UKH

No, worse.

youtube.com/watch?v=tJVE9ge1BQ0&

We're going into Brexit led by someone who simply doesn't know what he's doing. He's an idiot - and if you voted for him as leader, you're an idiot too, and you owe all of us an apology.

Every time I think we've hit rock bottom and things can't get any worse, the Tories prove me wrong. Humanity at its most pathetic.

Rock bottom? We've not scratched the surface yet. I thought I'd made my peace with the calamity but then I suddenly thought of all that the country could have done with the time, money and sacrifice that will go into this. Think how much we could get down the line to being carbon nuteral if we were prepared to sacrifice an equivalent amount of growth, GDP and jobs. We could have cured the homeless crisis or the north south divide but instead the only significant project we, as a country (govt), are prepared make sacrifices for is to piss off our neighbours and make us kow tow to fascists home and abroad.

Some more startling ineptitude today, too: 

https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1150838172538068992

Presumably that's what made Amber Rudd come out for No Deal today 

He's a jolly good chap; the right sort... What the devil is wrong with you, by jings!?! 

While I totally agree with your opinion of Johnson I don’t think you’ll be reaching many card carrying members of the Conservative party on this forum.

And there was me thinking that was just because she's an absolute f*ckwit...

Whilst not a member of the Conservative party, I'm certainly more Tory than Labour.

Still think he's a c@nt, though...

Well I'm one. I joined for the sole purpose of voting against Boris, as I saw this coming. I have now done this. If others had too, we would have had Jezza instead. 

But it's an absolute sick joke, beyond all sick jokes, beyond anything I've seen in the UK politically in my 70-year life span: that we are faced with the grim roulette wheel (most of us have no choice) of Bojo, *unt and Jezza. Scarcely believable.

And today we have the news that both Hunt and Johnson have ruled out a time-limited backstop and a backstop with a unilateral exit clause. It seems to be no backstop or no deal.

They've ruled out something that Europe ruled out at the start? What courageous leadership! 

Utter madness.

Johnson is a pragmatic buffoon. In truth, nobody knows what he is going to do. He is as capable of stopping brexit as he is in driving us off a cliff. He is a living Groucho Marx quote: ' I have my principles and if you don't like them, I have others'. 

Not sure about pragmatic; and the extraordinary thing is, he appears to have been diminished by the last 12 months. He seems completely out of his depth, he appears to have enough self-knowledge to realise it, but is being swept along by forces he does not control.

He won't be able to negotiate any significant modification to the Withdrawal agreement, and he must know that; so he is either going to have to force no deal through Parliament - are there really that many Kamikaze Tories and DUP? - or call a general election. That should be an opportunity for Labour to clean up, and/or the LibDems to be resurgent. But we are cursed with one inept leader and a leadership contest between 2 charisma-free nonentities. So any election outcome is going to be 'interesting'.

If there's a GE, the cons will rally to a clear hard brexit position, because they put party above national interest, Labour is still split on brexit, with JC and the gang gagging for it and the membership opposed, so they're toast electorally. The limp dems will gain in remain leaning tory marginals but I don't think it will be enough to stop us launching ourselves off the shite cliffs of brexit.

Yes, when I used the word pragmatic I didn't mean matter-of-fact, realistic, sensible, down-to-earth, commonsensical, hard-headed, expedient nor businesslike. I meant unidealistic. Boris Johnson is unidealistic. 

A lack of ideals gives him a lot of wriggle room. It may, although I think unlikely, allow him to do the unexpected. 

We're nowhere near the bottom yet. Between the election of Boris (let's face it it's going to be him) and Halloween (appropriately) I don't see how we can avoid a parliamentary/constitutional crisis.

Agreed, I just hope the more moderate, competent and responsible MPs will be able to use it for positive and lasting change. I just laughed out loud as I typed that of course.

There's still the power that we as individuals hold. 1 million people marched peacefully in London in March. If it's looking like a no-deal, the march in October will be bigger still. And if that doesn't grab the government's attention, the widespread civil disobedience that is almost certain to follow might...

Fartage will whip up widespread civil disobedience if we don't leave the EU. Genuinely perturbing times.

Johnson will fight to the death for Brexit, for two reasons; first it will get him into the papers and cast him as the hero of a great tale, secondly because the alternative is personal oblivion.

Those are his drivers, I’m afraid.

jcm

I'm game if he is...

I was pondering the similarity between the Reformation (especially Henry VIII's application of it), the English Civil War(s) and Brexit the other day, and where we may end up. It's an issue that seems similarly divisive.

Well if Johnson tries to close down Parliament to get his own way, I'm sure there are enough people queuing up to treat him in the same manner as Charles 1.

I'm not a rabid fan of Royalty, but you have to feel some sympathy for a 92 year old great grandmother being thrust into the centre of the biggest challenge to the constitution and the rule of law for literally 100s of years.

I'm beginning to formulate some sort of theory about Tory support for Boris, who everyone else believes to be a dysfunctional Trumpian misfit; something along the lines that Tories on the whole don't generally have much of a sense of humour, so when they encounter one of theirs who can genuinely make people laugh, they a) are unused to the experience, and mistake it for 'leadership', and b) believe that the ability to tell a joke will translate to electoral success.

Is he unaware of the constraints under which he must operate? He is picking up the most poisonous chalice around and I do sense a slight reticence in him. Either he's holding some dastardly plan close to his chest (probably something dreamed up by his henchman Gavin Williamson) or he's been put up to it as yet another tory human sacrifice.

Boris's one-time boss Max Hastings wrote  recently: ".....blame will rest with the Conservative party, which is about to foist a tasteless joke upon the British people – who will not find it funny for long."