Bad TV / wifi

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 Jon Stewart 19 Dec 2021

The TV in the kitchen barely works any more, despite being less than 2 years old. I did buy it from Currys PC World, so perhaps it's my fault.

I use it to watch youtube, pretty much exclusively, so I cast from my phone to the TV. It's always parted company from the wifi every few weeks at least, sometimes going through bad patches, but in the last few weeks it has become totally unusable. I'm pretty sure it's just TV-wifi connection that's the problem, but it's not always very forthcoming about whether or not it is, is not, or is partially connected to the wifi.

At the same time, I've noticed that when I go through menus with the remote it's slow to respond, like a bad, old computer.

So, what's the best way to approach the problem?

Spend say £30 on a wifi range extender and see if that helps? Seems odd since it's not far from the router, but it is downstairs in a slightly basementy part of the house? Nothing else seems to have trouble with the wifi... Or buy a better router maybe?

Smash it up with hammer and buy a decent one, and a decent sound system to replace the absolute bollocks I've attached to this one that sounds like a sack of crap?

Any further suggestions welcome - thanks.

Post edited at 11:53
 Sam W 19 Dec 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Maybe Chromecast/Fire Stick/Roku so you're not relying on the TV to maintain the WiFi connection?

OP Jon Stewart 19 Dec 2021
In reply to Sam W:

Thanks, that sounds like just the right option to start with.

"Make your smart TV that doesn't work into a smart TV that might work!". Not quite as good as a TV that just works, but that's life.

Post edited at 12:08
2
 Rob Parsons 19 Dec 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

You could try to establish whether or not wifi is the cause by temporarily running a network cable from your router to the TV.

OP Jon Stewart 19 Dec 2021
In reply to Rob Parsons:

Sounds sensible. But would require either a long network cable or a right lot of faff, just to get started on the diagnosis...

 Martin W 19 Dec 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Decent lengths of Cat5/6 cable can be surprisingly inexpensive on the 'bay and elsewhere, and can often come in handy for troubleshooting connectivity issues.

Another alternative might be to try a powerline extender.

 Maggot 19 Dec 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> At the same time, I've noticed that when I go through menus with the remote it's slow to respond, like a bad, old computer.

Try a 'factory' reset/install or whatever it's called.

Have you tried the TV WiFi operation with it next to your router?

OP Jon Stewart 19 Dec 2021
In reply to Maggot:

> Try a 'factory' reset/install or whatever it's called.

Fresh install a very regular occurrence.

> Have you tried the TV WiFi operation with it next to your router?

Might try this cause I can move the router easily, the TV less so. Ta.

 deepsoup 19 Dec 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Dumb question possibly, but have you tried using a wi-fi analyser to see what else is using the wi-fi bandwidth and which channel(s) it's on?  (I have a free open-source app on my Android phone imaginatively called "WiFiAnalyser" that seems to work well.)

Bit of a long shot, but perhaps your TV's wi-fi connection is clashing with next-door's router, or a wireless thermostat or something else in that 2.4GHz bit of bandwidth in which case just changing your router to a different channel might help.

 GrahamD 19 Dec 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Obvious thing to try is sitting the TV by the router to see whether you still have a problem.   Problem with WiFi in kitchens is that microwave ovens work on the same frequency as WiFi and will play havoc with the signal. 

 Rob Parsons 19 Dec 2021
In reply to GrahamD:

> Obvious thing to try is sitting the TV by the router to see whether you still have a problem.   Problem with WiFi in kitchens is that microwave ovens work on the same frequency as WiFi and will play havoc with the signal. 

Not a bad suggestion but, if your microwave oven is leaking radiation, then you have problems other than bad wifi reception.

The effects will be deterministic in any case: the microwave can only interfere if it's actually running.

Post edited at 18:50
1
 deepsoup 19 Dec 2021
In reply to Rob Parsons:

> if your microwave oven is leaking radiation, then you have problems other than bad wifi reception.

If your microwave oven is leaking radiation and you haven't already noticed, you don't really.  Well, not particularly serious ones caused by that anyway.  2.4GHz-ish microwaves can't really hurt you other than by making you hot.

OP Jon Stewart 19 Dec 2021
In reply to GrahamD:

> Obvious thing to try is sitting the TV by the router to see whether you still have a problem.   Problem with WiFi in kitchens is that microwave ovens work on the same frequency as WiFi and will play havoc with the signal. 

Yes, with the router downstairs it's currently working. We'll see if this is reliable or if it's just in a good mood. And if it doesn't cause problems upstairs, I'll have a solution of sorts.

Cheers all

 Wimlands 19 Dec 2021
In reply to Sam W:

It’s early days but I have to say that using our newly purchased Roku is a pleasure compared to using our so called “smart” TV…

Post edited at 21:20
 CantClimbTom 19 Dec 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

It's caught Unicron, it'll feel better in a week or so

 GrahamD 20 Dec 2021
In reply to Rob Parsons:

> Not a bad suggestion but, if your microwave oven is leaking radiation, then you have problems other than bad wifi reception.

Your microwave WILL leak radiation.  It's inevitable.   Sit near one with a spectrum analyser if you are skeptical.   The levels will be (or should be) very low - but then WiFi (and Bluetooth) are also very low.

 GrahamD 20 Dec 2021
In reply to Rob Parsons

> The effects will be deterministic in any case: the microwave can only interfere if it's actually running.

This is true, but sometimes isn't always obvious because devices buffer their data so the impact of interference can be seconds after the event.

 GrahamD 20 Dec 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

It's not particularly unusual for some rooms to have weak WiFi coverage.  I've got a smart speaker in our kitchen and reception for it is patchy.

 GrahamD 20 Dec 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Oh, should add, your phone can give a crude indication of WiFi signal strength, so you can compare coverage in different parts of different rooms easily enough.

 timjones 20 Dec 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Kitchens can produce levels of condensation that don't suit fancy electronic devices.

If all else fails it may be worth popping the TV in the airing cupboard for a while to see if things improve.

 freeflyer 20 Dec 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

If you don't mind spending a bit more money to make all your wifi woes go away, you could try a TP-Link Deco M5. This worked for me.

 StuPoo2 20 Dec 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

I'd be inclined to ignore the microwave theory to begin with and start with some basic tests.  (I'm not saying its not the microwave ... only that there is easier stuff to test with before you go there)

  1. Who is your ISP?  What is your minimum speed guarantee?
  2. What speed does your ISP actually deliver, wired, to the premises?  i.e. are you getting your min speed guarantee or do you need to start there first before you do anything else?  Plug a laptop/deskop into the router and test with  https://www.speedtest.net/
  3. What wifi speed are you getting 1m from the router?  Take out phone test with https://www.speedtest.net/
  4. What wifi speed are you getting with your phone propped up against the TV in the kitchen?  Same test above (What I'm looking for here is "how much have you lost between your router and your TV?"
  5. How many walls/rooms does it have to go through to reach the Kitchen?  Are the walls the brick?

These are probably the starting questions for any situation like this.

The suggestion to run a long ethernet cable to test is a good one.  20m = £11.99 off amazon.  Not a bad thing to have kicking about.  

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0757KR66Z/?coliid=I35VSVZ2QB3UMC&colid=15F...

What brand is the TV?  A number of cheaper brands of smart TV start to run slow after a couple of years.  The apps get updated - they want more grunt - the TV doesn't have it.  To set expectation - your iPhone has likely a tonne more processing power than the TV does.  If the TV is still sluggish when its cabled and you have reasonable speeds from your ISP - then you're TV is, sadly, likely at its limit.  Try a hard reset of the machine if supported.

Recommendations:

1) For TV's .. wired is always best .. there is only downside for using WiFi with a TV - no upside.  If you have access under your floor .. it is actually an easy job to run Cat6 (Don't bother with Cat5 - no one is running it for new installs anymore).  If you use Ethernet Keystone Couplers .. there is no crimping/termination - plug and play.  (with a face mounting plate obviously).  Place mounting plates next to double sockets - given you'll need power for your TV anyway.

https://www.cablemonkey.co.uk/cat6-modules-outlets/14232-cat6-utp-keystone-...

2) Mesh WiFi routers are the future.  Bath your house in WiFi.  Ensure it has a third band for comms.  If it were me - I'd make sure it was WiFi 6/6E too.  

3) At some point in the futre you are likely going to be offered a optical fibre line to replace your copper.  Take it.  Like day and night.  Your copper is going to get turned off eventually anyway.

I use both 1), 2) & 3) above.  I cable the TV's and I use mesh WiFi to cover the house in WiFi.  Cabling the TV means that they don't use unnecessary WiFi bandwidth when in operation - which means the WiFi network runs faster for those devices that can only work with WiFi.  Out of the Mesh WiFi system I get ~80% of the speed I get wired .. and I get that across every room of the house.

 Cobra_Head 20 Dec 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Have you replaced and bulb / lamps around the time it turned shite? Lot's of LED stuff jacks up the wifi.

OP Jon Stewart 21 Dec 2021
In reply to StuPoo2:

Thanks for the comprehensive reply. I don't quite understand it all, but it's now saved here for if the time comes when I need a more future-proofed solution.

> I'd be inclined to ignore the microwave theory to begin with and start with some basic tests. 

I am ignoring the microwave theory since I don't have one.

In reply to GrahamD:

I had the router next to the TV for a bit and it worked fine. But then it was crap for the top floor. So, I've moved the router back to the middle floor where it lives, and the kitchen TV is now doing OK. It's as if the short period of intimacy has strengthened the relationship. We'll see how it goes.

What I find most hard to understand is the variance over time. Why should the connection between the TV and WiFi go through gradually and then improve again? If it stays as now, I can cope. 

In reply to Jon Stewart:

> What I find most hard to understand is the variance over time.

WiFi is a dynamic environment. Routers automatically change channel to get the best performance. New wifi devices some and go in your neighbours. Multiple WiFi devices on your network have to share bandwidth. Interferers come and go.

It may be that disconnecting the router to move it caused it to change channels when it powered up again. In the management interface, there is usually a setting to set the channel manually, or to have it change automatically. That's assuming you don't have an ISP-supplied router that is so dumbed-down as to be useless.

OP Jon Stewart 22 Dec 2021
In reply to captain paranoia:

Interesting, thanks.

It's not an ISP router, theirs never arrived in the post, twice. It's a crap one from Wanky Warehouse (PC World). I suspect if I just bought a better router, nothing too fancy, then it'd be fine. The only thing I want to add onto the WiFi in the foreseeable is a central heating controller. 

 StuPoo2 22 Dec 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> I am ignoring the microwave theory since I don't have one.

hah - good plan!

> Thanks for the comprehensive reply. I don't quite understand it all, but it's now saved here for if the time comes when I need a more future-proofed solution.

Let me know what bits need explaining and I'll a bit more color/background.  

> It's not an ISP router, theirs never arrived in the post, twice. It's a crap one from Wanky Warehouse (PC World).  I suspect if I just bought a better router, nothing too fancy, then it'd be fine. The only thing I want to add onto the WiFi in the foreseeable is a central heating controller. 

I wouldn't spend anything until you've run those tests I suggested higher up in the thread.   

Buying a new router is a good plan ... that being said if it were me I would still spend the money on an Mesh WiFi system over a router.  For background - imagine you didn't have 1x router .. but instead had 3x (or more) ... each covering a different part of the house, all able to talk to one anther and together a creating a single cohesive WiFi network where you seamlessly transition from one router to the next without even realizing it.  That's what Mesh WiFi is. 

If you want a router - NetGear, amongst others, will sell you a tank of a router that will be a magnitude of order more powerful than what your ISP would have provided you with/own brand PC World.    NetGear Nighthawk gets a good write up [1] not cheap at all.

Alternatively - there are cheaper mesh WiFi systems in price range not dissimilar to a new router price range (much cheaper than a Netgear Nighthawk!!!).  You can spend a lot on something like the netgear Orbi Mesh WiFi (That's what I use) and they are fantastic but there are plenty lower cost Mesh WiFi options that will likely be satisfactory for most users - especially if you drop the tri-band requirement.  Google Mesh Wifi [2] - £135 or Amazon's own Eero Mesh WiFi [3] - £164 ... both have a hub and 2x satellite pucs to be located around the house, both get good write ups and both likely to do the job well for a non-power user (I mean no offence at all by suggesting that you might be a non-power user - call me out if I am wrong.)

Adding your heating controller will add ~0% load onto your wifi network.  They use exceptionally low bandwidth compared to something like NetFlix.  I wouldn't worry about that one.

[1] https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=netgear+nighthawk&sprefix=netgear+ni%2Caps...

[2] https://www.amazon.co.uk/Google-Wifi-System-works-coverage/dp/B096KW3MBK

[3] https://www.amazon.co.uk/eero-mesh-wi-fi-system-3-pack/dp/B07WHMJ6XN

Post edited at 11:39
 The Lemming 22 Dec 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

>  At the same time, I've noticed that when I go through menus with the remote it's slow to respond, like a bad, old computer.

> So, what's the best way to approach the problem?

My money is that the TV is the problem and not your wifi.

You could use a wifi analyser app on your phone to see how strong the signal is in the part of the house where the TV is.

You could buy a TV with an eithernet connection and have a direct connection to your router?

In reply to The Lemming:

> My money is that the TV is the problem and not your wifi.

If you read further into the thread, you'll see that moving the router next to the TV seemed to resolve the problem. This suggests the TV might be okay, unless the TV problem is a crap wifi transceiver.

OP Jon Stewart 22 Dec 2021
In reply to captain paranoia:

> > My money is that the TV is the problem and not your wifi.

> If you read further into the thread, you'll see that moving the router next to the TV seemed to resolve the problem. This suggests the TV might be okay, unless the TV problem is a crap wifi transceiver.

I think there's some shitness on the part of both the router and the TV. I'm currently sat upstairs happily watching youtube and doing stuff online on 3 devices while the router is downstairs near the offending kitchen TV. No problems here (but go up a floor and it's bollocks).

However, bring the router up here (where it's supposed to live, being the middle floor) and the kitchen TV downstairs will lose contact after a while. So it's not just distance/topography: a phone or laptop has no problem connecting to the WiFi in the kitchen, but for the Wankers World TV, it is too much to ask.

This thread has given a range of solutions that are all convincing, which is great.

 The Lemming 22 Dec 2021
In reply to captain paranoia:

> > My money is that the TV is the problem and not your wifi.

> If you read further into the thread, you'll see that moving the router next to the TV seemed to resolve the problem.

After I blindly made my comment, I read the discussion. 😀

I quite like the idea of this mesh wifi and should I move house and my router not cope then I will give it a try.

As it is, my router is in a two-up-two down semi with a couple of walls, max, to contend with.

Its also great for encrypting all my internet devices when I connect to that big bad world.

Four years ago, I treated myself to a Linksys WRT1900ACS Dual Band. Phenomenal bit of kit that has yet to drop a beat unencrypting 100mb download speeds.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

> So it's not just distance/topography: a phone or laptop has no problem connecting to the WiFi in the kitchen, but for the Wankers World TV, it is too much to ask.

That might be, as i suggested, a crap WiFi transceiver in the TV.

OP Jon Stewart 22 Dec 2021
In reply to captain paranoia:

> That might be, as i suggested, a crap WiFi transceiver in the TV.

Yes. Running an ethernet cable to the TV is awkward and a faff. Smashing the TV up with a hammer would be satisfying, but replacing it would be expensive. Even though it's largely TV's fault I think improving the WiFi is a better, cheaper, more convenient option with potential side-benefits. I can't imagine, given how small the house is and how modest my requirements are, that I need mesh WiFi though.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Powerline adaptor is another option. Or even a wifi to ethernet adaptor. I've managed to pick up both in charity shops for silly money. I got a Sky SC201 for £1, and a tp-link powerline pair, NIB, for £10. Annoyed that I missed a single Netgear adaptor for £1...

Post edited at 22:54
 GrahamD 23 Dec 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

It's not necessarily the TVs fault.  Video streaming is relatively high bandwidth compared with, say  browsing and will be more significantly impacted by low signal strength or interference. 

OP Jon Stewart 23 Dec 2021
In reply to captain paranoia:

Yeah, powerline adapter looks the business. Think that solves it. My mate something about getting the WiFi through the electric socket, so that's what he was on about.

Thanks! 


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