UKH

The recent campervan article got me thinking. I was wondering about the use of WAG bags / clean waste go any where kits.

The description states they are biodegradable, does anyone know if that's truly the case or are they biodegradable after say 200 years? And can they biodegrade in landfill safely i.e in an environment than may not be oxygen rich.

I'm just wondering what the best option is really most campervans can't fit a chemical toilet, so that leave using disposable bags that go to landfill or burying it. Of those two options which is better?  One requires the use of plastics and chemicals, whilst the other isn't exactly ideal for the local environment of done excessively.

We had a van for 5 or 6 yrs before it died, and in that time I can honestly say it wasn't a problem. We went away at least twice a month for weekends, and many many times for longer. Both of us outdoorsy types, happy to wee in hedges etc. But also managed to save poos for pubs (whether drinking or not!), public loos, service stations etc. About 10yrs ago now so can't remember the logistics, but had a week up in far NW Scotland (Ullapool, Applecross etc) and still managed not to poo offensively!

Whilst I wish I could manage it in a similar fashion, I have a bowel condition and my gut runs on a much shorter fuse shall we say.

Sorry to hear that. Thetford Portapotti and Pop up toilet tent. Get a carry bag for obvious reasons. They are bulky, so a last in, first out item. 

Yea, I've looked at stuff like that but it's not exactly usable when at the crag 😅 for me that usually involves a brisk walk to a convinent spot, diet control and timing.

You would need a sherpa to cart one to the crag. Good for any time close to van though and they are well sealed to keep waste inside.

I am a fellow sufferer, crag poos just have to happen for us. 

Well ar least it would get some money back into local communities, maybe I can hire a youth in Beris?

On a side note my main point of this thread was to suss what is the most environmentally friendly option,  baggin it up vs properly burying? 

Generally, I save number 2's for pubs etc. However, my plan is to buy a chemical toilet, it would fit quite nicely under the bed, to be pulled out as needed. It would take up minimal amounts of storage space. If you have an L-shaped bed it's certainly worth considering. If you have a rock&roll bed I'm less sure as I haven't really thought about it.

I guess in the bigger picture, properly burying the poo might be greener, because of the resources used in creating the WAG bag, or similar things, compared to properly buried poo would be absorbed back into the environment through natural processes.

Edit: Beyond the resources, I guess too much buried poo in a certain area could have an impact, too, but energy wise burying poo properly is possibly greener.

What's the environmental impact of borrowing willgriggsonfire's dog for the weekend?

This sort of thing, https://www.gadgets4travel.com/boginabag-foldable-portable-folding-toilet--...

Or one of those large resealable paint/mortar containers and a supply of bags.

Would do,

So far as biodegrading is concerned I think the answer is 'not quick enough' in honeypot locations.

The issue is, how many people are going to 'properly' bury poo?

Walk 3 feet from the van, poke about a bit on the grass verge / river bank with the bright yellow designer trowel with flowers painted on it, bend trowel when it hits a stone, scrape topsoil over pooh, pull up a bit of grass to cover any remaining unburied poo.

Move on and repeat.

Having had a van for a while now and done as one of the other posts says- saved number 2s for pubs, public loos etc, we recently bought an outwell portaloo to have in the van. it's not fixed in place (renault trafic basically converted to fit a bed, bouldering pads, clothes and gear) but it fits in perfectly under the bed so when we need the number 2, just slide it out into the space and there's your toilet. completely changed things and highly recommend. It would likely fit it most vans too.

If you can fit a Porta Potti into a vehicle the size of my old Wheelhome Daneste ( Nissan Vanette) you can fit one onto almost any van .

As a fellow sufferer of mucked-up guts, you both have my absolute sympathy.

Biodegradable takeaway coffee cups and lids take a long time to bio degrade so I am imagine it would be similar with bio degradable plastic bags, so dig a hole option probably best

The solution would be not to go to honeypot locations, obviously.

I suppose that popular crags would still be a problem. Climb hard trad., instead?

Campervan - Get a portapotty. They are pretty small and will fit in most/all vans. There is no excuse.

At the crag/wild camping - depends on the crag/camping location. Popular crag/camping spot I'd use a wag bag otherwise I'll break out the trowel and bury. It's a toss up with an unmanageable amount of buried poo and ineffective biodegradation in landfill.

I'm trying my best! Though esoterica and xs crags may prove an easier alternative.

Indeed it is, the OP sounds like the kind to properly bury it, if they're considering how biodegradable the alternatives are.  

One properly buried poo is a worry free step in the right direction.

Edit: It needs to be eight inches deep, according to a quick google, which is nice to know, having made a hole deeper than that the one time I got caught short. In loamy soil a bike tyre lever can work.

For the frequent and weight conscious user, a titanium 'dig dig' is a good tool, the folding ones and plastic trowels are pretty naff when digging tough ground tbh.

As a runner number 2's are a big part of any pre-run routine. I never find it that hard, I just plan in advance where to stop.

It was made much worse during covid though when everywhere closed toilets for 'hygiene purposes'.. basically saving money.

Just so long as it's happy with wet food rather than biscuits. The thought makes me a little nauseous tbh, though his post had me in stitches!

Chemical toilets can be small and portable. We have one in our T5 no problem.

Unless you're on the Cairngorm plateau, there's absolutely no excuse for failing to bury your waste properly in the UK. 

We have a lot of rainfall here so soft ground down to 8 inches is always available.

A small metal trowel takes very little space in your van/rucksack.

For large parts of the year it's safe to burn your toilet paper in the hole without fear of causing fires, and for the summer just carry it out.

Rather than stigmatising outdoor shitting, we should be educating people on how to do it properly and making carrying a trowel when out and about a normal thing to do.

I've been a van owner for 20 years and I think the days of wandering off from a layby and digging a wee hole are coming to an end/ over unless in dire need.  I live and work on the W coast of Scotland - regularly around the various mountain areas and its safe to say that there is a van or two in most laybys most nights of the month for the summer season.  I have a wee portable toilet with biodegradeable bags to line it and kitty litter to go in the bottom.  Obviously I would first and foremost use a public toilet but I dont think the volume of campers in Scotland / UK is sustainable for the "just dig a hole" method that I have used for years (and still do when wild camping).

(My thinking on this is that an average of 1 van with 2 people in it for 30 nights means theres 60 poos a month (minimum in a lot of places) within walking, staggering etc from the layby).  

Interested in your original question though I dont have space in my van for a chemical toilet.

An american article  but it does cover biodegradable plastics and their alternatives.

https://www.livescience.com/63597-compost-trash-in-landfills.html

In our area they're burning landfil waste in an incinerator to produce energy, so I guess any toilet bags I use would be burnt before it got chance to biodegrade. If a chemical toilet isn't possible, the solution really isn't as clean cut as I'd hoped.

The Hilka one from Screwfix is pretty good and reckon would be reasonably effective against a zombie.

I don't usually respond to dislikes but wtf? What's the alternative for those of us who need to go 6 times a day (or more), does anyone hitting those dislike buttons have any idea what it's like living without a colon?

I've been caught short walking home from the f***ing pub, my condition has left some people unable to leave their homes while leaving others with debilitating tumours.

If sh**ing near the crag gives me some freedom that's fine by me.

Burying used to be an option (or at least seemed to), but now there are simply too many people around the outdoors, so you have to ship it out -- unless really really wild.  Have seen the massive change over the last 20-30 years.  And now add on the COVID UK-outdoors craze...

So some sort of toilet for the van, and bags for the outdoors.  Build your own poop tube.  And/or get a 10l screw top canoe barrel thing (Amazon or Decathlon) for the van that you can load and then seal bags inside.

I feel your pain. There are folk on here who adopt a very strong "go before you go" attitude and then gaily applaud paraclimbers for their achievements.

Some threads have left me flabbergasted. Sufferers damned and insulted for leaving a mess half way up an ice route. No one chooses to do this, if it is done, it is done for a reason. Sure, the aftermath is unpleasant to deal with but try suffering the complaint. 

Granny was right. 

Yea I do think that some people that post replys give much thought to what having these conditions actually entails. I can sometime make it 8 hours without issue, but other days it'd impossible to 'bag up' even if I carried them (imagine trying to fill a sandwich bag using a sprinkler and you'd be getting close!).

The more I think about it, the more getting a Spaniel makes sense.

Keep smiling, and keep going out. Don't let it stop you any more than absolutely necessary. 

There's an incinerator for what would be landfill waste where I live too, which I find a helpful thing given the uncertainty of where some of the UK's recycling can end up.