Diet - what worked for you?

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 bouldery bits 21 Jan 2021

Alreet,

Because I like to make all my decisions based on anecdotal evidence, I want to know, what dietary changes worked for you?

After some surgery a few years back my weight crept up.

I've now lost all that weight, using the strategy of calories in < calories out over a sustained period and I am back at a weight that works for me and I'd like to maintain. Now though, I want to eat for 'performance.'

I know this makes me sound like one of them triathlon Wally's, but hear me out.

Nowadays, I do lots of running for fun, a bit of a cycling, a bit of surfing and some walking in the hills. What should I be eating to maintain my current weight whilst also making my body work really good and stuff?

There are lots of books and that but largely folk are trying to sell something or have an agenda of some kind. 

So, what has worked for you guys personally?

Post edited at 21:48
 girlymonkey 21 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

Ditching processed sugar. Sadly, I have lost the resolve on it recently and the weight has crept up a bit again (not crazily so, but I should ditch the sugar again really). I would still have fruit and occasional small amounts of honey, but nothing else. I felt amazing on it, no sugar crashes etc. 

1
 girlymonkey 21 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

I haven't read it yet, but I have seen good things said about this book and think it might be worth looking at

http://www.tim-spector.co.uk/the-diet-myth/

 profitofdoom 21 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

> ............I want to know, what dietary changes worked for you?

Smaller portions at most meals

 Shani 21 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

> So, what has worked for you guys personally?

Targeted Ketogenic Diet. I got beasted on UKC around 2010 for proposing ketogenic-based diets (see my bio), but i see they've had a resurgence of late.

12
 Jon Stewart 21 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

I'm afraid I don't know much about weight loss. But I find a diet of coffee and potato cakes for breakfast, soup and a sarnie for lunch and a nice healthy home-cooked dinner with fresh vegetables keeps me at a stable weight. I supplement this with a cocktail of booze and drugs from 7.45pm onwards, and that stops me from giving a shit about anything, which is vital for mental health these days.

 birdie num num 21 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

Every time I get too thin I go on a high burger diet

2
Alyson30 21 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

For me the only thing that works is to do a full fast of 48 continuous hours once a week, and another 24 hour fast.

It’s pretty extreme so I don’t really recommend to do it, but it’s the only thing that ever worked for me. Obviously this is for weight loss and health, for « performance » it’s terrible.

Post edited at 22:23
3
mattmurphy 21 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

I’ve not played around with diet a huge amount, but performance wise I found a healthy balance diet combined with being relatively strict about timing meals around  training seemed to help. I’d always aim to have something small and low GI about an hour before training, some relatively high GI carbs and some protein within half an hour after exercise, and a proper meal within 2 hours or so of exercise. 

No idea how much diet contributed when I felt like I was going well, but those sort of timings seem to have a good evidence base in terms of maximising recovery. 

 Welsh Kate 21 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

I was recommended an app - MyFitnessPal - by a friend and it worked really well for me. It's one of those apps that makes calorie counting really easy and you can just input target weight-loss and it did all the work for you. Trying to come in under the calorie target each day turned it into something akin to a phone game and gave added impetus to making it work.

 The New NickB 21 Jan 2021
In reply to Shani:

> Targeted Ketogenic Diet. I got beasted on UKC around 2010 for proposing ketogenic-based diets (see my bio), but i see they've had a resurgence of late.

New name, all its Shaman are toking on the covid denial pipe!

 Shani 21 Jan 2021
In reply to The New NickB:

> New name, all its Shaman are toking on the covid denial pipe!

I actually recall we've had a few 'diet disagreements' over the years! 🤣

However, we've found common ground on most other stuff - economics & politics. 

Diets are clearly way more contentious than Brexit, and possibly above E0/TPS. 😉

 The New NickB 21 Jan 2021
In reply to Shani:

You must have noticed that a lot of the LCHF gurus are seriously pushing some bad shit on Covid. Be it Ivor Cummings, or the car crash at the end of a distinguished career that is Tim Noakes and many others, they are literally killing people. Whilst it certainly isn't for me, I'm not totally against the principles of LCHF, but it certainly attracts a lot of grifters!

5
 veteye 21 Jan 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

I'd agree with you GM, but that's also as I'm prediabetic, and I try not to eat much fruit, although in winter I eat 3-4 oranges a week, and I've always had limes and lemons in for cooking etc. Otherwise there is too much fructose concern in fruit.

I find it hard not to eat lots of cheese: So some time ago, I cut out all soft cheese, such as Brie. I tend to go more for the more rubbery cheeses such as E:mmental or Jarlsberg, as I think that they have more protein and less fat.

I eat loads of green vegetables to try to fill the gut and stave off the CHO hunger.

Most mornings, I'll have a small/moderate bowl of porridge, and then I'm able to go for a long time without eating. I not uncommonly miss out lunch or evening meal, and v occasionally both. Not quite as bad as Alyson though.

 Shani 21 Jan 2021
In reply to The New NickB:

> You must have noticed that a lot of the LCHF gurus are seriously pushing some bad shit on Covid. Be it Ivor Cummings, or the car crash at the end of a distinguished career that is Tim Noakes and many others, they are literally killing people. Whilst it certainly isn't for me, I'm not totally against the principles of LCHF, but it certainly attracts a lot of grifters!

Agreed. I too was went a tad puritanical around 2012! 

In reply to The New NickB:

> You must have noticed that a lot of the LCHF gurus....

It's the LCME gurus you want to be paying attention to...

http://viz.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/024_viz242_LCME.jpg

 guffers_hump 22 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

I like to get absolutely blitzed on the weekend, but change it up everyweek so I don't ruin the high. Usually in the order, MD (E's for you oldies), bit of bag (wanger), Mkat (ergh) and last speed. A good month between each really keeps it fresh ya know.

But in all seriousness, I did Keto to lose some fat. If you are willing to do the low carb make sure to eat lots of Veg, I ate loads of veg and salad, then you can have strawbs, rasps and a few blueberries. I got well trim, but it isn't good for putting on muscle or for just maintaining (well I found that).

When you are just trying to maintain I'd just try to cut out processed crap, easy vegetable filled food, if you aren't a vegan then I recommend making Clarified butter (Ghee) for frying. Defo better for us than Sunflower or rape oil. Also cook with butter where I can. Lots of nuts as well. Just generally real food tbh.

 Ridge 22 Jan 2021
In reply to guffers_hump:

Can't beat a healthy slick of ghee!

J1234 22 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

The two super foods are Marmalade and Viagra.

1
 jethro kiernan 22 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

Ditching bread especially white processed bread

cut the alcohol 

after big exercise ie. bike rides, hill days have a pre prepared healthy snack to kill the munchies when you get in rather than filling up with chocolate digestives.

keep above digestives and other “snacks” out the house and shopping basket.

judicious use of protean shakes/protean rich foods after training sessions helps recovery and stops snacking

 ianstevens 22 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

> Alreet,

> Because I like to make all my decisions based on anecdotal evidence, I want to know, what dietary changes worked for you?

> After some surgery a few years back my weight crept up.

> I've now lost all that weight, using the strategy of calories in < calories out over a sustained period and I am back at a weight that works for me and I'd like to maintain. Now though, I want to eat for 'performance.'

> I know this makes me sound like one of them triathlon Wally's, but hear me out.

> Nowadays, I do lots of running for fun, a bit of a cycling, a bit of surfing and some walking in the hills. What should I be eating to maintain my current weight whilst also making my body work really good and stuff?

> There are lots of books and that but largely folk are trying to sell something or have an agenda of some kind. 

> So, what has worked for you guys personally?

As a rule of thumb, any diets that encourage not eating for long periods or cutting out entire food groups/large ranges of foods are a bad idea. I'll put this up front - I'm vegetarian and don't drink milk/limit milk products purely on ethical grounds. I'm sure I could improve my dietary quality by consuming both, but my priorities lie differently.

Basically just get it so that calories in = calories out. Save your high sugar foods for before and during performance - so you can have your cake and eat it (literally) so long as its a) before you do some exercise and b) still in your calories in = out. High intensity exercise is fuelled by sugar - so give yourself some! There rest of the time try and keep the sugar down as others have said. Sugar isn't the enemy, sugar AND inactivity are the enemy. 

The other thing you'll want to help you perform is enough protein and spread out accordingly. Exercise causes damage you then "super compensate" from (i.e. your body repairs the damage then adds a bit extra) and you need to resources to do this with - protein. My understanding is that you want to get as much as possible, without it using up too much of your caloric budget. If you eat to excess it will a) pass straight through you or b) get used as a pretty inefficient energy source via gluconeogenesis (the liver converts it to sugar). Better to eat a good amount of carbs so that your body isn't do this IMO (as for performance, efficiency is king). To put some numbers on this my understanding is that you want to be shooting for 2g/kg/day for performance (note this is way above the governments recommendations). For someone who is about 75kg, this is 150g. This gets a little more complex in that you need to spread this out through the day (there is an absorption ceiling) in servings of 25-30g. I go for 5 rounds of 30 g myself - 3 meals and 2 snacks. Breakfast, Lunch, Afternoon Snack, Dinner (I eat quite late, 7:30-8ish as I prefer a big meal after training), and pre-bed Snack. For the pre-bed one I almost always just have a protein shake. Can always swap these around if the timings don't work, and there is easily scope for a second breakfast. If you're using a calorie counting app anyway you can keep track of your protein intake easily.

Fat I don't really worry about. I fiddle with the other too and it's just there.

Final thing that makes a difference for me is making sure I get enough iron, sodium and calcium. I'm vegetarian and don't drink milk so basically I supplement for iron and calcium with a decent multivitamin. Some on this thread will argue that the fact I need to do this means my diet is deficient, but I'd argue that the act of supplementation acknowledges I don't get these nutrients from other parts of my diet and I'm fixing it to make my diet non-deficient. Regarding sodium, I cook 99% of my food from scratch so it's pretty low in salt - I make an effort to add sodium and will often have an electrolyte tablet in my water or m are a DIY juice/water/salt mix when I train. 

Re resources - the ClimbSci podcast is very interesting and easy to listen too (albeit long) which is run by a couple of chaps who focus on climbing specifically. More generally, I've found the Complete Guide to Sports Nutrition (Anita Bean) pretty good without trying to sell you any weird fad diets. 

3
 ALF_BELF 22 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

Mostly just stick to real stuff that looks like food and avoid (most) artificial things.

Fruits, vegetables, meat, fish etc = real

Monster Munch, Irn Bru, Angel Delight, Coco Pops = artifical

I am partial to the odd bag of popping candy and a few pretzels mind.

 artif 22 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

LC works for me not so much High fat but ditching carbs has been the best for me. I find them addictive, i.e having a carb breakfast makes me feel hungry all day. Having protein rich breakfast means I don't feel hungry through the day. Also I don't get the highs and lows associated with carbs either, no afternoon slump following a sandwich or similar for lunch.

Phil Maffetone has been has been a real help with recipes.

Caveat, I'm no athlete and rarely climb any more and hate "exercise" (still bike and paddleboard a bit) which has made weight control much harder as I get older.

 backlrp 22 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

First of all, you have to cut off from junk food. I was really fat, then I start using lemon in my food and some fat-burning ingredients. That's it.


https://thexploretech.com/pros-and-cons-of-social-media-for-youth/

Post edited at 10:24
 Flinticus 22 Jan 2021
In reply to ALF_BELF:

> Mostly just stick to real stuff that looks like food and avoid (most) artificial things.

> Fruits, vegetables, meat, fish etc = real

> Monster Munch, Irn Bru, Angel Delight, Coco Pops = artifical

> I am partial to the odd bag of popping candy and a few pretzels mind.

Similar to my approach, except I don't eat meat (or drink milk).

Weight has rarely been an issue for me:  daily walks with the dog, probably 10km each day. And, when open, indoor climbing sessions 3/4 times a week.

When the hills re-open, I'll be back there and do not eat much when walking (hate the sensation in my stomach) and avoid pilling it on afterwards. I do have a weakness for home baked goods however but not so fond on commercially produced sweets etc., usually opting for nuts instead if I need a hit from a shop.

 RobAJones 22 Jan 2021
In reply to artif:

> Having protein rich breakfast means I don't feel hungry through the day. Also I don't get the highs and lows associated with carbs either, no afternoon slump following a sandwich or similar for lunch.

This has been the same for me. Changing from muesli/toast to something like a omelette (with assorted veg. and sometimes some meat) for breakfast and to salads rather than sarnies at lunch has meant I don't want snacks anymore during the day, if I'm not doing something active. I'd go as far as saying, if I have an additional piece of toast with breakfast, I'm actually more likely to want a snack by 10/11.

 plyometrics 22 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

Would highly recommend going plant based. 

Whatever you decide, if you find something that works, make it a permanent lifestyle choice rather than a temporary ‘diet’ fix. 

Otherwise you'll find yourself slipping in to bad habits and putting timber back on. 

Good luck.

 Dan Arkle 22 Jan 2021
In reply to RobAJones:

Another +1 for lots of protein. 

I can lose weight on any strict diet, but on higher protein diets (especially breakfast) it feels easy as I don't get hungry.

It's feels good for the body and recovery too, but a pity its terrible for the planet. 

In reply to bouldery bits:

First off was giving up drinking alcohol, after which I steadily shed weight. It’s not just the calories, it’s what it does to your metabolism and sleep patterns.

Second was plant based diet. I’m pretty sure that eliminating dairy is responsible for the most weight loss. The upside now is eating as much as possible to keep my weight up. 

 Billhook 22 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

Eating less worked for me.

 jassaelle 22 Jan 2021
In reply to Welsh Kate:

My fitness pal is the devil! 

trying to come in under a calorie target feeling like a game - reminds me of how my anorexia started.

counting calories isn't accurate - e.g. nuts - because your body doesnt digest the whole nut.. think about sweetcorn coming out the other end. 

I find that personally my fitness pal gives an underestimate of the amount of food people should eat and it encourages disordered behaviours like weighing food.

 girlymonkey 22 Jan 2021
In reply to jassaelle:

I also found that any of these food tracking apps only work if you are buying ready made food. If I am cooking from scratch, I have no idea of how to log it in any meaningful way.  

 ianstevens 22 Jan 2021
In reply to jassaelle:

Why does weighing food mean a disordered behaviour? If want to measure cal in vs out then its essential. 

I use MFP BUT not the preset calorie goals - I set my own which are quite a bit higher (based on years of n=1 experimentation). All depends on your relationship with it and how you use it; it's not bad per se.

2
 Aled Williams 22 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

Having overcome a few eating disorders since the first lockdown i'd be very wary of people trying to sell you elimination diets (like keto) and fasting diets.

fundamentally eat a balanced satiating diet getting all you're nutrients and you should be onto a winner.

Personally I chronically under fueled my body for months leading to numerous injuries including a stress fracture in my right shin. The starvation eventually led to a binge eating disorder which was a viscous cycle of physical and emotional turmoil and anxiety about my weight.

At the start of lockdown stuck indoors with one of my injuries I decided to educate myself, and did courses on the open university and such to gain a better understanding of how to eat. Having effectively sorted myself out i've had the best and strongest 10 months of climbing, running and mountaineering ive ever had.

Honestly I wouldn't take any dietary advice off a forum, consult a nutritionist or someone who has a clue. The topic of nutrition/sports nutrition is a minefield of fad diets and unfortunately people can get really hurt.  

Lattice training put out loads of good stuff on nutrition, maybe have a look there !

Post edited at 15:00
 Babika 22 Jan 2021
In reply to jassaelle:

I love My Fitness Pal for short periods. I use it for home cooked rather than pre packaged all the time. It helps me appreciate the dead calories in alcohol and chocolate if nothing else! 

The only downside is it can be too easy to "earn" more calories through exercise and thence abuse it. 

 girlymonkey 22 Jan 2021
In reply to Aled Williams:

Out of interest, what courses did you do at the open university for nutrition? I find it an interesting subject with lots of contradictory advice. I would like to understand the science of it better

 Aled Williams 22 Jan 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

I wont let me copy the link, but the OU has free courses loads of free courses 

I started with "The science of nutrition and healthy eating" but did anything which sparked interest !

 climbercool 22 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

 

> I've now lost all that weight, using the strategy of calories in < calories out over a sustained period

you and every other person who has ever lost weight in the history of the planet has lost weight with this strategy.  It's like saying my strategy to win the football match is to score more goals than the opposition.

2
 RobertHepburn 22 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

I use three strategies:

1. Time restricted eating, currently about 12:30-2030. I find the morning fast ok, then exercise between lunch and dinner. Might be tricky when I go back to an office, but suits me at the moment.

2. Controlling sleep by going to bed before midnight, strong light during the day, dim lights after dinner. I used to stay up too late and eat badly.

3. Eat lots of protein. Saw a good article in new scientist where they said the you have a separate Protein hunger, and it is the strongest one. 

Currently doing this and I have lost 4.5 kg in 70 days, which is about 65g/day. Have another 10kg to lose to get to my goal weight, which I was about 4 years ago, but then I got into bad habits and the weight slowly crept up again. So far it hasn't felt hard, which is important as I don't think it is sustainable if you have to suffer.

Good luck with it!

 Shani 22 Jan 2021
In reply to ianstevens:

> ...is that you want to be shooting for 2g/kg/day for performance (note this is way above the governments recommendations).

I was getting grief as recently as 2016 for suggesting this (https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/walls+training/remember_my_ketogenic_diet...).

Back then it was called a 'fad' but now it's on climbing podcasts....

Reminds me of a poster on UKC who came round to some of my line of thinking, but with a caveat; it turns out i was right, but for the wrong reasons.

In reply to bouldery bits:

5:2 diet has been brilliant for me. All the other methods require you to battle with your willpower every day which doesn't work for me. With the 5:2 you eat normally 5 days of the week but limit to 600 cals 2 days per week.

2 days of self control. If you have a craving for a pint or a kfc or whatever you can just put it off until tomorrow (and maybe the craving will be gone by then). If you give in you can just make the next day your fast day. Easy.

 Timmd 22 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits: 

A 'balanced diet' with some input from sports magazines might be what I'd look into?

 UKB Shark 22 Jan 2021
In reply to Shani:

> Reminds me of a poster on UKC who came round to some of my line of thinking, but with a caveat; it turns out i was right, but for the wrong reasons.

Be grateful for that - it’s the most you’ll get out of me

 Shani 22 Jan 2021
In reply to UKB Shark:

> Be grateful for that - it’s the most you’ll get out of me

Beetlejuice! 😉

 Yanis Nayu 22 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

MyFitnessPal works really well for me. I average about 200 miles a week cycling so that helps. I think as a rule eating lots of nutrient rich, calorie poor foods (vegetables basically) helps. Nothing too extreme, aim for a pound a week loss max, cut yourself some slack if you’re ill. Good luck. 

 Mike-W-99 22 Jan 2021
In reply to cumbria mammoth:

I did it too, found it pretty easy to do but not in winter as I got too cold. Dropped to 6:1 after successful loss in order to maintain it. 5 years on and still not regained anything plus I gained a grade.

In reply to cumbria mammoth:

I was doing 5:2 last year and lost 5kg in two months. It definateley worked for me, did take some will power, but the thought that it was only for about 16hrs, 7am - 11pm (asleep for 7 hours before and after) and I could look forward to eating what I wanted the next morning.

It eneded up being a bit of a virtuous circle, so I felt like i didn't really want to pig out on the other days.

I did put it back on over the autumn/winter when I stopped and reduced my exercise as well. But imagine I would have kept it off if I'd gone over to 6:1

 hang_about 22 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

Motivation. Weighed myself for the first time in ages and realised I was way heavier than I thought. 12 stone 8 vs expected 11 ish stone. Shocked me. Mrs was supportive but she's a lightweight and wasn't joining in.

Cut down hugely on booze. 1 beer or 1 glass of wine per night on a weekend rather than the 2-3 which had become the norm. No snacking. No mid morning toast or evening cheese and crackers. Fruit if hungry. Cut down meal portion size. Ate more slowly.  Accept being hungry at times. No ice cream, cakes etc.

Long miles on the bike. Strava for seeing improvement.

Set up spreadsheet with 'fat b@stard' title. Weigh and complete once a week.

Dropped about 3lb a week. Stabilised at 10stone 11 so figure that's where I should be.

Slackened off iron rations but kept up booze control, portion size and bike. Seems sustainable and weight now steady over past few months.

 Mike-W-99 22 Jan 2021
In reply to mountain.martin:

We found when doing 5:2 that saving up during the day for dinner worked well. A bit of research is good for meals, it’s amazing how few calories are in some foods, Big pan of home made soup works well in winter, salads in summer. Anything that takes a while to eat I think Is good mentally when fasting.

OP bouldery bits 23 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

Thanks all.

The consistent thing seems to be avoiding processed stuff - especially processed sugar. 

This will be a priority for me. 

Thanks all for sharing your successes. 

BB

 stp 23 Jan 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

> I haven't read it yet, but I have seen good things said about this book and think it might be worth looking at


I've read it. Very good but more about general health and the current (2015) state of scientific knowledge regarding diet than weight loss specifically.

 Ed morris 23 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

I'd recommend endurance sports like cycling. Before I started cycling and running 4 years ago i'd sit at around 11 stone, currently post christmas (where I went all-in😋) im at a little under 10 stone aged 28. I personally weigh myself every morning. This lets me keep an eye on it so it never really 'creeps' up without me knowing about it. If I find i'm putting on weight I go for a slightly longer ride and/or cut out junk for a bit. My will power with dieting is fairly poor so if i'm a carrying around excess fat I prefer to put my body in a calorie deficit to a point where it would be quite uncomfortable on my digestive system to consume the calories burned. I have taken this too far in the past. Interestingly on the one occasion where I was unhealthily light my biking seriously suffered but climbing, specifically bouldering improved signficiantly. Though this is all anecdotal, for hard bouldering I felt brilliant but would struggle to get through a moderate intensity bike session...anyone other climbers/road cyclists experienced this? I wondered if this is how RED-S can develop in climbers who seem to be at the top of their game?        

Post edited at 21:03
In reply to bouldery bits:

Another vote for myFitnessPal. Easy to use and keep an eye on where you are throughout the day. I still allow myself the odd day of pigging out, but weight seems to be going down steadily 

 ThunderCat 23 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

Nearly nine months without any alcohol now and I've almost lost four stone. Its hard to say how much lard the alcohol actually accounted for because when I was tanked up I would lose any sort of restraint when it came to food, both quantity and quality. Now, I'm a lot more controlled.

The weight loss did level off for a couple of months, so I decided to go purely plant based mid December and it's started to drop off again. I find it was easier to snack on meat based food when I was out shopping... Just pick up a quick pasty or a pie of something. Now that I'm veggie there doesn't seem to be that immediate availability so I don't do it, which could also be contributing (and it never seems as naughty or forbidden to get a piece of fruit) 

 climbercool 24 Jan 2021
In reply to Ed morris:

> I have taken this too far in the past. Interestingly on the one occasion where I was unhealthily light my biking seriously suffered but climbing, specifically bouldering improved signficiantly. Though this is all anecdotal, for hard bouldering I felt brilliant but would struggle to get through a moderate intensity bike session...anyone other climbers/road cyclists experienced this? I wondered if this is how RED-S can develop in climbers who seem to be at the top of their game?        

its a very difficult question as to how much weight you should lose for optimal climbing, last year i temporarily lost 5kg and it was the best thing that i ever did for my climbing, i could have lost a further 7kg and still been in the healthy bmi range, would i have kept seeing gains, how do you know when you've gone to far and have lost too much weight?

 steve taylor 24 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

I'm late to this....

Intermittent fasting has worked/is working for me. A 16/8 pattern works best, where I only consume calories between midday and 8:00pm.  In normal conditions I also try to exercise at least 60 minutes per day too (walking, running, cycling). I have 1 or 2 days a week when I come off the fasting - mainly due to "social" reasons. At my worst I was 97kg - I'm now a much healthier 86kg. I was about 80kg when I was climbing well, 25 years ago.

It gets me down to a manageable weight (I've never been slim, ever) and then keeps me there.

I'm planning to semi-retire in a year or so, so it will be interesting if I can stick to this when I'm not distracted by work most of the day. On the positive, I'll be doing much more exercise each day through dog walking, cycling, DIY and possibly climbing!

Post edited at 06:48
 Linda Orritt 24 Jan 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

That’s so funny! Cheered me up no end. 
my new diet-here I come!

 Linda Orritt 24 Jan 2021
In reply to veteye:

That’s not good missing meals? The only thing that shifted my extra half stone, post the birth of my first daughter, was eating little and often. It seemed to speed my metabolism  up somehow. 
I now avoid processed/bleached sugars. Use organic in my cakes and eat lots of veg and seeds   There’s more protein in pumpkin seeds than minced beef - however!  There’s a heck of a lot of seeds to the pound!! 

 wbo2 24 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits: Cutting out bread made a big difference, and reducing processed sugar

 Ed morris 24 Jan 2021
In reply to climbercool:

It's a bit of a taboo subject currently, given the natural association with EDs. When I got down to 62kg I had a BMI of 19 which put me in the healthy weight category. However I felt under fuelled on long rides and found myself preoccupied with thinking about rich food. I think for endurance sports the BMI scale is a little off at the lower end of the healthy range. 

 1poundSOCKS 24 Jan 2021
In reply to Linda Orritt:

> That’s not good missing meals?

I think being in a fasted state is perfectly natural and healthy. Might even help if you've got a metabolic condition, like insulin resistance.

 toad 24 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

Snack police. I've dumped a stone and a half in lockdowns. Ironically because I've possibly been a bit more active, being forced to exercise from home and later on, picking up a hard, manual job as a stopgap.

But mostly with my wife at home, the half a loaf for elevenses,  and the variety of afternoon salted snacks dried up over night. No more naughty nibbles for me. And it worked a treat!

 Iamgregp 25 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

I'm no expert on these things, but I read a bit from somebody who is and he argues that all diets - whether they use fasting, restrictions of certain types of foods, meal replacement etc - all basically boil down to reducing calorific intake.*

He argued the best way to lose, and then continue to control weight is to find a way of reducing the amount of calories that you consume in a sustainable way that suits your lifestyle and tastes.

So some of the things mentioned - switching to plant based, reducing potion size, fasting etc could be the solution (or at least part of) for you what's important is changing your whole mindset and relationship with food.  Essentially what you're looking for is a permanent change to your diet (and exercise regime) that you enjoy and makes you feel good, rather than something you do on sufferance then give up on after a short while.

Sounds sensible to me.  But then I undo all that hard work by smoking and drinking beer every night.  

EDIT: Arguably the Keto diet isn't this, as far as I understand?

Post edited at 16:47
 Shani 25 Jan 2021
In reply to Iamgregp:

> I'm no expert on these things, but I read a bit from somebody who is and he argues that all diets - whether they use fasting, restrictions of certain types of foods, meal replacement etc - all basically boil down to reducing calorific intake.*

> He argued the best way to lose, and then continue to control weight is to find a way of reducing the amount of calories that you consume in a sustainable way that suits your lifestyle and tastes.

He is absolutely correct. A calorie deficit is required to lose weight. But to lose fat and maintain health you cannot simply reduce calories in all cases. Everyone knows this.

The kind of calories you cut (or rather the foods you maintain in your diet), are crucial, as is the size of the deficit & rate of fat loss.

Post edited at 16:51
 jack89 25 Jan 2021
In reply to Iamgregp:

I've found this guy pretty interesting and his nutritional framework is a good way to think about it:

https://peterattiamd.com/my-nutritional-framework/

I have success with TRF, low carb and high protein (but never keto).

Eating is too fun to long-term calorie restrict but, incidentally becomes a given if you stretch to say 20:4 TRF; that one meal is so filling. Saying that I think weight is often more about insulin response and timing of food vs activities/circadian rhythm than balancing calories with expenditure. Also worth a look is the Slow Carb diet from the 4HourBody, which is very sustainable.

 oldie 25 Jan 2021
In reply to bouldery bits:

Three meals a day. First eg just sugar free muesli, lunch small lump cheese + 3 biscuits plus fruit. Large meal in evening often meat or fish with loads of veg plus dessert eg mixed fruits plus low fat yogurt or shop tiramisu. Three pint mugs strong coffee, plus several pints of decaf coffee. Do have extra coffee and cream teas/cakes when out with wife but usually share the latter.

Last summer lucky to spend 2.5 months on coast. Had cream teas most days (purely to support local economy ) but still managed to lose weight and reach my light weight of 35 years ago (possibly partly largely due to loads of swimming with aqua mask involving getting quite cold, walking and scrambling). Have never done exercise for its own sake.

 Iamgregp 25 Jan 2021
In reply to Shani:

> He is absolutely correct. A calorie deficit is required to lose weight. But to lose fat and maintain health you cannot simply reduce calories in all cases. Everyone knows this.

> The kind of calories you cut (or rather the foods you maintain in your diet), are crucial, as is the size of the deficit & rate of fat loss.

Absolutely, in fact I wrote an extra paragraph on this but deleted it as I doubted my depth of knowledge on the subject, so just left it as a general point! 

There's people on here who know far, far more than me about these things (including you) so please forgive my reticence to answer in much depth.

 Iamgregp 25 Jan 2021
In reply to jack89:

Yeah that's an interesting way of looking at things isn't it?  Thanks for the link!


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