UKH

I seriously don't know if Cumming broke any law in going for a "test" drive but by his own admission he has driven whilst being unsure of his ability to drive due to possibly defective vision.

Are there grounds for this to be reported to the DVLA?

Doubtful, but I hope his insurers were watching.

If there was a shred of truth in it, probably. Much more likely it’s just Cummings contemptuously shovelling irrelevant random sh*t on to the journos so as to deflect from the main issues.

You know what's reputed to cause poor eyesight don't you?  Simply confirms my opinion of the man.

He's trying to turn this into a farce. He's successfully turned anger into laughter. A bunch of memes about driving to Barnard Castle to test his eyes work in his favour.

Remember instead the 13 year old child who died alone and scared, whose relatives couldn't attend his funeral because they were thinking of the good of all of society. Remember Cummings driving hundreds of miles with the virus, while his wife wrote sob stories in the Spectator.

I think you're about right regarding turning it into farce. The extensive detail about toilet stops etc. was calculated to try and portray the press as obsessed with trivia to the point of absurdity. Couple that with smearing the press because of a few inaccuracies and that's job done. Or so he seems to have thought by the smirk as he walked away at the end...

The point is people in general, don’t just ‘go for a drive‘. You tend to plan a rough route, or a target. 
 

Personally, if I was unsure whether I was capable of going for a long drove, I’d pop out for a slow drive for 30mins to check I was ok before loading the car with the wife and kids and heading down the motorway at 70mph. 
 

The castle was closed and it’s a pile of bricks. Not exactly somewhere you’d head for a picnic in March. 
 

It’s all getting a bit silly. 
 

We are not Dominic Cummings or Boris, and the idea we should all behave the same is straight out of some text book on communism. 
 

I live in a house in the countryside. There’s 1000 people in my village, maybe 20 of them are runners. My friend lives in a one bed flat in the middle of a city. He argued that I should only be going out running for 30minutes a day because those are the ‘regulations’.

Work our how the rules apply to ourselves, stick to them, and stop telling everyone else how to interpret the rules. Mainly because we are not in their situation.
 

I don’t get the argument that “People were dying alone in hospitals, and people couldn’t go to funerals.” That’s because we didn’t (and still don’t) want people wandering in and out of hospitals en masse (there wasn’t even enough PPE for the nurses!), or congregating in social groups. Many people were still carrying on working and travelling to work as usual. 
 

There was (and still seems to be) a very strange view of what ‘stay at home’ meant and the reasons for it, from a lot of people. 

Which textbook on communism would that be? Here's one of the originals:

"In place of the old bourgeois society, with its classes and class antagonisms, we shall have an association, in which the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all."

From one of the original textbooks on communism, the Communist Manifesto. My italics.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.h...

Barnard Castle is a town as well as a castle.  The town is a popular local destination.  The castle is made from stone not brick.  DC visited the town in April not March.   

Incredibly, on the very day they went to Barnard Castle, his wife retweeted a Johnson tweet about the importance of staying at home:

https://twitter.com/JobbingLeftieH/status/1265034558778597377

Just amazing.

That's a lot of words to say that you missed the point entirely. And please don't conflate people's surreptitious bouldering trips with a sinister government aide driving hundreds of miles with COVID and child in the car and then lying with a straight face about it to the entire nation from a platform above his office. That's downright offensive to fellow forum users.

You'd pop out for a drive taking your wife and kids?!

The whole concept of being so unsure of your eyesight that you need to go for a drive to check it is just ridiculous! If you're so unsure of your eyesight then you shouldn't be driving. Why didn't he get his wife to drive or just stay put?

The story is just not credible which is why nobody believes it, not even the Tory MPs believe it!

Yes. That one works for me. 

I don’t think he said it was ‘to check his eyesight’. Is there a full quote on that? I think he said he had been having trouble with his eyesight amongst other things. Driving relies on being able to concentrate for a period of time. It’s not something you can simulate on the sofa. 

Absolutely. I’d take another competent driver with me to ensure I could get back safely. If the only person was my wife and we were sole carers of the 4 year old, how else is that achieved? 

Yes. Lots of ideas there.
 

Bouldering trips are all part of it aren’t they? 
 

Everyone has been working out dynamically how the conditions apply to them. All over the country people have been doing all kinds of trips. Some of them have been stopped by police and their stories have been acceptable, some haven’t and they’ve been turned around, some have argued and been fined. 
 

We are not all equal I’m afraid. That’s why the laws were not bullet proof, locked down and set in stone.

Its one thing to go off on a jolly, it’s another to protect yourself and your family. 

it's usually about 45min drive from durham to barney- lots of built up areas and roundabouts. 30min would mean speeding imo..

If you have another competent driver then why are you doing any driving in the first place?

I have no idea. There was no traffic anywhere was there. If it’s an area, why are we taking about a Castle? Is it a big area? Where did the police question him? 

The full quote is:

"On Sunday 12 April, 15 days after I had first displayed symptoms, I decided to return to work. My wife was very worried, particularly given my eyesight seemed to have been affected by the disease. She didn't want to risk a nearly 300-mile drive with our child, given how ill I had been. We agreed that we should go for a short drive to see if I could drive safely. We drove for roughly half an hour and ended up on the outskirts of Barnard Castle town. We did not visit the castle. We did not walk around the town. We parked by a river. My wife and I discussed the situation. We agreed that I could drive safely, we should turn around, go home. I felt a bit sick."

No doubt you'll find that terribly reassuring. 

Do you have a wife? 

I guess you are assuming Cummings is thick as pig shit if he couldn't figure out an alternative.

Here's one - he leaves the wife and child at home, and drives a ~ 4 mile loop up and down the dual carriageway immodestly outside his parents house between the roundabouts to the North and South.  It's much closer to motorway driving that he's testing for than the trip to Barney.  If he finds his abilities failing he can either do one last loop home or park the car on the verge, walk home (15 minutes max) and send his wife out to retrieve the car, all the while without risking the safety of his wife and child, just that of the other motorists, cyclists and pedestrians he apparently holds in total contempt.

Or, radical idea, he could just ask his wife to drive.

This stuff isn't rocket science.  Certainly not for an Oxford graduate supposed to be one of the smartest brains behind the government.  I can't decide if he's actually rather thick or if he's trolling the government to show them just how untouchable he is.  Neither is a very appealing prospect.
 

Ok. So outskirts of the town. No castle mentioned. Eyesight was part of the issue. 
 

Got it. 

Very good, well done. That’s what you’d do. Why would you be so analytical about a test drive? Wouldn’t you just like, go for a drive? 

Yet I'm not even a government advisor and I could figure it out.

A test drive is to see if you like a car (new) or if it's in good nick (used), it's not to test your health.

1. No.  I wouldn't get in a driver's seat at all under such circumstances because I wouldn't want the moral or legal responsibility if I caused anyone injury.  But moving on to asking what someone with less integrity would do...

2. I wouldn't just "go for a drive" with my family, in order to minimise the risk to my child by not taking them for a drive when my wife and I were seriously questioning my ability to do so competently and therefore safely.  Not rocket science is it?

3. Perhaps you missed it but at the time there was crash priority lockdown with constant advice from government and even DC's wife to avoid all unnecessary travel.  Having a nice day trip with my family can't under any circumstances be construed as essential - and I would being analytical to find a way of achieving the essential minimum with the fewest number of people travelling the shortest physical distance from home is the right thing to do - the virus only travels because people travel after all.

If you seriously think it was beyond DC to find a minimum risk alternative to the Barnard Castle trip, that minimised risk to his child and wife, and that was least against the spirit of the lockdown, I wonder why you think he should be allowed anywhere near government?  

I see you don't have a come back for the even more bloody obvious suggestion I made "Or, radical idea, he could just ask his wife to drive.".  No extra day trip to Barney, no risky drive with a child in the car where both parents questioned the ability of the driver to do so safely, no violation of the law or spirit of the lockdown, no violation of government advise, no hypocritical breaking of her own tweet by the wife, no media furore that could yet take down his "boss".  A moment's trivial thought could have avoided all this.   

Can I suggest you read my previous reply to you, or look at a map, or look at Wikipedia before you post any more?  

Why do you keep blathering on about a castle? It's part of the name of the town. 

Anyone would think you didn't have a clue what you were talking about. 

I’m not sure it’d be necessary to break any speed limits on empty roads (peak lockdown) but I don’t think the approach needed for the roundabouts would go down well with the police, but it would explain why DC felt a bit sick when he got there....  Kid must be made of stern stuff.  No loo breaks in 260 miles and happy to be thrown round roundabouts at breakneck speed.  Respect.

When it comes down to it it’s a matter of personal judgement whether you believe his story or not.
There’s no way given the current evidence that it can be proved one way or the other and I respect your right to believe his implausible story but pretty much the rest of the population believes that he’s just made it up to cover up his jolly to a local beauty spot.

'Why would you be so analytical about a test drive? '

WTF are you on about? In 50 years of driving it has never once occurred to me to 'go for a test drive' to see if I'm fit enough to drive or not. If I got up tomorrow planning to drive to, say, North Wales, but felt unwell, I wouldn't drive to Swansea to see if driving made me better. I wouldn't go anywhere until I felt better.

It's such a pathetic, threadbare and patently untrue little excuse that I am amazed that anyone could do anything other than either be embarrassed for him, or enraged by him.

You're on a low quality wind up? Right...

So where does it say that we should all behave the same then?

dibnnet addlecr me yoo vadly!

I cycled 20 minutes to quietly boulder somewhere safely and distanced. How dare you equate that to driving hundreds of miles as a virus carrier. And if you believe his horseshit excuse that it was the only way to protect his family, you're an utter mug.

That quote is all about removing class and everybody being able to behave as they wish.

We can’t all behave as we wish because we don’t all live in the same circumstances and have the same pressures on us. 
 

It would be great if 60m people just behaved as they wished but it just wouldn’t (and never has) worked. 
 

As I say. I behave differently living in a village to my friend who lives in a city. In fact I’d say that I even behave differently to my next door neighbour. The country depends on it. 

Since I am not insane enough to decide to test whether I was capable of driving by driving I cant come up with an exact match.

Closest I can come was after shaking off a bug getting back into cycling. In that case I specifically did a few laps of the local roads so I was never more than a couple of miles from home in case I did find I wasnt up to it.

Wouldnt have headed out to a beauty spot a fair distance away on my wifes birthday to test my capability.

Another poster who lives locally claims it’s an area, not a spot and the speech he gave claims ‘outskirts of town’.

Why would you need to be ‘insane’? 
 

When we have driving tests do we just take the pupils up and down the nearest dual carriageway a few times? 
 

If you’re planning a 5 hour drive the next day, is a ‘few minutes’ an adequate test? 

So you feel the right way to judge whether you are safe to drive is to self assess by driving? Can you not see a problem here.

I love how you start demanding I defend something I didnt say but, since you have come out with such a glorious response I will point out one minor difference.

When doing a test you have a f*cking examiner next to you and, generally, its a dual control car.

There's a perfectly good way of testing your eyes for driving WITHOUT driving ANYWHERE. Stand in the road and see if you can read a car number plate at whatever the distance is.

You degrade yourself with this desperate defense.

I feel you are confused about the differences between a test drive, a driving test and a health test.

Further, driving up and down the dual carriageway for half an hour is far closer to the relevant motorway driving than the any route to bishop.  I see you ignored my point that this would have allowed him to test his health whilst driving without exposing his wife and child to risk by leaving them at home.

I see you’re ignoring my point about “why not just let the wife drive ”.  Also the point about “necessary” journeys and lockdown.

I made a bet with myself on which of two posters would choose this ridiculous hill to die on.  I bet wrong.  

Sir Roger Gale was very explicit in his view that Cummings should have asked his boss for help.  His boss being Sir Mark Sedwill, the head of the civil service.  For some reason, he apparently couldn't bring himself to do this...

The whole eyesight thing is a bit of a puzzle anyway.  I've just heard Boris say he has found he now needs glasses after his illness, although an ophthalmologist on R4 seems equally baffled as to why this should be. 

On the other hand, almost everyone finds they get more longsighted once they reach a certain age, even people as vain as Boris.

Yet here we are talking about it not the fact it's a contemptuous lie draped threadbare over the reported facts. There he is still pulling the government's strings. It's a surreal and sobering lesson in how countries fall completely under the spell of cult leaders and their propagandists.

Jk

Of course it’s the right way to assess. We do it every day. You can get in a car and drive feeling fine. If you feel ill or tired you stop. 
 

You can’t assess that from a sofa! 

I think I asked if you had a wife. Or maybe that was another poster. 

You didn’t ask me that.  Mrs Wintertree did take me to Barnard castle on my birthday about 12 years ago. We had really good pork pies from the pie shop there.  I hear it’s a popular birthday destination.

i reckon he got sick when he was recognised and retreated to staindrop for some deer spotting at raby castle

ermm yes you can. Its quite easy to see whether you feel ill or tired without getting behind the wheel.

I would suggest if you find yourself repeatedly needing to stop driving because you feel shit that you a)see a doctor and b)stop driving until you have been properly assessed.

You must, surely to God, know that you are expending both physical and mental energy, but above all your credibility, on the most transparent and self serving tissue of lies that have been concocted since Jonathon effing Aitken threatened the Guardian with his 'sword of truth', or serial liar and Tory peer Jeffrey Archer's defence that he gave Monica Coughlan £1000 'for no reason'. (Look 'em up; they date from when even politicians thought they had to resign, not when they lied, but when the were caught.) 

I'm really keen to have more diversity on this site, even I get frustrated by the homogeneity.  I would really appreciate the ability to engage with those who hold diverse and opposing though rational and sincerely held views in a reasonable and reasonably respectful manner - Off duty comes close quite often, it's a shame about PP having been ground down.  However you're not about to join their ranks any time soon.  Choose battles worth fighting for.

That was the most deliciously gentle call of 'bullshit!'. All the better for it.

Jk

Repeatedly? 

There’s not a lot of point in having any credulity round here. I gave up long ago. 
 

As you say, “frustrated by the homogeneity” doesn’t even come close. It’s an echo chamber full of lefties and remainers. 
 

Even on this thread the guy is guilty without consideration because everyone else has lived in central London with a 4 year old child and suffered COVID and knows exactly how to act under such circumstances. 
 

It’s quite strange really. Everyone has an answer for something they have no experience of. Although this thread is pretty much the same as many others in that respect. 

'On the other hand, almost everyone finds they get more longsighted once they reach a certain age, even people as vain as Boris.'

That's true, it's called presbyopia, but it won't in fact affect Boris much because a) he doesn't read very much, least of all government documents, and b) he doesn't give prepared speeches and read notes, he blusters and used to make jokes. That's left him high and dry; there's not so much scope for those when history may well judge that he has been responsible for the deaths of thousands that could have been avoided had we been better prepared beforehand, and less cavalier and better organised once the catastrophe struck.

'Even on this thread the guy is guilty without consideration because everyone else has lived in central London with a 4 year old child and suffered COVID and knows exactly how to act under such circumstances. '

The one bit of guidance/rules that made - and makes - perfect sense was the requirement that if you are in a household where you think someone has become infected, then you must self isolate for 14 days.  A better place for Cummings and his family to self isolate than central London would be hard to imagine - he'd able  to whistle from his window and get more supplies than he could shake a stick at. And was their really no one in a city of 12 million that he and his wife have lived in for 20+ years that would be able to help if they both became really ill? 

Not me. You decide what’s right for you. 
 

You will find though that a fair few people will judge you very poorly for that. It goes against the BMC guidelines for a start. 
 

But I don’t think you can claim the moral high ground. 

The only real issue I have with this situation is this. That the apparently cleverest bloke in the UK, the man who has the ear of the highest office in politics and who advices or sets policy for the UK government. 

Couldn't foresee that this was going to blow up in his face!! 

It has to make you wonder surely?

Thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, were in these circumstances, and weren't as privileged or well connected as Cummings. They didn't take the course of action that Cummings did. Do you not see how insulting your attempts to defend him are becoming?

Believe me it does. I think it's pretty obvious too that everything Orgasmings said yesterday had been planned and rehearsed in the wake of the adverse publicity he was getting. His arguments and "logic" were so feeble that any idiot could tell that he had put the story together after he relised that things were rebounding on him. Mote to the pitty that he thought people were stupid enogh to fall for it.

I'll make no secret of the fact that I have always supported the Conservative Party and I always will but it saddens me that this tw*t has undone all the good work that Corbyn did for the Tories.

Personally I'd be delighted (I want to see Starmer as PM), except obviously for the fact that we have essentially no leadership now in the greatest crisis this country has faced in decades, and more people are likely to suffer and die as an indirect result.

Kudos to you for seeing the situation clearly and without bias.

Defending? 

We don’t need to have been there.  Although many of us have been to our own difficult places.  Why don’t we need to have been there?  Because the government gave crystal clear instructions on what to do if you thought you were infected or if you were infected, or if anyone in your household met either of those criteria.  Hint:  it didn’t include going on a 520 mile round tip with a subsidiary 60 mile day trip when you suspect you’re medically unfit to drive.  
 

I think you’ll find hundreds of other people probably did. I know of several people who are currently not living in their ‘homes’. Many people have made a call to move somewhere else. 
 

You can call it privilege. They’re not particularly privileged in the grand scheme of things in my understanding. Other than they have family with property. Unless people with property are considered privileged now.

Is someone privileged because they live in a 3 bed house and a garden in the suburbs? When does it become privileged and not worked for? 

Applying Government Approved Common Sense I would have tested my vision by going for a 30 minute walk and attempting to focus on things a couple of hundred metres in the distance.  But then I haven't got a brain the size of a planet, so obliviously taking your wife and 4 year old son for a drive is the safer option.   Silly me.

Call it "bending over a barrel and lubing up" if you prefer.

Keep digging that hole...

You don't think that being the Prime Minister's leading political adviser puts him in a particular position of power and privilege?

It would be nice to think he was treated in exactly the same way as the rest of the population, but given that he has already been found in contempt of Parliament for an unrelated affair without any sanction being applied against him, that seems a forlorn hope. 

How about this as one definition for privilege?  The attorney general undermines the police, the rule of law and the independence of her office by publicly supporting you.  Amidst a giant crisis where he is failing his people more than almost any other world leader the PM uses his official media appearance to publicly support you.  Other cabinet members do likewise.

Were they all high level government advisers too?  

I'm just disappointed I've been paying for eye tests, when it turns out Gove also drives to test his. 

Do you need to drive with a patch on one eye to test them independently? 

Why are you so desperate to defend someone who is clearly making up preposterous schoolboy lies to excuse his conduct?

So I see.

Is this the LBC interview?  I just saw a clip of that, and he said he took seven attempts to pass his driving test. 

You'd think after taking his test seven times he might remember that the practical test starts with the examiner asking the candidate to read a number plate from 20m away - if the candidate can't do that they don't drive anywhere, don't even start the engine, the test is over.

Ironic that D-on-R says "credulity" when he means "credibility".  If he genuinely believes a word of the obvious horseshit he's trying to defend on here, he has credulity galore.  (Credibility not so much.)

You asked me but I didn’t see why my personal circumstances had any relevance to the issue so I declined to comment.

Perhaps you could explain your point in a more general way and less specific to me?

And that examiner gets you to drive up and down the same bit of dual carriageway? 
 

90% of my driving practice was done in my parents car. Obviously I was privileged to have parents with a car. Poor underprivileged people presumably have only driven in an instructors car. 

Not in the context of having a property with land. No. 

You continue to ignore the point that this trivially simple solution - whilst still insane - would have allowed him to find out without risking having to abandon his car and without risking his wife and child.

I thought you were exceptionally touchy to some of my criticism of Cummings before; this thread has me asking “Why?”.  I note my previous criticism was rooted in my experience in science not on any political leaning.  After all Cummings isn’t political in a party political sense; he’s not even a member of the Conservative party.

There is a delightful post on the Guardian website pointing out that in the 19th century, "the saying “Come, come! That’s Barney Castle!” is old Durham slang for “an expression often uttered when a person is heard making a bad excuse in a still worse cause”

I can see this coming into common parlance. 

And you don’t think that bias is showing now? 
 

The tribal solution is to go for a walk, then go for a short drive, then go for a longer drive...

Or maybe the real trivial solution is to think you’re pretty much ok and just go out for an hour to make absolutely sure. 

No.  I think it's perfectly reasonable for people of any political inclination to find absolute disgust at the shitshow of manipulation and lies that was put on yesterday.  I think it's valid to question how this person is at the core of our democracy with the cabinet falling over themselves to cover for him.  I think it's valid to question the absolutely flawed chain of "reasoning" given to his conduct.  You'll notice that I have not raised any political points in my reasoning, and nor do I intend to.  If this person was working for any other party I would have the exact same issues with them. 

No, it's the one you have ignored - repeatedly - of getting his wife to drive.  After all you yourself pointed out how important it was to take her along to Barney so she could drive him back if needed.   

Well you’re certainly using some emotional language. Seems you do have an axe to grind there.

I didn’t ignore it. I asked if you had a wife. 
 

I’d also point out that driving a car isn’t like driving a train. You don’t have to keep going to the next station once you’ve set off, you can stop and turn around at any point. 

As are a great many people including MPs and most of the press.  It is a new low to me for politics in the UK and has me questioning a lot of things.

If by “axe” you mean serious, well founded and highly evidenced concerns shared by the majority of posters on UKC, almost everyone I know “in real life”, the opposition and a growing number of Tory MP’s, you’re right.

1. You did not ask me.  You asked another poster
2. I have anyway given an answer which is more than the question deserves
3. What possible baring does my marital status have on the ability of DC’s wife to drive him?

> I’d also point out that driving a car isn’t like driving a train. You don’t have to keep going to the next station once you’ve set off, you can stop and turn around at any point. 

In the case why did he need to do an *extra* journey during lockdown at the peak of the pandemic when he could have simply stop at any point and swap with his wife?  
 

I don't know why anyone is bothering, patently this is from the same school of lies as had Boris making buses as his main hobby. 

No one goes for a drive to test whether they are up to it or not. It's absurd. It there was a scintilla of truth - i.e. he wasn't feeling great, and genuinely wasn't sure he could make the long drive home - then why not start for home and review after 30 miles? If he had to turn back then he wouldn't have been any worse off than if he'd gone to Barnard Castle, if he was feeling OK he would have saved himself 60 miles of driving.

But you know this is nonsense.

'You don’t have to keep going to the next station once you’ve set off, you can stop and turn around at any point. '

Ironically driving a train would be safer, you don't have to steer and the train will stop safely if you collapse.

You also don’t need to see where you are going and safety systems should prevail over going to fast or passing red signals.  Difficult to go for a walk if you feel sick though.

Outskirts of the town. Walk by a river. Hmm, let see, how many rivers are there in Barnrad Castle? Well there is one, the Tees.

Coming from Durham you would have to take a massive detour to get to the river if you didn't drive straight through the centre of the town.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Cock+o+the+North+-+A167,+Durham+DH1+3TX/Bar...

Oh, and guess where the Castle is? Yes it by the river next to the bridge on the A67 that they would have had to cross to go for their little walk. I wonder whether the riverside walk was up to the nature reserve.

Shame he hasnt answered this question.

This is what is so implausible about the excuse. I was once on holiday in Polzeath and got unwell the night before we were due to drive home to Manchester. I was the only driver. We considered lots of options, including staying another night or longer, places we could stop for breaks or book accommodation, spoke to a relative in Bristol about a couple of options. The one thing that I didn't do was think about driving to Newquay to check if I was OK to drive.

As it happened I was feeling a fair bit better the next day and the combination of a later start and more regular breaks go us safely home.

You really are making a fool of yourself....

Give it up mate, teenagers regularly come up with more plausable excuses. Even Hancock looked like he would have tw*tted Cummings if he'd popped his head around the corner during the middle of the press conference. Fair enough he f@#ked up, people might of forgiven him if he'd admitted it and apologised but he chose to be arrogant and condescending. If you're going to polarise politics then don't complain when the mob come knocking at your door.

Cummings is meant to be a comms genius with his finger on the pulse of the common man.  This is all of their own making.  He should of just admitted it as soon as possible, said sorry and moved on.  They could have ridden out the not resigning bit.  But now we have this total shit show:  70% of the public polled think he was wrong, 52% of Brexit voters think he's wrong (the magic number that must never be questioned).  Prominent Brexiteers think he should go, as do swathes of the right wing press.  Johnson's approval rating is in shitter over a couple of days.  If you wanted to totally f*ck up the handling of a scandal, I can't really imagine anything else you could do.  

Another big scandal to me is the attorney general compromising the political independence of the role.  Unbelievable.  Lucky they finally got a puppet in role in time for this.

The politicisation of the state, removing the checks and balances on the ruling party is really bad for the country no matter which party is in charge.

You can see what it’s done in the US and you can see what it’s done in China, I really don’t want live there in either of those systems, I’d like those in charge to have to follow the same rules as, and to be accountable to the rest of us.

You could almost be forgiven for thinking the fallout to this incident has been engineered to drive that polarising wedge further in too us. Going off some of the clueless and passionate defence I have seen of this on various social media sites I can only presume it’s working.  I think we should just skip the next 50 years and go to the point where the opposing sides fight it out in giant mecha suits like in Robo Jox.  

I wouldn't be too pessimistic, because the whole government line is falling apart tonight. With our PM nowhere in sight and Hancock (pushed out as so often as spokesman/fall guy) saying, yes, they will now review all the fines given to people who travelled for unjustifiable reasons during the lockdown. Just where does this now leave the police and magistrates? They have an impossible job now. They quite literally can't do a thing after the new precedent set by Lord High and Mighty Cummings, our Prime Minister. So the whole lockdown thing has been effectively completely wrecked. People can do almost whatever they like now with impunity.

The aftermath of this is going to make Watergate look very trivial, imo, because here, although it's equally scandalous it's resulted in thousands of unnecessary deaths, which need never have happened if we'd had a moderately competent PM. Instead, he went on holiday at the start of the crisis. And now they add insult to injury, yesterday, with an appalling load of pathetically inadequate, self-justifying 'arguments' (without a shred of remorse) from Dominic Cummings.

Shakespeare would have had a field day with this. One of the nastiest, most devious people in the whole of literature, Iago, being now outclassed by Cummings.

Everyone of every political persuasion, from the Cabinet, to the Socialist Worker Party can see that Cummings is lying.

The PM and Cabinet are just using Trump's tactics: lie even when everyone knows you're lying, because the political system doesn't have mechanisms to stop you. They think it's in their self interest, but I think it's an error of judgement: they're making matters worse for themselves because they've lost the support of the popular press, we'll see more resignations, the opposition is strong and so the government is becoming unstable.

But what are you up to? You don't really believe him do you? You do understand that that would make you incredibly stupid? The mind boggles, but at least it's some light relief in these troubling times.

I think people replying to this transparent (and thick as pigshit) troll* are making fools of themselves too.

*I refer to the poster known as DancingOnRock.

I've seen trolling on another thread....wasn't sure this was, I could be wrong though...

There must be only one person on this scepterd Isle who is confused about what "Barnard Castle" is. Let's put this to bed shall we. It's a pleasant market town on the banks of the River Tees; a popular destination for an outing. The ideal place to take your wife to on a sunny April day for a treat. There are other less salubrious places to visit in Co Durham but he didn't go to any of them. 

The whole country are being treated as fools by being expected to believe his preposterous test drive nonsense. 

Not only cummings, but Johnson, Gove and all the rest of them. If we let them get away with it then we deserve everything that's coming to us. 

I don’t think they’re trolling.  I’ve had scathing replies from them on previous threads where I have made criticisms of Cummings’ understanding of the science he fetishises.  I would very much like to know what motivates their defence of him.

We're not expected to believe it. He knows it's absurd and contemptuous, we're expected to mock, divide, squabble, polarise then ultimately suck it up like the cabinet gimps he has defending his mockery of our democracy. 

Yes, this isn't about Cummings anymore but the Cummings-Johnson project and with it their government of ghouls, zealots and inadequates. The choices they made collectively (by failing to resign if nothing else) this week, almost inexplicably bad decisions, they will have cost thousands of innocent lives by autumn. It's going to be a dirty fight to 'defend' them. 

Jk

So we now have an entire thread dedicated to Barnard Castle.

How strange  

Indeed. Why don’t you have an opinion on that? If you have a wife who drives, you might have a good idea why it’s relevant. But maybe you do and just don’t want to answer. That’s fine. 
 

I have a wife who drives and I have children.
 

We all have different circumstances. Our experiences often enlighten our opinions and sometimes they cloud them.  

It was never about Cummings in the first place. 

It was about the media machine. 

Its working well. They must be rubbing their hands together in glee as the advertising revenue starts rolling back in. They were getting pilloried by the public over their performances in press conferences up until last week. 

and I’m the stupid one? 

I don't understand why you are being so circumspect, could you just explain your point?

The media machine wouldn't have had anything to get excited about if Cummings hadn't driven much of the length of England to his parent's home and then gone to Barnard Castle to test his eyesight. If he'd stayed at home and behaved like much of the rest of the population, there would have been no headlines. 

However, look on the bright side. At least you now know that Barnard Castle is a town. 

In the words of the Daily Mail, "what planet are you on?".

Yes. You've made a complete tit of yourself.

I would very much like to see their point stated clearly and openly as well.  

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2020/05/26/EY5cXgFXQAIceGW-xla...

You should have a trip out someday, when all this is over. You'd like it. 

Need to take some of this for a test drive

https://www.brewdog.com/uk/barnard-castle-eye-test

But you should only take a small drive, say 30 minutes, after drinking a few... just to make sure you are okay to drive of course.

I haven't called you stupid, I don't have a view either way about your intelegence I'm afraid. I am astonished though that this is the ground on which you've chosen to make your stand!

Jk

All I got from your link was

"The page you are trying to view cannot be shown because the authenticity of the received data could not be verified."

How come all the government announcements on the BBC are not covered by the same state code?

No. Several posters have called me thick as pig shit. 
 

No one has told me whether they have a wife and 4 year old child yet. Speaks volumes to me and I’m not going to explain it. In fact no one on this thread has admitted to having a wife and child yet and I’m sure those that do, know why I’m asking, and are deliberately keeping quiet. 
 

But I’m not thick as pig shit. I know why I’m asking, and I know why no one is owning up to it. 
 

As I hinted at in my original post, human behaviour is very predictable. Especially in stressful situations. 
 

So come on, answer that simple question. It’s not a hard one. 

One poster has called you that (not me).  What I said in response to your rather feeble defence of DC's drive to Barnard Castle was "I guess you are assuming Cummings is thick as pig shit if he couldn't figure out an alternative." - you might want to re-read that if you thought I called you thick as pig shit.  I did not - unless (big scoobie doo reveal moment coming up) - you are Dominic Cummings...?

At 12:35 yesterday you asked MeMeMe "Do you have a wife?".  You have I believe twice told me that you asked me this question, yet you have never asked me this question.  I explained anyhow that I have a wife and that she has even driven me to Bishop Auckland for my birthday once.

To my best reading you have never asked anyone if they have a wife and a 4 year old child.  So I'm really not surprised nobody has told you this.  I do not believe it is necessary for anyone to answer in that specific a level of detail in order for you to explain what your point is - it's fair and reasonable to assume that many posters on here have a wife, and that many have a child who was, is, or will be 4 years old.

Your post does not ask any questions. 

So come on, why couldn't Dominic Cummings ask his wife to drive them back to London if DC became medically unfit to drive, when you suggest the reasons he had to take her - and by extension their child - on the drive to test DC's medical fitness to drive was incase she had to drive them back.   Which rather suggests you think she can drive them all when her husband is suddenly incapacitated at the wheel.

What is so secretive about your logic that you will only reveal it to a poster who has a wife and a 4-year old child?

I've got a wife and a 4 year old child, tell me. 

I do if a newborn counts. I genuinely haven't got a clue what you're obliquely hinting at. 

I've owned up. Now you explain clearly. 

Jk

Oh go on then, I’ve got a long term partner and a 6 year old and maybe it’s me who’s thick as pig shit but I still don’t know what you are on about.
This thread is starting to feel really pointless and unhealthy now so on that note I think I’m bowing out. Take care all.

Excellent post, Pete

You're quite right, I am "being treated as" a fool. And I'm being treated with utter contempt by Cummings and Johnson, who care for little except their own survival. But the HYPOCRISY and ENTITLEMENT of Cummings is breathtaking.... Cummings definitely believes in "one rule for all of you, another rule for me". And he's not sorry - he can endlessly justify his trip to himself and to anyone who will listen

And you're right again, "If we let them get away with it then we deserve everything that's coming to us", but that leaves me wondering, what on earth can I do about it before I get another vote years from now in the next general election??

It's an advert for 'Barnard Castle Eye Test' beer, it works for me, maybe you have extra paranoid settings on your browser and it doesn't like their SSL certificate.

Looks like he doesn’t have an answer.  Or he’s consulting with a solicitor and drawing up a very carefully put together statement...

Taking a guess at his motives (DoR's) for the odd question; As with Cummings, if i thought any of my kids were in danger, i'd quite happily break the guidance / advice / laws. What i wouldnt have done is lie about it, and expect my boss and other work colleagues to lie about it for me.

Perhaps he's sobered up.

I’m not telling anyone. Anyone in that situation will know what happens when you go on a two week break involving drivIng a couple of hundred miles with a 4 year old. The preparations you make etc. Probably a two car family. 
 

It’s not really worth trying to explain to anyone who hasn’t experienced that. 
 

Anyway. Looks like his trip was legal and Durham police have agreed that if they’d stopped him on his journey out to test his ability to safely drive long distance, they would have asked him to rerun to his house. 
 

Meanwhile protagonists and antagonists are getting themselves wound up and issuing death threats to each other. The atmosphere and hostility is one of the reasons he stated for leaving London. 
 

Anyway. We’ve had MPs shot and stabbed on their doorsteps and celebrities committing suicide due to press hounding. 
All very nice behaviour for a balanced normal society. #benice

I think there are at least three posters on this thread we don’t have a clue what you’re talking about, and who have taken small children on long drives and would be entirely happy to let their wife drive, and probably have done so.

You said you have a reason why Dominic Cummings could not let his wife drive them back to London and that you would share it if there was a parent with a four-year-old and a wife, and people have stepped up to the mark. So put up or shut up.  

> It’s not really worth trying to explain to anyone who hasn’t experienced that. 

Translation: I said it out loud and realised how absurdly stupid it sounded and now I’m embarrassed?

But why wouldn’t you let your wife drive?  This mysterious thing apparently obvious to all fathers of 4 year old children except those on this thread...  

Exactly. We all make decisions as autonomous people. The important thing about being a grown-up – let alone one of the most important grown-ups in the country – is to be prepared to standby those decisions clearly and openly, not hiding behind obfuscation, other people and statements written by solicitors.

”I made a decision at the time that in retrospect wasn’t necessary. I made a poor decision not to seek help from the many organisations in London and I apologise for my poor judgement and any mixed messages this has caused on the very important need to stay at home.” – Of course this assumes his story isn’t a cart full of horse shit…

Do you have a reference that shows his trip was legal? The best I can find is Durham police basically saying we won’t touch this with a 40 foot bargepole, but the Durham trip may or may not have been a violation of the law and they’d have turned him back in the Barney trip of they caught him.  

I was wrong, he's still pissed.

Maybe this is a extended job application for one of Cummings weirdo job positions? He needs to show unthinking dedication to the glorious leader to get to the second round of interviews.

Funnily enough this reminds me of my next door neighbours 7 and 8 year old kids playing and bickering in the garden...

Yes because you have nothing to explain with....it was a crass comment in the first place hinting at some kind of informed relevance. Now it just illustrates that you are not mature enough to accept that you made a naff comment and are trying to deflect, confuse and blame others....the press on this occasion.

In.about 12 or 13 years of being on UKC Forums I've never seen such a deferent denial and blind set of posts.

Do you think Dominic Cummings would rush to your defence for anything??! Not a chance...you are fodder to people like him...

... because if we p*ss off the Tories this much our careers are stuffed and there's no chance of a knighthood when we retire or getting promoted to a larger force or a nice consulting job with the Home Office.   FFS look what happened to that woman on the BBC.