Dripping tap woes

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We've a dripping tap. It's a Carron Phoenix (Alba?) mixer and it's dripping from the spout (not the base). Google suggests it's not the spout O ring and more likely the valve. I've had the valves out to see what the state of the washers are and what might need replacing. However Google is also suggesting that the whole valve will need replacing! Had a look through the Carron website spares pages and unless I'm not looking in the right places, this seems like it might be so. That surely can't right though? Disposing of valves rather than replacing a washer/rubber seal. 

Any help in saving me from this cynical world very welcome!

Thanks.

 LastBoyScout 11 Mar 2020
In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

How old is it?

I our kitchen mixer tap started leaking where the spout joins the base - it had corroded through and the whole lot had to be replaced.

Unfortunately, they often seem to be very modular internals now - I'm having a similar issue with the bath mixer tap, but trying to identify both the make and model seems impossible.

 dread-i 11 Mar 2020
In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

I had similar with our tap. It was a cartridge type fitting, which cost ~£15, rather than ~50p for a washer. I seem to remember that you have to use the correct one per side. So its not like you use one and have one spare. If the same side goes again, that's another £15.

 Jimbo C 11 Mar 2020
In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

If this is the type with a quarter turn ceramic valve, then you've annoyingly not got the option of replacing a washer. Tightening up the screw that holds it together will also not completely stop the drip as you don't have anything compressible to 'compress' it against.

I've seen some youtube footage of someone restoring a ceramic valve using an abrasive block / paper. but I have to say this looked very laborious. Sorry, it was ages ago so I can't provide a link.

In reply to LastBoyScout:

Between two and three years. Will have a rummage through the documentation that we received when we had the kitchen fitted... if I can find it! I'm just hoping that the internet is wrong on this. I suspect I'll be whipping the valves out (easy job) and take them to an old school hardware/plumbers shop. See if they can provide an answer. 

The valves can only be bought as a pair for £30. 

In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

Yeah, it seems it's a cartridge type. 

Madness.

Rigid Raider 11 Mar 2020
In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

Make an effort to find the correct cartridge for your tap. If you buy a "universal" cartridge you might find that it turns the wrong way or is half turn instead of quarter turn or some other annoyance. In the end, sad to say, it might be easier to nip to B&Q and buy a new tap. 

 nikoid 11 Mar 2020
In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

We had similar problem and it was a right PITA to find the right spare cartridge. There are loads of types all subtly different, eg different numbers of splines on the spindle which means the knob doesn't fit.  And as someone has already said they are handed so I ended up with a tap that opened and shut the opposite way to the old one. It's now leaking again so based on my experience last time I think I'm going to replace the whole mixer unit.

This time I'm going to use a reliable brand like Bristan or Ideal Standard because the spares are easier to get hold of. Buying taps with unheard of brand names eg from B and Q, seems almost certain to result in not being able to find the right spare when the time comes.

I realise my reply may only be helpful if you decide to replace the whole unit but that's my tuppence.

Post edited at 14:25
In reply to nikoid:

Cheers, both you and RR make fair comment and I'm inclined to not go down the route of bodging.

Thanks.

 Fruitbat 11 Mar 2020
In reply to nikoid:

If you end up looking at new taps then I'd suggest steering clear of Bristan: I bought one to replace a kitchen mixer and the water continued to run for a short while after turning off or, if the flow stopped straightaway as expected, water seemed to be retained in the spout and would run out as soon as the spout was swivelled. This seemed be a common complaint with Bristan, it's even on their website FAQs/comments and they don't seem to see it as a problem. I returned the tap to Plumb Center and the manager phoned Bristan who said that 'it's normal, all taps do it' or some similar waffle.

The other problem with Bristan is that they have invented some 'quick fit' design instead of the standard thread/nut/washer affair and it did not seem as secure or any easier to use than the standard method.

I ended up with a 'Lamorna' brand tap. This is Howdens house-brand, it's been fitted for a few years now and is still working well. It may be worth buying a couple of ceramic cartridges along with the tap to save having to hunt them down later.

Peglers are another brand that I have used am happy with. They still make the old-style taps (with washers and jumpers etc) that can be repaired. I think they are (mostly, maybe all) made in the UK.

Let us know how you go on.

 jkarran 11 Mar 2020
In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

How do the ceramic cartridges actually fail, by erosion or scale build up? Erosion seems a little unlikely so if it's scale then a strip down and good swill through with warm vinegar might be all it needs.

I buried a mixer in the bathroom wall a few years back, should have bought spare cartridges when I could remember what I'd bought! Guess I'll be rebuilding that when the time comes...

jk

Rigid Raider 11 Mar 2020
In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

Someone told me they fail when a bit of grit gets trapped between the two opposing ceramic faces and erodes them. 

 Siward 11 Mar 2020
In reply to Rigid Raider:

That's what the plumber who fixed (i.e. replaced) mine said. It's inevitable over time and the scoring can be exceedingly small- it doesn't take much for water to get through.

I have old fashioned taps now and whilst I occasionally bemoan the fact that I have to turn them through a full 360 degrees, or even more (god, what an effort!), at least they're only a washer away from being like new

 nikoid 11 Mar 2020
In reply to Fruitbat:

Ah interesting, thanks for replying. My reason for suggesting Bristan was because our bathroom taps are Bristan and are 8 years old with no drips which I thought was pretty good. Sounds like a design problem with the mixer tap, not a biggy but it probably would annoy me too!

Agree with you on Pegler, I had all our seized valves in the loft and airing cupboard replaced with these valves, they seem proper commercial quality.

Definitely a good tip to buy spares at the time of buying new taps.

And finally don't hold your breath, I'm putting this job off, removing the kitchen sink and getting it all back together without leaks is something that I don't see going well!

 oldie 12 Mar 2020
In reply to nikoid:

> And finally don't hold your breath, I'm putting this job off, removing the kitchen sink and getting it all back together without leaks is something that I don't see going well! <

Don't be too pessimistic. I'm no expert but have managed both new tap and ceramic valves fine. Awkward access was a problem and try and got right tools eg I found box spanners for new tap invaluable. Hope you have service valves on hot and cold  to tap.

Post edited at 09:21
 krikoman 12 Mar 2020
In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

Ceramic are shit, they wear and can't be fixed, apart from replacing, we got a new tap and made sure it was rubber washer valve type.

Check out how much a new tap is before buying replacement ceramics, it could work out cheaper in the long run. Unless of course you really like 1/4 turn.

 sdw7300 12 Mar 2020
In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

I had a dripping quarter turn (ceramic cartidge) kitchen tap. I managed to take the cartidge apart, clean with some cif and reassemble, which fixed the drop for a few months. 

If you need to replace the cartridge, these guys stock a huge range. Make sure to measure your current cartidge very precisely! https://www.tapmagician.co.uk/NSDefault.aspx    

In reply to krikoman:

> Ceramic are shit, they wear and can't be fixed, apart from replacing, we got a new tap and made sure it was rubber washer valve type.

> Check out how much a new tap is before buying replacement ceramics, it could work out cheaper in the long run. Unless of course you really like 1/4 turn.

This is where my thinking is at the moment. Thanks. 

In reply to sdw7300:

> I had a dripping quarter turn (ceramic cartidge) kitchen tap. I managed to take the cartidge apart, clean with some cif and reassemble, which fixed the drop for a few months. 

> If you need to replace the cartridge, these guys stock a huge range. Make sure to measure your current cartidge very precisely! https://www.tapmagician.co.uk/NSDefault.aspx    

Cheers. 

 nniff 12 Mar 2020
In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

We used to have a place near us, complete with elderly gentlemen in brown warehouse coats, who would take the leaking ceramic valve, examine it, and potter off into a vast maze of shelves and come back five minutes later with a replacement in a small brown paper bag.  Sadly no more, and so the last leaking tap was replaced after a prolonged and fruitless search of the internet for a suitable cartridge.

Rigid Raider 17 Mar 2020
In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

Where household equipment is concerned there's a huge difference in quality between good branded stuff and cheap Chinese no-name. I stay regularly at an hotel in Lagos, which closed its top two floors for a makeover, the first since the mid 80s when it was built and eagerly awaited by regular guests like me and by staff as the place was getting really worn out, thanks to the owner taking out all the profits. They closed the two floors for over two years and when they reopened I was dismayed to see that they had fitted cheap Chinese brassware and electrical stuff. Sure enough, within a year taps and valves started to malfunction and wall sockets to break. It wasa disastrous false economy; talk about spoiling the ship for a ha'p'orth of tar.

 krikoman 17 Mar 2020
In reply to Rigid Raider:

You can't really f*ck an old type tap up though, rubber washer brass seat, there' not much you can make a pigs ear of.

You also get the chance of repairing, new washer, seat grinding tool, good for at least another five years.

Out last ceramic tap was replaced with a cheap B&Q 5 years ago, and it's still working perfectly. IIRK it was under £25


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