Do this now, it is important

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 jockster 27 Mar 2020

Go-to,

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/ 

Find your MP.

Demand that they lobby parliament NOW, TODAY, to get PPE equipment of a sufficient quality to protect our NHS staff. 

Thanks.

 Stichtplate 27 Mar 2020
In reply to jockster:

Done and sent. Cheers for the link.

 krikoman 27 Mar 2020
In reply to jockster:

Done

 IM 27 Mar 2020
In reply to jockster:

Done

 EarlyBird 27 Mar 2020
In reply to jockster:

Thanks for the prompt - done.

 IceKing 27 Mar 2020
In reply to jockster:

Done

 Darron 27 Mar 2020
In reply to jockster:

Done

GoneFishing111 28 Mar 2020
In reply to jockster:

Done

 deacondeacon 28 Mar 2020
In reply to jockster:

Done

 aln 28 Mar 2020
In reply to jockster:

Isn't parliament shutting down?

 Stichtplate 28 Mar 2020
In reply to aln:

> Isn't parliament shutting down?

parliament is shutting down tonight, the government isn't and neither are the phone, post or internet systems.

 veteye 28 Mar 2020
In reply to jockster:

Done

In reply to jockster:

Done. 

 Wise 28 Mar 2020
In reply to veteye:

Done

 Ridge 28 Mar 2020
In reply to jockster:

Done

 wintertree 28 Mar 2020
In reply to jockster:

Done.  In my letter I linked to this article in the Lancet - https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30727-3/...

I am also spreading my take on this through my social media, a contact who organises lobbying for a large charity and directly to the few people I know in the civil service.  It’s not a lot but the more who do this the better.

 Stichtplate 28 Mar 2020
In reply to wintertree:

> Done.  In my letter I linked to this article in the Lancet - https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30727-3/...

> I am also spreading my take on this through my social media, a contact who organises lobbying for a large charity and directly to the few people I know in the civil service.  It’s not a lot but the more who do this the better.

This morning I had a message from a friend and colleague with a lot more time in the service than me. He strongly advised me to wind my neck in on Facebook as it's very early in my career to get my card marked (I should point out that I've posted twice about covid 19 and made no criticism of my organisation or management). There's a lot of clinicians out there who're very anxious but feel unable to speak up

Post edited at 10:28
 mary 28 Mar 2020
In reply to jockster:

Done.

OP jockster 28 Mar 2020
In reply to jockster:

Response back this morning from my MP, David Rutley, below.

Keep sending the messages and keep the focus of MPs on this critical issue,

Thanks, Simon

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Mr Thomson,

Many thanks for your email and for getting in touch on this important issue. I am keeping in regular contact with Macclesfield Hospital and Health Ministers on this and other health related matters.

I will continue to raise this issue in my conversations with Ministers in the days ahead.

Thanks again for getting in touch in these challenging times.

With best wishes,

David

David Rutley MP

-----------------------------------------------------------------

In reply to jockster:

Done

In reply to Stichtplate:

That's sad to hear, especially off the back of just writing a couple of general posts. I don't know why it still surprises me to hear examples of how the entire culture within organisations works to discourage whistleblowing, raising concerns, or just generally "making a fuss".

 Offwidth 28 Mar 2020
In reply to jockster:

The editor of the Lancet having a go at a minister on BBC Question Time illustrates why this is important.

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/off_belay/the_ongoing_government_problems...

In reply to jockster:

I mailed thus:

Dear Debbie Abrahams,

I am an A&E Specialist Registrar doctor in Pennine Acute NHS Trust.

I implore you to lobby in parliament for sufficient provision of adequate PPE for us at the front line in healthcare right now. 

Without going into details, our current situation is farcical, or would be, if the circumstances were not so serious.

Yours sincerely,

Dr David Bertalot
GMC 7045248

 MG 28 Mar 2020
In reply to jockster:

Fine. But do we really think this isnt already a priority? 

2
 TobyA 28 Mar 2020
In reply to Just Another Dave:

Didn't know what your job was Dave, but good luck and try your best to stay safe. I presume from the tone of your letter you are basically seeing a complete lack of the now all-to-often-PPE kit? I wrote the following earlier to my MP.

Dear Mr Rowley,

As your constituent I would like to know why friends and acquaintances working for the NHS, both within North East Derbyshire and across the UK, as paramedics, nurses and doctors are still reporting, as of Saturday 28th March 2020, that they do not have access to the necessary PPE to protect themselves against the novel corona virus whilst caring for our fellow citizens.

I fully accept that this is a time of unprecedented national emergency, but watching the government briefings daily, whilst trying personally and as a family to follow both the spirit and the letter of the government's advice, I have been struck by how the words coming from the prime minister and secretary of state for health on the provision of PPE for frontline medical staff simply do not match with the experience of my friends and relatives who are actually in those roles. My cousin is a senior nurse with responsibility for a pediatric ICU at one of the large London hospitals. She believes she has contracted the virus but does not know for definite because tests have been unavailable over the last week, so has spent the last 7 days at home self isolating, not using the skills and knowledge that she has developed over the last 25 years. We ask so much from people like my cousin in normal times, in an unfolding pandemic now, the least they should expect is to have access to PPE to protect themselves.

Please, please do whatever is within your power to assist in protecting the NHS in this most basic of ways.

Yours sincerely,

Toby Archer PhD.

Moley 28 Mar 2020
In reply to jockster:

I'm sure the procurement of all medical supplies is a worldwide bunfight. Looking at a BBC report on the ventilators gives an idea of what is going on, a couple of quotes from the article:

The market price for one particular type of ventilator increased in a week from $27,000 (£21,700) to $96,000 (£77,100) - a sign of just how intense the demand is.

An array of middlemen, fixers and consultants are often involved along the supply chain and some are likely to be adding huge price mark-ups on equipment they say they can get hold of in the current crisis. "There are going to be some multi-millionaires made," said one person who works in this world.

Nice, there's always money to be made at someone's expense!

I appreciate the above doesn't specifically involve ppe equipment, but gives an idea of being the scenes.

 Stichtplate 28 Mar 2020
In reply to MG:

> Fine. But do we really think this isnt already a priority? 

Look on the news at what other clinicians around the world are wearing. The only place f*cking this up as badly as we are is run by The Donald.

...tells you all you need to know

2
 MG 28 Mar 2020
In reply to Stichtplate:

I know there are shortages. I am just querying the reason. I'd be surprised if its because no one is trying to get equipment. More likely surely global demand and disrupted supply chains. 

1
 Stichtplate 28 Mar 2020
In reply to MG:

I’ve got privileged insight into supply and allocation way, way above my pay grade and this is absolutely being screwed up. Put simply, we’re one of the richest, most advanced nations on Earth and we’re equipping our clinicians as though they’re working in downtown Mogadishu 

 MG 28 Mar 2020
In reply to Stichtplate:

So where are the problems? Is it distribution? 

1
In reply to jockster:

Is this not asking for blood out of a stone. It’s just not available worldwide. So much so that a health worker came to pick up a  visor after appealing for any one who had spare PPE yesterday 

the time to lobby will be in the years to come,  but our  memories are not going to be long enough and before long it will be me me me and l’m all right 

1
 MG 28 Mar 2020
In reply to Name Changed 34:

Despite Stichtplate claim, I yhink it is. We have been asked to explore 3.d printing face shields, and here is an example of the problem Spain (which have higher priority globally than tbe UK) is having.

"

A plane carrying 1.2 million face masks arrived in Madrid on Saturday morning.

And a military aircraft took off from Zaragoza to Shanghai where it will pick up a shipment of medical equipment, according to El Pais." 

1
 Stichtplate 28 Mar 2020
In reply to MG:

> So where are the problems? Is it distribution? 

It’s everything. The systems a mess but it’s all been hugely compounded by a lack of urgency and ‘grip’ at the top. This is how bad things are: message from a mate who’s on shift this morning who’s just informed me that the only FFP3s on station are 6 years out of date and there are no more plastic aprons so they’ve been told to attend suspected covid 19 cases wearing a black bin bag with holes for arms. We aren’t even into the foothills of this pandemic and already we’ve been reduced to this.

When this is all over some of the people at the top need shooting. Doubtless it’ll actually be knighthoods and honours all round.

Moley 28 Mar 2020
In reply to MG:

If someone can point to a warehouse in the UK stuffed to the roof with ppe equipment and a bloke on the door not releasing it or whatever, then there is a mighty cockup and criticism deserved.

But if as I fear, there is worlwide problem with demand outstripping stocks and production, that is another problem. Hindsight is a great thing.

 Stichtplate 28 Mar 2020
In reply to MG:

> Despite Stichtplate claim,

My 'claim' is based on information supplied by a close rellie employed by one of the biggest global players in the PPE market, they also sit on the board of a national safety industry oversight body. If you've got a better source, let's have it.

 MG 28 Mar 2020
In reply to Stichtplate:

Is he saying there is a stash of equipment not being made available that could be? 

1
 Stichtplate 28 Mar 2020
In reply to Moley:

> If someone can point to a warehouse in the UK stuffed to the roof with ppe equipment and a bloke on the door not releasing it or whatever, then there is a mighty cockup and criticism deserved.

I can't point to any other countries sending paramedics out wearing bin bags. Can you?

 Stichtplate 28 Mar 2020
In reply to MG:

> Is he saying there is a stash of equipment not being made available that could be? 

They're saying strategic decisions and advanced planning were being put in place in other countries months ago. Not the case here

 Rob Exile Ward 28 Mar 2020
In reply to Stichtplate:

Can't help thinking it would be a lot easier for someone  (design and manufacture basic ppe than it will be design and manufacture ventilators. Probably save substantially more lives too.

 MG 28 Mar 2020
In reply to Stichtplate:

From Italy 

"Some hospitals do have enough Personal Protective Equipment (PPE), but in most cases, nurses and doctors are forced to wear masks which are far past their effective use, and in some hospitals in central and southern Italy, staff have no PPE at all."

The point is there is a global problem here. While medical staff not having what they need is shit, it's s not because politcians are twiddling their thumbs. So mass letter writing is unlikely to help, unfortunately. 

4
 Mr Lopez 28 Mar 2020
In reply to Stichtplate:

Anyone at your station got a bit of time to set up a paypal for donations and organise some shopping? It may be the NHS is too big to look into the more targeted small volume shopping from smaller traders and could be worth taking over 'locally'. It's no right, but needs must.

For example, disposable aprons are still widely available from catering suppliers, https://www.pattersons.co.uk/disposable-plastic-aprons.html as are face shields in tools/diy shops. FFP3 masks are non-existant, though at a pinch if really desperate 'rubber' masks with replaceable filters are still available. (Probably impractical to disinfect after every callout, but)

 Stichtplate 28 Mar 2020
In reply to MG:

> From Italy 

> "Some hospitals do have enough Personal Protective Equipment (PPE), but in most cases, nurses and doctors are forced to wear masks which are far past their effective use, and in some hospitals in central and southern Italy, staff have no PPE at all."

Italy are way ahead of the curve pandemic wise. We're already at that point Italy's at with PPE right now when the shit hasn't even hit the fan yet.

> The point is there is a global problem here. While medical staff not having what they need is shit, it's s not because politcians are twiddling their thumbs. So mass letter writing is unlikely to help, unfortunately. 

Crack on mate. Defend the indefensible and justify doing f*ck all.

If you don't agree with writing to your MP about this fine, but why are you going so out of your way to discourage anyone else from contacting their elected representatives with very pertinent concerns?

Post edited at 14:00
6
In reply to MG:

Have to admit not following closely though it overly obvious it’s a testing time for all  one that Government should be fully planned for— if not prepared , plague is not a new thing  

its also a time for helping others , and if that’s other countries then we should  That’s not to say we should indirectly help others war aims   Nor is it a time to be mealy mouth and  priorities the week .We have  some incredible horror to face ,we have no choice  undoubtably not any  easy if you’re not provided with safety and your exposure to risk is higher   

So yes kick your MP arse today but don’t forget to kick it tomorrow and take stock of the country that will take you Tax and what it provides for you 

security

health

schooling

but we should be prepared to pay and not just with money 

sorry not really a reply more musings  

 Stichtplate 28 Mar 2020
In reply to Mr Lopez:

No idea who to approach about PayPal donations and nobody has any time on station to organise such stuff (we aren't the bloody fire service ). If you've got access to PPE donate it to your local ambulance station. Every service is different and we aren't supplied directly from the NHS but most of the ambulance trusts are in the same boat. The only ones that are in a marginally better position are trusts like Yorkshire and West Mids that invested heavily in powered air hoods. Worth their weight in gold in the current crisis.

 MG 28 Mar 2020
In reply to Stichtplate:

> Crack on mate. Defend the indefensible and justify doing f*ck all.

I"m not defending anything, or doing "f*ck all", so calm down. I'm simply trying to point out letter writing to people who cant change what you want changed wont help.

> why are you going so out of your way to discourage anyone else from contacting their elected representatives with very pertinent concerns?

I'm not. Go ahead and write letters if want. 

Post edited at 14:16
6
Moley 28 Mar 2020
In reply to Stichtplate:

> I can't point to any other countries sending paramedics out wearing bin bags. Can you?

Nobody wants you or anyone else to either, we all have 100% sympathy with your predicaments and it is bad, we understand your frustrations.

But if the kit isn't there, then it isn't there and nobody has pointed to where it is. If a bin bag is the best you have and is better than nothing, then that is your answer.

4
 Mr Lopez 28 Mar 2020
In reply to Stichtplate:

> No idea who to approach about PayPal donations

Anyone with a bank account that isn't already linked to Paypal can just set up a Paypal account with it and then put it out through forums, facebook and other social media for people to chip in. (My account is already linked to a Paypal one so can't help with that)

> and nobody has any time on station to organise such stuff (we aren't the bloody fire service ).

Any takers in this forum?

> If you've got access to PPE donate it to your local ambulance station.

Yeah, already taken to the local hospital a bunch of tyvek suits and some masks i had at home left over from an asbestos job. Can't see that making any difference looking at the volumes needed though

 Stichtplate 28 Mar 2020
In reply to Moley:

> Nobody wants you or anyone else to either, we all have 100% sympathy with your predicaments and it is bad, we understand your frustrations.

> But if the kit isn't there, then it isn't there and nobody has pointed to where it is. If a bin bag is the best you have and is better than nothing, then that is your answer.

Are you reading this thread? Mr Lopez has just pointed out where aprons are available, he even supplied a link. You and other have tried to say that we're experiencing the same supply and distribution problems as every other country. As I pointed out up thread, our country is in a much worse position with regard to PPE than any other nation at a similar point on the pandemic curve. You can keep saying that this is not the case, but I'm afraid it is. I've seen the empty store rooms with my own eyes and I'm following various PPE threads on international EMS groups. 

Pan Ron 28 Mar 2020
In reply to Stichtplate:

Then why wait for "the government" to step in?  What stops administrators, hospitals, or trusts from making those purchases?

1
 Stichtplate 28 Mar 2020
In reply to Mr Lopez:

> Anyone with a bank account that isn't already linked to Paypal can just set up a Paypal account with it and then put it out through forums, facebook and other social media for people to chip in. (My account is already linked to a Paypal one so can't help with that)

It'd be a massive faff I think. Any donations to the ambulance service end up in a central welfare fund that is completely separate from procurement. At the same time PPE procurement is being strictly ring fenced and some random popping up with a PayPal account won't get anywhere near buying FFP3s for instance. What is really needed is centralised PPE procurement and distribution rather than the fragmented, inefficient and ad hoc system currently in place. The major stumbling block preventing this is too many petty emperors protecting their little empires and a shocking lack of vision, direction and above all 'grip' in government.

They say organisations always take on the tone exhibited at the top. I'm afraid we're now paying the price for having the famously wooly and work shy Boris as our leader.

 Stichtplate 28 Mar 2020
In reply to Pan Ron:

> Then why wait for "the government" to step in?  What stops administrators, hospitals, or trusts from making those purchases?

In the setting of an International crisis do you really need it explaining how the concepts of economies of scale, mass purchasing power and the force of governmental persuasion, would lead to a national body having a far greater influence on multinational PPE manufacturers than say Mr Brown the purchasing clerk at Widnes urgent care centre?

 Stichtplate 28 Mar 2020
In reply to MG:

> Have a read of this. 

We know global PPE manufacturing can't keep up. The issue is WHY IS THE CRISIS SO MUCH MORE ACUTE IN THE U.K.?  Are you not getting that? Are you not understanding that this is the whole point of writing to our MPs? 

1
 skog 28 Mar 2020
In reply to MG:

From your link,

Community - Home - Healthcare workers - Providing direct care or assistance to a COVID-19 patient at home - Medical mask Gown Gloves Eye protection

My wife's team have no eye protection or medical masks, and don't know whether their patients have covid-19

Stichtplate isn't making this shit up, you know.

Moley 28 Mar 2020
In reply to Stichtplate:

No I didn't click on his link before, I have now and they are available and if that is what you use I have no idea why your employers haven't simply ordered them? Does everything in the service come from central UK supplies, or is it regional or what? Something very odd there.

 MG 28 Mar 2020
In reply to skog:

I dont seem to explaining myself. I know there is a shortage and I know this is shit and an urgent priority. However, everyone in government and the civil service know this. too so I don't believe mass letter writing to MPs will help. The WHO document shows it is indeed a global problem, and other links show similar shortages in the US, Italy and Spain. 

4
 MG 28 Mar 2020
In reply to Stichtplate:

> We know global PPE manufacturing can't keep up. The issue is WHY IS THE CRISIS SO MUCH MORE ACUTE IN THE U.K.?  Are you not getting that? 

Is it? Other countries (quote above for Italy from two weeks ago) seem to be in similar difficulties. 

4
 skog 28 Mar 2020
In reply to MG:

> However, everyone in government and the civil service know this. too so I don't believe mass letter writing to MPs will help.

From the Lancet link above,

England's Deputy Chief Medical Officer, Jenny Harries, said on March 20, 2020: “The country has a perfectly adequate supply of PPE.” She claimed that supply pressures had now been “completely resolved”.

I think it's likely that quite a few MPs are still unaware of the scale and urgency of the problem, and  focussing their attention on it even a day or two earlier can make a difference here. I certainly can't see any disadvantage to trying.

The main (or first main, depending on what happens later) wave of people falling ill hasn't happened yet, it's likely about a week away, as the effects of the pre-lockdown spread manifest. The main wave of deaths will probably break a week or two behind that. Every day helps right now, and it should be possible to manufacture some of the required PPE equipment quicker than it will for ventillators, anyway.

As things stand, the disease is going to rip right through the NHS staff, and they're going to pass it on to their patients and families, bypassing the lockdown restrictions.

 Stichtplate 28 Mar 2020
In reply to MG:

> Is it? Other countries (quote above for Italy from two weeks ago) seem to be in similar difficulties. 

I've pointed out numerous times on this thread how the UK is different. You can look yourself at how clinicians around the world are dressed...it's on the news 24/7. There's an international EMS group on Facebook called 'paramedics on Facebook', it's got 650,000 members and had a long thread of PPE selfies from around the world, all the other nations EMS were in FFP3s and tyveks, they definitely weren't wearing bin bags and surgical masks. But don't take my word for this issue being a national disgrace, how about the UK's doctors?

https://www.bma.org.uk/news/media-centre/press-releases/2020/march/bma-warn...

how about the UKs nurses?

https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/coronavirus/rcn-asks-prime-minister-to-pe...

I've already given you a direct perspective from the ambulance service and I've already told you of a relative's direct experience within the international PPE industry. There is no more to say. You can either believe what all these various sources are indicating, that the government is royally screwing this up, or you can continue insisting that the governments doing just fine.

Edit: Evidently the government weren't doing everything they could to address PPE supply. Sharma has just announced "a range of measures to boost the supply of personal protective equipment". Measures which should have been introduced long before we saw paramedics on our streets wearing bin bags.

Post edited at 16:17
 MG 28 Mar 2020
In reply to Stichtplate:

> , they definitely weren't wearing bin bags

sorry, the unfortunate fact is thy are

https://www.businessinsider.com/kious-kelly-hospital-nurse-dies-trash-bags-...

4
 Stichtplate 28 Mar 2020
In reply to MG:

> sorry, the unfortunate fact is thy are

What are you having difficulty with, reading or retaining information? Your link highlights an incident in America. This is what I wrote in reply to yourself just a few hours ago on this thread...

Look on the news at what other clinicians around the world are wearing. The only place f*cking this up as badly as we are is run by The Donald.

Post edited at 17:34
 MG 28 Mar 2020
In reply to Stichtplate:

Just above your wrote “all” countries.

Anyway, good luck.

6
 colinakmc 28 Mar 2020
In reply to jockster:

Done.

Not forgetting the the reason for the shortage was a DoH decision 9n 2017 that it was too costly to stockpile. Health Secretary: J.Hunt esq. 

Guess who’s running around saying the Government must deal with this now? J. Hunt. 
 

No shame at all.....

 The Lemming 28 Mar 2020
In reply to Stichtplate:

> This morning I had a message from a friend and colleague with a lot more time in the service than me. He strongly advised me to wind my neck in on Facebook

I'm not on Facebook for this very reason.

This is the only social media forum that I am on.

Deadeye 28 Mar 2020
In reply to skog:

My son is a hospital doctor. He lives in a house with three others.

We just spoke - he sounds tired and downhearted. He's not going to see his girlfriend (also a doctor) for quite some time.

They know the squeeze is coming. As they're all in different hospitals and wards, their household is a severe risk.

It's be nice for them to at least have gear as good or better than that I have in my workshop

 running scared 28 Mar 2020
In reply to Deadeye:

Unfortunately I think for many of us working in healthcare this is going to be more than a squeeze.  I sincerely hope that I am wrong.

A good friend who is a doctor in Spain described the hospital where he works as apocalyptical. In my hospital we have been told to expect cases to double every 3 days until mid April when the social distancing measures should kick in.  Basic maths based on the number of confirmed patients we have gives over 5000 cases in the next two and a half weeks. We have less than 400 beds. My partner is on call for ICU this weekend at another hospital and thinks the ICU will be full be tomorrow night based on the rate that people are  coming in.

The basic PPE advised by PHE of surgical mask, apron and gloves does not meet minimum WHO guidelines. We have been told this is sufficient unless you are doing aerosol generating procedures (eg, intubation, NG insertion, surgery, CPR...) but we all know it is because we do not have anywhere near enough. The latest batch of FFP3 masks delivered were many years past the original expiry date. 

A contact who procures PPE for a company that supplies the NHS has put some gloves and masks aside for us both. She has been told they will likely run out of gloves in the next 2 or 3 weeks due to the factories abroad where they source the gloves from diverting stock to other places.

The government has been far too slow to act throughout this crisis and additional people will die as a result.

 jethro kiernan 28 Mar 2020
In reply to jockster:

I’ve been trying to get this going on linked in, I know a lot of companies hold stock of PPE that would be suitable for using as a stop gap for NHS staff

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jethro-kiernan-4271973a_stayaheadofthecurve-...

if you know of any companies that use this equipment then see what they can do.

In reply to jockster:

I've just got up for work.

Was in bed trying to sleep at midday, when I followed this link and mailed my MP.

She replied immediately, wanting to make a phonecall. So I shall be speaking to her tomorrow morning after this nightshift. 

Haven't had time to read how this thread has progressed since my last post, but are there any particular issues anyone would like to summarise or suggest?

OP jockster 28 Mar 2020
In reply to Just Another Dave:

I think it maybe good if someone could have a go at putting together text for a proforma email to make it easier for more people to effectively get the key issues of the situation across. Thanks everyone for all the discussion, information and, most, importantly contacting your MPs. Simon

OP jockster 28 Mar 2020
In reply to jockster:

Contribute to PPE crowdfunding effort

https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/masks4nhsheroes

Deadeye 28 Mar 2020
In reply to running scared:

> Unfortunately I think for many of us working in healthcare this is going to be more than a squeeze.  I sincerely hope that I am wrong.

> A good friend who is a doctor in Spain described the hospital where he works as apocalyptical. In my hospital we have been told to expect cases to double every 3 days until mid April when the social distancing measures should kick in.  Basic maths based on the number of confirmed patients we have gives over 5000 cases in the next two and a half weeks. We have less than 400 beds. My partner is on call for ICU this weekend at another hospital and thinks the ICU will be full be tomorrow night based on the rate that people are  coming in.

> The basic PPE advised by PHE of surgical mask, apron and gloves does not meet minimum WHO guidelines. We have been told this is sufficient unless you are doing aerosol generating procedures (eg, intubation, NG insertion, surgery, CPR...) but we all know it is because we do not have anywhere near enough. The latest batch of FFP3 masks delivered were many years past the original expiry date. 

> A contact who procures PPE for a company that supplies the NHS has put some gloves and masks aside for us both. She has been told they will likely run out of gloves in the next 2 or 3 weeks due to the factories abroad where they source the gloves from diverting stock to other places.

> The government has been far too slow to act throughout this crisis and additional people will die as a result.


Good luck to you and yours, amigo.  Thanks for what you do.

 Bobling 29 Mar 2020
In reply to jockster:

My other half's boss has been on the local news a couple of times this week.  He's tired, stressed and under enormous pressure.  He's in the NHS.

The thing I can't understand is why when I was taking this seriously enough on 3RD FEBRUARY to go to Aldi and stock up on tinned foods and flour and whatnot the powers that be did not see fit to take appropriate precautions.  I'm just a working Joe with no specialist knowledge.  

When my wife shame facedly announced that she'd spent the previous day with her 'prepper' husband stockpiling she was met with raised eye-brows and laughter.

I just do not understand.  Sorry this is not meant to be 'I told you so' I just really can't understand why this seems to have come as such a suprise.

Edited to take out some of the I don't understands but left them in for emphasis.

Post edited at 02:02
 Blue Straggler 29 Mar 2020
In reply to MG:

What is your aim? 

1
 wintertree 29 Mar 2020
In reply to Bobling:

> The thing I can't understand is why when I was taking this seriously enough on 3RD FEBRUARY to go to Aldi and stock up on tinned foods and flour and whatnot the powers that be did not see fit to take appropriate precautions.  I'm just a working Joe with no specialist knowledge.  

The public enquiry is going to be savage.  I’ve never felt so let down by government and institutions.  They didn’t have to press the “panic” button in February but that damned all could have pressed the “prepare” button. 

 summo 29 Mar 2020
In reply to wintertree: 

> The public enquiry is going to be savage.  I’ve never felt so let down by government and institutions.  They didn’t have to press the “panic” button in February but that damned all could have pressed the “prepare” button. 

Not just in the UK. Football matches between Spanish and Italian clubs in February, with spectators, when cases were first emerging. Cover ups at Austrian ski resorts, lack of flight bans.... that ppe wouldn't be needed if the stable door wasn't left open. 

I think the biggest back last long term could be against China. 

Post edited at 07:23
 Stichtplate 29 Mar 2020
In reply to summo:

>.... that ppe wouldn't be needed if the stable door wasn't left open. 

I don't think you've fully grasped quite how monumentally badly this has been managed. According to the BBC, as of the 28th, the area I work in had just 19 confirmed cases in a population of 209,547. The virus hasn't hit us properly yet, no overflowing hospitals, no temporary morgues...but we've already run out of PPE. The only FFP3 masks we have initially went out of date in 2014 and we're wearing bin bags to protect our uniforms, a uniform I then have to take home and wash in my family's kitchen.

If things don't change, by the time the virus hits us full force I'll be in washing up gloves, a bin bag and with a buff pulled over my face.

 summo 29 Mar 2020
In reply to Stichtplate:

Oh I can assure you I do... I'd have to reckon up, but I probably know a dozen paramedics in the UK, I wouldn't want their job just now. All health care services are in for a real $hit storm, on scale that all those people who think they have some human right to exercise, walk their dog etc. Have no understanding of. A clap for the nhs, great nice sentiment, what they really needed was more taxes over the last 30 years. 

Yeah. The government missed several chances to prepare, they all have. One doesn't learn from the other at all. Complacency of the highest order. Governments, the eu, WHO.... doing too little too late. The repercussions politically could be major. 

 Blunderbuss 29 Mar 2020
In reply to Stichtplate:

The government should have introduced emergency powers weeks ago forcing any business that could quickly shift production by whatever means to manufacturing PPE to do so....

My wife is a ward sister on a COVID19 ward and I fear for her safety.....she's 46 so should be 'safe' but you hear of 'viral overload' and the fear comes. TBH I am more concerned for her mental health as our hospitals become overloaded.

 MG 29 Mar 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

As per my Initial post, questioning whether MPs have any power to make a difference here for all the reasons above. If they don’t letters are futile.

One thing I have t seen but maybe it is out they are specifications for the required PPE, as has been released for ventilators. 

Post edited at 09:10
1
 Stichtplate 29 Mar 2020
In reply to MG:

> As per my Initial post, questioning whether MPs have any power to make a difference here for all the reasons above. If they don’t letters are futile.

Futile or not, we have no other means of communicating to the government just how bad things are for the NHS. You've repeatedly pointed out on this thread how we're all wasting our time. What do you suggest? that everyone in the NHS just crack on without PPE, that we contract covid 19 and then trail it through all the homes and hospitals we visit and finally take it back to our own families? This isn't conjecture or hyperbole, this is the reality.

> One thing I have t seen but maybe it is out they are specifications for the required PPE, as has been released for ventilators. 

I've repeatedly mentioned FFP3. This is a specification. The HSE guidance on respiratory protective equipment:

https://www.hse.gov.uk/pUbns/priced/hsg53.pdf

Please note, the surgical masks that NHS staff have been told are adequate to attend suspected covid 19 patients aren't included in this guide. This is because surgical masks don't reach the minimum specifications required to count as respiratory protective equipment. Also worth noting, I don't know of any of my colleagues who have been fit tested for issued respirators as per legal requirements enforced by the HSE.

The phrase, 'thrown under the bus' springs to mind.

Post edited at 10:06
 MG 29 Mar 2020
In reply to Stichtplate:

I was meaning more a spec so manufacturers could try and make ppe. I think it is happening, or planned at least. 

Probably better than this

https://twitter.com/adrianzenz/status/1243992460839321600?s=19

Moley 29 Mar 2020
In reply to wintertree:

I think they were also caught out by the public reaction, which was the vast majority ignoring them. 

Government started softly with the "wash your hands" and then progressed to a more voluntary "don't do these things". Many seemed to ignore this advice and go on a massive binge of socialising, panic buying and general stupidity. 

This caught the government out who went into lockdown mode and sure there will be further restrictions. I do wonder what would have happened if the British public had taken it more seriously 2 weeks earlier and slowed things down a little. 

 wintertree 29 Mar 2020
In reply to Moley:

I can see how the government might understandably misjudge the public reaction.  On the other hand I can’t begin to comprehend why urgent action wasn’t take to start producing sufficient PPE in late January.

Turns our they’d done and kept secret scenario planning which revealed exactly this problem 3 years ago. 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/28/exclusive-ministers-warned-nhs-...

 Stichtplate 29 Mar 2020
In reply to MG:

> The point is there is a global problem here. While medical staff not having what they need is shit, it's s not because politcians are twiddling their thumbs. So mass letter writing is unlikely to help, unfortunately. 

More evidence (as if it's really needed) of incompetence and a lack of urgency in the government.

UK clothes makers say the government has wasted time in ordering personal protective equipment for NHS staff. Fashion and textile firms believe they could have begun making gowns and masks for front-line workers 10 days ago.

"The government is dragging its heels and it is really, really frustrating," said Kate Hills from Make it British, a trade group.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52082248?intlink_from_url=https://www.b...

2
 bouldery bits 29 Mar 2020
In reply to jockster:

Done.

In reply to jockster:

Mine got back to me this morning. 

Dear Mr Ioannou,

Thank you for taking the time to write to me about the NHS and ensuring a supple of Personal Protective Equipment for staff.

In the past few weeks the Covid-19 crisis has tested our health system like nothing else. We have been inundated by with first-hand accounts from NHS workers. Their courage, heroism and dedication are extraordinary, not least when colleagues and friends become seriously ill.

However, they need protection more than admiration. The coronavirus spreads rapidly and exploits ambivalence. It demands a government effort like we have never seen before.

On the frontline there is growing concern — indeed fury — at the inadequate protective equipment some NHS workers receive as they administer care. Getting this right should be the absolute minimum of what is expected in one of the wealthiest countries in the world and yet so far it is not happening.

Some hospital doctors are left to treat patients with the coronavirus wearing only scrubs and aprons. GPs have inadequate protection and yet are expected to examine people who have the infection but are not displaying symptoms.

As the GMB union has highlighted, even ambulance workers aren’t guaranteed basic protection such as hand sanitiser, wipes or masks.

It is not the fault of their managers, who are distressed and operating under severe constraints. The responsibility to fix this situation lies with the government.

We would not send our troops to war without the necessary armour and protection, yet this is what is demanded of a significant number of health workers every day. It cannot and must not continue.

NHS staff tell us they need goggles or visors, full protective surgical gowns and clothing, long gloves, thermometers, fully fitting masks and hand sanitiser. Any distribution problems need overcoming as a national priority reflecting the scale of this emergency. Assurances that things are under control and that supplies are adequate are at odds with the reality on the ground.

It is short-sighted for NHS staff to be under-protected during a pandemic. Not only are they at heightened risk of being infected themselves and to get ill, but as they have pointed out they fear they could spread the virus to patients. This has to be rectified no matter what the cost and as quickly as is humanly possible. Let’s see the plan to achieve this.

All health workers need to get tested for Covid-19 as and when they need to. The unwillingness to test more people is hard to explain when South Korea has achieved great reductions by mass-testing. Let’s learn from their experience and expertise, alongside the advice of the World Health Organisation. We should aim for mass-testing, but ensure that health workers get the tests they require as capacity expands.

NHS staff, from health professionals to cleaners, are doing everything they can to protect us. The government needs to protect them and we will continue to hold them to this.

Thank you once again for taking the time to write. If in future there is any other issue with which I can be of assistance, please do not hesitate to write back and I will be happy to do what I can to help.

Sincerely,

Steve Reed OBE MP
Member of Parliament for Croydon North

 Stichtplate 03 Apr 2020
In reply to Mountain Spirit:

Nice one. He sounds like he has a really good grasp of the situation. My MP (Andy Carter, Conservative) came back with a very brief email full of platitudes of the “don’t worry your little head about it. We have this all in hand” variety.

I replied, pointing out my own experiences over the last week which indicated that the issue of PPE was far from in hand and it seemed that the government response thus far had mainly consisted of empty promises.

i got an even briefer reply letting me know that my concerns had been noted.

 deepsoup 03 Apr 2020
In reply to Stichtplate:

I almost gave you a 'dislike' there.  I don't dislike your post obviously, but I have suddenly taken a bit of a dislike to your MP.  Grr.

 jkarran 03 Apr 2020
In reply to Stichtplate:

> They're saying strategic decisions and advanced planning were being put in place in other countries months ago. Not the case here

This is the scandal, not that while running to catch up they inevitably keep tripping, it's that they took weeks to even start jogging and then it was in the wrong direction! 

jk

1
In reply to jockster:

I've contributed £10 and 5% tip when added together is £10.50.

OP jockster 06 Apr 2020
In reply to jockster:

Please contribute:

https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/masks4nhsheroes

Thanks, Simon

Moley 07 Apr 2020
In reply to jockster:

Just found out a friend we know through the red squirrel conservation has got himself a 3D printer and is making visors for NHS staff in Wales, all paid out of his own pocket. Wife just mailed him $50, seems the least we can do.


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