/ Down the Pan , Ladybower

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The Wild Scallion 23 Oct 2019

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/local-news/ladybower-reservoir-plug-hole-fish-3454743

Whilst I understand some of the comments about them not being in danger of going down the pan ,  I still think it's ill advised thing to do .

How would you explain that to emergency services ?

Also It might give people ideas that it's safe and you know what people are like .

Post edited at 09:19
2
deepsoup 23 Oct 2019
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

> Whilst I understand some of the comments about them not being in danger of going down the pan ,  I still think it's ill advised thing to do.

Well they are in no danger.  Would you say the same if the photographer had walked up the hill and taken pictures of some wad effortlessly soloing Gargoyle Flake?

I hadn't realised they were in 'tubes', I saw the pic and thought they were on sit-on-top kayaks, and if that were true they'd still have been in no danger unless they sat there for an hour or two in torrential rain.

With levels comparable to that, it takes quite a bit of effort to 'bump' a kayak over the lip to shoot a weir - you have to take quite an aggressive run-up and try really hard to get over.  Weirs have less of a lip to get over and being permanently submerged are generally covered in slippy algae.

"It drops about 200 feet and then a 90 degree turn and goes along to the river further down with a sluice gate."

It drops nothing like 200 feet (20m nearer the mark), it isn't a 90 degree turn (obviously - it goes from a vertical drop into a downward slope, the whole point is for water to flow away) and there's no sluice gate at the bottom (it would be madness to have a gate that can be used to block the 'overflow' from a reservoir, especially one like Ladybower with an earth dam which will ultimately collapse if the reservoir overflows across it).  Apart from that I'll give them top marks for accuracy.

> Also It might give people ideas that it's safe and you know what people are like .

It could certainly be dangerous in higher flows - at which time it looks absolutely terrifying.  I don't think there's really any need to worry about people approaching the plugholes at such times.  If anything this non-story demonstrates the opposite, people don't have ideas that it's safe, they think mostly think it's much more dangerous than it actually is.

I'll tell you what has given me ideas though:

 > Severn Trent, which owns the reservoir, stated: "We’re glad for individuals to use our reservoir for boating and fishing, and boats can be found to rent from the fishery."

This is very interesting.  I have always thought boating on the reservoir was officially banned - certainly if you ask at the fishery they'll tell you that the only boats allowed are theirs, and they are only available to anglers.  Looks like that may be bullshit.  Being a long way from the sea I've often fancied doing a few laps of Ladybower in a sea kayak for training, I've done it once or twice on Damflask but always steered clear of Ladybower because the grief it might entail getting from anglers didn't seem worth it. 

Seeing this makes me feel much more inclined to give it a go.  (Launching/landing well away from the fishery's jetty though, obviously.)

Rigid Raider 23 Oct 2019
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

Well having heard that fish urinate in water I'm quite glad there are some guys there pulling the fish out of the reservoir. I hope they get them all and move on to Thirlmere.

deepsoup 23 Oct 2019
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

This might interest you btw.  This chap isn't the most natural tv presenter, but he's made some nice little films - this one gives you a pretty good look at the structure of the plug'ole:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSnWsGbDoxE

Blue Straggler 23 Oct 2019
In reply to deepsoup:

> I'll tell you what has given me ideas though:

>  > Severn Trent, which owns the reservoir, stated: "We’re glad for individuals to use our reservoir for boating and fishing, and boats can be found to rent from the fishery."

> This is very interesting.  I have always thought boating on the reservoir was officially banned - certainly if you ask at the fishery they'll tell you that the only boats allowed are theirs, and they are only available to anglers.  Looks like that may be bullshit.  Being a long way from the sea I've often fancied doing a few laps of Ladybower in a sea kayak for training, I've done it once or twice on Damflask but always steered clear of Ladybower because the grief it might entail getting from anglers didn't seem worth it. 

> Seeing this makes me feel much more inclined to give it a go.  (Launching/landing well away from the fishery's jetty though, obviously.)

What is it about the quote, that makes you so sure that boating is not to be done exclusively in their rented boats? 

john arran 23 Oct 2019
In reply to deepsoup: 

> Seeing this makes me feel much more inclined to give it a go.  (Launching/landing well away from the fishery's jetty though, obviously.)

Might be some white water potential too; only 20m or so but looks exciting ;)

The Wild Scallion 23 Oct 2019
In reply to deepsoup:

I'm sorry I show concern for other peoples safety , rightly or wrongly.

I always thought that was a noble attribute.

As usual I wish I'd not said anything.  I should just shut up.

marsbar 23 Oct 2019
In reply to deepsoup:

Yes, I assumed kayaking wasn't allowed.  

The film I first saw of this didn't show the lip so clearly.

I believe there is a grate rather than gate, so I think it would be fatal to go down there.  However as you say the water level at the time was OK. 

marsbar 23 Oct 2019
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

It is a dangerous structure if people aren't aware.   It only takes one idiot to climb over the lip to have a look...

deepsoup 23 Oct 2019
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

Easy there TWS, I'm not having a pop at you just respectfully disagreeing and explaining why.

The Wild Scallion 23 Oct 2019
In reply to deepsoup:

> Easy there TWS, I'm not having a pop at you just respectfully disagreeing and explaining why.

It ok.  It's me as usual.  I can't seem to ever be helpful . Just part of be being rubbish , no wonder I'm single and lonely all the time.  

deepsoup 23 Oct 2019
In reply to marsbar:

> I believe there is a grate rather than gate, so I think it would be fatal to go down there. 

The drop alone would likely be fatal, it's a long way down.  Then there's a structure like the bow of a ship that splits the stream into 2 just where the tunnel emerges from the dam, that looks lethal enough!

I've no idea if there's a grate further down, I've never had a nosy round down there to see.  If there were I imagine it would be something a bit like the 'Chipper' on the Upper Tryweryn.  (Which, as I expect you know, can be dangerous but is nowhere near as dangerous as the name suggests.)

Post edited at 11:07
deepsoup 23 Oct 2019
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

It's you as your bad-day usual dude, only in the sense that you're giving yourself a beating for no good reason.  I'm sorry to see the black dog is with you again today, hang in there mate this too shall pass.

summo 23 Oct 2019
In reply to marsbar:

> It is a dangerous structure if people aren't aware.   It only takes one idiot to climb over the lip to have a look...

If people aren't aware... it's pretty unlikely that a distracted dog walker or feral child are going to accidently stumble into it. 

deepsoup 23 Oct 2019
In reply to john arran:

Kinder Downfall on a lilo would be safer.

wilkie14c 23 Oct 2019
In reply to Rigid Raider:

> Well having heard that fish urinate in water 

that’s not all fish do in water, why do you think the sea tastes salty? 

The Wild Scallion 23 Oct 2019
In reply to deepsoup:

> It's you as your bad-day usual dude, only in the sense that you're giving yourself a beating for no good reason.  I'm sorry to see the black dog is with you again today, hang in there mate this too shall pass.

It's been rearing its head recently after more than 3 weeks of relative calm .  Don't get me wrong , nowhere as bad as usual but I'm spending all my time in bed at home sleeping , I've lost  alot of interest in food and the past few days started getting the intrusive thoughts about being crap / insufficient / unlovable / why bother / everything is pointless and full of sorrow at the pain and suffering in the world.

DubyaJamesDubya 23 Oct 2019
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

I feel they are safe but I wouldn't want to do it.

deepsoup 23 Oct 2019
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

It's good to hear it's not as bad as it has been but guess it's inevitable that there will still be ups & downs in spite of recent improvements.  I don't suppose it helps when you fall into not eating again, it's a bit of a vicious circle that having your blood sugar in your shoes can only make things worse really.

I have to say a feeling that everything is pointless and being full of sorrow at the pain and suffering in the world can also be a perfectly normal and healthy response to current events.  It's ironic that we have to maintain a somewhat selfish kind of delusional state of denial most of the time to remain healthy, otherwise you'd just be raging all the time!  (Which ultimately achieves nothing but is corrosive and exhausting.)

I find this time of year tends to get me down a bit, the literal darkness closing in, maybe that's not helping either.  I hate it when the clocks go back (ugh, next weekend!) and the dark evenings are suddenly with us again, wish we would just stop doing that and stick with BST year-round.

I know there have been a few threads offering you support here over time.  I don't have the sound advice to offer that many do, can only wish you all the best.  When you're expressing self-loathing on here all I can do is disagree respectfully there too - I "know" you as well as I do anybody here (well, apart from one or two posters I know quite well in the real world too) and you have always struck me as a thoroughly good egg.

marsbar 23 Oct 2019
In reply to summo:

I wasn't suggesting dog walkers I was suggesting boaters.  Obviously.  Although now I have an image of Lassie barking at people "what's that Lassie, some idiot in the plughole?"

marsbar 23 Oct 2019
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

Back to the GP perhaps?  Try to eat even if you don't feel like it. 

The Wild Scallion 23 Oct 2019
In reply to marsbar:

> Back to the GP perhaps?  Try to eat even if you don't feel like it. 

I think it's still too early to know about the Dr yet (I still expect to have good and bad days , I suppose) .  I'm not sitting in the darkest pit  , I just seem to have started to accept my shit outlook and prospects .  I  have developed a sort of fatalistic outlook presently  . Thursday will be a month on meds.

I am making myself have meal replacements and snacks.    Not the best diet though compared to normal.   I'm not  motivated to cook for myself now much .   Only when I had mum over did I last cook.

DerwentDiluted 23 Oct 2019
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

"But they appeared to be in control of their boats and moved away after I stopped filming "

Reminds me of the time I saw a man walking around Manchester Airport with a feckin huge rifle "but he appeared to be a policeman and moved away after I walked past".  Not news really is it other than at the most specious level.

Post edited at 12:12
1
The Wild Scallion 23 Oct 2019
In reply to DerwentDiluted:

No its not news.  

I'm sorry I posted it and wasted your time .

DerwentDiluted 23 Oct 2019
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

Au contraire Scallywag, I enjoyed seeing that , it shows how averse we are becoming to anything remotely unconventional, and how desperate sub editors are for content they can buffer ads with. You post away and look after yourself, my time is wasted the minute I log in to this place.

Post edited at 12:19
deepsoup 23 Oct 2019
In reply to DerwentDiluted:

> Not news really is it other than at the most specious level.

It's cheap filler skimmed off the social meeja for clickbait - standard operating procedure for bigger and better (so they'd claim) newspapers than this one!

The Wild Scallion 23 Oct 2019
In reply to DerwentDiluted:

I think my immediate response to something I see that could be  potentially dangerous  is to warn and not try to tempt fate .

I would like to think this is good when you work in an educational establishment. But that would be being nice to myself.

deepsoup 23 Oct 2019
In reply to Blue Straggler:

"We’re glad for individuals to use our reservoir for boating and fishing, and boats can be found to rent from the fishery."

> What is it about the quote, that makes you so sure that boating is not to be done exclusively in their rented boats? 

Seriously?

Imagine it's not a reservoir with a fishery, it's a crag with a cafe at the bottom.

"We're glad for individuals to use our crag for bouldering and climbing, and bouldering mats are available to hire from the cafe."

You wouldn't assume that means you can turn up and climb with your own gear?  How on earth could you construe that to mean that bouldering mats hired from the cafe are the only ones allowed?

marsbar 23 Oct 2019
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

> I think my immediate response to something I see that could be  potentially dangerous  is to warn and not try to tempt fate .

> I would like to think this is good when you work in an educational establishment. 

Entirely correct.  There are kids who don't know these things.  I saw a post elsewhere saying it's not dangerous because  the water on the steps isn't deep.  Somewhat missing the main hazard of a 20m drop and strainer.  

Posting was the right thing to do and I've posted it elsewhere for the same reason.   

marsbar 23 Oct 2019
In reply to deepsoup:

I read it the same as you. Unfortunately I'm having problems at present with my wrists but maybe next year?  

summo 23 Oct 2019
In reply to marsbar:

> I wasn't suggesting dog walkers I was suggesting boaters.  Obviously.  Although now I have an image of Lassie barking at people "what's that Lassie, some idiot in the plughole?"

Most boaters are more conditioned than land goers to always play it safe, research, or inspect potential hazards etc.. pre inspecting falls, strainers, weirs is just standard practice.  

marsbar 23 Oct 2019
In reply to summo:

Some are, some rock up to decathlon or even Lidl or go on ebay, buy an inflatable or a second hand boat and just go on the water.  I've seen a few and I'm aware of at least 1 fatal on a well known, relatively  safe and regularly paddled weir, a beginner paddling alone with no safety gear.  

Ridge 23 Oct 2019
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

> I think my immediate response to something I see that could be  potentially dangerous  is to warn and not try to tempt fate .

> I would like to think this is good when you work in an educational establishment. But that would be being nice to myself.

It's good regardless of the location. Adults too can be utterly blind to what, to most reasonable people, is an obvious danger.

As a non-boater it looks like a daft thing to do to me as well. However, has as been explained above, my assessment was wrong as I don't have that level of experience. No big deal, I'm now better informed as a result.

Be nice to yourself. You're a decent bloke who does the right thing.

mick taylor 23 Oct 2019
In reply to Rigid Raider:

https://www.daleheadhall.co.uk/lake-district-wildlife

>  I hope they get them all and move on to Thirlmere.

Yes please!!!!!!   

deepsoup 23 Oct 2019
In reply to marsbar:

> Unfortunately I'm having problems at present with my wrists but maybe next year?

Ah, frustrating, sorry to hear that.

I'm unlikely to get around to it this year, mainly because I seem to be getting increasingly nesh in my old age and really don't enjoy getting cold.  It's often occurred to me it'd be quite magical to be on the water on Ladybower around dawn in the summer, but tbh the thing that's most prevented me from doing that isn't a worry that access is not allowed, or an aversion to potential conflict with stroppy anglers, it's a sheer lack of the self-discipline needed to get up that early in the morning! ;-)

Whatever Severn Trent's attitude is, the main thing that would put me off is still potential conflict with stroppy anglers.  I'd be mildly concerned about parking a car anywhere near the fishery office with j-bars on the roof for fear that it might be vandalised in some small petty way.  Down towards Fairholmes should be safe enough though.

If I ever do get around to it you'd be more than welcome to join me.  Maybe we should organise a UKC sea-kayaking picnic sometime (on the actual sea, obvs).  That would be a little bit ironic - there hasn't been a climbing meet for *years*.

pec 24 Oct 2019
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

> I'm sorry I posted it and wasted your time .

Don't be sorry. As a result of your thread somebody posted a youtube video above of a guy walking about down there which was very interesting. If you hadn't started the thread I'd never have seen that. So even if that wasn't your intention, the law of unintended consequences has had a positive outcome.

edwardwoodward 24 Oct 2019
In reply to deepsoup:

Thanks for the link. Enjoyed the vid.

kevin stephens 24 Oct 2019
In reply to deepsoup:

It’s very frustrating that access to kayakers is not allowed on any of the reservoirs in the Sheffield Basin. The  sailors and rowers have their own protected access. So much for Sheffield being the “outdoor capital”. Not a substitute for the sea but would be great for groups to practice rescues, rolling etc. I’ve even thought about buying a WW kayak to use on the River Don but so far thankfully managed to resist.

A UKC sea kayaking meet/picnic would be great. Ideally a month in Lofoten but maybe shorter and closer to home?


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