Ban disposable bbq's

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mick taylor 01 Jun 2020

Blamed for another moorland fire:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-52867162

Just ban them.  They are a big problem everywhere.  On lake shores, idiots plonk them direct onto the turf, which gets ruined and then water erosion makes it X10 worse.  Loads get left everywhere.  And they're not particularly good.  And whilst I'm at it, ban Chinese Lanterns, the metal bits end up in cattle feed.  Oh, and them helium balloons I keep seeing strung up in trees and hedgerows.

That'll do for now, just ban them 3.

5
 Flinticus 01 Jun 2020
In reply to mick taylor:

With you on these.

I've extracted helium balloons from remote parts of the Galloway forests. God knows how far they drifted before coming down.

Using a disposable BBQ marks you out as a t&at. Its a useful single point indicator of compatibility with another human. 

9
 Rob Exile Ward 01 Jun 2020
In reply to Flinticus:

Noted. I'd better dispose of my stock of them discretely then...

1
 Run_Ross_Run 01 Jun 2020
In reply to Flinticus:

>

> Using a disposable BBQ irresponsibly  marks you out as a t&at. Its a useful single point indicator of compatibility with another human. 

There corrected that for you 👍 

3
 MikeSP 01 Jun 2020
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

A series of small fires, should do it. Caution, may also require food and drink.

 Lemony 01 Jun 2020
In reply to mick taylor:

I'd certainly not argue with a ban and would add that they're just as much of a nuisance in urban parks as in the countryside... buuuut I'd be worried that the unintended consequence would be people building bonfires instead with the same (or worse) outcome.

4
 PaulJepson 01 Jun 2020
In reply to mick taylor:

I bought a disposable BBQ. I replenish the charcoal in it, chuck a couple of fire-lighters in and often take it when I go car-camping. Very cheap and easy way to have bbqs at campsites and I'll always use rocks or bricks if they're provided underneath. 

Anything is 'disposable' if you choose to throw it away. You don't have to though. 

 summo 01 Jun 2020
In reply to mick taylor:

I think some countries already have, not just because of the fire risk, but also litter and lack of recycling. 

I'd add tents at disposable prices to your list. 

3
In reply to mick taylor:

But how will I enjoy my St Bees sunset burger without them? 

It is good to rant but the trouble with calling for regulation is it can lead to.unpredicted consequences, a ban on bbqs & lanterns would likely be a ban on flammable in the countryside which could also, for example, encompass camping stoves as well. 

4
 Ridge 01 Jun 2020
In reply to Lemony:

> I'd certainly not argue with a ban and would add that they're just as much of a nuisance in urban parks as in the countryside... buuuut I'd be worried that the unintended consequence would be people building bonfires instead with the same (or worse) outcome.

We've had both this last weekend. Large amount of dune grass set on fire by a disposable BBQ (at least the numpties who started it were decent enough to call the fire brigade rather than just drive off), lots of scorched grass from BBQs at the village down the road where the masses go for an ice cream, together with bonfires left burning on the beach and rubbish including nappies and human waste left on the grass.

Apparently some bloke called Boris said it was OK.

11
 summo 01 Jun 2020
In reply to Presley Whippet:

> It is good to rant but the trouble with calling for regulation is it can lead to.unpredicted consequences, a ban on bbqs & lanterns would likely be a ban on flammable in the countryside which could also, for example, encompass camping stoves as well. 

If the fire risk is deemed high by the met office/ fire service then yes why not ban stoves, garden fires, bbqs. Some bans should reflect the risk at that point in time. 

Disposable bbqs, there is nothing beneficial for them. 99% burn the ground and a fair proportion are just abandoned as litter. Blanket ban required. 

Post edited at 11:30
1
 profitofdoom 01 Jun 2020
In reply to mick taylor:

No, just get the police to grill anyone found using them

1
 hang_about 01 Jun 2020
In reply to mick taylor:

Cleveland famously had a disastrous experience with helium balloons - worth a Google for Cleveland Balloonfest

mick taylor 01 Jun 2020
In reply to hang_about:

''Cleveland famously had a disastrous experience with helium balloons''

Don't look too bad to me....

Seriously though:  Just looked, never knew that, what a total nightmare.

Post edited at 12:07

 GrahamD 01 Jun 2020
In reply to profitofdoom:

> No, just get the police to grill anyone found using them

As in "you're toast, sunshine" ?

 Tringa 01 Jun 2020
In reply to mick taylor:

Definitely agree about chinese lanterns and helium balloons. I recall, I and a lot of others were not best pleased to be on a train for over an hour on a hot day for a journey that should have been15 mins because a balloon had got caught in the overhead cables.

I sort of agree about disposable barbecues too. I have used them and they work but have always made sure I isolate them any vegetation, make sure they are out when I'm finished with them and take them away and dispose of them properly.

Unfortunately, others do not and at best the barbecues leave a scar on the ground and at worst cause fires, so on balance, I'd go for banning them too.

Dave

 Siward 01 Jun 2020
In reply to Ridge:

Your post rather makes the point that disposable bbq's are not the problem. The problem is the irresponsible effing humans. 

 fred99 01 Jun 2020
In reply to Lemony:

> I'd certainly not argue with a ban and would add that they're just as much of a nuisance in urban parks as in the countryside... buuuut I'd be worried that the unintended consequence would be people building bonfires instead with the same (or worse) outcome.


Building bonfires requires effort. The numskulls who leave their detritus behind wouldn't do anything that required any effort. (And there's generally zero timber available in parks or on peat moorland).

1
 DerwentDiluted 01 Jun 2020
In reply to mick taylor:

I was shocked to discover a while back that Helium is a scarce and possibly finite resource and that there are doubts about its medium term availability for medical use and its long term availability for anything. https://www.resilience.org/stories/2019-05-19/helium-is-a-finite-resource-w...  yet we insist on using it to deposit foil litter in remote areas for fun. It's almost as if our species is terminally myopic.

 Ridge 01 Jun 2020
In reply to Siward:

> Your post rather makes the point that disposable bbq's are not the problem. The problem is the irresponsible effing humans. 

Sadly we can't ban humans.

In reply to mick taylor:

Be careful what you wish for. Cases could be made for banning alcohol, cars even climbing. It's irresponsible behaviour that is the issue not the items themselves. Where would we stop? 

Climbers are leaving crap and litter at crags and being noisy and abusive. Lets ban climbing.  That would seem to be your logic.

Al

3
 Bobling 01 Jun 2020
In reply to mick taylor:

Well the logic of this thread is inescapable.  Let's ban humans!

 Dax H 01 Jun 2020
In reply to mick taylor:

Disposable bbq's have their place, used correctly they are fine. Chinese lanterns have zero redeeming qualities though and should most definitely be banned. 

Helium balloons too, Helium is a scarce resource and has lots of important uses that don't include pissing it away in party balloons. 

1
 kevin stephens 01 Jun 2020
In reply to mick taylor:

I normally avoid Chang.org petitions but this one is worth signing 

https://www.change.org/p/uk-parliament-ban-disposable-bbq-s?recruiter=false...

 balmybaldwin 01 Jun 2020
In reply to mick taylor:

Agree disposable bbqs should be banned.

My local nature reserve in Surrey has been on fire now for 3 days, losing over 20 hectares. Started by people having a BBQ in the middle of a tinder dry heathland

 mrphilipoldham 01 Jun 2020
In reply to mick taylor:

Shouted at a couple with one today at Blackstone Edge. They responded that it was ok because they were using it on a rock. Said I'd make sure they carried it's remains back out, which they did.. however I think he still dumped the coals somewhere first. They did have a big bottle of water so I'd hope they extinguished them.. but if there is a fire up there tonight I have a description and number plate for the police. Utter cretins.

7
In reply to summo:

> If the fire risk is deemed high by the met office/ fire service then yes why not ban stoves, garden fires, bbqs. Some bans should reflect the risk at that point in time. 

This does happen, there was a ban on combustible in the Peaks in recent years. 

> Disposable bbqs, there is nothing beneficial for them. 99% burn the ground and a fair proportion are just abandoned as litter. Blanket ban required. 

If they had no benefit there would be no demand. Considering that the alternative is an open fire, a disposable BBQ is a safer option fire risk wise due to its containment. The occasional abandoned BBQ is clearly a problem as is any litter, it's environmental impact compared with a hillside on fire is minimal.

Carry on, campaign for a ban but don't hold your breath, you will miss the delicious aroma of those burgers sizzling. 

16
mick taylor 01 Jun 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

Thanks for that, signed

 mrphilipoldham 01 Jun 2020
In reply to Presley Whippet:

The alternate is surely either a cheese sandwich, or if you must... a cooked sausage butty wrapped in tinfoil? There is no need for hot fresh food out on the hill (especially in these dry circumstances), other than out of desire - which does not justify the fire risk, or abandonment for litter.

Post edited at 20:51
1
 summo 01 Jun 2020
In reply to Presley Whippet:

The UK needs a proper publicised fire risk scheme. Then if the risk is high all types of fire are banned, punishable by a serious fine or imprisonment. If folk can't understand it, tough they can read up on it whilst serving a little time or doing a few hundred hours community service. 

 Alkis 01 Jun 2020
In reply to Dax H:

> Disposable bbq's have their place, used correctly they are fine.

They are not fine though, their design is entirely not fit for purpose, they cause a hell of a lot of food poisoning incidents. Their lack of proper airflow results in incredibly uneven heat distribution. A simple portable lidded BBQ with bottom vents can be had for 20 quid from the super market and that's reusable and infinitely better at its job.

1
 Dax H 01 Jun 2020
In reply to Alkis:

>  A simple portable lidded BBQ with bottom vents can be had for 20 quid from the super market and that's reusable and infinitely better at its job.

It's not very portable though. On holiday on the bike it's easy enough to grab a disposable to use back at the cabin or cottage we have rented or maybe sit on the beach with one. It's dickheads that are the problem not the item. 

Got to say I have never had food poisoning from a disposable bbq, its not hard to move the food round to the hot bits and make sure it's well cooked. 

 HardenClimber 01 Jun 2020
In reply to mick taylor:

They are also a 'gateway item' paving the way for other litter. (to hot to carry out, therefore abandon, therefore easier to add other litter)

 Alkis 01 Jun 2020
In reply to Dax H:

Albeit not lidded, something like this is £16 and very portable, since it folds flat, but I do get your point, it's something extra to carry.

Also, I have not personally had food poisoning from them either, but a friend of mine who works at a hospital lab has a lot to say about them.

Post edited at 22:34

Nempnett Thrubwell 01 Jun 2020
In reply to mick taylor:

I would argue a bigger contributor to both litter and fires in all areas is discarded cigarettes and smoking related litter.

 I don't know why some smokers feel it's ok to discard their butts justabout anywhere.

so are you up for banning smoking on that basis?

(The worst is when you find butts discarded on belay ledges where it has to have been a climber who discarded it.)

​​​

1
 summo 02 Jun 2020
In reply to Dax H:

Bbq isn't some human right, anytime anyplace etc. If it's not practical to take a conventional bbq then tough, folk can just eat something else. 

4
 Dax H 02 Jun 2020
In reply to summo:

Lots of things are not a human right but we do it anyway. Don't blame the product blame the dickheads. 

 GrahamD 02 Jun 2020
In reply to mick taylor:

Really, we should be looking at ANYTHING  that is marketed as "disposable".

 summo 02 Jun 2020
In reply to Dax H:

> Lots of things are not a human right but we do it anyway. Don't blame the product blame the dickheads. 

Maybe the product is flawed? Takes longer to cool than many people stay in one place,  so it's abandoned. Ground contact increasing fire risk. Additional packaging that is just thrown away. Etc. 

They solve a problem that doesn't really exist. Just take a sandwich instead!! 

1
 summo 02 Jun 2020
In reply to mick taylor:

The Nordic solution. 

https://www.google.com/search?q=grillplats+sjön&tbm=isch&ved=2...

Bring your own charcoal. Although one or two places do have a wood pile nearby. 

After the dry spell two years ago most places have stopped selling any disposables since. If it's high risk, they'll even take bags of charcoal off the shelves in all shops, petrol stations etc.  

Fire risk is high here already and there are restrictions in place. The fire risk is intertwined with the weather forecasts, on tv,  online and newspapers, it's hard to avoid being told there is a rural bbq and garden fire ban. 

Apart from the emissions caused by fire, the damage they cause costs money and crews are at risk in forest fires. I fail to understand why the UK doesn't take the risks seriously, despite massive fires most years. 

 Tringa 02 Jun 2020
In reply to summo:

> Bbq isn't some human right, anytime anyplace etc. If it's not practical to take a conventional bbq then tough, folk can just eat something else. 


Agree, but there are some people who think it is absolutely their right to do whatever they want, anywhere and at any time and perish the thought anyone or any organisation might want to restrict that 'right'.

Perhaps we need to educate people that yes they have the right to do almost anything but only if it has virtually no impact on the environment or others.

I don't really like trite phrases but there is a lot to recommend, 'take only photos and leave only footprints'

Dave 

Rigid Raider 02 Jun 2020
In reply to mick taylor:

We should also ban the sale of drinks in PET bottles as they are one of the worst forms of litter. The only time I ever ventured onto a mountain bike trail I was shocked at the numbers of bottles thrown down by the trail for the first mile or so by seemingly "right on" cyclists.

 Lemony 02 Jun 2020
In reply to Rigid Raider:

>thrown down by the trail for the first mile or so by seemingly "right on" cyclists.

What makes you think they're remotely "right on"? I think you're a little off tack if you think trail centre mountain bikers are eco warriors.

 Pete Pozman 02 Jun 2020
In reply to mrphilipoldham:

> The alternate is surely either a cheese sandwich, or if you must... a cooked sausage butty wrapped in tinfoil? There is no need for hot fresh food out on the hill (especially in these dry circumstances), other than out of desire - which does not justify the fire risk, or abandonment for litter.

Who needs barbecues anyway? It's a crap way to cook food and with my level 2 food hygiene certificate in mind I can never eat one without worrying about food poisoning. There's something utterly naff about all single use things. Have a sandwich then go home and have a proper tea. 

1
 Alkis 02 Jun 2020
In reply to Pete Pozman:

> Who needs barbecues anyway? It's a crap way to cook food and with my level 2 food hygiene certificate in mind I can never eat one without worrying about food poisoning.

That's because most people have no idea how to BBQ or even have any concept of what good BBQ cooking is. Guesswork and burning the outside of your food while the inside remains raw is not it. It involves a controlled burn, indirect heat, preferably smoke.

Post edited at 09:55
 FreshSlate 02 Jun 2020
In reply to summo:

> I think some countries already have, not just because of the fire risk, but also litter and lack of recycling. 

> I'd add tents at disposable prices to your list. 

What price would you set? I'd really like to know. I had a go outdoors £40 tent from about 2010 to a couple of years ago when it finally gave up the ghost. I probably spent a month a year in that thing and took it for trips to the states and things. 

I patched it where a mate had dropped the door on a hot stove and had sewn new eleastic to the inner as the previous lot had perished. It was brilliant tent and never leaked and I only gave up on it after a couple of tent poles broke in the reminants of a major hurricane. 

There's a lot of actually really good quality cheap gear out there and when you're not very well off, a tight bastard or both (like I was) and you will get years if not decades out of stuff. I'd bet that I get far more mileage out some of my cheap stuff than plenty of users who have much more expensive gear. 

Obviously with this mindset I find people consciously ditching tents at festivals pretty much incomprehensible. 

 Siward 02 Jun 2020
In reply to GrahamD:

> Really, we should be looking at ANYTHING  that is marketed as "disposable".

Condoms, for example

(I'll get me coat). 

Post edited at 11:17
 summo 02 Jun 2020
In reply to FreshSlate:

I'd agree. But I wonder percent of tents sold like yours are still in use.

 Pete Pozman 02 Jun 2020
In reply to Alkis:

I'm coming round to your house 

cb294 02 Jun 2020
In reply to summo:

Banned in Sweden during the dry summer two years ago, and rightly so!

CB

 Pete Pozman 02 Jun 2020
In reply to FreshSlate:

You make a good point. I eked out the life of a WWII billy tent that my Uncle Austin gave me in the fifties until well into the eighties. There's no need to spend a fortune on gear, especially if you don't mind being uncomfortable. 

cb294 02 Jun 2020
In reply to Pete Pozman:

Then you are doing your BBQs wrong. The path is the goal, so if you flash burn the outside of your food you miss out on the fun! Start the fire with wood shavings, wait for the coals to achieve perfect heat, and enjoy your first pint before the first food even sees the grill. Then, use excellent quality meat, such as you would be happy to eat as raw mince, rather than supermarket burger pattys that had been relabeled twice when they exceeded their best before dates, and you are set!

CB

 Johntherock 02 Jun 2020

Cross-posted from another thread, because the problem is so massive:

In that hot summer of 2018, I was working occasionally as a shore angling guide/tutor on the Cardigan Bay coast, something I hope to get back into later this year or next, depending on how CV-19 events pan out. Anyway, one evening a customer and I fished into the dusk at Ynyslas, near Borth, and as we walked back there was a very detectable whiff of stuff burning. Getting closer, I located the source of this smell. Someone had enjoyed their barbecuse, then up-ended said "disposable" item into a load of sand full of driftwood fragments. Coals were still red-hot. The tinder-dry dunes of Ynyslas started about a metre away. Oh, and they had placed a couple of large stones on top of it, for some unknown purpose (!)....

I had my standard 2 litre water bottle with me and it took several walks back down to the sea to get sufficient water to extinguish the heat. The first few simply billowed off as steam. As I said to the customer, "This is a National Nature Reserve, FFS". The "disposable barbecue" really needs to be disinvented ASAP.

 FreshSlate 02 Jun 2020
In reply to Pete Pozman:

> You make a good point. I eked out the life of a WWII billy tent that my Uncle Austin gave me in the fifties until well into the eighties. There's no need to spend a fortune on gear, especially if you don't mind being uncomfortable. 

That's really good going! I should make a thread for all the gear that people have taken well beyond the recommended use-by date. 

 Alkis 02 Jun 2020
In reply to cb294:

> Start the fire with wood shavings, wait for the coals to achieve perfect heat

Nah, only if you do it as a special occasion. Otherwise, use a starter funnel to get the coals grey in 10 minutes flat, put them in on one side, lid on, reduce the airflow until you get to the desired temperature, wet wood chunks on for smoke, meat on the "cool" side and go for the win, even for a busy midweek dinner.

There are very few things I blast with full direct heat, aubergines for baba ganoush (which go directly on the coals until the skin is basically incinerated) and sliced lamb ribs smashed so thin that they cook through in seconds on direct or indirect heat.

Jeez, this is quite a hunger inducing discussion and quite off topic, other than it discusses cooking techniques that are beyond those horrible things that people call disposable BBQ's.

Post edited at 17:43
cb294 02 Jun 2020
In reply to Alkis:

Last weekend I tried a new trick (new for me, at least) for jerk chicken: Since I cannot afford pimento or mesquite wood chips (and it would anyway be rather perverse to ship BBQ wood over the Atlantic) I previously I just chucked  pimento berries into the coal.

Turns out it is much better to "marinate" some apple wood chips with squashed pimento berries while marinating the chicken, and then wrapping the wet wood chips in a tinfoil packet, poke some holes in it to let the steam escape, and use that for smoking.

Now I get hungry....

CB

 GrahamD 03 Jun 2020
In reply to Siward:

> Condoms, for example

> (I'll get me coat). 

I take your slightly tongue in cheek point (you could have added big roll), but condoms aren't marketed as "disposable" as if that were a desirable product feature.


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