UKH

Hey UKC hive mind, 

I’m thinking about buying a large estate car to replace my van.

I’ve got up to £9k to spend. Am probably looking at getting a 2 litre diesel that is 3-5 years old, with around 80-100k miles on the clock.

I’ve been very happy with the two Skodia Fabia estates I’ve had. 

I was going to get either a Skoda Superb or VW Passat. 

Does anyone have any experience of either of these cars, or have a recommendation of similar models I should look at.

Open to curve ball suggestions too.

Thanks, Tom

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

If you get a Volvo, don't get one with a sun roof.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Curve ball coming at you.

Subaru Outback

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

I have an Astra 2 litre sports tourer estate. Very pleased with it

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Mondeo estate?

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

What are you looking for in the car? I've become an Estate expert as i need to replace mine thanks to ULEZ and spent way too many hours looking for a suitable model (which i still haven't found).

Bear in mind that there's no 3-5 years old cars that i know off where you can fold the rear seats flat anymore to comfortably sleep in the boot, or likewise flip the passenger seat flat so that you can use it as a table/footrest when chilling in the back seat, so they are poor van replacements nowadays.

At that price point i'd be looking for an Octavia Scout if you want a little off-road capabilities ( i.e.https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202010134940405 ) or as Pete sugests an Outback. With regards the Subaru, the Petrol engine is more reliable than the Diesel though, and good luck finding one with that engine if you don't want it with an automatic transmission (which is quite problematic). The 2.5 petrol engines aren't too thirsty and it futureproofs your car somewhat as most cities will be banning or introducing charges for Diesel cars shortly.

If it's just for road use then the Legacy is the same as the Outback but set up for the road. Passats in peasant trim are perversely bare of features, so if you can't get a top trim then go for the Superb.

2 more curveballs, the Mazda 6 Tourer is an excellent if often ignored Estate car. And if you want something you can spend days living out off comfortably then i'd go for an older model. The V50 i got is unmatched by any modern car in that respect and i still haven't found anything that comes close to it.

Fully flat boot/rear seats to sleep in. Fold down passenger seat to have dinner, watch movies off the laptop (with it plugged into the soundsystem. Cinema mode), read books or whatever when sitting in the rear seat. Eats miles like there's no tomorrow. Super comfy to drive. Pretty competent off-roader/dirt track trundler. 65 real mpg if you behave or 55ish if you drive like an idiot. Sub-100g co2 emmision so you don't feel too bad about the mileage. Cost a fraction of your budget even in the top spec with all the nice goodies, a sunroof that doesn't leak and it's your lucky day as i'm selling it. Haha. But yeah, consider low mileage older models if you are after a car to sort of replace your van

Edit: Why does my auto-correct capitalise the word Estate? Weird

In reply to Mr Lopez:

Another curve ball - Ford S-max.

And on the 65 plate we've got the seats go fully flat to give a massive load/sleeping space.

2l Dielsel 180PS and Euro 6, so I think meets ULEZ.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Most reliable probably:

Mazda 6 Estate (1.8/2.0 petrol)
Honda Accord Estate (2.0 VTEC petrol) (expensive)
Subaru Outback/Legacy (2.5 petrol)
Honda Civic Estate (1.8 VTEC petrol/1.6 DTEC diesel)
Toyota Avensis Estate (1.6/1.8/2.0 V-matic petrol - 1.8 probably best)

Avoid a used diesel - could cost you a lot of money when things go wrong, way more than you'll save in fuel costs over a petrol (the Honda 1.6 DTEC is pretty reliable for a diesel)
 

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Have you looked at Berlingos ? Much more useable space than a conventional estate hatchback.

In reply to Gavin:

It's a good call, but out of his budget (and massively out of mine). S-Max are selling at £10k+, and that's for the 'higher' mileage ones at around the 120000 mark.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

I would stick with Skoda, I have a Octavia VRS that im very happy with & would buy another at the drop of a hat. Not what your looking for as its a bit low on 18" wheels and stepped boot. The normal one would be ok and they do a kit to remove the step. Other than that the Mondeo is a very very under under rated car.   Had 2 and 1 did 180k  and was still going well when I sold it. Clarkson really rated it as best value Estate  not that  counts for a lot

In reply to Alpenglow:

I’ve had two used diesels. The first was purchased with 130k on the clock. It died at 328k. The second was purchased with 90k and is still going strong at  203k.

Have I just been lucky?

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

I'm a massive fan of Honda accords; especially the 2.2 diesels, but they are a bit long in the tooth if you are after max 5 years old (although dont be put off, the engines are virtually bulletproof and 250k - 300k is normal before the bodywork gives out. Mines on 198k and drives superbly. 

As an S-max style curve ball, how about a honda crv? Same mechanicals as an accord, but newer version are available. Hold their value very well, which is usually a good sign. Other vote would be for the Mondeo. Not inspiring to the eye but bloody massive inside. 

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

I have a Passat. Pretty pleased with it...got 2 small kids so having a bigger boot (and more space generally) for camping trips etc is great. Would get another...prefer an estate over an SUV. I have the 2l diesel. Road tax (and running costs generally) are fairly low and there's been a few things that have needed doing but nothing major. It's got 90k on it. I also looked at Skoda Superb but that felt a little too big...

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

How many miles do you do a year? I figured out the differential cost between my various options wasn't that significant in terms of annual fuel bill.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Reliable, boring and in-budget - Toyota Avensis Estate?

Chris

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

I've had four Passats over thirteen years, never had major problems or a single breakdown. A potential thorn in the ointment is the engine remapping mod that was carried out to address the emissions scandal issue. This did seem to cause reliability/driveability issues in cars of an age you may be considering. 

In reply to Removed Usercapoap:

The fact that this wasn't the first recommendation means UKC has changed, and not for the better

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

It's not the diesel engines themselves that are unreliable, it's all the complex emissions equipment that fail and then cost several £1000s to fix. Thats why you have older diesels doing 300k, 400k+ without any major repairs.

A diesel is only worth it if you're doing 15k+ miles per year and not lots of short journeys.
Take a look at the data yourself:

https://www.reliabilityindex.com/
http://tools.which.co.uk/car-reliability-check/index.php
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Got a 5 year old C4 Grand Picasso 2litre, diesel. Had it 2 years and would definitely recommend it. I'm 6ft and can lay seats down and sleep in back, have done so a few times of late when travelling between UK and France.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

I've had a Superb for the last 4 years, it was a game changer when I bought it because I was doing high mileage and it was significantly more comfortable over long distances than my previous Octavia.

Still got it, in fact, and they'll have to prise it out of my cold, dead hands, or rather I intend to keep it until what constitutes 'the next generation' becomes clearer - petrol hybrid? All electric? Hydrogen?

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I had a Skoda Superb estate hire car for a week on Shetland, really can't fault it, if I needed a big estate I'd have one. 

In reply to Mooncat:

Oh yes you're right, my estate is also effing big. I could even get all my daughter's stuff for her last year at Uni in a single car load!

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

I've had several Passats and then a Honda Accord. The honda is a great car and as someone else said, almost bulletproof. The Passat is maybe a bit quicker but the honda more reliable. If you do lots of miles the Passat 2.0 is much more frugal than the Honda 2.2 (don't believe the Honda figures). If |I was buying again I go for the Honda. I've now got a CRV and it's only a bit smaller if you fancy a mre SUV style with a hint of 4 wheel traction.

Good luck!

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Depends which diesel you bought but probabaly no, starship miles are common in some diesels. My last two were bought with c.100k on them, one eventually got too rusty with 257k on it and the other was still going strong with 270k on it and we only got rid of it because we got given a 2 year old car with 6k on it.

Generally however I'd avoid smaller engines. Quite a few engines seem to come in say 1.6 or 2.0 versions for example, it always seems to be the smaller ones which are least reliable even if they have better performance figures on paper. Squeezing the balls out of a small engine to get better economy for the same power means something else has to give.

As for curved ball suggestions, how about a 7 seat MPV like the VW Sharan or Ford Galaxy? They have fold flat floor pans without losing headheight (the seats fold into the floor and they have better head height to start with), they are much longer than Berlingos and suchlike and much nicer and less tinny inside. If you fold all the seats away you have a decent sized van and if you just fold the rear 2 seats you have a 5 seat estate with the biggest boot in the world.

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Is an Avensis a bit smaller? I thought they were similar in size to an Octavia/Golf Estate.

What is the current Mondeo like in terms of space? 

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Mondeo Mk4 2.0 TDI.

I have one and it's cavernous. I bought one with all of the bling (heated seats, ti x sport model) and about 60k on the clock for like 6.5k? It's now on 110 and I would love to drive something nicer but I just can't justify it. Does 50 to the gallon cruise controlled to 80mph and never misses a beat.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Toyota Avensis is big and has a completely flat load space with back seats folding flat. Over the years I've had 4 of these and they've all been perfectly good workhorses, if somewhat boring. They are slightly larger than a Volvo V70, but the difference is negligible.

Volvo V70's can be found at good prices. The D2/3/4 engines seem tempting due to higher mpg but the D5 also gives very good mpg if driven reasonably (I average 45mpg out of my XC70 and it's often fully loaded with kit) and has loads more power on tap when wanted.

The Mondeo is huge and I think has a completely flat load bay too, likely to be priced somewhere in between the above 2 options.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Toyota Avensis 1.8 petrol. Save money and get a 10 year old for £5k with 60,000 miles on clock.

Had an Octavia Est. Too many expensive things went wrong.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

I paid £3k for a 2008 Mondeo 2.0 TDCi with 120k miles about 3 years ago, It's now got 160k on it. It's got a lot of power and even driven enthusiastically does 47mpg average, 59mpg cruising at 70mph. Boot floor nice & flat for sleeping in. It is comfortable & quiet & just demolishes long distances. Yorkshire to Scotland is usually 1 stop for pee & that's it. Big fuel tank, range around 750 miles. Only issues so far was starter motor failing & air con slow leak. I expect to be towing my dragster on a trailer with it next summer. It's been support & tow vehicle at the race track for 2 years already, frequently loaded up with as much stuff as I can cram inside for the trek to Santa Pod in Bedfordshire. It might be old but it's one of the best all-round cars I've ever driven.

In reply to Mark Eddy:

Do they really do so in the latest incarnation? (Made from 2015 or thereabouts i think). They do not seem to have a flat load space, rather the backrests laying at an angle instead of flat, in all reviews/videos i've seen. Happy to be proven wrong though.

The Mondeo definitely does not go flat in the MK5's

In reply to Mr Lopez:

Ah, not sure about the latest incarnation. Maybe they've changed the layout slightly. 

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Taxi drivers love Avensis', and I'm sure someone posted on here recently that an AA guy had recomended a Mondeo as they never get called out to them.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide: curve ball Kia ceed sportswagon . I don't own one but had one as a hire car for two weeks and couldn't fault it . Maybe a Few too many twiddly bits  but Don't they have a really long warranty ? A mate just bought a large Mazda ( 6? ) which he spent ages looking for , I m sure he only paid a couple of thousand for a low ish mileage one . I d put that on my shortlist .

In reply to mike123:

I was going to suggest that. I don't know much about cars, but i have the hatchback and it's been comfortable, reliable and economical so far. Also had 6 year warranty which passes on to each owner - i got a headlamp cluster replaced on the warranty with no questions asked.

In reply to jalien:

I have the Kia Ceed Sportwagon. Prior to that I had the hatchback version. Both really solid, reliable cars and the warranty actually works, even after 6 and a bit years.

However I wouldn't class it as a 'big estate', which the OP wss after. It's a bit bigger than the Escort or Golf equivalent, not not Mondeo/Octavia size.

The Sportwagon is a bit short on ground clearance too. I love mine, its a nice car, but maybe a bit small for the OP.

In reply to Gavin:

Another  shout for this. I had one for a while and I was really impressed by its cabin size.

Not sure about budget though.

Edit. Someone has already shot that down.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Bit older but gives you a bit of middle management class, plus towbar.

I just found a great car on Auto Trader.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202009123643307?atmobcid=soc3

In reply to Mr Lopez:

I don't know specifically for the models you have mentioned. But it is quite common for photos online to show the seat backs folded down without the seat bases flipped up. Especially review sites.

This will create the look of a non flat load bay. I had this when looking to change to a newer focus, but when I went to look a one, first thing I did was check the seats folded fully flat. Obviously this isn't the case for VAG estates, they seem to love a stepped load bay.

In reply to jbrom:

Yes that used to be the case, but for some reason when all manufacturers facelifted or released a new generation of the models to introduce the Euro 6 engines that feature was phased out. The rear seat squabs are now fixed in place and also lost the 40/60 or 40/20/40 split they used to have.

Plenty of guesses around forums of why that happened, from maybe complying to new safety legislation, possibly relating to the isofix mounts, maybe to make room for emissions reduction hardware under the seats, all the way to because that makes them cheaper to assemble. Nobody really knows why.

Some Fords have the seat drop down which is the closest to it now, but that was a paid option in some models, mainly SUV's, and still have a little slope. Not too much though, i'd be happy with that if it were more widely available youtube.com/watch?v=nTO2w5-8rIA&

I'm personally considering i may have to just buy whatever and then retrofit a hinge system to them or bodge in squabs from earlier generations. Sketchy as the fuel tank is down there so any drilling is risky as hell. Haha.

P.s. Sorry for hijacking your thread Tom

In reply to Ridge:

I too have a Kia Ceed sportswagon, 59 plate with around 122000 miles on it (24k when I bought it). Been a good solid car for the 7.5 years I've had it.

Agree with what you say a good size, I can sleep flat out in it, and while it's bigger than OPs Fabia but I wouldn't call it a mid-sized rather than large estate.

In reply to paul george:

Another vote for the Honda Accord estate.  Mine was rock-solid, did everything right, and was sold on to my brother-in-law, and it keeps on going.

In reply to Mr Lopez:

Agreed its less common but my 66 reg focus is Euro 6 compliant. Has a completely flat load area and no wheelarch intrusion. Fine for sleeping in, sliding in big loads etc.

But yes, the newest focus for some reason doesn't have flat folding seats, neither do the SUVs. Something that is making me consider a Berlingo or transit connect with removable seats. 

In reply to Toerag:

Every taxi around here has a Skoda badge on the grill !!!!

In reply to jbrom:

Uh thats interesting. So potentially a 66 mondeo estate could be both euro 6 and have a flat boot? Have you got the normal focus or the estate? I do recall mentions of hatchbacks being able to flip the seats but not in the estates. Can't remember what makes that apply to though. 

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

I’ve had a Mondeo - cheap to buy and run, good load space, very reliable but a bit boring to drive.

My favourite car was a Volvo 940. Huge load space, super reliable and cost me the princely sum of £400 with 260k on the clock. I ran it for a few years with zero repairs until someone with no insurance crashed into it and it was written off ☹️

Currently have a ten year old Forester (when they were still more estate than SUV) which is great. Really practical, decent power and a very comfortable drive. Not as economical on fuel as other options though. 

In reply to Mr Lopez:

Its an Estate. 2.0 TDCI 150.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Exactly what I've done and doing. Gone from 55 plate Octavia (loved it, never broke down) to 65 plate Superb and love that too. And waiting for clarity on next gen cars. There just wasn't anything that fit the bill for my usage in the greener options when I bought the Superb (still isn't I don't think).

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

I have a 62 Passat Estate with about 160K on the clock. It's fine and has done us well. The seats are not quite as comfortable for driving compared to other cars we have had. The performance of the VW accredited dealers we have used has made me wonder about getting another make of car next time, but I am hopeful that the little local garage is going to look after us.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Since 2000 I’ve done 170k in a Legacy, then 210k in an Outback but four years ago bought a Superb 4x4 instead. Subaru have dropped the low ratio box, so their USP has gone. Although they were ok, they were not special and parts are dear. The Superb is bigger with a very comfortable ride. Very pleased with it.

David

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

I've got a Range Rover on my big estate.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

I've recently got a Seat Leon ST 2l diesel 150bhp with DSG box. It fitted 6'x3' fence panels in easily, handles very well, is comfortable, economical but surprisingly quick and looks much nicer than it's golf/Octavia/A3 cousin while costing less. Winner.

Andy F

In reply to Mr Lopez: our V50 1.6drive is astonishing. We drove from Verdun to Salzburg without stopping last year without stopping at all. We were in the car for over 6 hours listening to Stephen Fry and felt totally fresh when we finally stopped for a we. The seats are a new level of comfortable. To top it all, when we filled up with fuel, after traffic free motorway driving, we had clocked well over 750 miles on a tank full of diesel- and the V50 has a small tank!

In reply to shuffle:

 "it’s one of the sweetest-driving motors you can get your hands on"  What Car review

In reply to blackmountainbiker:

Yeah, that's what i got as well. I beat having to quarantine on return to the UK a couple of weeks ago by being able to drive Italy to London in 1 tank, which almost laughably cost under 60 Euros to fill.

If i weren't being forced to get rid of it i wouldn't change it for anything

In reply to Myfyr Tomos:

What do you use on your smaller estates?

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Has anybody mentioned the electronic handbrake on Passats?

Everyone I know who's had one has had problems

In reply to Hat Dude:

The main issue is that it isn't automatic if you don't have you safety belt on - something to watch if you disconnect for some tricky reverse parking!

In reply to SouthernSteve:

The main issue from the people I know who've had one is that it fails and the default failure mode seems to be locked on

In reply to Hat Dude:

We have, touch wood, been lucky with that and don't know any others with the problem. Hope I haven't tempted fate.

In reply to Hat Dude:

Electric Handbrake, Another driver aid that is a pain in the arse often goes wrong and cost a fortune to put right and sometimes needs a low loader with an arm to move,  The main reason ive never ever considered a Passat.

In reply to Removed Usercapoap:

It's very important that as many as possible functions in a car are electronic so that you can see how much better the new model is compared with its predecessor ☹️

This is unfortunately a basic problem of a consumption based society - you can't have too many long lasting, good enough (so no further development required) products.

Oh dear, the clocks going back have made me wake up as a cynic 😁

In reply to Andy Farnell:

The Seat Leon ST is excellent and I agree it looks better than its VW group stablemates but I'm not sure it counts as a large estate. Certainly a decent amount of room but not the cavernous proportions seen in the Skoda Superb.

In reply to Michael Hood:

Yes so today we have Cross Traffic Alert from Volvo!!!!!!!! That's so thick people can back out into traffic without looking.. I wonder if it picks up the poor bike rider who's confronted with a Volvo backing out of a drive with a  Cross Traffic Alert driver at the wheel.  I have a bee in my bonnet about such sensors. I have a very small fibre glass sports car and it does not set rear parking sensors  off.  Every year a few get written off by morons who do not look it there mirrors and drive by the  "sensors"

In reply to Removed Usercapoap:

That's useful to know - similarly low (but not low enough) concrete bollards don't always get picked up - oops.

In reply to Removed Usercapoap:

I was very disappointed  (and surprised)to read a statement by Volvo's Head of car safety , claiming that the distraction caused by phones and screens was no worse than other distractions which might have affected a driver of a 40's car.

She went on to say that "the reality is that people want to engage with friends, family, work and entertainment........ so we want to meet our customers where they are, not where we want them to be".

Bit of a contrast with all the Volvo  retro ads I'm seeing at the moment. I'm pretty sure the introduction of seat belts was not a customer led policy.

In reply to Removed Usercapoap:

Every night I take the small amount of time needed to pull up alongside and reverse into my space.  

Far safer than reversing into traffic every morning.  

People are too lazy to bother.  

In reply to Removed Usercapoap:

So presumably they won't pick up small people either?  

In reply to marsbar:

They must all be calibrated very diff erently because mine picks up  bushes and even tall blades of grass.

In reply to marsbar:

I have them on my VRS Estate, yes it picks up bushes and long grass if its wet, Just tried it & it will pick up my legs BUT not my Lotus Elise.?????

In reply to Removed Usercapoap:

Just shows how damn low an Elise is and makes me feel better about the time I had to crawl out of my mate's onto the pavement in front of a bus queue.

In reply to marsbar:

The other advantage is when reversing into the space, you have "control" of the road and then you're left with the easy manoeuvre coming out when you don't have control.

Obvious, init 😁

In reply to Michael Hood:

BMW 520d. V fast, comfortable,stylish and economical. One tank of diesel Calais to nearly Marseille with bikes on top and full up inside. Also had an Audi A6 2.4 V6. V thirsty and died after 120000 miles. Drove a Superb the other day. The 2 litre petrol ones are very good.