Car dealership warranties

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 girlymonkey 30 Mar 2021

We have never bought a nice vehicle before and are about to venture into the brave new world of electric vehicles. We are buying used, but looking at ones from dealerships.

They talk about offering a warranty, but we have no idea what what a good or bad deal on a warranty looks like!

What do you look for in a one? Anything that would be a deal breaker for you? 

 Alpenglow 30 Mar 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

Look carefully at what they cover, generally have a long list of exclusions in the small print so unlikely to be worth it. They probably won't cover wear and tear.

I bought an approved used Honda from a main dealership with a 1 year warranty that had a few minor issues (broken headlamp seal and squeaking clutch), they refused to cover them and stated the warranty was for major issues only i.e. engine failure.

Legally the dealer is liable for any fault that could have been present or developing on date of sale for 6 months from date of sale anyway.

Post edited at 12:31
 dread-i 30 Mar 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

The warranty is from a third party. The dealer is now obliged to provide a warranty, and this is the cheapest and easiest way of doing so. It is, basically, an insurance policy against mechanical failure. So all the rules about insurance companies apply. E.g., they will try not to pay out, if they can.

First thing I'd check is that it is specific to electric vehicles. No point in having cam belt cover, for example, if you don't have a cam belt. Some of the policies allow you to upgrade, so you can add on extra bits later at your expense. You can also buy your own warranty policy. The chances are that the dealers one will be the cheapest one available, there may be better policies out there.

 Ian W 30 Mar 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

If they are advertising a warranty as part of the deal, then its better than nothing, although as Alpenglow said, they are liable for some things anyway. If its being offered as an extra cost option, i would suggest checking out mechanical warranty insurance policies from an independent  insurance company and comparing the benefits. Dealer warranties can be very much like travel insurance bundled in as part of a package (ie bloody expensive!).

 Sealwife 30 Mar 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

This dealer https://www.usedelectricvehicles.co.uk/ specialises in used electric vehicles.  It’s run by a chap called Johnathan Porterfield.  He is hugely knowledgable and enthusiastic about electric vehicles.

How he operates is, he will have a chat with you to work out what type of vehicle would be best for your needs, you set a budget and he will get you a car.

Not sure what he does about warranties - the only problem I had with mine is that one of the charging cables was faulty, which he replaced for me.  I didn’t even ask him to, he spotted me on a EV forum asking about cables, so messaged to find out what the problem was.

Someone else on here has also bought a car from him but I cannot remember who it was.

 Neil Williams 30 Mar 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

Electric cars are quite simple beasts compared with ICE ones.  The main thing I'd be concentrating on in a warranty is the battery, which is the expensive bit.  If it doesn't cover that for anything that might go wrong with it it's pretty worthless.

 Ridge 30 Mar 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

I think any dealer or third party warranty isn't really worth the paper it's written on. They tend to exclude wear and tear, which means from the moment you turn the ignition key the engine has suffered wear..

If it's nearly new it should be covered by the manufacturers warranty, but you must ensure thus is transferred.

Again this depends on the manufacturer.

Mitsubishi replaced the injection system in Mrs Ridges car under warranty over a year after she bought it second hand from one if their dealers.

My last Kia (bought second hand from a Kia dealer) failed its MOT just before the 7 year warranty expired with 90,000 miles on the clock. I was gobsmacked when they relaced the worn suspension components underwarranty.

However I've heard that some of the larger companies aren't as helpful when it comes to warranties.

OP girlymonkey 30 Mar 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

Ok, thanks everyone. Sounds like we just ignore the warranty! That's one less thing to think about!

We are getting a van, most likely an ENV200. You think once you have decided what you are getting that the hard part is done...but oh my it's a whole other world if things to think about! Lol. At least knowing that the warranty is essentially useless means we can just move on from that point and try to get our heads around what charging point we want, what cables, which public charge point providers to sigh up with, and who knows what else we don't even know we need to work out yet?! Lol.

A brave new world indeed. I'm sure it will be worth it in the long run

 Sam W 30 Mar 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

I think the garage you buy from is as important as having a bit of paper that says warranty.  We bought our current Octavia for £1800 from a local independent Skoda dealer.  As the price suggests it was far from brand new.  We were told it had a 12 month warranty that basically covered everything except obvious wearing parts like tyres, but had no paperwork to support this.

After 5 months the gearbox disintegrated, big bang, oil everywhere.  The garage picked the car up (fortunately we were near home).  Did a full replacement of the gearbox, free courtesy car, not even the tiniest hint of a quibble.  No idea what the cost was, but I'm sure it ruined any profit they made on the original sale.  The service they gave ensures I'll go back to them next time we need a new car, and probably for several vehicles after that.

 Jim Lancs 30 Mar 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

But warranties aren't useless!  They're no different to any other type of insurance, they cover what they say they'll cover in the detail and not what you hoped they're cover in your imagination.  Here people seem to be complaining that they bought 3rd party only and are now upset it doesn't cover fire or theft. 

You can spend your money covering whatever you like, but most people recognise insurance is only really worth considering if it's against catastrophic losses. With a traditional motor vehicle that has generally been limited to what is known as the 'oil lubricated components' - engine, gearbox, back axle, etc, as it's a failure of these that represent the most financial impact. So that's what 'most' insurance policies (warranties) focus on.  But what the 'catastrophic problems' might be with the electric van you're considering, I don't know - but if there are any and their occurrence would financially 'hurt' you, you might want to mitigate the risk by having someone insure it if possible. 

 Ben Callard 30 Mar 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

I've recently got my first EV. I had a podpoint 7kw charger installed. They did a really good job and I'd recommend them.

I'm 1000 miles into EV ownership and I can't ever see myself getting an ICE car again. It's great. 

Post edited at 14:49
 Qwerty2019 30 Mar 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

I wont be quite so harsh on warranties as some on here.  I come from a main dealer background in commercials.  A warranty is a warranty.  It covers mechanical and manufacturing defects.  It has never and does not cover wear and tear or damage.  I have seen clutches go at 2 months and legitimately be refused under warranty and i have seen them go at 60,000mls and be covered.  As with anything insurance based (Gap Ins anyone), if you have had a payout and it worked for you its the best thing since sliced bread.

Manufacturers warranties are similar to aftermarket warranties from the bigger companies.  There will be exclusions like audio equipment and different levels of cover etc.  You pays your money and you takes your (Informed) chances.

Now the reason i actually replied to the post.  EVehicles.  OMG would i be worried about buying anything EV properly used.  The battery is basically 50% of the vehicle.  i cant think of many vehicles where one item carries so much value.  We recently put some contract figures through for a £60k+ Mercedes Tourer.  5yrs, 30,000mls pa.  We were shocked at £1000 per month.  Thats the full £60k back over the contract.  Then we looked at the RV value of the vehicle at 5yrs.  £3500.  They are so scared of needing new batteries after 5yrs they basically wrote it down to scrap value.  We looked at the contract over 3yrs and the RV figures were much more sensible.  I am not sure how long the manufacturers warranties are for but my guess is the vehicles warranty, ie 3,4 or 5yrs will also cover the battery.  That doesnt leave a lot of leeway for a used purchase to look good value.  Remember you may also want to sell it on so that would be even worse.

If it was me i would ensure the warranty was quite clear on what it covered on the battery & motor side of things.  I expect when things ramp up in second hand sales specific EV warranties will become available but i havent seen any yet (I havent been looking).

Oh and i am 3weeks into EV ownership.  Its actually a diesel/electric hybrid.  I took advantage of the government grant for charging point and got a SyncEV point installed at home for £500.  It is capable of 7kw charge but my car only seems to be accepting 4kw.  Its about the size of a pair of bouldering shoes Thats important when you are doing your times for charging.  You may have a unit capable of more but the car will only charge at its own rates.  Anyhow its ony a 30mls range on my car but surprisingly i dont do much more than a 18mls round trip to work each day.  When i need long distance the diesel kicks in.  On 750mls so far, 450 have been electric and i havent even used half tank of diesel.  Really pleased with it.  But then i will be able to walk away from any issues with the battery the day it turns 3yrs old and get into a fresh new one.  

Post edited at 14:45
OP girlymonkey 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Qwerty2019:

It is second hand we are buying. 

The batteries lose about 1% of their capacity per year on average. Having done lots of reading and research, the lifespan of the battery doesn't worry us at all. Anyone we know who has an EV absolutely raves about it. 

Due to some commuting circumstance changes, we are going to save by switching and I'm quite excited about it.

The warranty on offer is the dealers standard warranty, and they are not EV specialists. We haven't seen the details yet, but it is a 3 month one. I suspect we could negotiate a longer one if we wanted it , which was why I asked here about experiences with them, but it sounds like it's probably not going to be worth doing. As with any used vehicle, it's likely to be a case of crossing our fingers that it does us well! Our current van probably swallows at least £500 per year in repairs. 

 Qwerty2019 30 Mar 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

Its not so much the general opinion of how good/bad a battery is.  I absolutely take your word for it that is the case although it isnt battery performance i was getting at really, more battery malfunction.  What i am getting at is out of the 1000's that are sold IF you get the one that packs up at 3.5yrs old, is out of warranty and needs replaced you could well be looking at writing the vehicle off.  Thats something i would want to insure didnt happen.

OP girlymonkey 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Qwerty2019:

I can't imagine a warranty covering that, not on a second hand vehicle. It's worth reading and finding out, but I guess that falls under my fingers crossed thinking! A bit like hoping my ICE van doesn't just randomly catch fire. I think we just have to go on the balance of probability being that it is unlikely, but there are no certainties in the world of vehicle ownership other than it will always cost you more money than you think! 

1
 Ben Callard 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Qwerty2019:

I have a Kia, and the battery has it's own manufacturer warranty of 7 years or 100,000 miles. A quick google suggests Nissans is similar.  

 Qwerty2019 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Ben Callard:

Against manufacturing defect.........i imagine when presented with a battery malfunction at 5yrs and 80,000mls costing £15,000- £20,000 they are going to roll over and fit a new one.  My guess is it will be interesting. 

Look i 100% buy into EV and think it is the future.  But i wouldnt purchase one now, i would lease one and let everyone else take the risks.  Its huge this year from a manufacturers perspective so i expect next 2 year to have a massive uplift in used availability and things like warranties will catch up.    

 James Malloch 30 Mar 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

I’ve not read the thread but we got a warranty with our used car. Talked into it at the time without reading much about it.

We we’re lucky in that I had some repairs covered by it which would have cost more than the policy.

But I hadn’t realised at the time that I had to pay to submit a “claim”. So the dealer would find an issue, and they couldn’t say if it would be covered until I’d paid (approx £100) and they received a response.

They didn’t tell me this when I signed up (and didn’t give me the paperwork as their system didn’t work at weekends) so they waived the first excess charge.

All repairs after that first time were more minor and it wouldn’t have been economical to pay to find out if it was covered, so I never used it again and just went to a local garage for repairs.

i did get a lot of work done on the dealers warranty though which covered issues when I first got the car. Things like the back windscreen having a damaged heating wire and a few other things which cropped up in the first week or two.

 Ben Callard 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Qwerty2019:

I'm kinda with you on this. Mine is a company car, so I don't really worry about mistreating the battery (although I can't see that I'd have a reason to).

 S Ramsay 30 Mar 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

Personally, I would be very wary of buying a second had ENV 200 for leisure purposes. The earlier Nissan leafs suffered horrendous battery degradation, and while there I couldn't see information for the ENV 200 I would assume that it has similar technology to the leaf. See the two plots below:

https://pushevs.com/2018/03/20/nissan-leaf-battery-degradation-data-24-vs-3...

https://insideevs.com/news/326563/battery-capacity-loss-warranty-chart-for-...

The newer Nissan batteries may be better but if you're buying second hand then you're probably not buying one of the newest batteries.

The second point is that to not hammer the battery you ideally want to be keeping it's charge levels at least between 90% and 20%.

The ENV 200 40 kWh model is rated for 124 miles WLTP. Hypothetically, your new (second hand) ENV 200 could turn up with 80% of its original battery life and you then try and keep it between 90% and 20%, so 70% of remaining charge.

124 x 0.8 x 0.7 = 69.4 miles

I took the liberty of looking at your profile and that won't get you to the main areas of the Highlands or the Cairngorms.* While the situation may be better than what I've described I think that you need to be prepared to be getting as little as 70 odd miles out of it between charges.

*I've assumed that this is for climbing and not for work or other purposes

I'm not even against EVs, I picture myself buying one in the next few years (lack of off street parking being a major barrier at the moment), but I think that something along the lines of a hatchback plus a tent will work out as a much more practical climbing vehicle than a cheap van.

If you do buy it, post up with how it goes, I'd be pleased to be proved wrong, I do like the idea of an electric van

 Qwerty2019 30 Mar 2021
In reply to S Ramsay:

What a fantastic informed post. Lets put it this way, i am just learning about this stuff through Mercedes and a lot of the stuff you have mentioned there fits in with what i am being told from this end.  I dont confess to know that much about it but we are trying at the moment to sell Evehicles so we need to know how they stack up against the competition and at the moment, admittedly for company directors and business's it is quite hard to justify against the current diesel offerings.

 Hooo 30 Mar 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

> The batteries lose about 1% of their capacity per year on average. Having done lots of reading and research, the lifespan of the battery doesn't worry us at all. Anyone we know who has an EV absolutely raves about it. 

I'm afraid to say that is massively overoptimistic. Battery life and condition is something you need to look into carefully. I've owned a Leaf 30 for about 9 months now. It's a great car and I have no plans to go back to an ICE, but I'm going to be changing it soon for something with a better battery life. It's done about 40k over 4 years and the battery is down to about 85% capacity. I think I was a bit naive and didn't look into the battery condition when I was looking at cars. Don't make the same mistake!

As far as warranty goes, I bought privately so didn't get one. Saved £1500 off dealer prices and took the punt. The battery is still covered by Nissan's original warranty though, as long as I pay for a rip-off service every year.

OP girlymonkey 30 Mar 2021
In reply to S Ramsay:

Of course I can get to Aviemore with it. I just need to plan in a charge stop. 

We have to stop churning diesel fumes into the atmosphere. We needed a second vehicle anyway. So our options were to keep running our manky diesel which sucks the life out of our bank account and buy an EV car for the second vehicle, or buy a wee petrol car and get the EV van. If we kept the van, the expensive and eco friendly car would sit in the drive most of the time. Vans suit what we need to do most of the time. When I don't need a van, I usually cycle. Much better to make some adjustments to journey times and make our main vehicle electric.

I already factor in extra time for all sorts of journeys where I choose to cycle, so this is no different. We need to take some lifestyle hits to reduce our impact.

1
OP girlymonkey 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Hooo:

The one we are looking at has only done 11k miles, so hopefully that means the battery hasn't been hammered. Regular rapid charging seems to be the thing which does them in, as far as I can tell. We should be able to charge overnight most of the time. It's a gamble, and we do suspect we will trade it in for something with longer range sometime down the line, but we will make the necessary adjustments to journeys to make this work for now as we believe it is the right thing to do. 

Good tip about manufacturers warranty on the battery, will see if that's still valid on the one we are looking at

 jimtitt 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Hooo:

> I'm afraid to say that is massively overoptimistic. Battery life and condition is something you need to look into carefully. I've owned a Leaf 30 for about 9 months now. It's a great car and I have no plans to go back to an ICE, but I'm going to be changing it soon for something with a better battery life. It's done about 40k over 4 years and the battery is down to about 85% capacity. I think I was a bit naive and didn't look into the battery condition when I was looking at cars. Don't make the same mistake!

> As far as warranty goes, I bought privately so didn't get one. Saved £1500 off dealer prices and took the punt. The battery is still covered by Nissan's original warranty though, as long as I pay for a rip-off service every year.


Indeed, you can look at fleet reviews and see 4.3%/yr for the Leaf and a bit over 2% for Tesla. The cooling is critical amongst other things.

 Hooo 30 Mar 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

I assume it's pretty new then? I'm assuming it's similar to the Leaf, as I think it's basically a Leaf underneath. If that's the case as long as it's been dealer serviced it should have the warranty. But bear in mind that the battery has to get pretty bad to qualify for a warranty replacement. The battery warranty will effectively protect you against failure, but not against it getting poor capacity.

There's an Android app for the Leaf that allows you to check detailed battery diagnostics. It would be worth looking to see if there's one for the NV200. The Nissan battery report is a waste of time.

On the subject of apps, you will soon be entering app hell  Most public chargers seem to require an app to use them, and they are almost all utterly appalling and sometimes don't work at all. It sounds like you're committed to EVs so you'll live with it, but public charging needs a massive improvement in useability if EVs are going to go mainstream. This is the main reason why range is so important in an EV, while in theory you can stop and put a quick charge in, in practice it's rarely that simple.

 Jamie Wakeham 30 Mar 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

On range: for high speeds, work done against drag force varies (very approximately) with speed squared, so you'll find that your range is very sensitive to your speed.  Dropping from 70mph to 60mph will add a really noticeable amount to your range, and dropping to 50mph will get even more.

OP girlymonkey 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Hooo:

https://www.speakev.com/threads/e-nv200-battery-degradation.155192/

Albeit, a small sample size, but this gives me hope.

It's a 2015 van, so new by my standards! Lol. I suspect it's just been used for very local journeys. 

Yes, I hope the charger app situation improves, it does sound like a pita at the moment! Currently, most of our day to day journeys will be feasible without needing to charge on the move. That might change as the year goes on so we may end up deeper into the world of crap apps then, but I suspect (hope!) it's something which will improve and streamline with more users.

OP girlymonkey 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

Yes, I suspect cruise control will become our friend! Everyone who uses one has said that it has made them change how they think about their driving style. 

 Hooo 30 Mar 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

11k miles in 6 years! I've probably cycled that far

I would definitely look into an independent battery assessment of some kind. From what I've seen of that era some people have had batteries last forever and some have had terrible ones. It appears to be random and unrelated to how they look after them.
 

OP girlymonkey 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Hooo:

I have probably cycled that far this year! Lol. Even more bonkers though, the wee petrol car we have picked up to be our second vehicle is from 2005 and has done 38k!! It's a wee Micra, so wee old lady pottering to the shops is most likely there.

How would you go about getting battery assesment done? Would we ask the dealer to do it? I assume they won't let us take to to someone to get it done if we don't own it yet!

 Hooo 30 Mar 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

If it was a Leaf I'd say to download the Leaf Spy app and get an ODBII reader from ebay and you can do it yourself in a couple of minutes.  I don't know if Leaf Spy would work on an NV200 though. Your best bet is probably to post on Speak EV and see if anyone there knows. 

 Sealwife 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Hooo:

The majority of public charging in Scotland is with Charge Point Scotland.  You don’t need an app, although you can use one if you like.

I have a card.  Bit of plastic, looks like a credit card, lives in my car.  I wave it at the charger and it lets me use it and bills me accordingly- not that I use it often as I tend to charge at home.

Have had my car’s battery health checked by the local green transport group last year. It was still at 92% which is not bad for a car of 6 years old and about 55k miles.  I was advised to try to mix up my charging a bit more and use fast and rapid chargers occasionally because batteries fair best with a “mixed diet” of charging.  

OP girlymonkey 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Sealwife:

> I was advised to try to mix up my charging a bit more and use fast and rapid chargers occasionally because batteries fair best with a “mixed diet” of charging.  

Good to know!

 Jamie Wakeham 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Sealwife:

>... because batteries fair best with a “mixed diet” of charging.  

I'm not sure about that advice - everything I've ever seen suggests that slower charging is better.  I'm not saying I know that they are wrong, but I'd want to see their evidence for this statement.

I use motorway rapids when I have to, but generally I charge at 2kW at home.  Aim to keep the SoC between about 20% and 80% - they don't respond well to being kept for long periods either near discharged or fully charged.

 Hooo 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Sealwife:

It sounds like Scotland have it much better organised then down South then. That's good news for girlymonkey. Do you have to pay a subscription for Charge Scotland? 

I've never heard of mixing up charging before, but it's what I've been doing anyway so I hope that's true.

 Forest Dump 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Hooo:

UK gov stipulated a couple of years ago that all future (2020) EV charge points should be able to operate on a contacless, no registration needed, pay as you go basis

Then Covid came along, but the intent is clear and should streamline the whole multiple app/card/fob situation, eventually 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/all-new-rapid-chargepoints-should-offer-...

In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

> I'm not sure about that advice - everything I've ever seen suggests that slower charging is better.  I'm not saying I know that they are wrong, but I'd want to see their evidence for this statement.

With Tesla vehicles it seems super charging is actually beneficial according to this link.

https://electrek.co/2016/11/01/tesla-battery-degradation/

(I have no experience or knowledge of EVs).

Post edited at 19:24
 wintertree 30 Mar 2021
In reply to jimtitt:

> Indeed, you can look at fleet reviews and see 4.3%/yr for the Leaf and a bit over 2% for Tesla. The cooling is critical amongst other things.

The cooling -or lack thereof - is the key I think.  Our used Leaf came with 40k on the clock and a full condition battery, and it left us 40k miles later and still showing 12 bars of capacity.

The Gen 1  Leaf gets absolutely panned in the US over battery degradation.  I think the lack of active thermal management on the packs over their absolutely kills them; it's much less of an issue here (although Hoo above has clearly had a very different experience to us!).

> I think I was a bit naive and didn't look into the battery condition when I was looking at cars. Don't make the same mistake!

Yup, you need to check - the old gen Leaf displays a 12-bar condition report on the dash; new ones you need to get down and dirty with the ODB - or trust the dealer...  

In terms of preserving your battery life, slow charging in hot weather is probably wise; I bought an after-market AC "charger" (*) from "Zen Car" for £200 that charges at the minimum level of 6A.  This may or may not be related to why we never had any degradation.

* - not really a charger but a fancy pants power cable that performs safety checks and tells the car's onboard charger how much juice it's allowed to draw.

I don't think it's a great time to buy a new EV right now as so much change - models and quantity - is coming to the market right now, and predicting depreciation of existing models is a mug's game other than Teslas.  Some bargains on used.

OP - BIK tax rates are currently 0% for EVs and set to rise very slowly - may or may not be relevant to your situation.

 wintertree 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Hooo:

Options exist for after-market battery replacement and/or augmentation.  Not sure it's worth it mind.

https://muxsan.com/English/index.html

 Hooo 30 Mar 2021
In reply to wintertree:

Mine is old gen and had 12 bars when I bought it. What I didn't realise was that it was only just 12 and it dropped to 11 after a few months. I wish I'd known about Leaf Spy before buying.

I doubt it's worth doing anything about the battery now. I'll just sell it reasonably soon and take the hit if I have to. It's still got more range than a new Leaf 24, so it's got to be worth a reasonable amount?

 Sealwife 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Hooo:

I think I paid a one-off charge for my first Charge Place card but since then I’ve only paid for what Ive used, which is very little as I usually charge at home.  

 Hooo 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Sealwife:

Which is the way it should be.

Down here we have the likes of BP Pulse. If you have a card it works pretty well, but a card costs £95 a year so not worth it for me. Without a card it's such a pain to use them that I would never rely on being able to charge, I always have a backup option.

 Sealwife 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

I had no reason to disbelieve them but haven’t asked for any evidence.  I usually charge at home anyway, because that’s what is most convenient but I will occasionally bung it on a rapid if it’s appropriate.

 Sealwife 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Hooo:

Holy crap that’s expensive.

Chargeplace Scotland is £20 to register then whatever you use (depends on where the charger is located, some local authorities still offer free charging but most now charge).

 Hooo 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Sealwife:

That's not even the worst. With Source London the card is only £10, but charging is £3.50 an hour for a slow charge. So in a Leaf with a 3.5kW charger that's a £1 a kWh.

Post edited at 21:16
OP girlymonkey 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Hooo:

Ooft! Our nearest is free. We were just musing that we could not bother with a wall charger at home and just use the local charge point!

 Jamie Wakeham 30 Mar 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

If you're not fussed about speed, just get a 13A socket on the wall next to where it'll be parked. Over-spec the cable as it'll take a lot of use.

That's what I've done; it cost very little compared to a dedicated EV charger. At 10A (a little over 2kW) your 40kWh battery will go from 20% to 80% in 12 hours or so.

1
 Hooo 30 Mar 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

I've heard about these free charging points, but I've never seen one

If the local one is not busy then why not? Although I like the convenience of charging at home. We charge the car most days, so I'd quickly get bored of taking it somewhere else to do it.

OP girlymonkey 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Hooo:

I think we probably will get one, but it certainly reduces any rush knowing it is there and free. Obviously, we can use the granny cable at home anyway, but if we did need it a little quicker then there is that option nearby. 

I only ever see one car there regularly and there are 2 chargers.

A wee browse on the chargeplace Scotland site seems to suggest a fair number of free ones dotted around (assuming their info is correct?). Many of the ones in public car parks seem to be free and ones in business car parks seem to charge.

 wintertree 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Hooo:

>  I wish I'd known about Leaf Spy before buying.

A dealer should give you an equivalent report.  

Using an ODB reader when buying used privately is an interesting conundrum.  I would be very, very nervous about letting anyone plug anything in to my cars data port when selling, as it gives them the possibility of coding up another key, so they or their burly mate could come by in the middle of the night and wander off with the car.  Conversely they're very useful when looking at buying, especially if the seller doesn't have one and hasn't just cleared all the fault codes.  Some cars also have anti-tamper features where an unsuspecting unit on the CANbus maintains a separate odometer reading (the headlight control module in my car...).

> It's still got more range than a new Leaf 24, so it's got to be worth a reasonable amount?

Didn't realise you'd got the 30 kWh one.  They're quite a different battery I think.  Used Leaf prices seem to have been up and down a fair bit.  My suspicion is old model stuff is going to tank as much higher range cars trickle down to the used market.  Who knows though.  

Post edited at 22:10
OP girlymonkey 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

It looks like we should be able to get some grants to get it installed. Not sure how quickly it is all moving at the moment though. 

Over-specing the cable sounds like a good shout. Thanks

 Hooo 30 Mar 2021
In reply to wintertree:

I suspect the same thing regarding used prices. Another reason to upgrade before too long. I'm still looking at the best part of £30k if I want 250 mile range though, so I think there's still a market for sub £10k cars with 100 mile range.

 Hooo 30 Mar 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

I looked into the grants and it didn't really help much. Basically the installers approved for the grant sell fancy charge points and overcharge for the install so that it doesn't work out any cheaper. Although you should still check it out, as it might be better in Scotland. I got a charger for £150 and got it installed. It worked out much cheaper than any of the grant assisted options. And you can of course use the granny cable, but do be very careful if you need to extend it. Most standard extension leads are not up to charging a car and could catch fire.

OP girlymonkey 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Hooo:

We have an extra grant in Scotland. We can use both together so it works out around £200 - £300 depending on what you want. I haven't seen any as cheap as £150.

 wintertree 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Hooo:

> Most standard extension leads are not up to charging a car and could catch fire.

The rookie mistake is not to fully unwind the extension lead if it comes on a roll.

Any extension lead should be rated for the current, but not when coiled or rolled up and used for prolonged periods, as the heat has nowhere to go from one piece of wire except in to another piece of wire, which is also generating heat.  When you've got 50 loops wound over each other, it gets melty.  Then fiery.

The 13A plug charger inlets normally draw 10A which any extension lead should be up to taking.  I did go over every link in the chain for our charger from the main distribution board to the car with a thermal camera however!

> so I think there's still a market for sub £10k cars with 100 mile range.

Yup; for many people that's fine and I think there could be a boom of people with low daily requirements adopting old EVs.  

 Hooo 30 Mar 2021
In reply to wintertree:

Yes, I understand all that, but so many people don't. There are also lots of extension leads about that are just not up to supplying 10A for hours on end, even when uncoiled. I see them all the time. So I make a point of stressing to people that they should take care and if in doubt not do it. Anyone who knows what they are doing can safely ignore me and get on with it.

 Hooo 30 Mar 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

If you sign up to Octopus energy you get a deal on an Ohme charger, I got mine for £150. It's worth checking out Octopus Go if are going to be charging from home, and if you do, use my link and we both get £50

https://share.octopus.energy/super-liger-382

Post edited at 23:03
OP girlymonkey 30 Mar 2021
In reply to Hooo:

Funny you should mention it, my husband is looking at them right now! Yep, send the link and if we do go with them we will use it

 Hooo 30 Mar 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

Just added it to my post above.

 Sealwife 31 Mar 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

Grants usually fairly efficient for charger installation.  We experienced a delay in getting ours fitted because we are on an island and had to wait until there were enough jobs to make it worth the fitter travelling.  

Ours was done by a company called Jorro who were based in Falkirk I think. 

We had a Zappi fitted as we have solar panels and the Zappi will divert excess solar power into my car battery. 

 S Ramsay 31 Mar 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

If it is a 2015 model then it only comes with a 24 kWh battery. You can only fast charge Leafs of that vintage once every 24 hours so I assume that the same is true for the E-NV 200 which I believe is essentially the same. One fast charge will give you about 50 miles of range depending on the state of the battery. Stirling to Aviemore is 115 miles. That leaves you needing to use a slow charger to finish the journey into town. Home charging could give you 60 miles of range as you can take it to 100% if not fast charging. That still leaves you 5 miles short. Overnight, you would then have to be hooked up at a campsite which many people see as defeating the point of having a van in order to be able to make it home. All it would take is one charger that you had planned on using to be out of order, and a surprisingly high percentage of charges are out of action on any given day, and you will find yourself stranded.

Don't shoot the messenger, I have long ago reached the conclusion that driving lengthy distances for leisure on a regular basis is not compatible with a habitable world and as a consequence very rarely climb outside nowadays. I'm not saying don't get an EV, but something like a Zoe which will use far less energy per mile and have a larger battery would allow you to tour around the highlands. A 24 kwh van will not.

 Toerag 31 Mar 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

2 things kill batteries - excessive cold, and excessive heat. The latter happens when fast charging unless there's decent thermal management.

If you want to know how eNV200s fare on battery degradation / mileage, ask Guernsey Post, they have a fleet of them which they got secondhand.  I'm sure if you ask them a nice, polite question they'll give you an answer. I know the posties like them.

OP girlymonkey 31 Mar 2021
In reply to S Ramsay:

Interesting, that has not come up in threads with people who use them as campers. There is often a mention that rapid charging shouldn't be done too regularly, but people seem to do it multiple times in one journey if I have followed their comments correctly. Maybe it has better cooling of the battery than the leaf?

Regardless, I won't be getting an electric car. We are van users. Most journeys are within range or within one charge. We do have a petrol car in extremis. 

We all have to make lifestyle adjustments to deal with climate change, so maybe we rent a van for the odd occasion that we need it for Gorms trips. Maybe ours will be fine with a couple of rapid charges per day. We will find out and adjust accordingly. 

OP girlymonkey 31 Mar 2021
In reply to S Ramsay:

This thread leaves me with no real concerns about multiple charges

https://www.speakev.com/threads/how-bad-is-rapid-charging-for-the-24kw-e-nv...

In reality, we might drive to Kincraig, plug in the granny cable at a friend's house and cycle to the hills. It will depend on all sorts of things, but I don't feel we have no options!

 S Ramsay 31 Mar 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

I've double checked and I was actually wrong about the one charge per 24 hour thing, that was the 2018 model where Nissan software limited it so that you could only charge rapid once per journey to prevent battery degradation and didn't advertise it. It only came to light when owners found themselves stuck at service stations for hours

OP girlymonkey 31 Mar 2021
In reply to S Ramsay:

That does sound like a badly planned bit of software!!


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