is more important than the implications of lithium mining) but plastic pollution and deforestation are clearly also important.

Without doing any proper calculations: I would guess that washable wipes would not be terribly green, because you'll likely be running an extra hot washing machine cycle every week as a result.  A hot wash will use three or four times as much energy as a regular cycle.

Some sort of handheld water jet to use your existing loo as a bidet is probably the very lowest carbon solution.  You can get one that connects into the cold fill of your loo and install them very easily; slightly less spartan (!) would be to get one that mixes hot and cold from your sink inlets.

As for using paper: I reckon that once you have made sure you are using recycled paper rather than virgin, then you've already made the most significant gains.  Whether you pick WGAC (which is shipped from China, not air freighted - they'd be ridiculously expensive if they went airmail!) or a UK supplier (who plastic wraps but has a smaller transport footprint) is, likely, relatively unimportant.

 Ramblin dave 03 Dec 2021
In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

> As for using paper: I reckon that once you have made sure you are using recycled paper rather than virgin, then you've already made the most significant gains.  Whether you pick WGAC (which is shipped from China, not air freighted - they'd be ridiculously expensive if they went airmail!) or a UK supplier (who plastic wraps but has a smaller transport footprint) is, likely, relatively unimportant.

Yeah, agree with this. I tend to the view that we basically need massive action at a national / international level if we want the next generation to live in a world that even vaguely resembles the one we were born into - it's good to try to be as green as possible on a personal level because it probably helps to strengthen the case for change at a social level if people are already showing willing as individuals, but at the same time it's not worth worrying about some individual-level choice between the imperfect options that are available to you as if it's going to save the planet in itself.

Post edited at 17:17
 Snyggapa 03 Dec 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

We use naked sprout. Bamboo paper, no plastic and no bleach so has a reassuring natural brown colour.

Used to use WGAC but the standard product I kept on putting my fingers through, the premium was good though.

 Toerag 03 Dec 2021
In reply to Snyggapa:

> Used to use WGAC but the standard product I kept on putting my fingers through, the premium was good though.

I was going to say this - we've moved to the premium version because the standard one is rubbish.

Re: Cheeky wipes - we had them for our kids when they were in nappies. The cotton/bamboo ones were by far the best for initial poomageddon wiping as they're quite rough, and we'd use a clean one to dry, changing it once a day. The soft microfibre ones get used for face wiping at bathtime, the dining table, and picnics (taken damp in a small tupperware box).  Both sorts last well beyond their initial baby use period. The cotton/bamboo ones benefit from being tumble-dried as line dried ones are very hard and stiff.

 Snyggapa 03 Dec 2021
In reply to Toerag:

Yes, we did the washable nappy thing a few years ago and have a load of cloth 'wet wipes' still being used in the kitchen, or face wipes. Best not to over-think what they have previously been used for 🐸

In reply to girlymonkey:

BTW, bog paper manufacture is right at the end of the paper recycling chain. The fibres are too short to make anything higher quality, so the fact that they are flushed isn't a problem.

A mate of mine works for the Confederation of Paper Industries (the industry representative body), and I learn more about paper than I really want to know... Funnily enough, he always has a huge supply of bog paper; I wonder where he gets it from...

Post edited at 22:16
 hokkyokusei 03 Dec 2021
In reply to ripper:

> A clump of sphagnum moss is both soothing and effective

Can confirm.

 Arms Cliff 03 Dec 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

Re: the shipping side of things, I was watching a thing about meat recently and they were discussing how the large containerised transport is so efficient, it’s a v small percentage of the travel carbon costs compared to the road freight in the receiving country, so in terms of energy usage there may not be as large a difference as you might think with something produced in the UK. 

 Dax H 04 Dec 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

> Maybe we need to stop eating, and therefore stop pooing?! Would save emissions on food production too!!

This is the only way forward. Reduces food energy use, reduced paper use and the big one. Reduced water treatment need.

The energy that goes in to waste water treatment to meet the environmental standards is insane.

Last week I quoted to replace the air Blowers at a large waste water works, the most efficient machines available come out at 2.4 mega watt per hour running 8760 hours per year. That's just the Blowers, you also have all the pumps, screens, scrapers ect. 

In reply to girlymonkey:

Surely the answer is to eat a diet that's high enough in fibre that you only need two squares of loo roll

 Rampart 04 Dec 2021
In reply to Wide_Mouth_Frog:

>  eat a diet that's high enough in fibre that you only need two squares of loo roll

It's often been my experience that a high-fibre diet requires significantly more than two squares. Clogging up with meat and simple carbs is probably the way to go for reducing one's paper footprint.

OP girlymonkey 04 Dec 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

Lots of interesting input here, thanks!

 Snyggapa 04 Dec 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

Although to be fair we are more interested in the output than the input.

 Forest Dump 04 Dec 2021
In reply to Arms Cliff:

There was a very controversial study a few years back where New Zealand lamb came up with a lower carbon footprint than Welsh, as differences in farming methods compensated for the freight  

 Neil Williams 04 Dec 2021
In reply to mik82:

> It's basically a small shower head and hose with a trigger that is attached to the wall by the side of the cistern.  Some are plumbed in directly whereas some are fitted to the cistern supply. I've often thought one of these would be the most environmentally friendly option. 

Not so easy to use on a Western toilet, though.  More suited to a squat.

 Neil Williams 04 Dec 2021
In reply to Cobra_Head:

I find the cheaper WGAC to be awful, basically the same as Tesco Value and not much better than the useless single ply stuff they have at motorway services.  Premium WGAC is good but it isn't recycled, though it is bamboo rather than normal wood.

One notable thing about premium WGAC is that the sheet size is smaller than most, so you probably use a bit less as a result.

Post edited at 13:58
 gimmergimmer 05 Dec 2021
In reply to ripper:

I have it on good authority that Sainsbury's recycled not as soft and caressing as Who Gives a Crap. In fact someone refuses to use it as says it's rough as a badger's arse. (Mind you Badger probably used Sainsbury's recycled without checking  with aforementioned person).

 ripper 05 Dec 2021
In reply to gimmergimmer:

But I thought eco warriors liked the whole 'hair shirt' vibe?

 gimmergimmer 05 Dec 2021
In reply to ripper:

She doesn't.

 Godwin 05 Dec 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:


I have used a Bum Shower or to give them their correct name a, Douche, for the last few years since travelling in India, they are to my mind more Hygienic and comfortable, I never considered the Eco benefits.

You do not need hot water, only a cold feed, by the time the hot has come through, the job is done, or you waste water, or you get a jet of hot water, where you do not want it.

The hoses they come supplied with are a bit long, but you can easily swap the hose for a 50/80cm.

If your water pressure is strong, you may want a shower flow regulator. 

Drying, just wait a minute then maybe dab with one sheet of paper.

Using on a western toilet is no issue, just takes a bit of practice.

All my mates think it quite odd, until I mention my asian friends think our habit of using paper quite odd, and rather Unhygenic.
 

 Mick Bradshaw 07 Dec 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

Try 'Eco leaf' (made by Suma) - despite the name it's loo roll rather than vegetation, made in the UK from recycled fibres and wrapped in paper. 

 hazeysunshine 07 Dec 2021
In reply to girly monkey

Try 'Essential'? According to Ethical Consumer website, it comes out on a par with WGAC on a range of metrics (e.g environmental, supply chain, workers' rights etc). It's a UK based workers' co-operative. The wrapping is derived from potato starch, says compostable - I've just put it in my compost heap so we'll see.

OP girlymonkey 07 Dec 2021
In reply to Godwin:

A bit of a tangent, but in a similar vein I watched a video made by a guy from the traveller community. One comment he made is that the their community believe that clothes for the bottom half of your body are "dirty" and the top half clothes are "clean". So you would separate your laundry by top half and bottom half, the two should never touch! Fascinating how different customs view hygiene matters.


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