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As with the Giro thread, a quick nod to Chris the Tall who would surely have started this had he still been with us.

I was waiting for someone else to do it but after that catch from Stokes just now I couldn't hold back any longer. Have you ever seen better?

England looking good in this first match but led by their fielding and bowling instead of batting this time.

Alan

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Ben_Climber 30 May 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Alan you beat me to it!

Batting wasn't as good as it could have been, but that bowling and fielding was phenomenal. 

I can't remember seeing a better catch! Stunning.

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In reply to Ben_Climber:

> I can't remember seeing a better catch! Stunning.

It was that good that if he had dropped it you would still have applauded him for the effort and the stats book would probably not have recorded a dropped catch!

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Alex@home 30 May 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Stunning catch and a great bowling performance, but I think the batting was pretty good as well. Yes it lacked the excitement of some matches but they got a challenging score on the board by playing within themselves. Unlike in the champions trophy semi a few years ago when they weren't able to adapt and ended up losing

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GrahamD 30 May 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Maybe the pessimist in me with England and the favourite tag. Id rather they'd been pushed a bit harder in this game.

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Offwidth 30 May 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Highlights late evening or early hours of the morning from today on Ch4 for those who won't give their money to Sky. Folks need to remember NZ lose the Rugby Union world cup quite often so don't get too carried away ! ;-)

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Seymore Butt 30 May 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Great result, but it sticks in the throat that four of the best in the team today were born overseas. Stokes - N.Zealand ; Morgan - Dublin ; Archer - Barbados ; Roy - S.Africa.

At least 3 of the team were born, bred and play for Yorkshire.

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Bobling 30 May 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Was in the garden this evening and my wife needed me to get something from the car.  She threw the keys to me and I stuck up one hand and caught them before turning and raising both arms to the imaginary crowd, sticking one hand on my hip and adopting a 'whose the man?' expression to my imaginary team mates.  Comedy gold I tell you ; ).

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I like climbing 31 May 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

What a catch ! 

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FunesTheMemorious 31 May 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Excellent performance by England. The batting was controlled if not spectacular and I think they knew that 300+ was a very strong score in the conditions.

They can't score 450 every game, and aiming for that rate in the wrong conditions could be costly. That said it's Trent Bridge up next!

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spidermonkey09 31 May 2019
In reply to Seymore Butt:

I'll bite, just to set the record straight, then I'll say no more on the subject.

Stokes moved to the UK at the age of 12.

Roy moved to the UK at the age of 10. Both he and Stokes played age group and representative cricket for England.

Archer is the son of a Windrush immigrant and is a British passport holder and citizen.

Morgan has wanted to play cricket for England since he was very young. Ireland did not have Test status at the time so this avenue wasn't open to him. 

This is a brilliant team that represents the UK's cultural and ethnic diversity better than any other. Deserving world number 1's and I hope they go all the way. They were brilliant yesterday, its becoming routine.

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Matt Vigg 31 May 2019
In reply to GrahamD:

I think they had a wake up call in the Aussie friendly, better that than in the tournament. Favourites is fair even if it feels a bit strange...

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In reply to Seymore Butt:

> Great result, but it sticks in the throat that four of the best in the team today were born overseas. Stokes - N.Zealand ; Morgan - Dublin ; Archer - Barbados ; Roy - S.Africa.

There is a whiff of unpleasant nationalism about this sort of comment, although I am pleased that you didn't lump Moeen and Adil Rashid in there - only those to English parents and born and bred in England are true English?

In the world we live in now, mixed parent nationalities, or a different heritage to that of your parents, are increasingly common. Roy and Stokes lived most of their lives in Britain and learnt their cricket here. 

I have Dutch friends - both parents - whose son played basketball for England. Yes, it was an easier team to get in but he had been brought up here since a young age and spent most of his youth in teams that fed the national set up. He felt English and was proud to play for England.

I always thought the hypocrisy of this attitude was never better demonstrated than towards Greg Rusedski. An English mother but never accepted because he didn't sound the part, meanwhile Michael Owen, with two Welsh parents got away with it because he did sound  the part.

Alan

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Lemony 31 May 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

West indies are sounding pretty good here. Interesting that it's another game being defined by the bowling performance thus far.

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Ben_Climber 31 May 2019
In reply to Lemony:

They are bowling very well.

I had money on England win yesterday and WI win today. Looking like a few beers for me this weekend

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Welsh Kate 31 May 2019
In reply to Lemony:

Windies brilliance of poor batting from Pakistan?

Oh dear, this is desperate. i was hoping for a decent game to mark to, but doesn't look like it'll last for long.

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Lemony 31 May 2019
In reply to Welsh Kate:

I think a bit of both. It's been a while since there was such a sustained period of controlled short pitched bowling but Pakistan have also made some real blunders. Not the first people to be bounced out of their comfort zone.

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In reply to Lemony:

That was terrible batting except for a suicide flurry at the end by Wahab.

However the Windies do look like they are better than their 8th place in the ODI rankings

Alan

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Harry Jarvis 31 May 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

I feel slightly sorry for the spectators, who would have turned up expecting to see 100 overs and it now looks like they'll see less than half that. Still, it'll give them an evening off. 

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james.slater 31 May 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Wonderful and terrifying to watch this latest group of WI fast bowlers run in. Pakistan looked completely unprepared for that kind of onslaught. It will be interesting to see if the other teams can stand up to that kind of bowling. 

Post edited at 12:47
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Ramblin dave 31 May 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Ah well, back to the Giro for the afternoon then.

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Bobling 31 May 2019
In reply to james.slater:

> Wonderful and terrifying to watch this latest group of WI fast bowlers run in. Pakistan looked completely unprepared for that kind of onslaught. 

I'm off to see Windies/Bangladesh at Taunton, can't wait - would be awesome to see Wi in full flow with bat and/or ball.  Anyone else going to see any?

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Welsh Kate 31 May 2019
In reply to Bobling:

No, I applied in the ballot for all the group matches in Cardiff but didn't get any, and then didn't get round to buying any that came up for open sale. otoh I do have a pile of marking to get through, and it's easier to listen on the radio whilst doing that ;-)

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james.slater 31 May 2019
In reply to Bobling:

Unfortunately not, the best im going to see this year is a Rapids/Lightning game. The Worcester pace attack is not quite the same thing but I will be rooting for another T20 tournament win! 

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ianstevens 31 May 2019
In reply to Welsh Kate:

> Windies brilliance of poor batting from Pakistan?

> Oh dear, this is desperate. i was hoping for a decent game to mark to, but doesn't look like it'll last for long.

Two games tomorrow thankfully!

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Matt Vigg 31 May 2019
In reply to Bobling:

That should last about 10 overs total then!

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Bobling 01 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Ooooh, NZ vs Sri Lanka today in Cardiff...worth a dash from Bristol to see if there are tickets? Or wait Afghanistan vs Australia in Bristol!

Seriously does anyone know the likelihood of getting in if you just turn up?  I can't imagine it being full for either of these games.

Post edited at 09:08
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stevieb 01 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

> There is a whiff of unpleasant nationalism about this sort of comment, although I am pleased that you didn't lump Moeen and Adil Rashid in there - only those to English parents and born and bred in England are true English?

> In the world we live in now, mixed parent nationalities, or a different heritage to that of your parents, are increasingly common. Roy and Stokes lived most of their lives in Britain and learnt their cricket here. 

I think many (most?) people would like the england team to be made up of players who dreamed of playing for England as a child. That is probably true of Stokes and Roy (and Jardine, Gubby Allen, cowdrey, Dexter, Malcolm, Hussain, Strauss etc). I’m not convinced that is true for Archer (or Pietersen, trott, greig etc). Many of these players moved for professional reasons. It totally makes sense for them as individuals,  but international sport is at risk from wealth disparities. In cricket, the IPL might reverse this or might exacerbate it. 

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Seymore Butt 01 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Fair comment Alan, but I'm of the age where it was in cricket i.e., born in Yorkshire (as I was) play for Yorkshire, born in England play for England. Sorry, if you were born somewhere else, you play somewhere else. But unfortunately that is not the way we are supposed to think these days. 

I'm not at all Nationalistic (unpleasant whiff or not) by the way, cos I'm an ardent remainer. 

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Welsh Kate 01 Jun 2019
In reply to Bobling:

Did you get to the Bristol game? It's just getting fun

Too easy for NZ, I need longer games to accompany the marking!

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Graeme Alderson 01 Jun 2019
In reply to Seymore Butt:

You mean like Basil d'Olivera or Sir Ranjitsinhji Vibhaji Jadeja or Duleepsinhji?

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Bobling 01 Jun 2019
In reply to Welsh Kate:

Cardiff was sold out so no go, and while there were a few tickets left for Bristol in the end we opted to stay home and watch on the telebox whilst choring around the house.  Great to see Afghanistan batting so freely!

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Wanderer100 02 Jun 2019
In reply to Seymore Butt:

> Fair comment Alan, but I'm of the age where it was in cricket i.e., born in Yorkshire (as I was) play for Yorkshire, born in England play for England. Sorry, if you were born somewhere else, you play somewhere else. But unfortunately that is not the way we are supposed to think these days. 

> I'm not at all Nationalistic (unpleasant whiff or not) by the way, cos I'm an ardent remainer. 

Some people seem to be very quick to point the finger whilst making accusations of racism, anti semetism, nationalism. Your innocent comment has been targeted and you have been labelled. By none other than the bloke who runs the website !! You'd think he would be more restrained wouldn't you?

Post edited at 07:27
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In reply to Seymore Butt:

> Fair comment Alan, but I'm of the age where it was in cricket i.e., born in Yorkshire (as I was) play for Yorkshire, born in England play for England. Sorry, if you were born somewhere else, you play somewhere else. But unfortunately that is not the way we are supposed to think these days. 

> I'm not at all Nationalistic (unpleasant whiff or not) by the way, cos I'm an ardent remainer. 

I was questioning the statement, not you, but I think you realised that. I agree that there is something good about watching the passion of a Steven Gerard for Liverpool, or Joe Root for Yorkshire, that you don’t get when Zlatan Ibrahimovic kisses his badge of whatever club he is playing for. 

The problem with the ‘born somewhere else, play somewhere else’ maxim is that it Isn’t as simple as that. To use some more examples - Mo Farah probably never dreamed of running for Britain when he was very young and he would have run with the same pride for whichever country took his family in.  Bradley Wiggins is half Australian and was born in Belgium but few question his Britishness like they question Chris Froome’s who out-English’s him with two British parents.

These complexities exist all over the place and if world sport was actually to revert to ‘where you were born’ rules there would probably be a lot of stateless athletes. At the very least you risk the possibility of having an attitude where someone like Wiggins wasn’t fully accepted by Britain, Belgium or Australia because of not quite having enough of any of them.

Alan

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In reply to stevieb:

> I think many (most?) people would like the england team to be made up of players who dreamed of playing for England as a child. That is probably true of Stokes and Roy (and Jardine, Gubby Allen, cowdrey, Dexter, Malcolm, Hussain, Strauss etc). I’m not convinced that is true for Archer (or Pietersen, trott, greig etc). Many of these players moved for professional reasons. It totally makes sense for them as individuals,  but international sport is at risk from wealth disparities. In cricket, the IPL might reverse this or might exacerbate it. 

I can't disagree with your assessment here - it is a grey scale and there is no doubt that money comes into it. Curiously the sport most effected by money at club level (football), is probably the least effected at international level as far as the England team is concerned, maybe less so for the other home nations. 

Jofra Archer is an interesting one though. His father is English therefore he has as much right to play for England as my kids have to play for Holland (half Dutch but brought up here). It isn't going to happen, since they aren't big sporty types, but I would defend vigorously the right for them to play for Holland, and they would do so with a passion since they have always identified as 'the dutch kid' at school.

Alan

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Graeme Alderson 02 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Bangladesh just posted 330 against the Saffers, could be an upset!

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In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Reply is looking a bit shaky too. 160-odd for 3.

In the context of the other debate on this thread, I think we could be missing the wonderful celebration of international diversity that some of these teams display. In just the surnames of the SA team you can spot 4 different cultural roots.

Alan

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Graeme Alderson 02 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

202 for 4 off 35.1 now. 

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Welsh Kate 02 Jun 2019
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Could be a close one!

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Welsh Kate 02 Jun 2019
In reply to Welsh Kate:

Not close at all!

Great victory for Bangladesh :-D

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Bobling 02 Jun 2019
In reply to Matt Vigg:

> That should last about 10 overs total then!

Or perhaps not!  They just beat SA!

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Graeme Alderson 02 Jun 2019
In reply to Welsh Kate:

Wasn't even close!

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Lemony 02 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Really good game, sad to see SA capitulating like that as there's so much talent there but gosh, I'd love to have been in amongst the bangladesh fans.

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In reply to Lemony:

> Really good game, sad to see SA capitulating like that as there's so much talent there but gosh, I'd love to have been in amongst the bangladesh fans.

It wasn't really a capitulation I didn't think. They were beaten by a team scoring 330 and then bowling really well. Bangladesh might be a force to be reckoned with. I think SA probably lost it when they won the toss and put Bangladesh in.

Alan

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BnB 02 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

> It wasn't really a capitulation I didn't think. They were beaten by a team scoring 330 and then bowling really well. Bangladesh might be a force to be reckoned with. I think SA probably lost it when they won the toss and put Bangladesh in.

> Alan

My son, who follows the one day game much more closely than I do, points out that Bangladesh has the best squad statistically. This result was far from a shock.

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Offwidth 03 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

If anything Bangladesh were the team who at one point in the field looked to risk throwing away their strong position, by fielding as nervously as any international team I have ever seen, when realising it might win an important match. Luckily they calmed down and got on with things.  As a team they have good stats and have also beaten SA before. The SA batting problems seemed to me to be more due to some good one day bowling than particularly  bad shots. 

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Ben_Climber 03 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Looking like good weather today at Trent Bridge and expecting a easy win for the England boys!

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In reply to Ben_Climber:

To use an over-used sporting cliche - it depends which Pakistan team turns up and, so far, it looks like it might be the good one.

Alan

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TomGB 03 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

England's body language doesn't look good. In the recent series against Pakistan I'd have backed us to chase 350 but I wouldn't bet on it now. Let down by some very poor fielding and sloppy bowling. 

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Ben_Climber 03 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

I spoke too soon didn't I!

Fair play to Pakistan for a great innings after their melt down against WI.

Uncharacteristic fielding from England there. If anyone can chase it down though it's England.

Fingers crossed. 

Predictions?

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james.slater 03 Jun 2019
In reply to Ben_Climber:

Roy and Bairstow quick half centuries, root to go at a run a ball 30, Morgan and Stokes out cheaply before Buttler smashes a big century to win in the 45th. Hows that for a prediction? 

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TomGB 03 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Jason Roy has had better days. Unless someone plays the game of their life that's that I reckon. 

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Ben_Climber 03 Jun 2019
In reply to james.slater:

James, a great prediction. 

Shame Roy's bottled it already. Still hope though in JB and JR can get 100+ partnership.

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james.slater 03 Jun 2019
In reply to Ben_Climber:

Yes, my Roy prediction rather fell apart! If these two can put 100 on I think England will be in. Jonny Bairstow is looking in ominous form after his first baller last week!

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In reply to Ben_Climber:

> Shame Roy's bottled it already. Still hope though in JB and JR can get 100+ partnership.

They are riding their luck a bit and England have used up their review. However, England do bat deep so it could still be on and they are up with the rate at the moment.

Alan

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In reply to james.slater:

Can you keep quiet ;)

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Ben_Climber 03 Jun 2019
In reply to james.slater:

James, stop cursing things mate! 

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james.slater 03 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Haha, my lips are sealed, I wont utter another word! 

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This is getting exciting!

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balmybaldwin 03 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

A few more wides like that will help!

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In reply to balmybaldwin:

Poor performance by England. Bad fielding and bowling especially in the last five overs of the Pakistan innings lost them that. With five to go England were up with the rate and had lost 1 wicket fewer. They should have got them. Moeen looked shockingly out of nick.

Alan

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spidermonkey09 03 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

As my dad just texted, moeen couldn't hit a cow's arse with a banjo at the moment! Disappointed with that all round. Hopefully it's a wake up call.

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Welsh Kate 04 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

It's been an exciting morning here in Cardiff, though I'm following it on the radio rather than at the ground, and I can't hear it because we've got the windows closed as it's quite chilly here. It's now raining, though looks like showers coming through.

Anyway, well done Afghanistan on fighting back so well, let's hope the showers don't disrupt things too much.

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Bobling 10 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Random post as the thread's gone a bit quiet.  The random guitar players that pop up in this world cup make me think of the guitar player from Mad Max: Fury Road every time, now they may do so for you too.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozmjV_VLYyo

You're welcome!

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Bobling 16 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Rohit putting the Pakistani attack to the sword at old Trafford, and all I can think is how he looks like Bernard from Westworld if you put a little pair of specs on him. Oh wait, not now he has taken his helmet off to celebrate his ton...

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Go Bangladesh here. Building up to a good finish. 

99 of 110 balls with 7 wickets in hand.

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Welsh Kate 17 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Following on TMS but it's an exciting game!

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In reply to Welsh Kate:

Although becoming less exciting as they cruise to victory. First successful run chase over 300 in this WC. 

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Welsh Kate 17 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Yep, looking forward to watching the highlights of this.

Well done, Bangladesh. I know the WIndies bowling hasn't been stellar, but you can only hit what you're bowled!

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Bobling 17 Jun 2019
In reply to Matt Vigg:

>>I'm off to see Windies/Bangladesh at Taunton, can't wait - would be awesome to see Wi in full flow with bat and/or ball.  Anyone else going to see any?

> That should last about 10 overs total then!

Well what a game!  BAN-GLA-DESH! BAN-GLA-DESH!

Felt for the Windies fans though, and Andre Russell was positively hobbling about the field.  Support for Bangladesh was massive. 

Had a nice curry from one of the stalls and asked "Who are you suporting today?"..the reply "India".  

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ianstevens 17 Jun 2019
In reply to Bobling:

> I'm off to see Windies/Bangladesh at Taunton, can't wait - would be awesome to see Wi in full flow with bat and/or ball.  Anyone else going to see any?

Off to SA/NZ on Wednesday - fingers crossed it a) stays dry and b) south africa remember they aren't shit

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Welsh Kate 18 Jun 2019
In reply to ianstevens:

No surprise, but the England scorecard's looking very healthy.

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stevieb 18 Jun 2019
In reply to Welsh Kate:

> No surprise, but the England scorecard's looking very healthy.


I just knew it was a mistake not to promote Buttler ahead of Morgan.

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Welsh Kate 18 Jun 2019
In reply to stevieb:

I'm feeling quite sorry for Afghanistan now

And now Root and Morgan are out, and you've got Buttler and Stokes batting!!

Post edited at 13:45
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Graeme Alderson 18 Jun 2019
In reply to stevieb:

Can Butler and Stokes get us to 400!

Morgan gets World Record 17 sixes in an innings then gets out. A century in 17 balls! Bonkers!

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Sean Kelly 18 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Golly, England on the ropes with 6 wickets down!

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stevieb 18 Jun 2019
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

> Morgan gets World Record 17 sixes in an innings then gets out. A century in 17 balls! Bonkers!

Astonishing. Just think what he would have been capable of, if he hadn't been injured.

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Graeme Alderson 18 Jun 2019
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

And you can watch them all http://www.espncricinfo.com/video/clip/_/id/26999795

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Ben_Climber 21 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Not a bad start

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Oceanrower 21 Jun 2019
In reply to Ben_Climber:

One an over run rate!

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In reply to Oceanrower:

They are getting hold of it a bit now. 4.8 run rate.

"Can you get the runs Fernando?"

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Graeme Alderson 21 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

232/9.

I am not going to tempt fate by commenting n England's likelihood of victory.

But thanks a bunch Alan, I have had bloody Abba playing inside my head for the last few hours

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TomGB 21 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Oh James....

Hitting 5 beautiful shots and getting out for under 30 every single time does not make for an International cricketer I'm afraid. 

Post edited at 15:05
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Wanderer100 21 Jun 2019
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

> 232/9.

> I am not going to tempt fate by commenting n England's likelihood of victory.

Could be a trickier target than it first appeared to be. Bairstow sleeping at the crease and Vince wafting outside off. Malinga looks dangerous. We shall see.

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Wanderer100 21 Jun 2019
In reply to Wanderer100:

Now it's a contest.  Malinga bowling beautifully and England struggling to achieve the modest target.  If Stokes gets out before 45 overs are bowled it will be a proper nail biter.

Post edited at 17:22
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Wanderer100 21 Jun 2019
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

A poor batting display by England with Ali, Rashid and Archer throwing away their wickets. Only Stokes and Root looked like they knew how to bat effectively against a motivated and accurate Sri Lankan attack.

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Bobling 22 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

India set Afghanistan 225...can they do it?  

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Wanderer100 22 Jun 2019
In reply to Bobling:

Squeaky bum time for India. Another couple of 6s will do nicely for Afghanistan. 

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Bobling 22 Jun 2019
In reply to Wanderer100:

Sheesh, then Windies just fall short against NZ.  Two games where I was desperately rooting for the losing side and they both came so close!  Still, really enjoying the cricket!

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Bobling 24 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

I seem to be squatting this thread!

This weekend I came across the 'Bodyline' series on Youtube  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4qJbqsTGoY  . It takes me right back to the first Test series I ever followed in detail, England vs Pakistan in 1992 as this showed on TV at the same time.  I thought Douglas Jardine was the coolest cat ever to walk the earth.

I was watching it and doing a spot of ironing this afternoon when my eldest (8) came in just when Jardine is asking Larwood to hit a coin with his delivery to exploit Bradman's weak spot.  After dinner the lad took himself out to the back garden and spent half an hour practicing his bowling.  Good stuff, especially as I'd watched him bowl in a tournament on Sunday and lots of his deliveries were more Steve Harmison first delivery at the Gabba in 2006 than Harold Larwood!  Now I just need to show him the bit where Bradman is hitting a ball against a water tank with a stump and I'll have the next England prodigy on my hands.

Anyway, where was I?  Oh yes.  England vs Australia tomorrow, expect the thread will fill up again then!  Fingers crossed for Morgan and the lads.

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In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Australia today! its the hope that kills you so have decided to abandon hope for the time being

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Wanderer100 25 Jun 2019
In reply to Bobling:

I hope England give the convicts a good thrashing but unfortunately they seem to be in very good form, so much so I make them favourites to win. Jason Roy is proving to be a big loss as Vince cannot match his consistent big hitting. It will be a nail biter.

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Ben_Climber 25 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Yes, Roy a big loss as Vince is useless. 

The thought of him opening this summer in the ashes is laughable!

At least Archer is fit, maybe get some joy against them under cloudy skies. Need someone other than Root to step up today!

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In reply to Ben_Climber:

Good toss to win I think, although England have been better posting a score in this WC.

Alan

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TomGB 25 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

No chance of chasing anything with Vince playing, might as well just give us 20 runs and not bother with his innings. 

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Not a great start. Although Finch and Warner have played very well.

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Ben_Climber 25 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Looking like it is going to be a tough day! If anyone can chase a big total though....

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the sheep 25 Jun 2019
In reply to Ben_Climber:

Smith coming in to a torrent of boos

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Ben_Climber 25 Jun 2019
In reply to the sheep:

Rightly so.

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In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Dammit thetve got me, enjoying the game and hope's crept in... 

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Bobling 25 Jun 2019
In reply to JJ Krammerhead III:

I must not hope. Hope is the mind-killer. Hope is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my hope. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the hope has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

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Postmanpat 25 Jun 2019
In reply to TomGB:

> No chance of chasing anything with Vince playing, might as well just give us 20 runs and not bother with his innings. 


20 would be a bit generous. How about zero?

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In reply to Bobling:

bloody useless. Well I don't think anyone expected much of a contribution from Vince anyway.

Post edited at 14:37
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ianstevens 25 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Yet more evidence Hales needs calling up

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In reply to ianstevens:

I guess that is that then.

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ianstevens 25 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Australia showing England how they should have bowled - full!

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ianstevens 25 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Hopefully Morgan can drop anchor

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ianstevens 25 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

> I guess that is that then.

seems that way

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Ben_Climber 25 Jun 2019
In reply to ianstevens:

What's that?

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TomGB 25 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Jesus wept. What is it about England sides in any game crumbling under the slightest of pressure. 

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ianstevens 25 Jun 2019
In reply to Ben_Climber:

Which one was this in response to?

n.b. Another loose shot, another wicket. Not looking great.

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Wanderer100 25 Jun 2019
In reply to ianstevens:

> Which one was this in response to?

> n.b. Another loose shot, another wicket. Not looking great.

Awful.....just awful. I can't say I had much hope before play got under way but now there is pretty much no hope. England buckle yet again......

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stevieb 26 Jun 2019
In reply to Wanderer100:

England in big trouble now. If Pakistan see off NZ then we probably need to win both our last two games. 

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the sheep 26 Jun 2019
In reply to stevieb:

At this rate Pakistan Vs Bangladesh could be a vital game for England 

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Postmanpat 26 Jun 2019
In reply to the sheep:

> At this rate Pakistan Vs Bangladesh could be a vital game for England 


  It will be irrelevant. Best accept the inevitable and start backing India to beat the tamperers.

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All looking a bit dubious here. NZ looked like they were batting on my front garden, Pakistan look like they are on my dad's snooker table.

Alan

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Postmanpat 27 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

  I'm very disappointed by the atmosphere at the World Cup games, especially in the South Asian games. Why can't they leave the family at home, get their tops off to display their handsome beer bellies, swear a lot, and chant some drunken "songs" like our wonderful barmy army?

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Bobling 28 Jun 2019
In reply to Postmanpat:

*Re-enter Bobling stage left to the recently deserted thread*

That's a little unprompted or have you been to lots of the games yourself?  In my experience the Barmies actually have a pretty keen eye on what is going on, but I'll grant you you can hear "Everywhere we go..." too many times. 

At Taunton the other week a few of the staff were making unprompted comments about the poor behaviour of some of the Bangladesh fans, and I must say I didn't see very many families supporting Bangladesh, just lots of men (in contrast to the Indian crowds). But hey I'd be leaping to assumptions to draw any sort of conclusions from that, in fact to do so is probably the result of my own unconscious bias so instead I'll just try and enjoy the cricket in the knowledge that some fans of all teams can be annoying if they get a little too overexcited, but that's the flip-side of 'atmosphere'...anyway where was I?  Oh yeah...

COME ON SOUTH AFRICA!

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Oceanrower 28 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Nice of the Saffers to turn up at last just in time to haul our arses out of the fire!

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In reply to Oceanrower:

> Nice of the Saffers to turn up at last just in time to haul our arses out of the fire!

Only half out really. Pakistan are the big danger now unless Bangladesh beat India, in which case they become the big danger.

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Oceanrower 29 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

An unexpected Afghanistan win would be useful!

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Postmanpat 30 Jun 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

England 200-1 after 30 overs. How will we manage to blow it from here?

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Matt Vigg 30 Jun 2019
In reply to Postmanpat:

India building some pressure, plenty of time for a collapse....

Edit: 2 minutes later out goes Bairstow.

Post edited at 12:51
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wynaptomos 30 Jun 2019
In reply to Postmanpat:

> England 200-1 after 30 overs. How will we manage to blow it from here?

You brexiters are always putting your country down

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mbh 30 Jun 2019
In reply to thread:

Not many wickets down, but the required run rate is creeping up : 9.4 runs an over needed from the remaining 18.

Their (India's) run rate has been below par the whole way. 

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stevieb 30 Jun 2019
In reply to wynaptomos:

> You brexiters are always putting your country down

Just one brexit free thread? Yeah? 

I was only following the game on text. Got nervous when england lost momentum, but we’re still in the fight. England v NZ could be winner takes all. 

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BnB 01 Jul 2019
In reply to stevieb:

> Just one brexit free thread? Yeah? 

> I was only following the game on text. Got nervous when england lost momentum, but we’re still in the fight. England v NZ could be winner takes all. 

Rain would put both through on run rate. It'll be just our luck when the sun shines.

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Graeme Alderson 01 Jul 2019
In reply to BnB:

The forecast shows no rain for Eng v NZ, nor for Pakistan v Bangladesh!

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stevieb 01 Jul 2019
In reply to stevieb:

A little feel good story from the cricket. 

My cousin’s kids went to the windies v nz game, and in the aftermath they uploaded a video of them doing the Sheldon Cottrell celebration. He commented on it, leading to 1/2 million views. The following week, unprompted, he congratulated Dougie on taking 4 wickets in a primary school game. 

Then gave them free tickets to today’s game and met up with them before the match. 

What a total gent. 

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the sheep 03 Jul 2019
In reply to stevieb:

Big game today, we need the win!

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In reply to the sheep:

Nice start but a little chancy so far maybe. Glad they batted first though.

Post edited at 10:42
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Oceanrower 03 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Just topping 8 an over after 3 overs.

Keen!

Too keen?

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Oceanrower 03 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

And that bloke called Extras doesn't seem too shabby!

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balmybaldwin 03 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

That's quite a start

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TomGB 03 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

very nice. Would take a collapse of....England...proportions...to

Ah. Not counting chicken just yet but happy so far

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Bit of a wobble. Would any England game be the same without one?

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TomGB 03 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

FFS. Bairstow must be fuming, all that good work let down by the middle order. Again. 

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In reply to TomGB:

Not looking good. Only comfort here is that this wicket suddenly appears to be unplayable

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the sheep 03 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Need to make sure we play out all the overs now.

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TomGB 03 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Who is it that keeps saying Buttler is some sort of dangerman big-hitter. 6 centuries in 138 ODIs and been shite this world cup. 

Post edited at 14:04
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the sheep 03 Jul 2019
In reply to TomGB:

Very good of England, with the possibility of taking the game away from NZ they have given them a sniff.

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Graeme Alderson 03 Jul 2019
In reply to the sheep:

291/7 with 10 balls left, 300 should be on the cards!

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TomGB 03 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Here's hoping Plunkett and Woakes can go to town on this wicket the way NZ have in the 2nd half of the match. Plunkett and especially Rashid playing a tidy little spell to be fair. 

Post edited at 14:17
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Graeme Alderson 03 Jul 2019
In reply to TomGB:

Rashid just out

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balmybaldwin 03 Jul 2019
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

I think 305 is a reasonable total here... especially as the pitch appeared to slow considerably... Bowlers need to do the do now

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BnB 03 Jul 2019
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Feels 20 runs short to me so I hope I'm wrong.

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stevieb 03 Jul 2019
In reply to TomGB:

> Who is it that keeps saying Buttler is some sort of dangerman big-hitter. 6 centuries in 138 ODIs and been shite this world cup. 

Buttler actually has 9 ODI centuries in 116 innings. Batting at 5 or below he has the most centuries in ODI history (7 equal with Dhoni and Yuvraj who both took more innings). Lower order batsmen don't normally have time for centuries. He's also scored his runs at a higher rate than almost everyone else, and he's a more cool headed finisher than a lot of our batsmen. Roy, Bairstow, Morgan and Buttler are expected to be hit or miss. He is, however, a bang average wicket keeper.

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ianstevens 03 Jul 2019
In reply to balmybaldwin:

> I think 305 is a reasonable total here... especially as the pitch appeared to slow considerably... Bowlers need to do the do now

Solid start in that respect - pitch looking unplayable

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the sheep 03 Jul 2019
In reply to stevieb:

Guptil a goner now. Good catch by the bang average keeper by the sounds of it   ;-)  

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stevieb 03 Jul 2019
In reply to the sheep:

> Guptil a goner now. Good catch by the bang average keeper by the sounds of it   ;-)  

Yeah, looked good, but Jack Russell would’ve caught it without getting his sleeves dirty  

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Graeme Alderson 03 Jul 2019
Graeme Alderson 03 Jul 2019
In reply to stevieb:

Their danger man Williamson just gone 61-3 from 15.1

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Graeme Alderson 03 Jul 2019
In reply to stevieb:

And now Taylor gone 69/4 off 16.4

Two new batsmen at the crease and the RRR slowly creeping up

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balmybaldwin 03 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

124/5 now hopefully that will slow them down again

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In reply to balmybaldwin:

6 now. Looks safe I think. NZ are starting to worry about net run rate.

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Martin W 03 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

> NZ are starting to worry about net run rate.

I doubt it.  From the BBC live feed:

"If Pakistan bowl first on Friday they cannot get through on run rate - if they bat first and score 400 they would have to bowl Bangladesh out for 14."

EDIT:  Hmm, seems like Mr Zaltzman has re-done his sums in a the space of ten minutes:

"If [NZ] only get about 180 today, Pakistan could get 400, bowl Bangladesh out for 85 and go through."  (At 17:05 - previous quote was timed at 16:55.)  Mind you, that was after five overs with only five runs coming off the bat.

I miss Bill Frindall.

Post edited at 17:18
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Alex@home 03 Jul 2019
In reply to Martin W:

Well played England. Let's just hope the boys can get beyond a semi this time

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Offwidth 04 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

I'm mighty relieved. I accidently caught a tiny glimpse of some play and thought I saw England on 114 for 4!  As I watched the recording, when into the hundreds I was thinking how on earth can they lose all those wickets that quickly ? . It seems the pitch really slowed up after 25 overs and was much harder to score on, so the England innings was more impressive than it looked. With good weather and no more injuries England should be marginal tournament favorites for me and without the pressure that would have been there if they were say 8 and 1. Its been really good seeing the lower ranked teams doing so well.. especially Bangladesh. 

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the sheep 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Offwidth:

What should be a frenetic innings from Pakistan is rather sedate.  TMS are passing the time debating whether Michael Vaughan  is Banksy 

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stevieb 07 Jul 2019
In reply to the sheep:

Australia now. They must be favourites, but I think we have more chance of beating then at Edgbaston than at Lords. Hopefully the Hollies will be rocking. 

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the sheep 10 Jul 2019
In reply to stevieb:

The Kiwis, despite posting a low total have really got a good chance to win this!

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Ardo 10 Jul 2019
In reply to the sheep:

Must be favourites now. Didn't see this coming!

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joem 10 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Biggest upset of the world cup?

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the sheep 10 Jul 2019
In reply to joem:

This is all very close!!

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Welsh Kate 10 Jul 2019
In reply to the sheep:

Surely it's over now?

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the sheep 10 Jul 2019
In reply to Welsh Kate:

Certainly favours the kiwis 

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GrahamD 10 Jul 2019
In reply to the sheep:

Certainly didn't see that coming this morning. 

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derryclimbs 10 Jul 2019
In reply to GrahamD:

What a game. Even just getting the sneaky BBC updates on my PC, that was edge of the seat stuff. 

Proud kiwi here btw

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In reply to derryclimbs:

Nice one. I was away but that looks like a thriller. Sad to have missed it.

Alan

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the sheep 11 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Big game today, why did I agree to be out of the office this morning!!

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In reply to the sheep:

Damn, lost the toss. Batting second

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Postmanpat 11 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

> Damn, lost the toss. Batting second


  I bet the aussies weighted the coin.

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In reply to Postmanpat:

I think Finch and Warner are actually the same person - cloned.

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Hat Dude 11 Jul 2019
In reply to Postmanpat:

>   I bet the aussies weighted the coin.

I bet Finch pocketed it afterwards too!

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In reply to Hat Dude:

review for Finch first ball

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Postmanpat 11 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Finch gone for a duck 4-1

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Postmanpat 11 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Warner caught behind 10-2

Post edited at 10:42
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In reply to Postmanpat:

what a start

Post edited at 10:43
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Postmanpat 11 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Better now! 14-3 Handscombe bowled Woakes.

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Bobling 11 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Wow.  Oh to be at Edgbaston today!

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Hat Dude 11 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

14 -3  Blimey!!!

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Postmanpat 11 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Phew! 117-4. Carey out but Smith still building...

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Postmanpat 11 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

118-5 ! Stoinis out to Rashid second ball...

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In reply to Postmanpat:

was getting worried for a minute there, but better now

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Postmanpat 11 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

157-6 Maxwell out

166-7 38th over

Post edited at 13:16
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In reply to Postmanpat:

This is looking good.

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the sheep 11 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Arse, Bairstow gone 

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In reply to the sheep:

I think we are a few wickets short of a crisis, especially with Rooty going at 2 runs a ball at present.

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There's me and my big mouth. Bairstow's fault that one - he should never have reviewed.

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Bobling 11 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Crisis, did someone say crisis?  Surely not even we could stuff it up from here. 

Don't Panic Captain Mainwaring!

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Wanderer100 11 Jul 2019
In reply to Bobling:

England making it look easy smashing Starc all over the park. Got to love giving the convicts a good thrashing!

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Postmanpat 11 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

22 runs required from 20.3 overs, 8 wickets in hand.....

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john arran 11 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

I wonder what would have happened had they won the toss? 

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stevieb 11 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Fabulous victory. Only heard it on the radio but I think my ‘prediction’ that the Hollies would be rocking came true. 

Great to see Woakes get man of the match. Would’ve been easy to give it to Roy, but it was those first 10 hours that won it. 

Next to Lords and new world champions one way or another. 

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The New NickB 11 Jul 2019
In reply to stevieb:

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but Channel 4 have secured the rights to the final from Sky and will be showing the whole match.

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Rog Wilko 12 Jul 2019
In reply to Postmanpat:

Loved the comment from someone on TMS when England was on 120 for none - " Australia need an asteroid strike".

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boriselbrus 13 Jul 2019
In reply to Rog Wilko:

And the follow up 

"Wouldn't matter if there was an asteroid, Roy would just smash it out of the ground"

 

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the sheep 14 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Here we go, the big day and with a total lack of foresight I’m at a swim gala all day. Thank goodness for TMS, hope the battery in my headphones lasts!!

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Wanderer100 14 Jul 2019
In reply to the sheep:

Nail biting stuff! How good was New Zealand's total? We won't know, I suspect, until the 30th over of England's innings.  England have ridden their luck thus far!

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Welsh Kate 14 Jul 2019
In reply to Wanderer100:

I fear our luck may have just run out!

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Welsh Kate 14 Jul 2019
In reply to Wanderer100:

This is not the England who've been playing such great limited overs cricket for months. Pressure must be playing a bit part.

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Wanderer100 14 Jul 2019
In reply to Welsh Kate:

Yep. My guess is England won't make 200. 

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Lusk 14 Jul 2019
In reply to Wanderer100:

Oooo, I don't know, could be an exciting finish.

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stevieb 14 Jul 2019
In reply to Lusk:

Plunkett to win it with a six? 

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Wanderer100 14 Jul 2019
In reply to Lusk:

Believe me, I hope I'm wrong but if one of these 2 get out it starts to look a bit wobbly! Woakes next then Plunkett or Rashid. The lack of pace in the pitch is creating the problems for the batsmen as well as pin point accuracy by the Kiwi bowlers.

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Wanderer100 14 Jul 2019
In reply to stevieb:

8.5 per over required!! Against Trent Boult as well. It's going to be very difficult from here. A couple of 6s will restore some faith!

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earlsdonwhu 14 Jul 2019
In reply to Wanderer100:

Squeaky bums

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Wainers44 14 Jul 2019
In reply to earlsdonwhu:

Dull game cricket.... 

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the sheep 14 Jul 2019
In reply to Wainers44:

This is nail biting stuff!!!!

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stevieb 14 Jul 2019
In reply to Wanderer100:

Now 15 per over off boult. Desperate 

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Wanderer100 14 Jul 2019
In reply to stevieb:

Just make Ben Stokes Sir Ben right now! 

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Welsh Kate 14 Jul 2019
In reply to Wanderer100:

Unbelievable!

Cricket on the telly, tennis on the laptop, and you can't slide the thinnest piece of paper between the opponents in either game.

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Lusk 14 Jul 2019
In reply to Wanderer100:

This is quite exciting!!!

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Mal Grey 14 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Its England. We've gone to penalties. Feeling lucky?

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Postmanpat 14 Jul 2019
In reply to Mal Grey:

Never in doubt....,

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Welsh Kate 14 Jul 2019
In reply to Mal Grey:

Wow, WHAT a game!

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Lusk 14 Jul 2019
In reply to Mal Grey:

Epic!

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Wanderer100 14 Jul 2019
In reply to Mal Grey:

Unbelievable! A game where New Zealand didn't deserve to lose. Finest of fine margins.

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Mal Grey 14 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Yaaaay! Astonishing stuff. 

Probably an occasion when a draw would have been the right result. But heh, I'll take it!

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Wanderer100 14 Jul 2019
In reply to Mal Grey:

Spare a thought for David Willey. He must be going through very mixed emotions.

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stevieb 14 Jul 2019
In reply to Wanderer100:

Wonderful to win, but surely it should've gone to another super over with a different bowler. Count back was cruel even if they did know. 

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Pullhard 14 Jul 2019
In reply to stevieb:

Congrats! 

Why could nz not tie the game with the same score just play another over 

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GrahamD 14 Jul 2019
In reply to stevieb:

As a recognition of the bowling, surely wickets would have made a fairer countback ? Still buzzing.

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john arran 14 Jul 2019
In reply to GrahamD:

That's the finest day sat on my arse watching screens I've had in a very long time! Couldn't even spare the time to check in on UKC!

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ianstevens 14 Jul 2019
In reply to stevieb:

> Wonderful to win, but surely it should've gone to another super over with a different bowler. Count back was cruel even if they did know. 

Count back on wickets would surely have been fairer (said as an England fan!)

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Sean Kelly 14 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Up there with Jonny's dropkick, Man U's injury time winner against BM and winning WC in '66. I'm shattered!

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earlsdonwhu 14 Jul 2019
In reply to ianstevens:

Obviously, delighted with the win but I have a teeny bit of unease with the system that favours hitting boundaries. Why should a hoik to cow corner for four be worth more than two elegant cover drives for two each?

Having said that , it was good to see a pitch which gave plenty for the bowlers . Too often, one day cricket is dominated by high scoring slog fests on flat tracks.

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The New NickB 14 Jul 2019
In reply to ianstevens:

I think either is fair, but whichever it is will have a small impact on the strategy of the game, or at least that last over of the English innings!

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derryclimbs 14 Jul 2019
In reply to earlsdonwhu:

That is by far the best game of cricket I've ever watched. As a kiwi, I'm not even gutted. Someone had to win, and when both teams play so well it's got to come down to a bit of luck. We've had ours in the past but today was your day. We'll done with so much pressure on the team.

Now I've got to try and explain to a non cricket household why that was so incredible and will never be repeated! 612 balls bowled and still tied! Just Wow!!

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Graeme Alderson 14 Jul 2019
In reply to derryclimbs:

And I was sat on a flippin plane for the last 5+2 overs so couldn't even follow it on my phone

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MonkeyPuzzle 14 Jul 2019
In reply to derryclimbs:

That was unreasonably, indescribably entertaining sport. Wow.

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Bobling 15 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Watched from a flat in Bayeux, with dad, brother and two cousins.  Cor blimey!  That unintentional four off the bat.  Ben Stokes I salute you!

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Bulls Crack 15 Jul 2019
In reply to earlsdonwhu:

> Obviously, delighted with the win but I have a teeny bit of unease with the system that favours hitting boundaries. Why should a hoik to cow corner for four be worth more than two elegant cover drives for two each?

Because: De dah de dah. De dah de dah. De dahdy de dahdy,  de dah de dah.

etc

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Pan Ron 15 Jul 2019
In reply to earlsdonwhu:

> Obviously, delighted with the win but I have a teeny bit of unease with the system that favours hitting boundaries. Why should a hoik to cow corner for four be worth more than two elegant cover drives for two each?

I think the bigger annoyance is that the team that got bowled out gets to bat again for another over.  But I suspect the rules are set to encourage batters to smash the ball as much as they can.  I like the format and it has made cricket far more interesting for me.

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Hat Dude 15 Jul 2019
In reply to derryclimbs:

> That is by far the best game of cricket I've ever watched. As a kiwi, I'm not even gutted. Someone had to win, and when both teams play so well it's got to come down to a bit of luck. We've had ours in the past but today was your day. We'll done with so much pressure on the team.

Brilliant sportsmanship from the New Zealand team in the way they accepted the result with such good grace; especially considering the fluke extra 4 runs in the final over.

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GrahamD 15 Jul 2019
In reply to john arran:

I was still buzzing come bed time. There shouldn't have been a loser ( in the sense that noone deserved to lose it).

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In reply to Hat Dude:

> Brilliant sportsmanship from the New Zealand team in the way they accepted the result with such good grace; especially considering the fluke extra 4 runs in the final over.

Absolutely. It was a magnificent sporting event in so many ways.

Failing here to convince the UKC advertising manager who is under the misguided idea that the tennis was "equally as tense, exciting and comparable as a sporting drama"! Seriously!

Alan

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Lemony 15 Jul 2019
In reply to Pan Ron:

> I think the bigger annoyance is that the team that got bowled out gets to bat again for another over. 

Just think of it as a second innings, albeit a short one. The batsmen who came out for NZ were both out too.

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toad 15 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

In fairness, the tennis was a little bit more in yer face unremitting agonizing  exertion for hours than the rather more....relaxed pace of the cricket

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GravitySucks 15 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

I think Stephen Fry summed it up perfectly ...

"The Greatest Match. I feel for New Zealand who played so so well. Luck went England’s way, but what a great side they are. I feel sorry for those who don’t get cricket. They miss the most exquisite feelings of joy, agony, tension, thrill, surprise, glory and wonder. #CWC19Final"

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The New NickB 15 Jul 2019
In reply to toad:

There was nothing relaxed about the last few hours of that match and we haven’t even mentioned that catch.

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jezb1 15 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

I’m happy for Boult that Stokes got those fluke runs. If England had managed a win, it could have been a terrible feeling for him having fluffed that catch on the ropes.

It almost seemed like fate that England won it yesterday after all the rebuilding since the last World Cup. 

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GrahamD 15 Jul 2019
In reply to jezb1:

Isn't amazing how quickly we've come to expect those 1 : 2 boundary catches to be taken ? Fielding standards are in a different league compared to a few years back.

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jezb1 15 Jul 2019
In reply to GrahamD:

Next level isn’t it! I thought that catch was a given and that he’d throw it to the other fielder if needed!

Some of the catches and general fielding has been just as good as “that” ball to Stokes or those massive West Indian sixes. 

I really like the runs saved graphic throughout the competition.

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The New NickB 15 Jul 2019
In reply to GrahamD:

I was pondering the increase of athleticism in the game, particularly as they kept showing Mike Gatting.

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In reply to jezb1:

> Next level isn’t it! I thought that catch was a given and that he’d throw it to the other fielder if needed!

I think it harsh to criticise Trent Boult for that missed catch. He knew the boundary was there and slightly over compensated for it which meant that his leap over-balanced him backwards. Perfectly understandable though when lining up a skier like that.

England got some lucky breaks throughout the match.

- Guptil misusing his review meaning that Taylor couldn't use it when he was not really out LBW.
- Boult's missed-catch.
- The bat to the boundary fluke six runs.
- The curious change in the rules that meant boundaries counted for more than wickets lost, which no-one appeared to know about until it mattered.

Alan

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jezb1 15 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

No criticism from me, I was only highlighting that we almost expect every chance to be taken these days what with the moments of excellence we see.

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In reply to jezb1:

> No criticism from me, I was only highlighting that we almost expect every chance to be taken these days what with the moments of excellence we see.

True.

It is now emerging that the fluke 6 runs should probably have only been five runs and Stokes should have been off the strike after that.

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the sheep 15 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Indeed, seemingly the runs that counted were those scored before the fielder threw the ball in, at which point they hadn't crossed. 

However how on earth the umpires could monitor all of that and be aware of the rules and their exact interpretation on them in such a flukey scenario is asking a bit much. All of the players on field accepted it as the correct call, as did those commentating. 

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laurie 15 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

for me new Zealand where robed of victory.  The  fluke  boundary should not of been allowed, Bolts L.B.W was plum,  and England where bowl out,  New Zealand should of won at this point on wickets

New Zealand brilliantly defended a low total!

Post edited at 13:03
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the sheep 15 Jul 2019
In reply to laurie:

> for me new Zealand where robed of victory.  The  fluke  boundary should not of been allowed, Bolts L.B.W was plum,  and England where bowl out,  New Zealand should of won at this point on wickets

Why not, if it were just plain overthrows it would still have been a valid boundary. The error nay have been made in the number of runs allowed and who took strike. The boundary would still stand whatever. 

It doesnt matter that England were all out, the scores were level and that what the rules prior to the game stated. The NZ batsmen who played in the super over were also out. 

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GrahamD 15 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Its fair to say England got a few breaks there, but i don't think boundary countback in the unlikely event of a tied game followed by a tird superover is one of them.  The commentary team was aware of it and the umpires had a long chat to the captains before and during the super over.

Having said that wickets taken on countback would have been the most logical, but maybe then we miss the drama of the last three England batsmen going for that suicidal second run.

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The New NickB 15 Jul 2019
In reply to laurie:

> for me new Zealand where robed of victory.  The  fluke  boundary should not of been allowed, Bolts L.B.W was plum,  and England where bowl out,  New Zealand should of won at this point on wickets

You can’t make up the rules as you go along.  England won based on the rules that both teams played by.

> New Zealand brilliantly defended a low total!

Yes and it made for a wonderful match. There is no doubt that England had some luck on their side, but they won by the rules and both teams played absolutely within the spirit of the game.

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In reply to GrahamD:

> Its fair to say England got a few breaks there, but i don't think boundary countback in the unlikely event of a tied game followed by a tird superover is one of them.  The commentary team was aware of it and the umpires had a long chat to the captains before and during the super over.

> Having said that wickets taken on countback would have been the most logical, but maybe then we miss the drama of the last three England batsmen going for that suicidal second run.

Yes, I think the result is fine under the circumstances. If they had been given 5 runs, then Rashid stolen a single, then Stokes could well have slammed the last ball for six or four (it was a full toss at knee level after all). No-one can be sure of what might have happened and no-one was robbed.

Alan

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stu7jokes 15 Jul 2019
In reply to laurie:

> The  fluke  boundary should not of been allowed

In which case neither should the four leg byes awarded to NZ when de Grandhomme took evasive action against a Wood bouncer without playing a shot. A strikingly similar situation.

Here's a great forensic discussion on the balance of luck from a neutral perspective: https://soundcloud.com/user-471403842/dear-cricket-we-hate-you-but-we-love-you-talking-world-cup 

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laurie 15 Jul 2019
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Good points all round. I don't agree with many of the new one day  rules and how its played. I  much prefer test cricket

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stu7jokes 15 Jul 2019
In reply to laurie:

The Stokes incident would have counted as a boundary in a test match, too. Although the strange rules in the event of a tie wouldn't have applied, clearly.

Post edited at 14:01
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Lemony 15 Jul 2019
In reply to GrahamD:

> Having said that wickets taken on countback would have been the most logical, but maybe then we miss the drama of the last three England batsmen going for that suicidal second run.

Lots of this on twitter over the past 24 hours and I fundamentally disagree with it and feel like it changes the whole ethos of ODI scoring. The goal in ODIs is to use your two resources, overs and wickets, to maximise your runs. If you've left wickets on the park then it's likely you could have actually scored more runs than you did if you went harder at the ball.

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In reply to the sheep:

I'm not sure on this rule. When the ball hit the boundary Stokes had completed 2 runs. What is "the act"? is it the fielder throwing the ball, or is it the ball ricocheting off Stokes bat?

"the runs completed by the batsmen, together with the run in progress if they had already crossed at the instant of the throw or act."

So if it had hit Stokes before they'd crossed then it would have only been 1 run, plus the 4, but it hit him after they'd crossed, therefore it's 2 runs plus the 4 overthrow, so it's 6 
 

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In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

> I'm not sure on this rule. When the ball hit the boundary Stokes had completed 2 runs. What is "the act"? is it the fielder throwing the ball, or is it the ball ricocheting off Stokes bat?

> "the runs completed by the batsmen, together with the run in progress if they had already crossed at the instant of the throw or act."

> So if it had hit Stokes before they'd crossed then it would have only been 1 run, plus the 4, but it hit him after they'd crossed, therefore it's 2 runs plus the 4 overthrow, so it's 6 

That's interesting. I missed the bit about 'act'.

I think the point about all this is that the players deal with the situation on the ball they face. If that means swinging for a six because you need a boundary, or nudging for two because you need two, then they will play differently.

Had Archer's first ball of the super over not been given as a wide (since it wasn't) then that would have left NZ needing 3 off the final ball, not 2, which might have meant a slog from Guptil instead of a nudge for two, which might have won it for NZ, or clearly lost it had he missed.

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the sheep 15 Jul 2019
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

There is a certain ambiguity there which leaves the point open to debate.

As you rightly say if its the throw then they should have only got 5 and Stokes of strike.

If its the act of the ball deflecting off the bat then its 6 and he is on strike.

To be honest 2 very fine umpires were on field and made the judgement call and the result stands 

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Offwidth 15 Jul 2019
In reply to all:

Apologies but sometimes a brexit link is just too good to overlook.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cricket/jacob-rees-mogg-england-cricket-world-cup-final-brexit-europeans-tweet-a9004836.html

It was an amazing historic match and would have been even if NZ had made that last gasp second run. I think the only more unlikely thing would have been a deflection from Stokes onto a fielders helmet on the ground. A 7?

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