Dullard TV question

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 DR 17 Feb 2020

Sorry for being a dullard but any advice appreciated.

I moved into a new house last week. It has a dual satellite cable and my 8 year old non Smart Samsung TV just has an aerial antenna input. No matter what cable adapter I use I get the same message of no signal and no channels from the auto tune process.

Do I need to buy a set top box such as Freesat in order to get channels? I don't want to buy a subscription service such as Sky or Virgin Media - just want to watch basic channels every now and then.

Cheers (from a very non techy person)

Davie

 wilkie14c 17 Feb 2020
In reply to DR:

Sounds like you are plugging a dish into an aerial input. A dish isn’t an aerial so it isn’t going to work. 

Either buy a free sat box that’ll plug into the dish and decode the signal for the tv or get an aerial. You say it’s for your son, his bedroom i’m guessing? Loft aerials are pretty good these days, I’ve got 2 and both provide great signals. 

Rigid Raider 17 Feb 2020
In reply to DR:

This is fraught with difficulty nowadays. We recently had to call our local TV aerial bloke out because our digital picture was pixellating worse and worse. He explained that old-style TV annennae aren't any good and he fitted a new, much smaller one at the bottom of the mast and we now have a perfect picture. This gives us basic TV but even so I find it unncessarily complicated because I don't understand why we have to use two controllers, one for the TV and the other for the digital box thingy. Anyway what I'm saying is that this is one case where it really is best to call an expert, but make sure it's a local who knows the area, not a national masquerading as a local.

 dunc56 17 Feb 2020

In reply https://www.freesat.co.uk/help/using-your-existing-satellite-dish/

got to be worth a try as a Freesat box can be had new for 30-40 pounds sterling

 arch 17 Feb 2020
In reply to DR:

How about a Firestick and watch TV over the internet ??

 LastBoyScout 17 Feb 2020
In reply to DR:

At the risk of asking the obvious, does your new house actually have a TV aerial (in the loft/external) or is it connected to a community loop aerial?

If none, then you'll need to get a digital compatible one - preferably installed in the loft. It's easy/cheap enough to do, but running a new cable can be fiddly. Depending on location/height/line of sight of the house, you may need a signal booster, as we have.

As RR said, get a local expert who will know which way to point the aerial:

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/spectrum/information/tv-transmitter-maps

 arch 17 Feb 2020
In reply to arch:

> How about a Firestick and watch TV over the internet ??

Just curious as to know why my comment got a dislike ?? I would have thought a Firestick or similar would be the perfect answer to the OP, maybe not.

 Martin W 17 Feb 2020
In reply to LastBoyScout:

> At the risk of asking the obvious, does your new house actually have a TV aerial

> If none, then you'll need to get a digital compatible one

There is no such thing as a "digital compatible TV aerial".  It's the tuner in the connected equipment that needs to be able to decode the digital signal.  That would be why Rigid Raider needed the "digital box thingy", if their actual TV is/was so old that it doesn't have a digital tuner.  If they've bought a new TV in the last ten years or so (it became mandatory for new TVs to have digital tuners built-in in 2008) they can ditch the separate digibox.

The digital datastream is broadcast on the same range of UHF radio frequencies as the old analogue channels, and it's the radio frequency that you're trying to receive that decides what kind of aerial you need, not what's actually being carried using that radio signal.

When digital terrestrial broadcasting first started - but before digital switchover happened - the digital channels used additional radio frequencies to the analogue channels, though within the same overall frequency band.  Some of those additional frequencies were outside the narrow group of frequencies used for the analogue channels in a given geographical area, so if you wanted to receive the pre-switchover digital transmissions you needed an aerial that could receive a wider range of frequencies than the the traditional "grouped" aerials used for analogue TV.   Such aerials are called "wideband" aerials, but at the time they were often sold as "digital aerials" - which was technically incorrect, and unfortunately led many people to the misleading conclusion that when analogue TV was being turned off they had to change their aerial as well as getting a digital tuner.

What actually happened, though, was that in the vast majority of the country the digital channels ended up on the same frequencies as the old analogue channels, so if you hadn't bothered with digital TV before then the only thing you needed to change in order to continue to receive TV after the changeover was a digital tuner - your old aerial would happily continue to receive the same radio frequencies as before.

It's actually much easier to design an aerial that works well if you only have to optimise it for a small range of frequencies, so wideband aerials tend to be bigger and more expensive than grouped aerials (plus bigger aerials need heftier masts -> more cost), and in some cases they perform less well in terms of pulling in marginal signals.  Even if your old aerial is actually knackered, you probably only need to replace it with another aerial in the same group, rather than shelling out for a wideband aerial which might actually turn out to be compromised in some way.

All the above being the case, the situation is now being complicated further by the fact that chunks of the radio spectrum that were previously allocated for TV transmissions are now being repurposed for 5G and the like.  So what's happening now is that some of the radio frequencies being used for the digital channels are being shunted around again, and in some areas that may mean that people will need new aerials.  But again, an aerial of the correct group for the new frequency band being used should be adequate and there is no need to get a "digital aerial" because there is no such thing.

One final caveat: there may be an argument for getting a wideband aerial simply to avoid having to change to another grouped aerial ever again.  Then again, there has been talk of re-allocating some other frequencies outside the range of existing wideband TV aerials, to make up for the loss of frequencies in the existing frequency range, which would mean getting yet another aerial.  One could almost get the feeling that governments, regulators, and the industry in general would actually be happier if terrestrial TV would just go away...

And yes, the answer to the actual OP is to get a Freesat box.

 WaterMonkey 17 Feb 2020
In reply to malk:

Well apparently the internet uses 10% of the global electricity consumption so you'd better switch yours off and not post on here!

 LastBoyScout 17 Feb 2020
In reply to Martin W:

I'm guilty of parroting the marketing guff from the front of the box of the new aerial I installed (when we changed from Sky via satellite dish) in conjunction with a half-memory of what you have explained about the original digital frequency ranges - my bad.

Although I do remember it noting about being tuned to reduce interference from 4G mobile signals.

 Jamie Wakeham 17 Feb 2020
In reply to DR:

Few TVs have a satellite decoder built in - if they do it's usually listed as 'twin tuner' or similar in the spec.  It sounds like yours doesn't have this.

The cheapest solution is going to be fitting an aerial, which your TV will know how to decode. But it's worth checking with your neighbours what they do - it might be that the regular signal is rubbish and you need to use Freesat. If so a decoder box will be cheaper than a new TV!

 malk 17 Feb 2020
In reply to WaterMonkey:

posting on forums is insignificant cf streaming vids, although i'd rather stream anything than read your posts..

Post edited at 16:12
6
OP DR 17 Feb 2020
In reply to DR:

Thanks for your responses. I bought a Freesat box but still nada. I get a message saying Freesat transponder not found and no signal. So it's call a local aerial and satellite expert time...

Cheers

Davie

 Mike-W-99 17 Feb 2020
In reply to DR:

Daft question, but is there actually a satellite dish attached to the side of the house.. I ripped out a whole satellite tv installation out of ours that wasn't hooked up to anything.

Post edited at 21:53
 wilkie14c 17 Feb 2020
In reply to DR:

previous owner prob had sky Q so this means you need a new lnb for the dish (google) <£15 screwfix>

The lnb for sky q is different to the lnb needed for freesat. ten mins on google and 5 mins up ladders and youlll be up and running 

 Jabbott 18 Feb 2020
In reply to Rigid Raider:

>  I don't understand why we have to use two controllers, one for the TV and the other for the digital box thingy.

You may be able to retire the TV remote. On our YouView box supplied by BT there's a set-up option to programme the box remote to control the TV.

Cheers,

Jamie

OP DR 18 Feb 2020
In reply to DR:

Yep there is a dish on the roof - cable comes off it and through living room wall. I live in a Glasgow tenement flat so there are also 3 aerials up there! I'll  google lnb (no idea what that is) and go from there.

Cheers

Davie

 Denzil 18 Feb 2020
In reply to Martin W:

Excellent explanation - was about to try to explain it myself but you've done a great job. Only thing I would add is that the coax between the aerial and the TV does degrade with time/rain/weather depending on how good a job was done in sealing the ends. If it's been in a long time it may be necessary to put fresh cable in.


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