The eyesight lie has taken centre stage because it's funny and ridiculous.
But what about "I never told the PM I was going to Durham"? That's obviously false, and all we need is his phone to prove it.
Anyone know what powers might be available to properly investigate? Presumably Boris has to confirm in the House that this is the case (which no doubt Starmer will be onto) and then Boris can be investigated for misleading the House?
> PMQs might be worth a watch tomorrow.
it isnt on.
Johnson is in front of a committee but apparently those tories who actually have some free will have been booted off it for the day.
> it isnt on.
When do we get to see Starmer disembowel Johson, and do a little dance while twirling his entrails?
(Oh, and I really am terribly sorry for the graphic violent imagery, I really really am.)
Hang on - what have I missed? How do you know it's a lie and, if it wasn't a text message, what would having his phone prove?
> Hang on - what have I missed? How do you know it's a lie and, if it wasn't a text message, what would having his phone prove?
I'd be flabbergasted if there weren't texts.
It's just like the eyesight line, plainly ludicrous. You'd have to be thick or mad to believe it - and as far as I know you're neither. Do you think it's plausible that none of the Cabinet had any idea about his trip to Durham?
I thought this was going to be about him altering his blog the day he got back to work to falsely show he anticipated the pandemic. Or are we saving that one as there's been so many lies and f*ck ups?
> I thought this was going to be about him altering his blog the day he got back to work to falsely show he anticipated the pandemic. Or are we saving that one as there's been so many lies and f*ck ups?
Exactly - where do we start? Alastair Campbell said there were something like 12 or more points on which he could "destroy him".
> I'd be flabbergasted if there weren't texts.
> It's just like the eyesight line, plainly ludicrous. You'd have to be thick or mad to believe it - and as far as I know you're neither. Do you think it's plausible that none of the Cabinet had any idea about his trip to Durham?
It may be plausible - i know he's not a politician but it appears that durham plod didnt know about him until his father phoned them to discuss security. I would have thought someone in his position, as a potential target to some would be required to inform someone of his whereabouts. He does just seem to do things now and think later.
> It may be plausible - i know he's not a politician but it appears that durham plod didnt know about him until his father phoned them to discuss security. I would have thought someone in his position, as a potential target to some would be required to inform someone of his whereabouts. He does just seem to do things now and think later.
I wouldn't expect plod to know. The Cabinet however - sorry, I don't buy it any more than I buy the absurd notions that he couldn't get possibly get childcare in London if push came to shove, nor that eyesight bollocks. It's a lie, and I want to see it exposed.
Well one part of it is a lie. No 10 confirmed that DC was self isolating in london. Like his wife's account, either her credibility as a journalist / writer is shot or he was lying. Probably both. The most hilarious / pathetic thing i've seen was a fb post with cummings account of the eye test, segued into BoJo's renewed love for spectacles, followed by Goves tale of him going for a drive to see if his eyes were ok. Nick Ferrari (LBC) interviewing him knew it was a pile of shite, Gove must have known everyone knew it was a pile of shite but just continued on. Obvioulsy taking the pee out of the interviewer, the staff of LBC and all the listeners; there was no possibilty of anything he said being remotely true.
I think Cummings didn't mean to, but what he said yesterday actually made it sound like it was pretty close to chaos at No. 10 in late March. Johnson released his now famous "im ok video but I still have symptoms so will continue self isolating" video on Friday 3rd April, he had been in self isolation for over 7 days then, so since before the 27 March (Friday) when Cummings makes his drive up north. He's not a politician, he doesn't seem to have police protection, so no need to notify them, and Johnson was already sick and not meeting cabinet. Why would he tell him?
I don't think the changes the facts in any way - Cummings broke the regulations in numerous ways, but even if he had told the PM he was going to Durham, short of it being a text message - taking his phone wouldn't prove anything. Maybe he spoke to Johnson and told him verbally - but that's essentially unproveable short of it turning out GCHQ has been bugging the PM.
Well I don't believe the PM and Cabinet didn't know, and I'll bet both bum cheeks there's texts to prove it.
> Well I don't believe the PM and Cabinet didn't know, and I'll bet both bum cheeks there's texts to prove it.
Can't texts be deleted? Or do they live on somewhere?
> Can't texts be deleted? Or do they live on somewhere?
I'm not particularly confident we're ever going to see them, but I find the idea that they were not sent preposterous.
> I'm not particularly confident we're ever going to see them, but I find the idea that they were not sent preposterous.
I'm not quite clear. Is the claim that he didn't tell Johnson that he had gone to Durham for ages after he went or just that he didn't tell him before setting off?
Maybe, but we don't actually know that was the case and it is, at least for the time being, not provable.
I don't think this is going to turn into "Durhamgate" where it's the cover up, not the crime, that brings the government down. Watch the glee of Gove et al pouncing on the "untruths" that were reported - the Sky News lady pointed out all he could point to was one claim (that he returned to London then went back to Co. Durham) which seems to have been incorrect. If No. 10 said DC was self isolating at home in London when he was actually in Durham, who ever was the spokesperson that day was far more likely to not know, than to risk lying to the lobby (are "No. 10 spokesmen" civil servants or Tory party appointees? Not sure but the former I suspect).
This isn't really a criminal thing - what could happen at worse? Cummings gets fined 30 quid for breaking lockdown? It's a political thing - he's a hypocrite, and thinks he doesn't have to act like 'normal people'. So he should go - if they fine him 30 quid even better, but that's by the by. But because there is no real crime there I doubt you're going to see anything like what happened in Washington last week with Sen. Burr having his phone seized by the cops. Short of Anonymous hacking his phone and getting his texts and WhatsApps, I don't think you're going to get the evidence that you think but don't know is there.
> I'm not quite clear. Is the claim that he didn't tell Johnson that he had gone to Durham for ages after he went or just that he didn't tell him before setting off?
Dom says that he didn't tell the PM he was going (obviously bollocks). At the moment, we don't know when the PM and Cabinet first found out that he wasn't in London (as far as I know). This is one of the questions that I want an answer to (I've written to my MP to ask if this can be brought to light).
> I'd be flabbergasted if there weren't texts.
> It's just like the eyesight line, plainly ludicrous. You'd have to be thick or mad to believe it - and as far as I know you're neither. Do you think it's plausible that none of the Cabinet had any idea about his trip to Durham?
It's slightly hard to imagine Alistair Campbell not notifying Tony Blair that he was leaving the city in the same circumstances, given the nature of their role as adviser. I try to avoid cynicism as an adopted perspective, but it's not what one would expect.
> Short of Anonymous hacking his phone and getting his texts and WhatsApps, I don't think you're going to get the evidence that you think but don't know is there.
That's really the question of the OP - what can the opposition do to expose Johnson of outright deception?
> It's slightly hard to imagine Alistair Campbell not notifying Tony Blair that he was leaving the city in the same circumstances, given the nature of their role as adviser.
And this is just one element of the whole ludicrous fabrication that stuck out to me (alongside the eyesight thing). It's full of holes, Johnson needs to be made to confirm the details in the House, and then to be shown to be the lying shit we all know he is and disciplined - he will then have to resign.
I don't understand why there are so many people out there who seem content to shrug off lying to the public in this way. Johnson thinks that because Trump can get away with it, so can he. We have a duty to help bring our country back from the brink.
>”We have a duty to help bring our country back from the brink.“
The brink? Isn’t this the 8th circle of hell already?
The water's boiling, but the frog hasn't jumped out of the pan.
There are so many things that Cummings has admitted to doing, I'm not sure why you are fixating on something we don't know? I think the state the government at the end of March is far more concerning than whether Cummings told Johnson he was going up north or not. With no constitution and the prime minister incapacitated but not completely so, who was in charge is quite a terrifying question.
> I'd be flabbergasted if there weren't texts.
Doesn't everyone use WhatsApp now? I've barely sent a text in many months/ years. Unfortunately it's encrypted and won't show in phone records.
That's what I meant by text
> There are so many things that Cummings has admitted to doing, I'm not sure why you are fixating on something we don't know? I think the state the government at the end of March is far more concerning than whether Cummings told Johnson he was going up north or not. With no constitution and the prime minister incapacitated but not completely so, who was in charge is quite a terrifying question.
Good point. As I said to Timmd, this obvious lie just happens to be one that struck me. I'm sure starmer will be much better at identifying the crucial lies that can be evidenced.
You're a lovely man Toby. We are talking about a master of dishonest propaganda with disdain for most mortals and a cabinet of lightweights, crooks and incompetents to maximise his and Boris's power. Watch Newsnights dissection of his so called rule following. His defence is classic propaganda...appeal to human sympathy, several squirrels and where the lies, under European law, it would be disproportionate to discover.
> You're a lovely man Toby.
Well, shucks... thanks.
Do you mean I'm being naive and that at all points #classicdom the puppet master was pulling the strings of power across Westminster, even from his Landrover Discovery as he dashed up north?
I suspect things were falling apart with civil service, particularly the permanent secretaries in Health and Treasury and the like, just about keeping the wheels on whilst Hancock and Raab ran around panicking like headless chickens, and no one noticed Patel hiding under the table of the cabinet office hissing at passerbys.
> There are so many things that Cummings has admitted to doing, I'm not sure why you are fixating on something we don't know? I think the state the government at the end of March is far more concerning than whether Cummings told Johnson he was going up north or not. With no constitution and the prime minister incapacitated but not completely so, who was in charge is quite a terrifying question.
My recollection is that when questioned about whether he'd told Boris, his line was my job is to bring him solutions not problems, he's very busy and I'm independent, why would I tell him? It was then pointed out to him that Boris was quite ill too (which was a much better excuse) and he agreed, but it was interesting that this wasn't the reason that first occurred to him.
Anyway, you have to be impressed by Cummings' integrity in sticking to his iconoclastic ideals. He always saw himself as transgressive and dismissive of the establishment so it's entirely consistent that he should now ignore his own rules and maintain his rugged individualism. He really does know better than the rest of us so this is both reasonable and legal in his exceptional circumstances.
I am disappointed in Gove though. Forcing himself to parrot the same risible lies as the vegetables in junior ministerial ranks isn't a good look when he was doing so well appearing to be the only adult in the room. Surely his debt of guilt to Boris for knifing him in the back during the post-Cameron leadership isn't so huge as to oblige him to do this? Boris doesn't have any credibility to speak of, but I think Gove is squandering the little bit he has in order to impress the 1922 Committee with his loyalty. The Tories are funny about that, for some reason, given they are so morally flexible about other things - like telling anything remotely resembling the truth, for instance.
> Dom says that he didn't tell the PM he was going (obviously bollocks). At the moment, we don't know when the PM and Cabinet first found out that he wasn't in London (as far as I know). <
I think it is just about conceivable that he didn't tell Johnson (unless unprovable ie verbal and private), Two reasons. If he had told Johnson he intended to go to Durham then Johnson might have said"No". The other reason is that if Johnson said "Yes", and thus knew about it, then Johnson would be complicit.
Another possibility is that he asked Johnson if it would be OK to go to Durham, Johnson said "Yes, old chap." Possibly without thinking as he is known for making rash statements. He would then be complicit and incompetent, and probably have lied about his knowledge.
Incidentally I thought Cummings managed the press interviewers well and was able to get away without any (as yet) provable lies. When a PM or other politician agrees to a make a statement to the press they are usually punctual. DC was certainly not, my wife tells me that this has been a previous tactic of his to exert control of a situation, though I haven't heard that before.
> If he had told Johnson he intended to go to Durham then Johnson might have said"No". The other reason is that if Johnson said "Yes", and thus knew about it, then Johnson would be complicit.
I suspect it was more like "I am on my way to Durham, back in a bit".
> Another possibility is that he asked Johnson if it would be OK to go to Durham, Johnson said "Yes, old chap." Possibly without thinking as he is known for making rash statements. He would then be complicit and incompetent, and probably have lied about his knowledge.
> Incidentally I thought Cummings managed the press interviewers well and was able to get away without any (as yet) provable lies.
I think he's driven the government into a lake of shit, and managed to lock all the car doors so no one can escape. It would be sad to see them drown if they were actual human beings.
It's , well "interesting" isn't the right word, but... it's interesting that Cummings "exceptional" argument loophole, was designed for victims of abuse to flee in extremis. Just when you think he couldn't get any lower.
He could walk under a slug in a top hat without bending over
> DC was certainly not, my wife tells me that this has been a previous tactic of his to exert control of a situation, though I haven't heard that before.
This is an odd one. Everyone hates him and wants to see him torn to pieces. The demeaner appeared calculated to make him appear sincere and human, rather than the aloof, shady scumbag we usually see when journos ask him a question. Being half an hour late is not a good way to dispel a reputation for aloofness and holding people in contempt.
Yes, it may have been calculated. But his calculations of this "PR genius" lately have turned out to be more like numberwang than CERN.
But what was so important he had to go back to No.10 and did he have clearance to take it to an unsecure location in Durham..........not that we will ever find out, perhaps he forgot his wallet (I think not), he constantly kept saying he was busy working, he is obviously driven by work, only defence/reason for not working from home as an office boy would be information/document security so he had to be in No.10.................if I was betting man I would say he took a bunch of stuff North so that he could carry on working, and there's a chance that stuff shouldn't have been out of Downing Street......though how the Guardian and Mirror go about digging to test such a hypothesis....haven't a clue.
Couldn't give a monkeys if Borris knew or not, even if they were lying, I already have formed my opinion that if their mouths are moving odds on there is at least one fib!
If it was found out he left Downing street with classified governmental papers, then the pressure cooker would blow.
I worry (to stretch your metaphor) that whilst Cummings might have driven the government into a lake of shit, it isn't as deep as you think and the Landrover Discovery of State is starting to emerge in the shallows on the other side (it can go far on one tank of diesel can't it!?). It is now grinding onwards towards the beach. Yes, it's dripping with shit and stinks to high heaven, but with Gove, Shapps and Jenrick - rictus grins firmly in place - visible (presumably Cummings and Johnson are under a blanket in the boot, where Patel has been hiding for the last month or so), they reckon they can just keep pushing through the shallower shit with the windscreens wipers on ("he didn't break any rules and was doing what any parent would. He didn't break any rules and..." ad infinitum) until they arrive on the shore. All the lefty remoaners will turn away to throw up from the stench, the Tory and Leave hardcore are laughing because they think its all a bit of laugh. And, would you look at that!? 37,000 loved ones dead in hospitals and care homes aren't on the front page anymore.
> I think it is just about conceivable that he didn't tell Johnson (unless unprovable ie verbal and private)
He's so indispensable that government ministers are prepared to leave the trenches and go over the top into withering machine gun fire to excuse him, but he can piss off and not tell his 'employer' where he is going...?
I did say " just about conceivable". If isolated any contacts would be via phone etc wherever he was. In fact Johnson would probably not have wanted to be able to be implicated with any sort of provable evidence he was complicit.. However I accept its unlikely.
That is the sickening truth
> Incidentally I thought Cummings managed the press interviewers well and was able to get away without any (as yet) provable lies.
This strikes me as a lie that has been 'proven' - accepting that there is almost always a get out - but it doesn't seem to have generated much interest. Perhaps it's just too boring to get riled about.
'Dominic Cummings faces questions over altered virus blogpost':
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/26/dominic-cummings-faces-que...
We are also talking about the supposedly top strategist who couldn't foresee that his own strategy was doomed.
> I worry (to stretch your metaphor) that whilst Cummings might have driven the government into a lake of shit, it isn't as deep as you think and the Landrover Discovery of State is starting to emerge in the shallows on the other side (it can go far on one tank of diesel can't it!?). It is now grinding onwards towards the beach. Yes, it's dripping with shit and stinks to high heaven, but with Gove, Shapps and Jenrick - rictus grins firmly in place - visible (presumably Cummings and Johnson are under a blanket in the boot, where Patel has been hiding for the last month or so), they reckon they can just keep pushing through the shallower shit with the windscreens wipers on ("he didn't break any rules and was doing what any parent would. He didn't break any rules and..." ad infinitum) until they arrive on the shore. All the lefty remoaners will turn away to throw up from the stench, the Tory and Leave hardcore are laughing because they think its all a bit of laugh. And, would you look at that!? 37,000 loved ones dead in hospitals and care homes aren't on the front page anymore.
I think the polls over the last 24hrs prove that it's far from just "lefty remoaners" who are absolutely livid about this. A Dailly Mail poll had a 12-pt swing to Starmer as leader, and 14-pt and 28-pt swings from Tory to Labour on "Competence" and "In/Out of touch" respectively. The 1000s of emails Tory MPs are reporting from Tory an Brexit-voting constituents means Cummings, Johnson and Gove can't jump aboard the Culture War train and ride it out. Starmer saying relatively little on it will certainly have helped in that regard.
If he stays - considering Johnson has nothing to offer of his own that might well happen - there will be significant permanent damage, even if Johnson stays in until 2024. Tory MPs have been talking about it being a "Black Wednesday moment".
> The 1000s of emails Tory MPs are reporting from Tory an Brexit-voting constituents means Cummings, Johnson and Gove can't jump aboard the Culture War train and ride it out.
That's what they seem to be trying. I suspect I wasn't the only one cheering on Mishal Hussein when she had a go at Jenrick this morning on Today, but he just kept batting it away. I actually have some respect for the Tory MPs who have come out and said "I can't support him when so many of my constituents are so angry", but it's 40, the other 325 either think he did nothing wrong or are hiding until it 'all blows over'.
> If he stays - considering Johnson has nothing to offer of his own that might well happen - there will be significant permanent damage, even if Johnson stays in until 2024.
I do hope that is the case, but past elections do make me wonder if that is really the case.
> This strikes me as a lie that has been 'proven' - accepting that there is almost always a get out - but it doesn't seem to have generated much interest. Perhaps it's just too boring to get riled about. 'Dominic Cummings faces questions over altered virus blogpost':...dominic-cummings-faces-questions-over-claim-he-warned-last-year-of-virus-threat <
Look's as if you're right there. However its not directly related to his actions in the Durham affair. If they got rid of every politician or associate who made a false or exaggerated claim about their achievements we might not have many left. Possibly why it hasn't raised much interest. I agree its reprehensible, and stupid, if he has altered the blog to fit in with an earlier statement, Maybe it will be the final straw.
> Look's as if you're right there. However its not directly related to his actions in the Durham affair.
Yes it is. He specifically introduced it as part of his defence. Showing how great a thinker he is and hence why he cant be sacrificed.
> That's what they seem to be trying. I suspect I wasn't the only one cheering on Mishal Hussein when she had a go at Jenrick this morning on Today, but he just kept batting it away. I actually have some respect for the Tory MPs who have come out and said "I can't support him when so many of my constituents are so angry", but it's 40, the other 325 either think he did nothing wrong or are hiding until it 'all blows over'.
> I do hope that is the case, but past elections do make me wonder if that is really the case.
Journalists who have been been following Cummings since the Vote Leave days are pretty ecstatic this week that he's been on the front page, as simply so many ordinary voters barely knew of his existence. The general consensus is that once he's known, he is not going to be well-liked.
BTW, looking though some old threads, I spotted this, from wintertree, 19th April...
"I was thinking of releasing a “Where’s Wally” covid edition starring Dominic Cummings. What’s he up to lately?"
I think we know the answer now...
https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/off_belay/boris_awol-718397?v=1#x9182160
44 Tory MPs now calling for Cummings to go. They're still rolling in.
IMHO his claim about having previously warned about the coronavirus threat had little to do with the facts of whether or not he acted wrongly in isolating in Durham. The press presumably haven't yet pursued it much for that reason. It appeared a pretty valueless defence anyway. It was however wrong and a mistake on his part to alter a blog to mislead people: in itself worthy of at least disciplinary action.
> IMHO his claim about having previously warned about the coronavirus threat had little to do with the facts of whether or not he acted wrongly in isolating in Durham. The press presumably haven't yet pursued it much for that reason. It appeared a pretty valueless defence anyway. It was however wrong and a mistake on his part to alter a blog to mislead people: in itself worthy of at least disciplinary action.
He seemed quite keen to mention it a couple of times at the press conference. It certainly shows that he can quite casually tell porkies with a straight face under a context of great scrutiny, a context which was above all about getting to the 'truth', so it does make one wonder what else he casually lied about.
It also seems a bit pathetic, like a kid at school submitting an essay after having done a crap job of cribbing off his big brother. Takes a special kind of arrogance to think you can get away with something like that in a press conference at No 10.
There will be meta data available from mobile providers, and why would anyone delete messages on their phone unless they don't want their partner/kids to see them.
I wish it was rolling, more of a trickle really. But it's good that some are still coming out. I might write to my MP - I say "my" as in I live in his constituency, not that I voted for the .... - but just to make sure he is aware how gutless and careless his government looks over this.
> Takes a special kind of arrogance to think you can get away with something like that in a press conference at No 10.
Trouble is, it seems he can do just that. It's a disgrace.
Do write to your MP. Let him know his party's behaviour is not acceptable. Tell him you have a long memory.
> ..... Being half an hour late is not a good way to dispel a reputation for aloofness and holding people in contempt. Yes, it may have been calculated. But his calculations of this "PR genius" lately have turned out to be more like numberwang than CERN. <
Have since read a rather muddled article in yesterday's "I" about his late arrival claiming that "....the person who has no misgivings about keeping someone waiting is flagranrly exercising power and control". However actually "those in a position of subvervience" (us) "felt they were being treated with contempt". The article suggests it would now be most revealing to find out why he was late (he gave a cursory excuse but no reason). I don't think he was questioned about it, though one wouldn't really expect a truthful answer. One possible reason was a panicked rehearsal of the story. The initial delay certainly contributed to me switching the TV off before all the slightly disappointing, but potentially embarrassing, interrogations were complete.
One of Cummings' biggest more worrying lies was when he said that he'd warned of or spoken about a coming pandemic circa last year, after having gone and redacted his blog to that effect.
If one goes to his blog one can see the changes made and the date of them too. it would seem to be carefully included to keep the public on his side as a good person to have in the team since most people would't think to check (but Ian Hyslop did).
That's got to be more important than why he drove to the castle and whether it was wise, it's rather sinister to distort reality over something as important.
My heart went cold when I read he'd done that. Before, I thought he was bad in a kind of 'mad and bad' way but I imagined that he had some kind of integrity (no matter how warped and skewed we might find it).
But now? It would seem that he has not an iota of integrity. At one level, this is like cheating in exams, in a petty kind of way. At another level, it's manipulative - as you say, sucking up to public opinion. It's also unbelievably arrogant and stupid (even if 99 commentators couldn't be bothered to check the changes, all it would take was one). Again, as you say, it's a sinister reworking of reality, along the lines of, 'Reality's what I say it is. (Oh, and by the way, I've just changed my mind. Now it's something else.') And it's a reworking of reality not about something petty but about one of the most pressing concerns in our world - the pandemic.
Lastly, when you think of the sheer scale of suffering - the loss of life, burnout of medical (and other) staff, destruction of livelihoods, enforced separation, prolonged isolation - for someone to glibly 'alter reality' in their favour, against such a horrifying backdrop, is staggering.
Didn't David Cameron describe him as 'a career psychopath'? Cummings seems so far over the line that he's a menace to our society. There seem to be no depths to which he will sink in pursuit of policies which will most likely ruin us.
Mick
That's probably the most egregious and at the same time stupid thing an SA has even done. Wicked beyond belief. It should be used by all as a measure of his integrity, his honesty, his self respect. Like Jeffrey Archer but without a funny side.
*If any London based UKCers could do that, it may turn out to be a very beneficial thing to do.
> But now? It would seem that he has not an iota of integrity. At one level, this is like cheating in exams, in a petty kind of way. At another level, it's manipulative - as you say, sucking up to public opinion. It's also unbelievably arrogant and stupid (even if 99 commentators couldn't be bothered to check the changes, all it would take was one). Again, as you say, it's a sinister reworking of reality, along the lines of, 'Reality's what I say it is. (Oh, and by the way, I've just changed my mind. Now it's something else.') And it's a reworking of reality not about something petty but about one of the most pressing concerns in our world - the pandemic.
Nick Cohen developed this aspect in his Observer piece on Sunday, and pointed out that a key part of Cummings' sell to the politicians is that he has to appear to be super-smart-
"Unlike Trump and Johnson, Cummings is not trying to fool the public but fool the fool who employs him – not the hardest of tasks, I grant you. He sinks to the level of the petty cheat because he must convince Johnson that he is a political mastermind."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/30/dominic-cummings-bori...
> Mick
Cummings other big lie is his attempt to portray himself , with his scruffy clothes and general attitude, as an outsider ruffling the feathers of the elite. In fact, he is part of the elite and his sneering attitude over Barnard Castle highlights it.
The second BMC Members Open Forum webinar took place on 20 March. Recently-appointed BMC CEO Paul Ratcliffe, President Andy Syme and Chair Roger Murray shared updates on staff changes, new and ongoing initiatives, insurance policy changes and the current...