UKH

Cummings is due to gaslig- sorry, address, the nation later today.

First off, let's just note that this is INSANE. Special advisers do not hold press conferences and field questions. That is the role of elected officials. They are basically admitting that he is the government! This is nuts!

Sources inside the Tory Party/Westminster tell me that the most likely thing is that Cummings is going to 'reveal' that his child has autism. This, then, is likely a cynical ploy to try and buy sympathy to put the genie back in the bottle.

But the Daily Mail has turned. I don't think it will work.

That Johnson has decided to resign and, to look after the country in its time of need, Cummings has graciously agreed to be the new leader of the country.

He's just going to dig a bigger hole for himself. Also, it was announced some time ago. I wonder how long he will keep us all waiting. He's so grand (because as you say he is in effect the PM and the whole govt rolled into one) that it could be quite a while. He loves his self-appointed role of playing with us all as he wishes.

Agree that this is just going to create an even bigger bonfire. I decided to not go out today as it would just be busy everywhere, and am instead supposed to be here at home marking first year essays...but who can concentrate in the midst of such madness?!

Lies and self-justification; the stock in trade for such as Cummings.  

Yes, it's just so difficult to concentrate on one's work, isn't it, with all this continual crap going on, and getting worse by the day? I wonder just how much Johnson has cost the British economy (coronavirus apart) in lost productivity, by causing such continual angst and anger? An absolutely huge amount I suspect. I'm doing about half my usual amount of work.

I expect that they'll be very selective who they let in....

Secondly....lots more of the 'i was just being a devoted father' narrative....

Or maybe he'll be resigning.....innocent of course but not wanting to distract the govt from its wonderful handling of covid.

He's going to say very, very sorry, and tell us which service stations he recommends between London and Durham, and that he's resigning, and that he plans to get a job as a nurse next week in order to pay amends to society

Well, His Highness 'Grigori' Cummings has been an hour now.

The autistic child line appears to have fallen on stoney ground, I'm guessing that he will declare that he is autistic too.
 

He will not resign, not in a public appearance.

“I apologise if the Prime Minister feels I have in some way undermined the stay at home message. However the real scandal is the current media hysteria - a depressing example of the depths to which these dark and cynical souls will plunge, a malign enemy who are effectively seeking to deny an autistic child his right to care. This I can not forgive.”

that doesn't appear too far fetched. He seems to lack empathy, be preoccupied with a few niche ideas and have some communication issues.

The weird thing is not all his ideas are bonkers. Like data driven evidence regards balancing London and the regions. But he obviously has almost no capacity to think what other people might think (which is a theory of mind deficit) as opposed to knowing quite well what other people think / feel but not giving a toss or worse being please that they are sufferting  (which is psychopathy).

Inside sources: he's going to reveal that they all came out of the house and sat in the car.... then he set the Satnav for Asda in Croydon.... and then cor blimey gov'nor, they all ended up in Durham

You had me convinced until you mentioned Asda......Waitrose surely. 

" a friend told me that I really should visit the wonderful Durham Cathederal with its 66m spire"

Seems to work.

That's what it says in the rules* (they're allowed to make statements on behalf of ministers, but not to participate in 'controvesy' apparently).  But rules schmules, we all know they don't apply to him.

* - Cabinet Office Code of Conduct for Special Advisors:  https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/...

Interesting that on Saturday outside his house he told all the journos that “it didn’t matter what they thought”...now an address to the nation.  perhaps having millions of people thinking that he’s scum does matter....

Now scheduled very grandly (just like the PM or royalty) for 4.00 pm.

OK I can do one essay by 4pm. Come on. Get SOMETHING productive done today...!

I suspect you are pretty close. I have two kids on the spectrum and at no point have I used them as an excuse to break the law or do exactly the opposite of what I've told a whole nation to do.

Quite. 

I'd put money in it that somehow he'll be the hard done to victim.....playing to the blue rinse brigade.

I went on some tory party forums for a nose earlier to see what was being said....I was shocked by some of the 'bloggers', they are like a parody....I really didn't think people like that actually existed!

It is terrifying - but on the other hand, when you've got Tim Montgomerie and Iain Dale calling from him to go, and the ERG led by Baker out for his blood, I think his days are numbered.

He will be happy to resign..,...

and is looking forward to seat in the Lord's.

Replace the Thursday clap for key workers with a nationwide boo for someone who believes he is a key worker.

We are talking about a prime minister who illegally shut down parliament to serve his ends.
I am not sure why anybody finds this behaviour surprising.

One thing is sure; there is zero chance I would ever install an app created by a mate of Doms and run centrally by a government which has stated: "Trust us not to abuse your data".

I'm not surprised - I didn't expect him to sack Cummings yesterday!

Good point about the app. Previously I was prepared to download - now, much less so.

In the garden as well. No tedious rooms for our glorious unelected bureaucrat.

Assuming he can be arsed to turn up that is and hasnt got everyone waiting just to boost his ego.

Still waiting for His Highness. Now 15 mins late.

Whilst I would like to see DC resign, I think him staying on will prove more damaging to the current government and for the greater good. 

I was just musing yesterday that Durham is this year’s Salisbury 😃

Just shows how he treats people with contempt

I answered you factually but have now removed it.

Disrespect is the order of the day, it seems... still waiting...

Still waiting.  .  . 

His son isn't autistic.

His wife isn't a special needs teacher. She is a journalist who wrote a fictitious story for the Spectator about them isolating in London when they were in Durham.

Many parents with autistic children have respected the lockdown rules.

Oh my god this is unbelievable! 25 minutes late - they just hold us in total and utter contempt don’t they!?

Are we being jilted at the altar? 

He's stuck in traffic on the A1 south...

Is it just possible that Johnson has told him at the last moment that he must resign? Or is that too optimistic? Now 25 minutes late. 

... now 30 mins. I'm really thinking it's possible because there has probably been an endless series of angry phone calls to Downing Street from Conservative MPs.

So Cumming's sister, the alleged childcare person, is also a director of IDOX the company which

a. has the contract for postal votes system

b. got the contract for Covid track and trace app.

These Brexiteer f*ckers aren't even trying to look legitimate.  It's Putin style crony capitalism.

https://twitter.com/Snewsma/status/1264815843889864704

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/01/07/why-did-cabinet-office-rush-through-proc...

The autistic community will be furious if he does try it. 

Maybe doing a Reggie Perrin, leaving clothes on a beach somewhere in the northeast. Only to turn up selling us Grot in a few months time.

Or with the main (Covid) briefing at five, he’ll leave it late enough to deliver his statement but won’t have time to answer any questions? 

That appears to be refuted in-thread (she doesn't seem to actually be his sister).

Let's be careful to stick to the verified truth in such accusations - otherwise, it makes much easier for him and his supporters to cast doubt on all criticism of him.

My god, he's digging an abyss for himself ... loads of totally irrelevant facts, and weak arguments ... and the creep is wanting us to feel sorry for him. It's a tale of all the Cummings family have been suffering ... And they DID go to Barnard Castle ... He's going to get torn to SHREDS when it comes to questions ...

Unless they vote Tory.. We are already seeing the posts like "young girl raped and british press only care about caring father visiting kids" bullshit. These guys are Teflon.

I dont seem to recall the kid being in hospital from his wifes story.

Bojo's supporters will lap it up though. It's just like watching Trump and US Politics. Positions are now so established people want a way out, he's offering them some bullshit they will willingly buy into.

I'm hanging in there for the questions...

The robot nearly generated tears. 

I hate everything he is and stands for. 

he did it solely for the good of the country. who could have thought otherwise...

I lost count of the number of lies and contradictions. 

Didnt lose count of the counts of contrition though: they total a big fat zero

Legal rules do not cover all circumstances.

LOL 

No apology, no regrets, I'm the victim here.  Boo hoo.  

Nothing he said about the situation makes his actions acceptable.  

Laura Cu**ssberg for the easy ride. What a surprise.

Exactly my thoughts, didn't exactly make it hard for him... 

Are we supposed to believe that he thought it was necessary to drive to Barnard Castle to test his driving abilities.  

Wasn't the trip to B. Castle denied yesterday? 

Now he says they did go.

Edit - just checked - it seems they neither confirmed or denied it, just avoided answering. 

Oh now it is the media's fault if this encourages lockdown breaking. 

It's the media's fault that people are angry.  

he is very keen on blaming the media.

Indeed. It's not that he done it, it's that the big bad media covered it.

As an aside. What a bloody awful, stuttering speaker he is. He pains my ears.

Crap questions....someone needs to scrutinise his statements publicly....poor journalism from bbc...

kuensberg doesnt want to lose her "source in number 10".

I'm grateful to you all for enduring this press conference. I fear my TV would not survive if I actually watched it...

He thought his wife had covid, and he had been exposed, but then went back to Downing Street, breaking the rules. At work he thought he had been exposed from colleagues.....but kept on going back to work.  No concept of trying to break the chain!

He went outside of the cottage while he was infectious, breaking 'the don't go out'.......but its Ok if you own large areas of land because its 'privately owned'.

He was sick at home, but drove to the hospital

He then tried driving later on because he was unsure he was fit to do so, and was sick while doing so, and drove miles away from home while he believed he was potentially infectious. Furthermore he was suffering eye sight problems and got behind the wheel.

The Highway code is very strict about driving while ill, or thinking you might become ill and with eye-sight problems.

But he's going to get away with it!

He isn't going to apologise in any way whatsoever is he.  

Nope. 

In reply to

Nearly as bad as Peston😂

He did not consider resigning.  He believes he didn't do anything wrong.  

"Not a danger to the public" 

Really? 

Same boat here, rather than listening to a series of bent truths and downright lies I would rather get the edited key points from UKC. 

It's so creepy and so unapologetic that surely Johnson's government it finished now? This is an absolute disaster (for them). I think it will played again and again through history, like 'peace for our time'. It could probably just be run as a straight short horror movie in cinemas for years to come and still get bums on seats because of the sheer creepiness of it.

Particularly when he went for some kind of test drive with potentially dodgy eyesight and feeling crap....

On his wifes birthday to a beauty spot.

Was he wheeled out on a sack trolley, in a strait jacket and hockey mask...?

Any mention of Chianti and fava beans yet...?

I wish I could share your optimism in this respect Gordon but I fear they will just consider this job done and (after all it was all the nasty media’s fault) move on. It’s also proven to be an excellent distraction from the terrible eu negotiations that are currently happening - a win win for Cummings as we creep towards the “no deal” that he wants. 

YES! Someone finally asked about the speccy article. The mendacious smell of lie diarrhoea cloys with each utterance. 

Don't forget herd immunity...

Remember kids, answering questions leads to confusion. I shall definitely use that. 

God journalists are crap:

1) You had been exposed, why did you go back to No.10?

2) What would have happened if you had fell ill on the journey up, you knew the disease could develop rapidly?

3) You felt unsure of your ability to drive, why did you even get behind the wheel?

4) Why did you get behind the wheel with eyesight problems?

and so on

God our media is crap. 

i could have destroyed him in 3 questions:

1. why did you go back to work after you wife developed symptoms thus breaking lockdown regulations?

2. So you admit you made an unnecessary journey to Barnard Castle and thus broke the regulations you designed?

3. Why did you need to test your driving when you just said you already drove to the hospital a few days earlier?

this is simple stuff. Come on ffs 

No apology.

Nothing.

"I was right. "

What a prick.

Yup! You got there first!

He is seriously trying to say he has done nothing wrong, he is a victim, everyone will understand he is doing his best, he did what was best.  

Absolutely pathetic.  

I agree with him - they were reasonable calculations in difficult circumstances. 

Ha ha ha ha

Let me add some:

Why could he not stay in Durham?

Advice is to work from home if possible, what is it he does exactly that makes it impossible? 

What is the reason he needs to be in London physically?

I’d have liked one of them to ask him if he felt in any way responsible for the lack of inaction early on and his “herd immunity” theory that led to the death of his uncle? 

I hesitate to admit this, but I think he is acquitting himself rather well. But then I thought the same about the Prince Andrew interview and few agreed with me on that. Both giving straight answers to straight questions rather than avoiding them in a way that is almost refreshing. Of course, how honest those answers are is a separate matter.

Remember the Thatcher years Gordon. 

There won't be any votes of no confidence, the best we could hope for is a leadership challenge but that won't happen.

They've got four years for people to forget this.

Sadly I think you’re right. This government have never ever been held to account for anything. 

Apparently it's not his second home.  But he does co own it.

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/17830289.dominic-cummings-hypocritic...

I may be wrong, but I think the apostrophe makes that the cricket ground.

Wow.  You have a very different view.  

He (as well as Prince Andrew) is clearly bullshitting.  

Do you really believe that story about testing his driving?  He was out for a nice day.

He is giving the answers he wants based on what he has been told to say.  

You must be F...ING joking, Robert. It's an all-time multiple car crash ... I normally respect your views, but ... [sorry, I almost can't speak, this thing makes me so angry]

That's why I hesitated to express it. 

I didn't say I did.

Now all the tory MPs are tweeting about what a devoted Daddy he is.  

The Thatcher years were very bad indeed, but still NOTHING like this. We're in a vortex of extreme horror now.

A straight answer to a straight question very strongly implies that he is being straight ie telling the truth.  

No, I'm afraid I'm not joking. I feel almost exactly as I did about the Prince Andrew interview - either he is being honest and is conducting himself with great dignity under extreme pressure, or else he is a remarkably accomplished liar; either way, an impressive performance.

Edit: There's someone on the telly right now who seems to take a similar view to me.

Well done for having the courage to express your opinion.

Especially knowing the hostile reception that you are likely to receive.

Sorry, no. I simply meant that he didn't duck any questions.

I think you’re right in that he’s being honest. He honestly believes that he was right in doing what he did. This is what entitlement looks like.

I thought he made the best of a poor hand. He seemed more human than his usual representation by the media particularly when he's leaving his house in beanie and sunglasses. 

Is there any evidence for his house being targeted? Before yesterday that is.

Another visit by Russian tourists to various London locations wouldn't bother me in the slightest

edit: spotted this earlier: https://twitter.com/MrJoeGooch/status/1264852936900911104

Yes, he almost came across as quite likeable. It's genuinely really quite confusing. 

The media are practically all Tory and they absolutely love Cummings for putting them into power.So he gets caught being naughty/breaking the unwritten law and they must be seen to give him a slap on the wrists in their Tory papers, some of which will come over all indignant and demand action (in line with the masses on this) which forces him into a press conference populated by adoring Tory journalists (?) who love him. Media(90% Tory) then report this and soften by giving him a ticking off then draw a line under it and quickly move on to the next story. 

Basically the Tories hold all the cards as they are the media, who dictate what becomes news and what doesn't and it isn't going to be bringing down one of their heros.They only gave him a ticking off and put on a wee show for the rightfully pissed off masses because he was caught red handed and it couldn't be covered up. 

Normally, in a situation like this your lawyer would tell you to STFU because everything you say will get compared against the laws you may have broken and give the police/prosecution starting points for formal questions.

Seems to me that he's admitted a string of offences and he's either sure the Tory establishment will protect him or he doesn't care about paying the fine.

Think I might be slightly drunk, just going for a quick drive to check....

oh yes, very drunk

I've got to come back to you on this. It was just about the most creepily chilling thing I've ever seen on any media in my entire life. He just about tops Norman Bates (Anthony Perkins) in Psycho. (I'll keep watching and watching it as a horror movie, when I'm in the mood to be deeply scared)

Not really. Some careful coaching.

Is it your wifes birthday and are you heading to a beautyspot with your kid in the back? If so crack on otherwise what are you doing you nutter?

Your post could be construed as gaslighting. Bore off.

You think the sex trafficked girl that accused Andy was lying because he said in that interview that he couldn't sweat at that time so it couldn't have been him that had sex with her? You think that was someone aquitting themself well?

Thank God your not a judge. 

He reminds me of Duke from Doonesbury 

https://www.google.com/search?q=duke+from+doonesbury&oq=duke+from+doon&... 

Why? 

No. Read what I wrote about how I felt about both the Cummings and Prince Andrew interviews.

F*ck me you're easily impressed. I did a v diff once you know.

Edit, I think you're playing this well - you got me🙂

Why would he care about the fine?  Fines are so rich people can do what they like. 

London parking for example.  Do they care if they get a £50 parking fine?  No. 

... Furthermore he was suffering eye sight problems and got behind the wheel.

I trust the Durham Constabulary will take his admission (or should that be confession) on national TV into account during the investigation required by their Police Commissioner.

I can only hope. 

I hate to admit it, but I thought he did rather well. Does not change my opinion of my hatred of what he has done to our country, though.

Sorry, i can't remember that converstion

He said that he didn't contact his boss the Prime Minister as Johnson was ill and he didn't want to bother him.

He didn't however contact anyone else it would seem, or else he would have said so.

Now Raab was standing in for Johnson at the time - why didn't he at least contact him to tell him that he was off sick (and NOT at home !). Seems that Cummings believes that he answers to no-one except (maybe ?) Johnson.

What would happen to any other EMPLOYEE if they went off sick and told no-one ??

Brave of you coming on here and departing from the required venomous viewpoint.

Proper witch-dunking.

Hasn’t the Barnard Castle jont previously been denied?

I thought I heard Boris saying yesterday, he’d gone to Durham and stayed put. I don’t recall any mention of going for an eye test...

I think he neither confirmed nor denied it.

Isn't this the key point thought?  Delivering lies and bullshit well is indeed skilful but when it's this brazen doesn't that immediately make it poorly delivered? 

I actually think he is deliberately taking the piss and demonstrating he is untouchable   - driving while to a beauty spot, with your family under lockdown and claiming it's to test your eyesight...

The way he evaded every question, and absolutely refused to apologise for anything. His trick the whole time was to admit he'd 'made mistakes in the past' and when the rather sharp reporters asked them what those might be, he had the extraordinary stock answer that 'it was not for him to say'. Not an ounce of remorse or contrition, and this extremely devious way of never giving a straight answer, and always twisting it round and blaming the media. And remarkably aggressive. Whenever a reporter simply asked a question saying e.g. the public think there's one rule for you and another rule for them, he often answered, bluntly, almost smugly: 'I don't agree.'  And no, he hadn't broken the spirit of his own guidelines. Just a blunt 'No.' When asked if he had ever offered to resign, he said: 'No, I have not offered to resign.' Have you ever at least considered it? 'No, I've not considered it.'

Just mind-boggling. 

I think you have Trump derangement syndrome, to coin a phrase.

Indeed. What annoys me most is the following: 

1. He's undermined the states tool for keeping us safe,  namely the police and the NHS. PM Johnson is employed by us to ensure these are run properly. Both have already criticised him publicly. 

2. You know how small kids make up stories to fit events that are clearly untrue,  and can't understand how their parents know they are lying. I don't like being lied to.  I a find it more offensive than the original issue. 

Can I suggest everyone writes to their MP right now?  The only way he is going if is Tory MPs come out against him.  I wrote to mine yesterday and got a holding reply - waiting for all the facts etc. - which is apparently being copy and pasted from in many similar letters.  There is clearly unease.  Further letters after this shit-show will influence MPs' opinions and actions.  I have just written again.

I don't usually contribute to these political forums (not that I'm saying C19 is political) - but I imagine this is how it went down?

I don't think he actually said he was right; he said he made a series of decisions with the best of intentions at the time and that he understood why might people might see some of them as mistakes. I think I find it credible that that might be the case in the most part, though I think there has to be a serious question mark over the trip to Barnard Castle.

It was very intriguing (and presumably honest) that he did several times say that he had made mistakes over the last few months - it would be interesting to know what they are.

Failing to see the connection here.  

During lockdown i climbed once on a walk. If this cummings story had come out when it happened. I wouldnt have been sat at home on those glorious grit days. Id have been out climbing.

They have totally destroyed any idea of a lockdown now. 

Have you even bothered to listen to what he said? He admitted he'd gone to Barnard Castle. His argument was that it was on the last day of his holiday and he needed to go for a test drive. He stopped by the river (probably the very place I went to about 18 months ago). It was obviously a completely unnecessary journey. He said it was 'on the way back', but, sorry, it's not (from Durham to London) - it's about 15 miles due west of the A1(M). A massive detour for no good reason.

I was referring to what Johnson said yesterday, not Cummings today.

He didnt say he was going to London. He just said he went for a drive to test whether he could drive a longer distance and just happened to end up there on the way back from his test drive.

Your answer there is absolutely spot on. Particularly the way he sounded like a small child or schoolboy trying lie his way out of admitting he'd done something wrong, once he'd been found out.

Yes, I said he at one point described it as a 'test drive'. He then, later said, 'it was one the way back'. Don't ask me to explain his contradictions!

You honestly think

"I was worried that my eyesight had gone weird, and that is why I drove with my family to Barnard Castle half an hour away" 

is a good answer?

Stop smoking crack!

Remember this? : https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/off_belay/do_as_i_say-717907?v=1#x9169269

OK, let's pursue that a bit further. It's surely a very long 'test drive' from Durham? At least 30 miles in an L shape. (60 miles there and back). He just happened to turn off the AI and end up in BC 15 miles to the west??

As I said earlier, he later seemed to contradict himself by saying they stopped there on their way back (to London)

Surely the excuse for the Barnard Castle trip is risible:  I broke the lock down rules to commit a road traffic offence. 

Let me rephrase that: He honestly believes he had the right to do what he did.

Since there appears to be some confusion, can I please, as an optical professional be absolutely clear:

If you are worried that there has been a sudden change to your vision due to illness, please contact an eyecare professional who will be able to provide advice. DO NOT, and I repeat for the avoidance of any doubt, DO NOT drive your family to Barnard Castle, or any where else.

Thanks for clearing that up.

and on his wifes birthday and they just happened to find a carpark and go for a walk. Yes its complete and utter bollocks but designed to be just believable enough to deal with the fact he was caught by eyewitnesses.

I dont recall that. he did seem clear it was to have a day out, sorry test drive a day or so before the drive back to London.

Let's not even get to the phrase 'test drive'.

I repeat. If you are worried about your vision, seek advice from a professional, and under no circumstances should you attempt to drive.

He didn't evade any questions - he gave an absolutely straight account of his movements and straight answers to all questions about it (though as I said earlier, by "straight" I don't necessarily mean honest)

 > ........absolutely refused to apologise for anything. ...........Not an ounce of remorse or contrition.

I would not expect somebody to apologise for something while at the same time not admitting they had done anything wrong. Rather obviously!

He simply said that a lot of the anger was based on reporting of things by the media which he claimed were untrue, so why wouldn't he blame the media for that?

Why would he agree when he was, at the same time, claiming he hadn't broken any rules?

Well presumably that simply means he hasn't offered or considered offering to resign. Straight answers to straight questions.

I know somebody who's met him and thought he was quite a nice bloke. He might be.

The point is he made a massive error of judgement and then possibly, probably, took the piss by going out for a drive with his wife. 

If he had said he was sorry this afternoon I think most would have understood and forgiven him. The focus would then have changed to his boss who still should have sacked him.

Instead though he said he was right and thus implied everyone else was wrong. 

Arsehole.

Also when asked if he'd left the farm on any other occasions he couldn't stop blinking and got very nervous. I think he was lying.

The left think that the media favour the right and the right think that the media favour the left.  Political blinkers appear to stunt peoples ability to think clearly and logically.

Do you honestly believe his claim about his drive on his wifes birthday to a beauty spot was as a test drive?

There is always an apologist for those in power who do wrong. Sad. 

Pretty sure the phrase “stayed put”, was used.

Yes, I do remember it. In that case I don't think anybody, including Calderwood, ever claimed that there were any mitigating circumstances.

Ok, you may be right.

I think that the Barnard Castle point has been denied but I can't remember who it was that said it.  I suspect that Cummings doesn't know who he has shot in the foot either.

On the balance of probabilities, no.

As I said in an earlier post, I think there is a serious question mark over it.

I think that they might have got away with it if they had wheeled him out like this last week, but that they probably did themselves far too much damage over the weekend by trying to shield him and defend his actions. I suspect that some will have been revealed as liars by the account he gave this evening.

Wouldn't you come up with a better story if you were going to lie about it?

Such as?

Like what? There was no valid reason so that seems to be the best one he could come up with to confuse the matter when he knew he couldnt dodge the eyewitnesses.

"It is absolutely vital that all of us continue to observe the rules”

Quote from the PM 15 mins ago....seems like we are in the middle of an episode of The Thick of It 

It’s the eyesight stupid !

Got it - because of his poor eye sight DC couldn’t read the rules but was able to drive okay

“Believe there is leeway for extenuating circumstances.  Yet another media circus drummed up by the left to demonise and vilify the right - sad. I commend Cummings on his presser and full transparency, hope it catches on up here but won’t hold my breath #chamberofsecrets “

My partner is an ex Civil Servant who worked at the DforE when Cummings was there, the impression that I get from her was not those who worked there did not think "he was quite a nice bloke". Quite the contrary in fact.

It is a nightmare, really. I sometimes can't believe it's really happening and that government spokesmen can be talking so much such inconsistent and incoherent rubbish – by the day. I used to think, perhaps it's all a bad dream, and if I bang my head against a brick wall I'll suddenly return to the relatively decent world I once knew. But I've come to accept that this shitty, that the world we're now dominated by is the hard reality we are now in, with the extraordinary misfortune to be governed by a bunch of exceptionally dangerous liars. The only thing I can see that Johnson and his cabinet are good at is lying. That's the one and only thing they're really good at. Minute by minute, hour by hour.

They had a day and a half to concoct a plausible excuse for breaking the government guidelines by travelling to Barnard Castle. The best they could come up with is that he was breaking some other government guidelines. And people nod and say ah ok, that's alright then.

I genuinely think this might send my mental state, already tenuous due to months of lockdown, over the edge.

Jase

"The only thing I can see that Johnson and his cabinet are good at is lying. "

I think it's more than that, we know they are lying, but people just refuse to see them. Trump has lied (false or misleading claims) something like 20,000 times in 3.5 years, yet people will look you in face and say 'name one lie', you mention ten off hand and they say none of them were lies.

We are really living in some post factual world.

I guess it depends on your definition of good at lying. For me it would be someone who can fool me convincingly whereas these clowns just make shit up and brazen it out.

Drearily predictable. Late as a powerplay. Every accusation someone else's fault (protestor, press, wife, child, trespassers implied to avoid mentioning public rights of way). Press undermining public trust by reporting his actions, not him by taking them. Anyone else could have done what he did, if we've been suffering complying with the spirit and the letter of restrictions more fool us. Empty house not second home. Ill, not Ill with covid when they travelled. Selective appeal to some experts (unnamed), dismissal of others. Partial truths, some dragged up in questions. Perfect and hazy recollections just where you'd expect them. Inconvenient easily checked details not checked, smooth highly prepared lawyerly argument blended with dog ate my homework piss taking. Smarmy little prick.

It's not enough to save his skin IMO but the papers may be placated or muzzled behind the scenes. We'll see in the morning. I can see the government trying to stifle this by force (D notices and blackmail, sorry, arm-twisting) 'for public health reasons'. 

Jk

I think it will all come down to whether solid evidence emerges that the Barnard Castle story is nonsense. If so, he's now obviously finished. If not, I think he'll survive. 

I wrote to mine twice and got no reply....mind you that was just to tell her how pissed off I was, I never asked any questions. 

There is no question mark.

When you go for a 'test drive', it is to test whether there are any faults with the vehicle. 

When there may be faults with your eyesight, you go for an 'eye test' - at the moment, that means seeking advice over the phone.

There is no ambiguity in this matter.

Of course it's nonsense.... 100%. 

Well that is what you should do. But I think it is perfectly conceivable that someone might have gone for a drive to see how his eyes were when driving, even if it is was foolish thing to do. I don't think it is clear cut that it is a lie.

I'd put it at about 80%.  100% requires proof.

OK, he's either lying, or a wreckless idiot who shouldn't be advising the PM. 

I don't care which, do you?

TBH I'd be worried what else is going on.

He's staying in the press when he could just get his head down and ignore this and it would die down. Again, like Trump, when they do something like this there is often something more serious going on out of sight.

I think it makes a massive difference. One is not directly relevant to his official position, the other is absolutely relevant.

Anyway, the driving with dodgy eyes might not be all that wreckless. Maybe he wanted to see how they were after about half an hour driving if the problem he was getting was after a similar time at a computer screen or whatever - his wife could have taken over if it were a problem.

How could anyone prove 100% he is lying through 'evidence'? what I know 100% for sure is that you do not need to drive 30 miles to check your eyes are OK to drive.

It's quite frankly so absurd that it has to be a lie.... 

A witness in Barnard Castle with something incompatible with his story.

See my last post.

I've written to mine twice too, and had no reply. Once yesterday and again this eve. I asked him to join the calls for Cummings to resign (1st email) and then to join the calls for his sacking (2nd email) as he clearly won't resign.

My mp is an ex ukip local branch founder who joined the tories to 'get brexit done'. In fact he is 'workington man' (That's one of the towns he represents). He got in because of all the votes 'lent' to Johnson (pick-pocketed more like) so I doubt very much if he will be rebelling. At least I've made him know how I feel. Much good it will do. 

There's none so blind as them that won't look.

That's the thing with Cummings' press conference. He didn't need to come up with a story that will be believed by his critics, he just needs something that can't be disproved and that sounds plausible enough that people who want to believe it can, meaning that believing it or not believing it becomes an ideological issue. His story today is obviously concocted to do just that, plus a bit of red meat in the claims of harassment and lies in the media. Oh, and chuck in a sick kid for the pity factor too. And now the press have had their chance to question Cummings directly then Johnson will feel justified in ignoring further questions on it in the press briefings. So he'll get away with it, the government will get away with it and whatever political capital they've burnt this weekend will just be forgotten about in 4 years time when it comes to the next election.

What so several people all carefully timing their meetings with him to show he was talking shit?

So he could have stayed local to try it. Hell he lives on a farm so could probably spend the time just driving its own tracks if it is anything like round here.

However instead he drove a long distance to a beauty spot. On his wifes birthday.

Then just happened to need to exit the car for a while.

Sorry anyone who doesnt piss themselves with laughter and immediately assume thats a lie until proved otherwise is deluded or ideologically driven.

In Barnard Castle?

In my opinion you are coming across as ridiculous in.your arguments....sorry to be so blunt about it.

He's lied and lied again to try and get out of it....its really not complicated.

I am surprised less has been made of the words in the official guidance which underpin this entire affair.

In https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-stay-at-home-guidance/s..., we read:

"If you are living with children

"Keep following this advice to the best of your ability, however, we are aware that not all these measures will be possible.

"What we have seen so far is that children with coronavirus (COVID-19) appear to be less severely affected. It is nevertheless important to do your best to follow this guidance."

The entire thrust of the rest of that document is that you must stay at home if you think you have the infection. Cummings's claim is that the 'If you are living with children' section sanctions his actions. I am left wondering what the purpose of that section is. Which 'measures' did the framers of that document anticipate might not 'be possible' for people living with children?

The journey from Cummings acres to Barny is not direct, and very "technical". If you go the "satnav" route down the a167 and along the a689, you encounter your 12th roundabout at west auckland, only half way. By then you know whether you are ok to drive or not. The alternative route is on much smaller roads, and to end up at the only places i can think of that are so close to the river as to fit his description would mean they have gone the scenic route or all the way through Barny.

If he was ok to work, but 250 miles from home, given his position and what else was going on at the time in No 10, why couldnt Durham Police provide transport back to london for him? I'm sure it could be arranged under the circumstances

The rest of his stuff? I've actually no real problem with him admitting he broke the rules to protect his child - in the face of such a disease, I might do the same; if it jeopardises my job, then so what? My children have always been more important than my job, and he isn't exactly on his uppers. If he gets sacked, he can find another job. I do have a huge problem with the weaseling around the interpretation of the rules.

And it leads to bigger questions; why did No 10 previously confirm that he isolated in London? Is it that they have dishonesty as plan A?

I would say that both lying and being a wreckless idiot are both highly relevant to his political position, and I don't understand why you think otherwise.

That doesn't make any sense. Either you have a problem with your eyes and you don't drive, or you don't have sufficient problem with your eyes to concern you about driving. 

There is no such thing as a problem with your eyes which you investigate by driving your family to Barnard Castle. I cannot be more clear. That isn't a thing - it's a lie.

Well I'm certainly not ideologically driven and I don't think I'm deluded - I am just trying to take a rational, unprejudiced view of his story

The way I see it is that anyone who cannot entertain the possibilty that he might not be lying has probably decided in advance that he was going to lie.

As I explained, I don't take the view that the driving necessarily makes him a wreckless idiot.

Well you need educating about driving safety then. You check your eyes using a number plate at 20m before you get into the vehicle, you don't put your family in the vehicle, set off, and see what happens.

I don't know what you're talking about, Robert. You obviously didn't bother to listen to what Cummings actually said. I'm going to put it in capitals (sorry) because it's as if you don't want to know the truth. This was ONE thing that Cummings did admit, that THEY DID TAKE THAT TRIP TO BARNARD CASTLE.

His explanations for it were almost non-existent. There was a ridiculous one about a 'test drive'. They seemed to go there for a fun day trip, as tourists, for no particular purpose. He even described where they stopped and sat by the river (a spot I happen to have visited myself about 18 months ago)

Thanks. I am perfectly willing to read anything which affects the balance of probbilities in my mind as to whether he was lying or not.

Ah yes. So a long drive on his wifes birthday to a beauty spot is a perfectly sensible way to check if you are capable of driving safely for any distance. 

Or arent complete idiots. I will grant that there might be a 1 or 2% chance he isnt lying but the chances are pretty f*cking minimal and certainly dont reach double figures.

Look, I have no wish to get into a massive slanging match on here about this. I've already said that on balance I think he was probably lying and I've already put forward a reason that seems plausible to me why he might conceivably have driven without undue recklessness. 

Yes, of course I know that and I have not suggested otherwise. I listened intently to every word. I am simply saying that I am prepared to entertain the possibility that he wasn't lying about the reason for the trip.

It's not a slanging match. You are wrong that driving for half an hour with your family in the car is not wreckless if you are worried about your eyesight.

I make it 14 by there - you can't turn right out of Cummings Acres, you have to go left and do a u-turn at the Cock of the North roundabout.  Well, technically it's not quite a roundabout as it's got a give-way on it at one point, but it's as good-as.  There's also a new roundabout at the Honest Lawyer turning.  Although it does depend a bit on where you decide West Auckland starts.  It's long been a mystery to me why that particular route has so many roundabouts; I keep hoping the old railway line cycleway will get extended from Bishop to Barney.  

Yes, the absurdity of his explanation needs repeating. He said he went on a test drive to see if his eyesight was up to it. And went 30 miles!! If your eyesight's not OK, don't you stop after about 200 yards?

This is going to turn very esoteric for anyone else but you and I  !!

I'd forgotten about the going up to the cock o'the north.....so;

That one,

honest lawyer,

croxdale

tudhoe

spenny

middlestone

park head

bracks farm

south church

Bish aldi

tindale

sainsbury's

lloyds

A68

oakley

Shit, thats 15......

Edit - its got so many so me and youth can get our pegs down whilst making decent progress home from Durham Climbing Centre

Edit 2 - you can cycle to Barny from Bish partly / mostly on old tracks / bridleways. Nice ride, but not as track like as the Brandon Bish railway one.

Obviously you don't set off at all if it's not ok at that moment. I presume the idea is, as I said earlier, that he was worried it might not be ok after focussing on driving for half an hour or whatever (the, to me, possible plausible reason I gave earlier is that he had been having issues after half an hour at a computer)

You don't get in the car, you check to see if you can read the number plate from 20m. His story is that he took the drive to test his eyesight. I can assure you, that is not how an eye test is performed, it is most certainly done while stationary, in all circumstances.

He did not claim that he felt a bit dodgy, got the family in the car, and then noticed his eyesight seemed strange.

And how, then, does that fit within the very clear guidelines of 'Stay at Home' etc, that he himself drew up?

I'm thinking of all those sad, silly people who obeyed the rules, and weren't for example able to go to their father's funeral, who could have have got round it quite simply by saying they'd been having 'issues after half an hour at a computer' (your wording).

You normally talk good sense, Robert. What on earth has got into you?

If your eyesight is dodgy, you don't test it by going for a drive. He could have just stared into the distance for half an hour. Especially considering the size of the property he was in.

Only so far as, if he was, as he claimed, justified in driving to Durham in the first place, he was justified in driving back, and, to do that, he needed to check that his eyes were ok to do so.

You're talking like Cummings or Johnson now. Just waffling, but completely contradicting the lockdown guidelines that were then in place (and had been drawn up by the arch-hypocrite himself).

Don't get me wrong, I watched the briefing hoping that Cummings would so badly incriminate himself beyond all doubt that he would be forced to resign, take down Johnson with him, that we would have a competent government of national unity within a week, that the Brexit transition period would be indefinitely extended with Brexit eventually reversed and that an eventual public enquiry would lead, in the end, to both Cummings and Johnson serving long jail sentences. Instead I was disturbed to find that, if I set aside the fact that I passionately despise Cummings for his part in Brexit, he came across as rather likeable and that his story was just about credible enough that he is probably off the hook. 

It gets more and more sickly amusing, this. So presumably his eyesight was 100% OK 15 days earlier when he drove up to Durham, but suddenly he had doubts after just a fortnight? He suggests that wasn't at all sure whether he could see 100% OK, so decided the only way he could find out was to get in his car and drive quite a long way (30 miles to a beauty spot to be make quite sure, and taking his wife and child with him. Perhaps they'd be able to help him make up his mind whether his eyesight was good enough for him to drive?) Further damning point: it's now clearly established that his wife is an experienced driver with perfect eyesight, so their ability to travel was never an issue in the first place.

I can see where you're coming from and I think you're getting a bit of unwarranted flack. I loathe the bloke and there was very little he could've said today that would've persuaded me that he acted legitimately and should keep his job. I listened to the press conference and I was completely unconvinced by his obviously confected statement. But if I didn't have strong feelings about Cummings and I wanted an excuse to give the guy the benefit of the doubt then maybe I might be able to persuade myself he was on the level, especially if the attacks on him look politically motivated, though it's difficult to tell as I struggle to imagine what it would be like to have a positive (or even neutral) perception of the current government. It remains to be seen whether this has swayed enough public opinion for it to drop out of the news cycle - the Mail still seem unimpressed and he's certainly wound up Mumsnet...

So I’m no better at correcting roundabout mistakes than grammer mistakes...

Which is itself the inferior of the three old railway rides that meet at Broompark.  IMHO.  My preferred cycle south of Bish is the old roman road of Dere Street.

I’m afraid to say that I think you’ve absolutely nailed it here. 

If you assume he was being honest though, are you left with anywhere to go other than declaring him thick as two short planks and utterly unfit for his role?  Some reasons, not exhaustive

• Enough was known about viral load effects at the time of their infected journey that it seems clear this is about as high a viral risk as they could have exposed the child to.
• He couldn’t think of any way to arrange help for childcare if needed despite expecting 10 million other families to do exactly that
• It never occurred to him that his actions could undermine the efforts of the government he serves - if it had, he wouldn’t have been spotted locally in various places away from his temporary residence, by multiple people (*)
• He thought driving 30 miles with his family in the car was an appropriate way to test his eyesight.

If taken as truth, it’s a liturgy of dumb decisions that show him to be utterly unfit for his role.

(*) - Watch this space?

I've watched the press conference. I'd say that Cummings has played a very clever move. Not that the story adds up, but he's sown just enough of an element of doubt. Moreover, he's turned the blind fury into a forensic examination of his precise claims about his whereabouts and motives, which will calm the anger and turn many people off. It doesn't matter that his story is full of holes, so long as he's taken the immediate sting out of it. The government, of course, is not remotely concerned with honesty and integrity and will hope the furore will die down in a few days.

That, plus the implication of the press in his motivation and the "think of the children" appeals to emotion.

I bet the eyesight thing was the first shit he could come up with and decided a) the more unlikely the lie, the better and b) he was time-limited in formulating a story.

Reckless or not it was totally unjustified under the instructions to not undertake travel unless necessary.  If his wife could take over at any point, she could have done so on the return journey to London, no need for a dry run.  

Thankyou

I think the idea was that Covid had left him with the eye issue. At least this is what Johnson seemed to corroborate in his own briefing later - not, of course, that that counts for much. Indeed, if this turns out to have absolutely no medical basis, it will not look at all good for Johnson either. 

I don't see it that way.

1. No one believes him, the lies are blatant. The public are furious: "my second home is really scruffy".

2.The right wing press hate him: "what planet are you on?"

3. The civil service will do everything in their power to humiliate the gvt (did you see the tweet?)

3, The backbenchers loath him and will continue to demand he goes

4. Starmer will crucify Johnson over it

That doesn't look like a stable position to me.

There is no medical basis.

In that case I hope Johnson's remark gets picked up on.

I came down with conjunctivitis a few months ago.  I called 111 to get an out of hours appointment at the local hospital.  One of the things the phone operator made clear was that under no circumstances was I to drive myself to the appointment with an eye issue.

If DC isn’t lying that he is monumentally dumb and potentially criminally negligent to have gone for a drive to test an eye issue.  You might forgive some random person off the street for ignorance, but DC has shown a long lasting interest in medical data and is one of the top advisors in government, this rather suggests he shouldn’t be making such culpably dumb decisions.

The kid would've already been exposed to the virus while Cumming and wife were pre-symptomatic. And anyway, kids aren't really at that much risk of the virus.

Poor self sacrificing Dom didn't want to put anyone else at risk. And he'd obviously not want to use mutual aid type groups because everyone hates him and he's been threatened before 

If he genuinely thought he was following the rules then why would he worry about setting a bad example and undermining the message?Any of us could've done the same in that situation, it's not his fault we're not clever enough to work that out.

Better than going blind on the A1M obviously!

I'm not saying I believe him, I absolutely don't. The whole thing smacks of a carefully constructed statement for the defence. And I suspect if the press conference today had been replaced by an hour's conversation with Keir Starmer it would all unravel. But he doesn't need to persuade us, he just needs to persuade Tory/Brexit supporters because they're the only people whose opinion this government cares about. And they've already shown themselves to be pretty easily persuaded by some spurious nonsense!

Leaving aside the question mark about whether that is true might I suggest that a better option is not testing your eyesight out on any road.

Just as a reminder. His wife carefully wrote her article failing to mention that they sodded off out of London.

She also failed to mention her kid was ill at all.

Odd that.

Has anyone seen any reference to whether his wife can't drive? Don't they share driving ever? The Barnard Castle trip would be logically credible, if still unbelievably stupid, if she doesn't drive. But if she does, WTF was he wittering on about for an hour?

Its cumulative, and a car is very close quarters.  At the time the advice was for an infected person to stay in a different room with the window open.  Very little was know about the risk to children then compared to now.  A common tactic I have seen in this is to judge actions then against what is known now.  Certainly not the case of the 14,000 people fined based on what was known then or the tens of millions who did as asked based on what was known then.

Unless you deny the massive reaction to his actions, it’s bloody obvious what it would be.  If he couldn’t see that and the harm it causes to the government he works for, he’s a bloody fool.

1.  If it was that bad he had no place behind the wheel

2. If I had to do an emergency driver / passenger swap I would far rather do it on the hard shoulder of the A1(M) than on the A688 which doesn’t have many safe places to pull off the road, and has a lot of bends and fast traffic.

Totally agree and I absolutely despair at seeing top level U.K. politics dragged down to this dung heap level.

Piers Morgan is on it - she can drive - https://mobile.twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1264977865784918016

If he was genuinely worried he could have driven by himself for half an hour up and down the dual carriageway outside his parents house, looping the roundabouts at either end.  This would have left his wife and child safe at home and would have allowed him to walk home along the ample and safe roadside footpath (southbound) or grass verge (northbound) if his eyesight did degrade.  Although if you think you might be medically unfit to drive, driving on the public highway is criminally stupid.  

 For someone sold as a great mind this stuff isn’t rocket science.

I’m all for the benefit of the doubt but here it comes down to doubt about if he’s an arrogant sociopathic liar or a dangerously moronic halfwit.

But... A reasonable person would listen to his defense in full before casting judgement. And when one has done that, it becomes a matter of forensically pointing out the lies and obvious flaws in his over-complicated story rather than being furious at brazen hypocrisy. It's much harder to maintain such widespread and fierce anger against him. That was my point, that the length and complexity of his explanation was his play, not the plausibility of it.

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe him, and I still think he's a hateful, conniving shit, albeit a smarter one than I thought him to be this morning.

Points 2 to 4 are kind of resumption of normal service (apart from the right wing press, but they won't push the story if the public outrage abates). It was your point 1., the public fury, that I believe was the clearest political (and physical) danger to him.

Well he did explain how he had stated corona viruses would be a risk in one or more of his blog posts.

Although odd thing is people have gone looking and dont seem to have found much supporting evidence. There is a mention in one blog post but when someone was so unkind as to do a diff in the web archive it seems to be relatively recent.

https://web.archive.org/web/diff/20200409151643/20200503060009/https://domi...

Seems 16% of mumsnetters that responded said they fancy Mr Cummings.

The remaining extensive discussion roughly parallels UKC, in both the size and the depth of the teacup.

Nitey nite.

PS good job, Robert

His whole story seemed to revolve around the fact that while not tested, he thought he had Covid19, but he was careful to point out that he didn't have either of the two designated symptoms of fever or cough. Why was that?

He also said that he didn't refuel on the drive up, but that he did refuel, probably on the return journey. I don't believe this, at all.

He drives a Landrover Discovery right? Pretty sure those can't get to Durham and back on a tank of fuel. Seems that he refueled during the days of required quarantine, with a support network in place, before the doctor supposedly gave him a clean bill of health.

When and where did you refuel Dominic? Maybe he uses cash

One keeps on having to repeat stuff, endlessly. Yes, it is now well-known that his wife drives and has NO problem with her eyesight. So all that argument about his bad eyesight was a completely bogus red herring.

Not really - his eyesight lie was so ludicrous the twitter memes were out before he'd finished. 

Not really. Losing the Daily mail is a big deal. The backbenchers have only been after him for a day, and that's not going to go away. And while starmer has been crucifying him, the amount of material has exploded. 

From those predisposed to hate him. Now they're laughing at him instead, which I also think works in his favour. He's turned it into a farce.

As I said, I'm on your side and don't want to argue this point too far. But I see where Robert is coming from - Cummings has set some of us to pondering whether his story is in any way a plausible explanation (as specifically distinct from justification).

In reply:

Let's not let this one go folks 

He must be fired for breaking the lockdown rules 

PS the eyesight lie is beyond ludicrous 

Here's a good Cummings 'eyesight' image:

https://robinjescott.com/the-best-barnard-castle-eye-test-memes/

I wish that was true but 80% of British newspapers are owned by Tory billionaires. The rest are Liberal/Blairite which is Thatcherite Tory as well. 

HOWEVER, this whole thing is no longer primarily about Cummings... if it ever was

It's about Johnson and his CONTEMPT for the UK public in not sacking Cummings (who will always justify his trip. He, like Johnson, apparently believes there is one rule for our leaders, another rule for the rest of us)

He probably thought it would be much more pleasant to spend lock down up there on this country estate/2nd home thing and decided to take his family. 

The rest from saying he thought he and his wife might have covid, using the child as an excuse to risking his families safety by driving to test his eyesight are just obvious convoluted lies to try and cover up for being caught red handed during his entitled family getaway and day trip out to a castle whilst the rest of us stayed indoors religiously as he asked us to.

Can we just get one thing straight.

He didn't crash, however good/bad his eyesight was. It was, therefore, absolutely wreckless.

If he had crashed it would not have been wreckless. It would, however, have become reckless...

For anyone thinking he is honest, try this 

https://twitter.com/jwiechers/status/1264953956758884354?s=19

Dan Walker is having a good crack at Gove this morning. Asking many questions we are all thinking. Gove is squirming.

Well it's certainly been a bit of an education to be on the receiving end of a UKC "mob"!

Welcome to the club!  

Rite of passage.

2 unrelated observations: Isn’t it uncanny how some public school folk can look you in the eye and schmooze you while simultaneously pissing on your shoes.

Ive never been to Barnard Castle but Google maps makes it 43 minutes from Durham, on roads that look fairly tortuous. To do it as DC claimed in 30 minutes looks more like testing a rally cross car than testing your eyesight. The reality probably is just more Cummings smokescreen.

Well I didn’t expect Douglas Ross to resign. That’s a definite bolt out of the blue.

Oh come now, your treatment has been robust but not outrageous! 

This is nothing compared to time I accused boulders of not understanding how styles of climbing work. Or what Sarah Jane Dobner tends to provoke...(though she deserves it)

And guarantees it stays front and centre for at least another 24 hours

True, but it did give a taste. And I was really only trying to see the opposing view to the mob one rather than actually holding it.  People "shouting" in capital letters who clearly hadn't read my posts, or just repeating themselves several times rather than addressing my points (and these are people I normally agree with on this sort of stuff). Posts getting large numbers of dislikes without any actual replies.

Well obviously climbing ethics are far more important than national matters of possible life and death. 

Pity I missed that. I have to admit to having a bit of a soft spot for Gove.

Re Gove: evidently everything in Cummings' statements is "verifiable". Interesting choice of words there; not the same as "true".

Why is it only those who flaunt their political colours that perceive this widespread bias and why does their perception of different media sources differ depending on who they are shouting for?

Give your dictionary a shake, I think that the definitions may be out of sync

It may well be verifiable, it was still completely against the guidance / instructions for covid 19 symptom presenters at the time.

Ah, but this is the Internet!

I always accrue a tonne of dislikes. I'm sure there are a couple of people who dislike whatever I write on sight, as policy. Whatever - I try to tell myself. But the human brain is weird in that you can get 100+ likes, but if you get 5 dislikes, that will niggle away at you regardless. It's part of the reason most people who live on Instagram are seriously unhappy and anxious.

Try to remember that those of us wasting our times on this forum are weird, and none of it matters. At. All.

This time next week, you won't even remember half of what anyone said, let alone who said it. Same goes with everybody else with regards to you.  

Maybe he just meant that we would eventually know the truth definitely one way or another and that we should wait and see. Though I'm not sure we will.

I'm not bothered by the dislikes - by taking the line I did, I was fully expecting loads. I am just genuinely interested, in particular, why my post of 22.59 last night, in which I thought I really tried to clarify my position pretty clearly, attracted so many, but got no actual replies.

Part of the problem with the like/dislike button is that whilst someone may be neutral or even agree with 80-90% of what you say, one line you disagree with may prompt the dislike. I read your comment again (22.59) and I can imagine, for most people, it was the idea that Cummings came across as likeable that prompted a response. 

You got one 20 minutes after your post.  You even responded to that reply.  Narcissistic much?

Me too.  Given the opportunity I'd kick him in it.  Hard.

I really can't see what 'the opposing view' is, when someone shows such evasiveness, self-righteousness, dishonesty, hypocrisy and lack of remorse. These are not virtues but vices. I don't like the way you use the term 'mob view' to imply that straightness, modesty, honesty, integrity and remorse are somehow unworthy.

Oh give it a rest.  You trolled.  Well done.

That one didn't quote my post, so I took it as a general comment on the position I had been taking. And it was one of the very few posts sympathetic to my position, so certainly didn't explain any "dislikes"

Good grief, so responding to a post makes me narcissistic? What a bizarre thing to say about a post when responding to a post in a discussion forum.

The opposing view is that he genuinely thought his actions were justifiable and accepting that. I am sure you would not have to look very hard to find internet bubbles where that is the prevalent "mob" view. I'm not agreeing with this view let alone asking you to agree with it; I am just saying it is out there and trying to understand why.

I'm never quite sure what "troll" means in different contexts. But if what you mean is that, as part of the discussion, I dared put forward a possible perspective differing from the prevalent majority view in the thread, then yes, I quite deliberately did that.

Sorry, maybe I've explained myself poorly. I'm not going to get into a big discussion about the details because that's not the point I was trying to make. It's not about whether the story is true, it's about whether it would cover all the known sightings and create reasonable doubt around the allegations that he knowingly broke the rules. It doesn't need to be believable to everyone, it only needs to be believable to Tory/Brexit supporters who will probably look at it with a less critical eye than those who already dislike Cummings. I'm not sure it's worked though - there are quite a few right-wingers still being very critical today, particularly from the perspective of the damage it's doing to the government's political capital, but there's also a large swathe of people who are neither ideologically leave/remain or Tory/Labour and they're still furious.

Have you thought that people are quite capable of doing this and deciding its incorrect?  You seem to be trying to claim the high ground by implying others dont have your analytical skills.

Deciding it is incorrect is not the same as trying to understanding why others might decide otherwise.

If this had been the case, then it would have been dead easy for him to say so.

He didn't - which should have been enough for anyone with half a brain.

She can drive (see reference to Piers Morgan by Wintertree at 00.11 Tuesday).

Actually that can be covered in the decision making why it is wrong. However I dont want to add to your persecution complex so will leave you to your sense of superiority.

Quite.  

I know you are not stupid so it won't wash with me.  

Sorry, what won't?

I think you are trolling.

For the record I disliked a number of your posts to show my disagreement of what you were saying.

By the way there has been no 'mob' on here, its just that probably 95% of posters can see the fact s for what they are.

At first I thought your position a little curious and benevolent but that quickly changed....I then starting seeing your plausibility arguments as ridiculous....now I think you are just trying to wind people up...

I feel neither persecuted nor superior. Maybe just a bit exasperated.

I can absolutely assure you that I am not. I was simply trying to open up the discussion.

Fair enough, but sometimes when a long post gets dislikes it is not possible to know what specifically is being objected to or disagreed with.

Ok, maybe I should not have used the term emotive "mob". Apologies. I should perhaps have simply said a very strong prevalent opinion that was a little bit intimidating to query.

Again, I can absolutely assure you that I am not.

I know, an honorable Tory politician, bit of a shocker that.

Dominic Cummings undoubtedly broke the COVID-19 regulations. To quote:

"if you live with others and you are the first in the household to have symptoms of coronavirus (COVID-19), then you must stay at home for at least 7 days, but all other household members who remain well must stay at home and not leave the house for 14 days. The 14-day period starts from the day when the first person in the house became ill. "

There are questions to answer as to whether he went to work after his wife became ill. He then drove his family from London, which had a high incidence of COVID-19 infection, to Durham, which had a lower rate. His wife and child had to visit a hospital while they were in Durham. His and his family's actions created a real risk of spreading the virus. It is exactly this kind of risk of transmission that the travel restrictions were designed to prevent. That he later went for a day trip to Barnard Castle (and his risible excuse) reinforces the impression that he has little regard for the regulations that he himself was involved in creating and implementing.

If he had come out into the Rose Garden and said, 'I'm very sorry, I was worried for my wife and son and under the stress of the situation, I made a severe error of judgement.', I might have had some sympathy and possibly it would not be critical for him to resign. However, he did not apologise or even admit that he did anything wrong. This seriously, seriously, undermines the regulations and restrictions designed to limit the spread of COVID-19. People will feel disgusted that they have made large sacrifices, have avoided contact with family in similar circumstances or when their loved ones are seriously ill or dying. People are also more likely to feel free to interpret the guidance in any way they see fit. 

His conduct and attitude make him unsuitable for a position in the heart of government. The only way to restore confidence would be for him to resign. If Boris Johnson cannot manage without him then he, too, is clearly unfit to be Prime Minister.

Jackson Carlaw too! (Scottish Tories' leader.)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52802057

He either has more backbone than I though (after his pivot to supporting potential no-deal brexit when his job was on the line), or he sees which way this is going and wants to be on the right side of it. Or both, to be fair.

Just as well we've taken back control with our democratically elected policy makers, he?