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Any roofers or builders in the house? Advice needed.

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 Postmanpat 14 Nov 2022

  I've got leakage into the attic and it seems that the lead flashing needs replacing . There's about 8-9metres of flashing in the valleys that need replacing , brickwork repointed etc  and will require scaffolding towers constructed front and back of the (3 storey) house to do it.

  I'm being quoted £1900 for the job and £1500 for scaffolding which seems a bit steep even for West London.

  Are they taking the piss or is that about  what it costs?

2
 OCDClimber 14 Nov 2022
In reply to Postmanpat:

Get several quotes. I had a leak on my dormer.  The first roofer quoted £3500, the second quoted £3000, the third had a quick look, replaced a few inches of flashing and did not charge me anything.

2
In reply to Postmanpat:

Had some roof work done at my work. Leaking in three places: flashing and pointing needed, £1.5k, paid it. Another quote was for a more thorough, long term fix plus fixing i thermal ceiling and plaster which needed scaffolding - £4K.  So your quotes seem in the right ball park. I’d be in my work now, but I’ve forgot my blooming keys!!!!

 neilh 14 Nov 2022
In reply to Postmanpat:

Sacffolding is always the killer on these roof jobs. The days of ladders have gone. £1500 in your part of the world for scaffolding access to the roof looks about right.

In reply to Postmanpat:

In terms of scaffolding, you can certainly save money by sourcing it yourself. I've had scaffolding quotes of eg £1200 plus VAT for a particular job from the folks doing the job (chimney rebuild) but I ended up getting the scaffolding for £750 cash from a local scaffolding company. Get multiple quotes and assessments of what needs doing.

2
In reply to Postmanpat:

quotes varies a lot also if it's going to be Zinc or Lead valley.

If they are redoing the valleys with lead it seems expensive, but sadly not unexpected

OP Postmanpat 14 Nov 2022
In reply to Postmanpat:

Thanks for replies. I've tried to get alternative quotes but they are all working full tilt after the recent rain. It sounds like it's not a ridiculous quote.

 Mike Stretford 14 Nov 2022
In reply to Frank the Husky:

> In terms of scaffolding, you can certainly save money by sourcing it yourself. I've had scaffolding quotes of eg £1200 plus VAT for a particular job from the folks doing the job (chimney rebuild) but I ended up getting the scaffolding for £750 cash from a local scaffolding company. Get multiple quotes and assessments of what needs doing.

Good advice but always worth checking that VAT is being paid when they ask for cash. It has been a problem in the trades and it's obviously wrong for them to undercut the law abiding competition by tax dodging, and unfair on the rest of us and those that do depend on public services.

10
In reply to Postmanpat:

> Thanks for replies. I've tried to get alternative quotes but they are all working full tilt after the recent rain. It sounds like it's not a ridiculous quote.

Hate to say this but often if a tradesperson can come and do a job quickly when the rest are booked up for a long time there is often a reason for that. 

3
 jiminy483 14 Nov 2022
In reply to Postmanpat:

This won't be much help but I changed my roof a few months ago and paid 400 for 2 story scaffold front and back. Roofer was 1250 labour to replace entire roof including timbers but I was working with him. I love living up north

3
 Rob Exile Ward 14 Nov 2022
In reply to jiminy483:

Are you anywhere near Kendal?... Please?

 mike123 14 Nov 2022
In reply to OCDClimber: 50 p says you dont live in that London 

In reply to Postmanpat:

I paid £1500 to have two leaded valleys replaced in what I think was fibreglass. It needed concrete roof tiles to be cut to shape. It felt expensive at the time but I was desperate. They did it on ladders. Come to think of it, he knocked £200 off that because he got it done quicker than he thought.

I also had two sides of the house repointed (two and a half stories, lime mortar, natural stone) for about £1000. The scaffolding quotes ranged from £300 to £800 plus VAT. The scaffolders were reasonably relaxed about how long I needed it for.

This was Derbyshire, so probably of little help!
 

 jiminy483 14 Nov 2022
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Afraid not, over the other side, the roofer complained about having to drive 25 miles from Redcar to Darlington so I don't think he'd drive to Kendal. The scaffolders might but they were a bit...erm...unprofessional. The roofer decided we needed to tie the scaffold to the roof at one point. I thought he was being a bit melodramatic.

2
 Uncle Derek 15 Nov 2022
In reply to Mike Stretford:

> Good advice but always worth checking that VAT is being paid when they ask for cash. It has been a problem in the trades and it's obviously wrong for them to undercut the law abiding competition by tax dodging, and unfair on the rest of us and those that do depend on public services.

People who pay cash, no they are doing a dodgy deal, and that no Tax will be paid, not just VAT, but Income Tax or NI. Also the job will not be covered by any Builders Liability Insurance, even if they have any. Also it is more likely that health and safety could be lax. I am pretty sure that in this case, if there was an accident, involving the scaffolding, the home owner could partly liable.

So all in all its rubbish and immoral  advice, particularly as IIRC Frank was a Paramedic, paid by the state, but avoiding tax, WTF is that all about ¯_(ツ)_/¯

1
 Mike Stretford 15 Nov 2022
In reply to Uncle Derek:

> People who pay cash, no they are doing a dodgy deal, and that no Tax will be paid, not just VAT, but Income Tax or NI. Also the job will not be covered by any Builders Liability Insurance, even if they have any. Also it is more likely that health and safety could be lax. I am pretty sure that in this case, if there was an accident, involving the scaffolding, the home owner could partly liable.

> So all in all its rubbish and immoral  advice,

By good advice I was referring to the bit about getting separate quotes for scaffolding rather than an all in price from the roofer. The rest of my post was a little tongue in cheek and little attempted  tactfulness while making my point.

 magma 16 Nov 2022
In reply to neilh:

> Sacffolding is always the killer on these roof jobs. The days of ladders have gone.

really? even for replacing a few slates? (about 10 came down in recent gales)

 Rob Parsons 16 Nov 2022
In reply to magma:

> really? even for replacing a few slates? (about 10 came down in recent gales)

Small jobs like that will be done using ladders (or ropes from above, if it's a tenement building, for example.)

 neilh 16 Nov 2022
In reply to Rob Parsons:

Agreed

 magma 16 Nov 2022
In reply to neilh:

phew. i'm hoping for somewhere around £200 for my work..

In reply to OCDClimber:

> I had a leak on my dormer. 

Was the roofer using the loo?

 StuPoo2 16 Nov 2022
In reply to Postmanpat:

Agree with others ... scaffolding is the part that most fail to price into these jobs.

If you think of Scaffolding as an income generating asset - it might help.  Either the scaffolding is on a job earning money or its sitting in the yard rusting and slowly becoming a liability.  No one wants a liability.

Not all roofers will have their own scaffolding.  If they do not - then they'll need to subcontract a scaffolding company to come in and erect at the start of the week and then come back at the end to tear down and clean up.  That is a cost of the job that happens no matter if no work actually takes place on your roof at all.

If the roofers do own their own scaffolding then they are incentivized to have it working as much as possible.  i.e. if they've not got it on their own job - then lease it to a friend who needs it.  That means they'll price the use of their own scaffolding close to market rates into any job they bid for  (Which is entirely fair).

Maybe worth also noting that they'll likely have to price the scaffolding job for the full week.  Will take a day to erect and day to tear down at either end .. and unless it's reasonable that the job could be done in a day AND that the scaffolding company could lease out the scaffolding for a half week (unlikely) ... then you're looking a week long scaffolding job.

More towers = more cost obviously.

1
 Fraser 16 Nov 2022
In reply to magma:

Ladders have been strongly frowned upon by competent/considerate contractors for a long time. I think most construction industry deaths are due to falls from height; ladders just aren't considered 'good practice', despite how cheap and convenient they might seem.

Post edited at 12:51
 Rob Parsons 16 Nov 2022
In reply to Fraser:

> Ladders have been strongly frowned upon by competent/considerate contractors for a long time. I think most construction industry deaths are due to falls from height; ladders just aren't considered 'good practice', despite how cheap and convenient they might seem.

I don't think many roofers would erect scaffolding to repair a couple of slipped slates. And, even if they did have scaffolding up, they would still need to use ladders to access the actual slates on the pitched roof itself.

Post edited at 13:01
 Fraser 16 Nov 2022
In reply to Rob Parsons:

I agree! But that's not what I was getting at. Plus, if you fell off a ladder lying on the roof to access the slates, falling from it wouldn't be so serious if there's still a scaffold at the eaves to 'catch' you.

 Phil79 16 Nov 2022
In reply to Postmanpat:

Scaffold cost seems about right.

As others have said get a few comparative quotes.

 Iamgregp 16 Nov 2022
In reply to OCDClimber:

Same.  

We had a slipped slate - was soaking our bedroom ceiling and staining badly every time it rained.  Got a quote from a "roofing firm" which came back at about 1500 quid, all sorts of talk of refelting etc.

Spoke to a builder who had fitted our kitchen and he said he's take a look and let us know if we were being ripped off (he doesn't do roofing), he popped up there on a ladder, moved the slates back, fastened them down and sorted it, no charge.

Moral of the story.  Get someone else to have a look.

In reply to Rob Parsons:

(Practical) HSE guidance here

https://www.hse.gov.uk/work-at-height/ladders/when-how-to-use-ladders-safely.htm

Basically, as always, a question of managing risk. For larger projects the risks rapidly become unjustified. 

In reply to MG:

Worth noting too that while normally domestic clients have no responsibility under CDM, wilfully employing incompetent or reckless contractors could still lead to trouble.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/construction/areyou/domestic-client.htm

 magma 19 Nov 2022
In reply to Rob Parsons:

> I don't think many roofers would erect scaffolding to repair a couple of slipped slates. And, even if they did have scaffolding up, they would still need to use ladders to access the actual slates on the pitched roof itself.

previous repairs to my roof (using bits of lead and glue by the looks of it) didn't need scaffolding. i'll let you all know for latest repair once i've got a few quotes. need a new roof really- worth doing even if i sell soon? (will be reflected in valuation?)

seems window cleaners have moved away from ladders as well..

In reply to Fraser:

Clipping into climbing rope over roof ridge tied to tree etc on other side has worked for me.Can clip ordinary ladder near ridge to work from if need be.

 Wilderbeest 19 Nov 2022
In reply to oldie:

I’ve had my partner belay me from the upstairs bedroom window when I’ve worked off a ladder checking tiles out before.
She was tied in to the upstairs bannister 😀

 David Riley 19 Nov 2022
In reply to Wilderbeest:

Sling round the chimney.  Velux windows are helpful.  Never had a slate crack walking around, which always surprises me.

In reply to David Riley:

Treat some chimneys like loose rock.

Our half of chimney recently rebuilt, neighbour's not. 

Post edited at 16:10

 magma 24 Nov 2022
In reply to Rob Parsons:

> I don't think many roofers would erect scaffolding to repair a couple of slipped slates. And, even if they did have scaffolding up, they would still need to use ladders to access the actual slates on the pitched roof itself.

yeah, have got the local builder (who has repaired my roof before- where the tiles came off to give me an estimate- not going to compain at £150 for what must be at least 15 tiles..

 Lord_ash2000 24 Nov 2022
In reply to Postmanpat:

I had the flashing redone on my conservatory 6 months back, maybe 6-7 meters worth. Cost £1200, it was a bit steep but it was a really awkward place to do it and I needed it done that week. Thankfully he didn't need scaffolding. 


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