UKH

Hi all,

bit of advice please from the community- 

Is all double glazing "made to measure"? Lots of company websites state that deposits are non-refundable as the windows are made to measure. I thought that most double glazing would be standard units, ordered in standard sizes from the manufacturer....therefore they are not made to measure? The manufacturers supply a range of standard sizes which fit the normal window cavity sizes for a bungalow/terrace/flat etc, with jambs of various sizes used by the installers for fine adjustment of fitting.

Also, am I right in saying that when new windows are fitted there is a possibility that the following will be needed post-install - repair of exterior render, damaged by installers removing the old windows; install/repair of internal sills and window surrounds ; possible internal plaster repair and painting. I take it this is not done or organised by the bush-bash-bosh window installers and I'll need to also budget for a builder, carpenter, plaster and a decorator...????

it's mostly made to measure, and they never know what horrors they will uncover when they take out the old windows (structurally, or how they were fitted). 

Local firm with good reputation is the way to go, or even better if your windows are original, refurbish them not replace with plastic fantastic.

If you've ever tried to fit a door in a house, you'll know that there is no such thing as a standard size and shape of house - you always have to shave some off.  You can't really shave anything off a uPVC window frame, and it looks crap (or worse[1]) if you have gaps with filler or bits of plastic covering them, so yes, they do indeed have to be made to measure.

[1] One of the things that allowed fire to enter flats in Grenfell Tower so easily was that they'd replaced the windows on the cheap with massive gaps around them.

They aren't misleading you, windows will be made to measure. 

How much remedial work needed will depend on the current windows. Best to check how they would finish this off before you sign a contract.

Also, not all glass is equal, coated units like planotherm are better insulating, so don't just assume they are trying to upsell you. 

You can get standard sizes but that's really only an advantage if you are in the pooh and need the window immediately.  As others have said, made to measure is much better.

Proper fitters will do all the making good, although you must ask them how they will do it. With some their idea of making good is putting a wide plastic cover strip around both sides, which can look a bit crap.

Happy memories, we got one of the big firms (Anglia) to fit some for us at our last house.  We knew a reasonable price (~4K) and they offered the best options of the set.  My wife was happy to talk to them all, she has staying power!

Anyway... 17k. Bye bye. Wait, 16k. Nice talking to you. Oh but it’s Tuesday, 15k, month 14k, special offer, 13k and so on and on.  5-6 hours of this with the guy just persisting.  He got a taste of his own medicine as my wife broke his spirit and finished with a request for wooden frames and various other options.  When the contractors came and fitted them all they said it was amazing value and thought the rep had just gone for the sale not realising the cost of the fitted wood.

I felt a bit unhappy with all the reps from the big companies that they pull this stuff.  Fine for us but some poor old lady or person without building knowledge.

We had clever glass in the sliding doors of our current house.  Amazing stops to much heat and when you stack the open you can sit behind in direct sun without being blinded.  The blue tint stuff is even better but trade off is you lose more light.

Cheers and good luck

I assume you also got the "let me just call my boss" and maybe the "we are looking for a show house in the area" as well? 

We went with Yorkshire windows, guy came to quote, showed his sample and worked out what we wanted and left and sent us the price through the post a few days later with a promise to never contact us again if we didn't like the price, he has in the middle of the quotes we got and we went for it. 

To the Op, when you are discussing the finish work remember the alarm sensors. Ours made good the plastering etc but I had to get an alarm firm in to sort that side of it out. 

"Oh you live on a bus route" is one I had (I don't, it was a school bus)

I would much rather the price be the price without all the messing around

Oh yes, several times in fact.  My wife didn’t mind, she genuinely wanted to have a long discussion, maybe not that long, about windows.  I think that’s what broke the the guys spirit in the end, he left knowing more about the windows he was selling than when he arrived.

Cheers

Tob

We recently had a bedroom window and garage window replaced as well as all the windows in the garden room. Which included French windows/ doors plus 2 full length windows either side and 3 further 7 foot high windows down the other side. We were replacing the rotten wooden windows in the garden room and the other 2 windows were white while the rest of the house has grey plastic ones, we went for plastic to match the rest of the house and to keep the cost down. They came and measured up as soon as they started working post first lockdown. They said they would be ready to fit in 2 months. They then gave us a date a week later then they had said.

They then called to say Thursday and Friday of the following week. 11 am on Thursday no sign of fitters. Wife called them and was informed they would be here by 1:00pm. 1:30 they arrived and started I had to go out at 2:00 but by the time my wife got home at 4:30 they had gone but bedroom and garage windows fitted. They turned up at 9:30 on Friday removed all the windows in garden room and by 1:30 all the new widows fitted and sealed. They cleared everything away and there was no mess. We didn’t even need to to touch up the paint round where they had fitted the new frames. I couldn’t believe how efficient they were given peoples horror stories of having windows fitted. They did a better job than we had bespoke wooden windows fitted in a previous house.

We also didn’t have to pay a deposit.

Who was the company? And whereabouts are you? We're in the Peak and looking at getting our windows done

 Unfortunately not very local to you. Beverley Windows East Yorkshire. I have a mate who is a builder who reckoned they all get their windows and frames from the same manufacturers. He said he could do it cheaper but as he’s a one man band I reckon it would have taken a lot longer. 
I would look for a local company and ask them for reviews from previous customers. We had recently moved in to this house and found the paper from B.W. When they had fitted the other windows in the house and as these seemed ok. We got them to give us a quote, which came back much cheaper than we thought it would be.

I can highly recommend Sheffield Window Centre

Is there a big difference conceptually between paying the non refundable(*) deposit for the materials for the made to measure windows, and that cost being absorbed into the price of “off the shelf” windows?

My house is very non-standard, it’s more than 200 years old and has probably been chopped and changed in time. Maybe I am naive but I didn’t even think to question the “made to measure” aspect when I got half my windows done in 2009 and the remainder done this summer.

The ones they did this summer did indeed reveal “horrors” left by pervious fitters and it is for me to patch up some gaps, in my case I mostly just need to fill everything with “bonding plaster” and then choose whether I want to skim and finish it 

my asterisk on “non-refundable”...if they make a mistake on their measurements, and the made to measure windows don’t fit, then your deposit is refundable. At least that was a clause in my “contract”. 

As can I. I live in Fulwood, (apparently very posh) and their vans are all over the place, I've used them twice, good advice on aesthetics etc, no hassle and good value.

I didn't just want to press the 'like' button on this because I VERY STRONGLY AGREE...!

We used Sheffield Windows Centre for soffit, fascia and guttering on our house (S7) about 5 years ago and they were great!  I seem to recall that they made a single visit to measure everything, then gave us a quote, pretty much saying 'get back in touch if you're interested, but we won't hassle you again' (so, so different to other companies who came to offer quotes).  They did a fantastic job, and also did a great repair job on some patio slabs that had been damaged by the scaffolding.  One thing that impressed me was that they actually employed all the people that worked on the job (again, very different from some of the other companies that we had round)

This is one of the few topics on here I can offer sound advice as I run a small window installation business in Sheffield. Naturally I'll say I'm the best there is like everybody else that will offer their services. What I will do is encourage you to check the market and give you some pointers.

Always use a Fensa or Certass registered installer as you will need completion certificates. This will not guarantee a high standard of work

You should get a written quote with an itemised explanation of what you will get.

On agreement you should get a 2 part sales contract that will protect your consumer rights.

If you pay a deposit they have to give you an insurance policy for that deposit which will give you cover incase they go bust before you get your windows.

Never hire cash in hand.

Never hire from Trustatrader or other recommendation sites.

Always hire on recommendation.

Sheffield Window Centre are a good company but quite expensive (sorry if they're reading, I've pinched quite a few jobs of them)

Damage should be kept to a minimum, existing render and plaster condition differs from job to job but should be patched back in where needed.

Stay away from the national chains like Safestyle, use well established local outfits.

Painting and decorating will be your problem.

Frames should be installed with expanding foam to eliminate cold spots.

Plastic strips on the insides of frames is just plain lazy!

Message me if you need any help, I'm currently off work due to knee surgery.

Thanks all for the info. I never thought the UKC community would be such a fount of knowledge on double glazing!

Interesting, the idea of refurb rather than replace. I like the idea of this. Happy to pay the same price as a full refit if it is a little more environmentally friendly and a cleaner, quicker fit. Not sure the wife would agree as there is no 'shiny new' involved.

Thanks olddirtydoggy for the trade knowledge. Very helpful. 

My wife got a quote from Anglian as a starter for ten. I haven't got involved yet. Poor salesman are all going to have to deal with my long list of paranoid OCD questions.

Good stuff, I'm not currently taking on more work on due to 3 months off whilst I'm on crutches and I've got 4 months work waiting for me when I'm back. If it helps, I'd be willing to advise on any quotes you've had as I know the cost of materials and what the mark up will be. I've never had so much time on my hands! Good luck either way.

Thanks for the advice. I'll give them a call and see if we can get a quote when lockdown is over

We've had 2 quotes from a local company already. We're in a fairly modern 4 bed detached house. One was for white uPVC frames and it was about £6.5k. The other was for a different material (can't remember what is called I'm afraid) which was in a wood effect and the quote was nearly £13k. It feels like a crazy amount for a different type of frame. What's your opinion on that?

So many things can slide a price up or down.

For example, you say you're in a 4 bed house so lets say there are around 10 windows. If 2 of those windows happen to be bay windows you can add on around £1600.

The age of your house will slide the price up and down. You say that your property is fairly new so that will work to your advantage because already I'm assuming the old windows can be deglazed, unscrewed and removed quite easily without chewing them out with chisels and cutting tools. Chances are the internal cills are OK and the plaster might be plasterboard meaning a line of decorators caulk will finish the job inside.

Door prices slide vastly. I did an over sized composite door for £2500 this year with handmade etched glass and handmade hardware. In contrast, we did a cheap and chearful door for £900 for someone else.

As an example of what I charge in my local market, I did a full house of 10 windows and 2 high spec, large composite door with side windows for £4500. The windows were old PVC so they were very easy to replace. In contrast I have a job coming up for 5 windows and we are pushing £2500 as the windows are old Victorian sash boxes that will bring a lot of debris down with then and leave me with a load of plastering.

The short version is, there isn't a price list and the spec of windows now can be chosen from a large amount of options. Gone are the days of 4 door styles to choose from like we had in the 90's The supplier I use for composite doors claim you can design 10,000 different doors using all the options. Feel free to message me if you need a pair of eyes on what you've been given.

With Anglian its worth knowing that all their staff are self-employed 0 hours contractors.  They even have to pay a rather extortionate rate to hire the branded van of Anglian,    so they are a fairly demotivated bunch at the moment