Citroen C3 Picasso - petrol or diesel??

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 Blue Straggler 08 Jul 2020

Hello
I am contemplating getting a second hand Citroen C3 Picasso, probably a 2009-2011 era one at £2500-£3000. 

Various review sites seem to disagree on which is the better engine to get. 
I understand the 1.6 diesel can feel sluggish on getting up to speed and a bit noisy. 
The difference in mpg between the petrol and the diesel is not a decision-maker for me.
The massively reduced VED on the diesel, could be.

Just wondering if there are other considerations. I see that some versions of the diesel do not have the dreaded DMF. 

Also can any owners of a model in the relevant trim, describe how the front passenger seat folds? Guessing it's a fold forward rather than a fold flat? Just wondering if it's possible to very occasionally sleep one person (5'10") in one of these! 

 Neil Williams 08 Jul 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

Do you mean DPF?  They're not dreaded as long as you give it a blast along the motorway periodically to clear it out.

Do you intend on driving to Bristol city centre any time soon?  If so, this may decide for you as they are proposing a daytime ban on all diesel cars (even very modern low-emission ones with DPF and AdBlue).  For London you'd have to pay the ULEZ charge but at about 15 quid that's not a killer unless you're going every day.

The other thing going for petrol is that there's no turbo on a car that age (probably) so one less thing to go wrong.

To counter that I personally prefer how diesels drive, it suits my driving style better, only you will know if that applies to you or not!

Post edited at 11:40
In reply to Neil Williams:

Cheers Neil. I meant DMF (dual mass flywheel)
Thanks for flagging up the "city centre" thing, I was aware of it, and can work around it. I don't plan to drive into Bristol city centre often enough for it to be a deal breaker. Ditto London. 

I am not going to be gobbling up motorway miles so it could be argued that I am not a diesel customer at all, but as the diesel is better on emissions (and up to £130 cheaper per year on VED) it is attractive - at the same time, I am not a driver who should "never" get a diesel - I am not doing short hops around town, every drive is at least a decent 15 mile run which should be JUST enough not to kill the engine!

 Neil Williams 08 Jul 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

Ah yes, forgot about dual mass flywheels.  That was the reason I didn't buy a diesel Mondeo about 10 years ago!

I don't think they're always an issue, though.

In reply to Neil Williams:

Got my fingers burned after buying an old MG ZTT with the dual mass flywheel as part of a whole clutch system that seemed to made of margarine but as you say, they needn’t necessarily be dreaded (and I knew what I was potentially in for for the ZTT, was just bad luck that it actually happened. Had a good enough innings with that car though) 

 dread-i 08 Jul 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

We had a C3, though I cant remember what year it was.

When you're at the show room, try and change the front headlight bulb. I seem to remember one or both, being a right pain. The trim, acceleration etc are minor considerations. Its a small car made to take the kids to school and to nip to the shops. Don't expect too much in the way of F1 type performance.

We had some mechanical issues with ours, possibly due to a botched crash repair, before we bought it. I seem to remember that the electronics are keyed to the ignition. So some spares you cant get from a breakers yard, as you need them re-keyed, by the main dealer, or some guy in a back alley.

As for driving, it doesn't stand out as being either really great or super dull.

 Neil Williams 08 Jul 2020
In reply to dread-i:

Changing a headlight bulb in most cars these days is a knuckle-stripping disaster.  It's one of those things that it's probably worth paying the lad in Halfords a tenner to strip his knuckles instead.

Post edited at 14:44
In reply to dread-i:

Thanks, but do you mean the C3 (the little hatchback) or the C3 Picasso? They appear to be very different cars! Or is the Picasso a C3 chassis with a bigger boxy bodyshell stuck on?

I haven't attempted to change a front headlight bulb for years, I get my mechanic to do it during service or MOT (if it is just a sidelight). Luckily I've only had a headlight bulb pop once, and I got the mechanic to change that (didn't trust Halfords lads). My current car strictly needs the bumper removing for bulb replacement, with the "short cut" being to take a wheel off so you can get in from behind! 

Even on a previous car with more straightforward access, when I've replaced them they seemed to not sit straight so I just leave it to people who do hundreds of these!

Post edited at 15:17
 dread-i 08 Jul 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

> Thanks, but do you mean the C3 (the little hatchback) or the C3 Picasso? They appear to be very different cars! Or is the Picasso a C3 chassis with a bigger boxy bodyshell stuck on?

C3 hatchback. I've also had an old style C4 Picasso, as well. The C4 diesel was very frugal ~50+ mpg. The team that designed the engine and did a great job, didn't design the body or interior. So it was a bit, err, quirky.

> I haven't attempted to change a front headlight bulb for years, I get my mechanic to do it during service or MOT (if it is just a sidelight). Luckily I've only had a headlight bulb pop once, and I got the mechanic to change that (didn't trust Halfords lads). My current car strictly needs the bumper removing for bulb replacement, with the "short cut" being to take a wheel off so you can get in from behind! 

And yet, in many countries you're legally obliged to carry spare bulbs. Go figure

Its one of those things I look at when buying a car (not that I buy lots of cars.) If they are that badly designed that they are not really user serviceable, then other parts are not usually serviceable. It may be that you have never needed to service something, but when you take it to the garage, they have to fight with it and it costs more in time.

As much as I have appreciated the friendly answers, is anyone able to actually answer the question(s) in the OP?  

 Mlewis 09 Jul 2020

I have been looking at the C3 Picasso and Berlingo multispace for a while. Still undecided of what to go for, C3 seems to be similar to the Berlingo for 30% less. 

I've always been at diesel man and had lots of cars with the 1.6hdi. Good engine but as with all modern diesels they are fairly complex and can be costly to repair. Petrols are obviously worse on fuel but don't have any expensive (Turbo, high pressure fuel systems, DMF, DPF) systems to replace. 

I think I'll just wait until a good price/condition car comes up local to me and go for that, regardless of engine. 

In reply to Mlewis:

Cheers, sounds like a good approach. 
I think the C3 Picasso is a fair bit smaller than the Berlingo isn't it (this is only based on experience of a friend's Berlingo usually with seats removed, and zero experience inside a C3 Picasso)

 

 Neil Williams 09 Jul 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

I think the thing that makes Berlingos (and Partners/Rifters), Ford Tourneo Connects etc a bit pricey for what they are is that the high roof means they're easy to convert for wheelchair use.  Though yes the C3 Picasso is a bit smaller than a Berlingo.

Post edited at 11:03
In reply to Neil Williams:

At least two of the C3 Picassos I've seen for sale describe them as having once been Motability vehicles. I suppose Motability doesn't necessarily mean wheelchair OR conversion but it did still seem a slightly odd choice, then again they are praised for very good visibility which might lend itself to that application (the visibility is a selling point for me - having rented numerous cars in the past 5 years, a pet hate of mine is poor visibility - I am spoiled at the moment as, perhaps surprisingly, my Nissan 350Z has by far the best all round visibility of any car I've owned, and pretty much as good as the best of any "normal" car I've driven! Obviously can't compete with a well designed SUV or anything else with a higher driver viewpoint, but at the same time I've had some absolute stinkers in that realm - hello Ford Eco-Sport...

 Neil Williams 09 Jul 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

Things like the C3 Picasso are smallish, cheapish cars that have a relatively high seating position - that's probably the sales pitch for Motability.  The decent sized boot might allow for e.g. a child sized wheelchair to be stored.

In reply to Mlewis:

On the C3 Picasso, by the way, diesels are cheaper on VED. (£20-30 a year instead of £130-£150).
Arguably not a deal-breaker if you look at perhaps 3 years ownership. 

 Snyggapa 09 Jul 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

Having owned both a diesel and petrol C3 picasso (64 plate 1.6 diesel and 16 plate 1.2 petrol) , neither are going to set the world alight with performance. The newer 1.2 turbo petrol was a bit more fun to drive - the prior 1.4 petrols I believe were woefully underpowered, under-efficient and generally nasty.

The 1.6 diesel was was "adequate" - had plenty of grunt but not designed for racing about. 

My recollection is the front passenger seat folded over flat forwards but that is hazy - and varied between trim levels as our later one didn't fold flat at all, it folded back about 60 degrees which was tantalisingly close but not quite useful. With the front forwards I can't recall if all of the seats were level, they may have been.

overall it was an unexciting car that was surprisingly big inside - and we liked it enough that when someone backed out of a drive into the side of and wrote off the first one we got another. The only problem I ever had loading stuff (a chest or drawers) into is is the boot entrance is quite narrow due to some "styling details" and I needed that extra inch - the drawers went in the back of a nissan micra no problem.

Just got rid of the 16 plate petrol one for £5500 at a week under 4 years old. Someone got a bargain but I needed 1 less car 

Older ones I would chose Diesel, newer ones with the 1.2 engine petrol - both I think were £30/year VED.

Hope that helps

-edit- also available in funky colours so you can spot it a mile off in a car park. berry purple was a favourite

Post edited at 12:39
In reply to Snyggapa:

Thanks, that is really useful. Yes, I had gleaned (by blurry website osmosis) that the petrols before the facelift and the 1.2, are awful - and I have had once experienced that genuine fear of whether a woefully underpowered will get me across a T junction to turn right (modern rental Vauxhall Crossland). 
I am looking at cheaper older ones so will stick to diesel despite concerns about more expensive service/repair. 
I think only the "Exclusive" (and possibly "Platinum") trim at least on the older models, had that folding seat. I have a couple of contenders lined up for viewing. 
As you may have noticed above, my current car is a Nissan 350Z so ANY sort of better easier storage is going to be massive leap for me. Every time I hire a car - any car - I think "WOW" when I see how much space there is! Even a Hyundai Elantra and Nissan Versa on a Canada/US road trip last year (the 350Z has decent space due to no rear seats, but with the massive strut and of course the shape of it, it's awkward and you can't even get a totally dismantled bike in, although I recently managed a single futon base)

 Snyggapa 09 Jul 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

I would actively seek out a higher mileage diesel rather than a motability one possibly used to pootle around town - cheaper but probably in better overall health. 

 Snyggapa 09 Jul 2020
In reply to dread-i:

>When you're at the show room, try and change the front headlight bulb.

Once you get the knack of it it is one of the easier bulbs to change in any car I have ever owned. You will need a pair of gloves though as removing the bulb from the holder involves forcing apart a razor sharp bulb holder from a razor sharp bulb. 

In reply to Snyggapa:

Yes, I thought the same when I saw at least two ads mentioning it. I wouldn’t mention it if it were my car I were selling! 

mick taylor 09 Jul 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

I have the 2012 version. Front seat folds forward. It’s been a very frustrating car. When one form it runs like a dream, feels powerful and secure in motorway. But I did have lots of problems with injectors etc and associated problems. Cost a minor fortune. TBH, I did have three odd spell of doing lots of short journeys, but it almost always got a good weekly blast on the motorway. Headlight bulbs very easy to change. I know this coz I had a dodgey fusebox (water ingress) and got used to changing them - 30 seconds of a job. 

In reply to mick taylor:

Thanks. I realise any car is a "risk purchase", God knows I've had enough lemons. Yours sounds a bit bad luck compared to a lot of "user reviews" I've seen. Maybe I'll get bad luck - who knows?! Water ingress to fuse box, that rings a bell. I'll look out for that. 

 bearman68 10 Jul 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

I happen to know more than most about these, being an auto electrician, and a bit of a diesel specialist. IMO the best option is a 90 bhp 2010 onwards. These are typically about 2k + depending on mileage.

The 90 bhp does not have a Dual mass flywheel.

The 90 bhp does not have a variable vane turbo, so far less likely to clog up.

The injectors generally have been well sorted on the post 2009 models. Have a look at the engine without the plastic engine cover. If you can see the injectors, don't buy it, as it's the earlier piece of rubbish, and should be avoided. 

There are concerns - fuse box fo example, but this is cheap and easy to replace, and the DPF will struggle with short journeys, as with any modern diesel, but generally, they are robust, reliable little things, without any undue negatives. (Except for image).

Avoid the 1.6 16v VVTi petrol like the plague, as these are a bit of a mare too. 

 angry pirate 10 Jul 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

We have a 10 plate C3 Picasso diesel that we've owned for about five years putting about 60,000 miles on it (it's done just over 100k) and I really rate it. Now I'm not hugely a petrol head so I didn't buy it to be particularly nippy (though it'll get to 70 plenty fast enough) but it's got loads of internal space and millennium falcon style smugglers compartments for extra storage. 

It's been a commuter motor (25 miles each way with a good 60 mph section) and a family car for camping holidays here and abroad as well as UK climbing trips.

It is economical to run and the £30 road tax (yeah, I know it's not really road tax) helps.

It has been really reliable overall and my fairly manly (size 9) hands can change the headlight bulbs in palacial luxury (in sharp contrast to my old Citroen which was designed for babies)

The one big ball ache / expenditure was when the power assist motor went a couple of years ago which was partially covered under warranty but still cost a few hundred to fix.

I'd buy another tbh.

Post edited at 20:42
In reply to bearman68:

Thanks so much. Sorry, I only just noticed this. Brilliant to hear that the 90bhp don’t have the DMF as I am almost certainly getting 90bhp (most of the Exclusive edition ones with the folding front passenger seat, are 90bhp) 

In reply to angry pirate:

Thanks, that is all reassuring. Funnily enough I had lined one up to see, at a dealer, on Friday. They rang in the morning to postpone a because a power steering warning light had popped up and they are ordering in a replacement! Which is kind of a good thing as I’ll know it’s literally just been replaced 

In reply to bearman68:

Can you see if they are there on this? Sorry for shoddy quality, this is just off a dealer's website!). Or is this showing the cover still on? I am a bit a noob re: actually looking at engines! This on a 60 plate and if I had to buy this week (which I don't) I'd probably get this one (still haven't looked at any properly, nor driven one, but we are really narrowing it down to 1.6 diesel 90bhp, Exclusive trim, not pre-2010, and then it's just a case of do I like the colour, price, mileage/assumed condition, and relative convenience of purchase)

Post edited at 11:02


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