UKH

Yesterday, town was more unnerving than in the lockdown. The discipline had slipped and maybe psychologically denial is the default position- afterall we live in experience more than prediction of what will happen.

I was leant over by people whist shopping, often thoughtlessly, masks had been discarded which in the lockdown had been a growing  norm and I was now rare in this habit.  

I felt unsafe and safer in lockdown with less numbers on the ground. Advice is nice but I would now support law for masks in indoor public spaces and a 2 metre compulsion in law. The 2 metres could be phrased in law like " as is best possible" to give room for error.

I now feel insecure in the public spaces.

Anyone else sense this  and believe now is the time for temporary laws or not? Democracy has been based on giving advice a go but it is not registering in large enough numbers.

Interestingly, I have found people to be less concerned about distancing when wearing masks. Maybe just your luck with who you meet?

When we had active cases of Covid in the care home, I considered making a tabard which read "I care for people with Covid". I reckoned that would have been my best way of getting enough space!!

Around our way, I have found shops are still regulating the number of people going in very well, so not finding it a problem really, but again it's probably just luck with time of day and which shops etc.

If it was the law to wear a mask, would people get fined for removing the mask to put a hanky to their mouth to sneeze? If you don't, and sneeze into the mask instead, then you have to walk around with your boggies all over your face. At work, I sneeze in the mask and then immediately change the mask, but we have a plentiful supply of masks. What about if someone starts having an asthma attack, do they get fined for removing the mask then? What about someone having a panic attack? I think making it law becomes complicated. Keeping insisting on 2m distancing and thorough hand washing seems to be the best strategy. 

I guess we're all somewhere on the scale of over-anxious to over-confident.  It can be uncomfortable to be around others who aren't at the same place on the scale as us.  Are you perhaps asking for a law to force everyone to be at the same place on the scale as you?

Tricky times, the government announcement spin is often at odds with 'the science', and media hype it all up. It can be hard to know what is real and pertinent any more, but I'm not convinced making laws based on the confused information is a positive way forward.

Maybe too complicated for you, where I live it's the law (fine €150) and asthma, panic attacks etc are covered by the legislation.

I agree that discipline has slipped. I'd also guess that many people feel safer wearing masks when in fact they protect others and are of minimal value to the wearer. Thus the media need to emphasise that it is only safer for those people if everyone else wears a mask in enclosed spaces.

It would be best if the media promoted the feeling that it is rude and selfish not to wear masks in enclosed spaces where 2m separation may not be possible. Hopefully the risk of not being permitted to travel on public transport without a face covering will avoid too much confrontation and the law will rarely be needed.

Interesting about real and pertinent and the confusion on this scientific point. They know it is respiratory and can be expelled from the mouth over a distance and that has somehow got lost. It seems that certainty on that point is reinforced with the law about wearing masks on buses in London, just introduced- so that confusion is set aside in people's minds but is quite clear. I could  see an extension to public indoor spaces as the logical progression of that and to give us complete clarity.

Exceptions for asthma or panic,  could be incorporated in the language of law.

It is intent that the law would be focused on- the mask is a fairly black and white issue.

Maybe the law enforcing 2 metre could work as regards intent to comply to get over "forgetting".

I got leant over whilst I was wearing a mask which does prove the point above about the psychological feeling a mask gives the chance to ignore the 2 metre ruling. Therefore I think the mask and 2 metre ruling would have to be both put into law together in indoor public spaces. On buses the spaces are already designated.

And are people taught to use them properly? On a high pollen day, I would need 5 or 6 for a supermarket trip! That is a lot of potentially infected masks to carry around and much potential for people getting the protocol wrong and actually spreading infection further. Catch it in a hanky and disinfect your hands after puting the hanky away is much simpler!

In how many indoor spaces is 2m actually not possible?? In a supermarket, just be patient! (If there are no self service tills, I will wear one at the till as those poor people have no choice. But I choose self service where I can).

Where else are people going indoors anyway?? Surely nothing is open?

Hay fever and pollen sensitivity could be also an exception category but majority behavioural compliance  could be achieved  whereas now there is a minority of mask wearing.? 

But what would be the point of making that an exception when sneezing has to be one of the ways droplets could reach the farthest?? All of the things which would be exceptions are the things which expel air with most force! Panic attacks, asthma attacks etc all involve heavy breathing too. So these are all situations where a mask is impractical, but the only real situations where they would serve any real purpose!

For normal breathing, someone needs to be closer than 2m from you for 15 mins to give you enough viral load to infect you. 

We just need to really focus on good distancing behavior, good hygiene and good hanky use!

Offices, workshops, factories, garages and MOT stations, petrol stations, warehouse pickers, some magistrate and Crown courts, car showrooms, furniture stores, hospitals, fire stations, police stations, army barracks, container ships, post offices...

Well most of these are work places, not public places. Work places have their own rules and regulations. I wear a mask at work, but I can't wipe a bum from 2m away! The public ones like car showrooms and furniture shops etc shouldn't be open yet anyway! If the R number is too high to be open without distancing, then they shouldn't be open. The fact that masks are only minimally effective means distancing has to be the priority and no unnecessary indoor spaces open to public.

2m is certainly not enforced in supermarkets near me. In some there are only narrow isles and people squeeze continually past rather than waiting. I often wait a bit but then others usually push past anyway. The supervised "one in one out" policies have been really valuable to prevent overcrowding.

Schools are now opening, we have always had Wilkos and Poundland open, Band Q open at first just for collection, then a "gardening floor", then whole large store for some weeks now. Local small DIY and hardwear shops, recently garden centre. One cafe/delicatessen has been open from near start of lockdown  for takeways and actually serves meals (only one table in use). I live in SW London. 

PS Forgot...queues outside large Halfords for some time now.

So are you suggesting masks should be worn in schools then? Can you imagine the chaos of that and how ineffective that would be?

Actually, turns out few schools in England are actually reopening. London might be different as I believe your R rating is much lower than the rest of the uk, presumably because it hit hard and fast there early on and you also have a younger population than elsewhere. But apparently schools in the north of England are largely still only open for key worker kids. 

The government needs to stop pushing herd immunity and actually listen to their advisors who say they should not be unlocking yet. Maximum effort should be going in to making sure people are following distancing rules rather than pushing masks which give people an excuse not to distance. 

And the DIY, Building stores are open which I went in yesterday necessarily. The worst for none social distancing, no masks and a few careless open mouthed coughs, I have to say, from blokes!!!

Why is it that hardly anybody checks their facts before they post on here? It doesn't take long and stops you looking stupid... 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/car-showrooms-england-re-open-t...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2020/may/20/uk-fu...

Builders merchants have never been required to close.

I'm not suggesting they aren't permitted. I'm suggesting the government shouldn't have permitted it! They shouldn't be open as our R rating is still too high. It should only be essential services

I'm confused. You asked "Where else are people going indoors anyway?? Surely nothing is open?" and I gave you a short, off the top of my head, list.

You've then changed it to exclude work places and now say that even the ones I've given you are wrong because you don't want them to be open.

Why ask if you're just going to argue with the (factual) answer?

Well if you have grounds not to wear a mask you use your community help scheme and don't go to the supermarket. That's simple (and mentioned in the law).

Why carrying 5 infected masks is difficult for you but 5 infected hankies is o.k is hard to understand.

True and I know but I only had necessity to visit yesterday to see how they functioned. Worse than supermarkets, in some cases.  I had to visit 2 to get what I needed. Some people have a greater  reflex cough because of smoking. 

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that masks should be worn in schools.

Personally I think  extra things, including masks, to help prevent renewed increase in infections have to be a good idea as the UK government, and to a slightly lesser extent other parts of the UK, are taking a gamble in their latest lowering of lockdown. For many people I think the advice on distancing is now often being ignored, and will not be possible to to reinforce.

In this situation law is no substitute for leadership.

jk

I suspect London's apparently low R is from a degree of herd immunity building up in the fraction of London society that has been daily mobile and exposed to risk, a significant fraction of that fraction have caught it, the rest have been well isolated from it at home. That changed somewhat last week, we'll see next week what that means as the virus shifts between those social silos into a brand new population, whether this current level of care/carelessness is sufficient to prevent another runaway. The numbers in yesterday's summary don't look too bad yet so fingers crossed, maybe fairly limited restrictions/precautions are sufficient to keep it in check.

Still, we could really do with having a lot less virus at large if we want our summer back and relaxing now, even if it doesn't grow the problem doesn't deliver that.

jk

I know exactly what you mean but I'm not keen on the tendency to ever more legislation regulating our behaviour. When I'm out now I try to remain cognisant that I'm in a slightly hazardous environment, much like when I'm driving. I drive defensively when in close proximity to other vehicles and now react similarly when in close proximity to other people. 

Most people don't mean any harm, whether driving a car or walking through a supermarket. It's just that lots of people are absent minded, ill disciplined or just a bit thick. Unlike when driving, it's fairly easy to politely and cheerfully remind our fellow citizens to back the f*ck off! The more people who adopt this strategy, the less of a problem we'll have. The police have quite enough to deal with as it is without extra legislation in an area where a sensible society should be policing itself.

That approach worked before,but there is now a change. The change is that the" lockdown" word itself set a collective psychology of danger so we compelled ourselves to act carefully. Strangely, the lifting of "lockdown "has removed that collective pyschology  of dangers- it was a scary word - it has now gone.

Secondly, the numbers on the ground on a daily basis is changing. It was a thin population moving around,before, now it is not.

Police energy? interesting, I thought more of the black and white nature of wearing a mask is easy to police. I thought the 2m law would be difficult and needed words for latitude. I thought maybe not bother with this bit but I am convinced the mask and the distance have to be combined because someone pointed out that the mask gives the wrong impression one can do without the distance to suppress the disease and it is simply not true.

I'd agree with your point on the masks, but legally enforceable 2 metre distancing? Can you imagine trying to police it? Can you imagine the number of situations where it would be misused by the vexatious, the criminal and the vindictive?

Particularly if person A gets too close to person B, but then claims it was the other way around and demands person B is arrested.

Unless we all carry around cameras (including sound) front, back and sideways there is no way that anyone can be sure who did what and to whom. It's typical political shenanigans, come up with a nebulous (and unworkable) idea and then expect someone else to make it work - and blame everyone else when it doesn't.

I was thinking about that, how owning several masks and having some way of storing them at home until the bacteria has died off again if present could have to be the approach.

Virus...

I have heard this suggested many times but i reckon it is nonsense and dangerous misinformaion.  We know that particles the size of covid can travel much much further than 2m we also know that you can become infected just by touching something that was in close proximity to an infected person hours or even days before, this tells us you only need a tiny viral load.

If all we have to do to prevent from catching covid 19 is not spend more than 15 minutes  closer than 2m to someone than social distancing should be a breeze and this thing should be over very quickly, sadly this is not the case

I can't understand how long we've resisted masks!

Like most things we seen to be doing things arse first and very late.

Originally I was against masks but I can see how it's not about me, it's about others, once you see it as such I can't see it being an issue really, except for glasses wearers, where is a pain.

Large particles (several microns?) drop due to gravity quickly without travelling far.

Small particles (less than a micron) can drift in air currents longer/further but their volume and viral load are both hundreds of times smaller.

Hence 2m rule chosen as a  compromise between safety and practicality.

That is the official line on it, I can only presume this is informed by scientists who have studied it!

If it spread as easily as you suggest, the R rate would not have reduced with supermarkets being open and all care home and nursing staff would have caught it. I have definitely been exposed to it. I may have had it in early February, but no way of knowing. If I had it, none of my contacts became symptomatic. If I didn't, I did not become symptomatic from my weeks of exposure. So either way, it seems transmission is not THAT easy!

Oh yes, quite right. 

I think I got it in February, but again no proof. I was exposed to a man coughing deeply in a small cafe and I was out of there after about 5 minutes after he started , although he covered his mouth. I was between 1 to 2 metres away at the next table. I became ill that week. You are possibly young, I am not young!!Nor old  but not young..... young immune systems fair better on this one.

We haven't had enough PPE to supply front line health workers. People haven't wanted to detract from supplying people who really need it.

Not that most people who are wearing masks seem to know how to use them...

Of course, improvised face coverings are adequately effective to reduce the spread of disease from an asymtomatic, or pre-symptomatic infected person.

I'm 38, so middle of the road as far is this virus goes I believe. But none of my contacts (big mix of ages) got it from me in Feb, if it was it. At work, big mix of ages giving personal care to people confirmed with it. So rolling people into me, they were breathing into my sleeves etc. One would spit mouthfuls of food back at me every so often. So I have definitely been exposed (PPE in care homes is widely regarded to be insufficient and it definitely got on my uniform which you don't change during the day), as were many others with wide ranging ages and medical backgrounds. So yes, it is clearly a contagious disease, but it doesn't spread quite as easily as some seem to believe. There is a minimum viral load to make you ill and it is widely believed that you need to be in close contact for a reasonable amount of time for that load to be reached.

Have you ever had a rash , a bit itchy, on your arms in any month after Feb  {when you felt was the first big exposure}?  I'm wondering if this is a reaction to a second exposure after developing antibodies from a first big exposure ?

European Parliament about to have legal requirement for mask wearing. Think, for the sake of tourism confidence, we should help this industry { my own!} by following suit now and then people can visit from low R  European countries to regions of UK also low in R. It would help to have similar, recognisable patterns of behaviour when they arrive.

Well I suppose there are some people who´d call visiting the European Parliament building tourism but for the real world it´s irrelevant.

How can people visit for tourism? Tourists need restaurants and hotels and public transport. None of which can open when we still have a crazy high R rating. 

I was amazed at reading an article where someone from a European tourist destination (can't remember which from the top of my head) proposed that they would accept flights from Edinburgh and Aberdeen but not Glasgow as Glasgow had a high R rating still! Because obviously no one from Glasgow could possibly travel to Edinburgh to fly out??

The world has gone mad! 

'The world has gone mad! '

I think that is genuinely true.  Medical 'experts' arguing about 1.5 or 2m social distancing, R numbers to two decimal places, face masks or no face masks...

I this have this image of the scientifically ignorant Hancock attending one of these 23 strong Sage meetings, and hearing shouty contradictory arguments from every participant, none of who won their places by being retiring violets ... Hancock swivelling from one face to the other like a blurred cartoon character at increasing rate, then stumbling out and making a random selection from the assorted suggestions. And then calling it 'following the science'. 

PS Did anyone notice that Johnson magically increased the number of employees involved in Test and Trace from 25,000 to 40,000 at PMQs on Wednesday ... then by Friday the same programme had so dropped from the radar that Hancock never mentioned it.

I wasn't suggesting flights at phase 1 but by phase 3 { Scottish } the tourism business is then activated. Putting in masks now doesn't mean they are removed by phase 3- just that the habit is fully established and probably will continue all winter if there is no vaccine.

I think the bridging flights idea has to take into consideration the origin  of the traveller cause you are right- people will just drive there, maybe from a high R region. And identifying those regions depends on Test and trace!And there may be regions in Europe with no R and regions in Uk with high R which will need incredible identification of traveller origin! Another administrative layer to put in place and computerise. Certainly what I'll be looking at in bookings. There is a huge incentive not to wreck a tourism business with infection cause you would have to shut down and lose money. Caution actually is the better financial policy, I think- well that's how I see it - the tortoise not the hare in the long term.

It's seems some in the government do have a brain when it comes to face covering in public better late than never. 

 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-52927411

I have been back at work for ages now and I'm happy to report that we get tested before we enter the workplace for temperature every morning after sanitising our hands, then we are given a medical face mask ppf1 and 3 pairs of disposable gloves. Everyone must wear the masks at all times at work and screens have been erected on the front and sides of office workers desks so they can take their masks off whilst sitting at their desks.There are numerous sanitising hand gel dispensers put up that you don't need to touch.

So my employer has done a fantastic job in protecting its workers. 

In public which I don't do much atm I noticed considerably more mask wearers during my weekly morrisons shop yesterday though I did come across two old couples who behaved as if there was no social distancing in place at all and one young morrisons female worker who came right up to me even when the flipping loudspeaker was telling people to social distance. On the whole though the vast majority were behaving courteously as far as social distancing goes. 

You can't eat in a restaurant with a mask on!! Nor in a hotel/ B&B breakfast room. If masks are still needed, tourism isn't viable! I work in the tourism industry normally too, and have accepted that it is not viable this year and have found care work for the year. If we don't try to push things too soon and actually get infections right down before we try to unlock then there is a reasonable chance of a tourist season next year. If we keep trying to restart, we will keep spiking infections and have no season next year too. We needed a proper shut down early on, and since that didn't happen, we need to hold off trying to re-open. Sort out the infection rate and then things can restart without the worry.

That's why no dates were set, just phases in Scotland. You have an opinion about the R rating timing. I have none.  It is a judgement based on test and trace as the bedrock information. That is my view. I reserve judgement on that timing but believe this is preparation time. and there are different sectors in the tourism business from self contained to hotels. And I suspect that there will be staggering within a phase depending on numbers that can meet and social distancing that can be provided. 

Well exactly, your post is clear enough, all we need is a government that can relay this to people.

My Mrs. made us all masks about two months ago, she could see the benefit, before I could.

I think these are going to be very rare soon, I can't see any country in their right minds wanting people from the UK coming to there country.

Hi just a wee observation that might help there possibly. In our workplace the howf where workers sit during breaks would normally be too crammed full for social distancing if we all went in there so what they have done is staggered break start and stop times and in between both staggered breaks a cleaner comes in and washes down all surfaces etc. Also instead of 4 seats at a table 3 have been blocked off so that only 1 person can sit at each table. As well as that in the shared loos the cubical next to yours is shut off for social distancing as is the sink next to the one you then use to wash up.

Could be a solution perhaps but then we do get our temp checked every morning and if you don't wear a mask at all time (other than when eating your food or behind a desk barrier) then you will be disciplined so we have more control probably than a restaurant situation perhaps, I dunno,im just trying to help. 

Just heard about infection R rate above 1 in certain parts of UK. If that isn't justification to speed things up, I don't know what is . And speeding up behavioural compliance could be achieved quickly with a temporary  law about face coverings, subject to monthly review. I think people would easily accept that and see the justification with this new R rating issued today. The window  of opportunity to can it is narrowing quickly.

Is just about dead, it died of Cumming's Disease, which might get wiped out be more Covid-19 but I think it's going to be a long road back.

I've just looked at photos of the demonstrators and every one is wearing a mask so anarchy is not there- just wish the people in the shops followed suit a bit more { flamin' 50 year old anarchists!!] and I think they will. So I don't think it is quite your scenario of "anarchy in the UK"- to quote my own cultural era. That ages me!!

And not one ex- punk in Simpsons was wearing a mask {  and I didn't go in to peruse the petunias -I had to go in to their small fish shop to buy fish food cause my fish were gasping}.

I don't know what the situation is like in shops as I haven't been in a shop since the 16th March but when I'm out taking a walk I see the same. People who are clearly not from the same household who get far closer than 2m. Groups of people playing football together; even larger groups having food together.

I think some of this is experience. If you are not in a high risk group and don't know anyone who has had or died with Covid19 then you might well think, "What's the problem?"

There is also an element, I think, of bloody-mindedness  - nobody is going to tell them what to do.

The quick change from the lockdown announced on the 23rd March to the position, in England, of you can go anywhere you want and you can now meet up to 6 people outdoors has encouraged some to think they can be much more relaxed about they do and, as always, some will push any restriction/rule as far as they can.

There is also, for some, the Cummings effect - if one of the alleged architects of the rules can ignore those rules why should anyone else take notice of what the government say.

I think the rules have been relaxed too soon and I hope it doesn't result in another peak in cases and deaths. 

Dave

Well, it's like my fish. One chased all the others about and has been the last fish standing. But "Psycho the Fish" had better watch out. I can't see anything wrong with tetra on toast........

I'm intrigued. How can you tell, just by looking, whether people are from the same household or not?

If you have 5 or 6 persons, all of which appear to be the same age, and of (occasionally) different skin hues, then it is highly unlikely that they are quintets or sextuplets.

True, they could be students who share a house, but considering the number of these occurrences, and the fact that any group of 5 or 6 would have got fed up with being "incarcerated" together by now, then it's a trifle unlikely. (And no, any groups I have seen were not discussing anything educational related to any possible university subjects).

When one person waves to another across a road shouts over, "How are you doing?" and then crosses over to stand and chat closer than 2m, and other similar meetings and greetings in the street, I think I'm fairly sure they aren't from the same household.

Dave

You're right, students are very rare and when they are seen out in public, they only ever discuss academic topics.

Plus, no other adults ever share houses with people they're not related to.

R is only a value of how easily it transmits. 
 

It’s the number of infections present that’s key now. Once R is at or below 1 the disease is regressing.

We know how to keep it regressing, keep 1-2m from people, wash your hands and wear a face covering when you can’t maintain distance. 
 

It is law from 15th June to wear a face covering on public transport everywhere in the country. 
 

I suspect that it would only take an announcement from the government to extend this to all places where you can’t keep the 1-2m distance. Most workplaces will be adopting it. 
 

The odd person not wearing one because they have breathing difficulties is not going to affect the number of infections. Where will they catch it from if the majority of the other people are wearing them?
 

1 in 1,000 people infected, with those infected people mainly self isolating or in hospital. I’d suggest the chances of you meeting someone who is asymptomatic in the street is about 1 in 300,000.

I was in town this week. Few face coverings. 2 metre rule majority attempt but ,with increased numbers of people, people often inadvertently people pass one another within 2 metres. Phase 2 {scotland} next week, apparently. With increased numbers,  more inadvertent close encounters. I'd feel safer if phase 2 was accompanied with law on face coverings in indoor spaces. 

'R is only a value of how easily it transmits. ' It really isn't - it's a measure of how fast it has been spreading in the past. If we all started sneezing in each other's faces today then the R value wouldn't rise today, it would be in a few weeks time - rather too late to do anything about it.

I'm increasingly thinking that the basic messages are getting lost in the noise here. 'Test and trace' - nice to have but it's not working. Vaccine - we might be lucky, but probably not in appropriate timescales. Face masks - marginally, possibly even counter-productive (except in clinical settings.) 

Policy wise, we should be throwing resource (God knows we're squandering enough elsewhere) at at risks groups via primary care and via care homes. As for the rest of us - constant emphasis on hand cleaning, ban on rubber gloves, compulsory hand sanitising before entering any shop or other public enclosed space, and emphasis on use of paper handkerchiefs to capture sneezes and coughs then throw away. (There is no suggestion that there has been any run on paper hankies, which suggests to me that people don't understand how important this is.)

A few days not weeks.

Either way it’s both of those things. If it spreads easily/fast, that’s the same thing isn’t it? It’s modified by our behaviour. 

I suppose I've been concerned at the way it has been bandied about, as though it is a control that the government can turn to 'drive the R rate down.'

The main control that the government has is to persuade us to do sensible things - sanitise our hands before we go shopping, wash them at every opportunity, uses disposable hankies and throw them away after use, and keep a 'reasonable' distance, certainly more in the presence of shielded or elderly than in the case of fit and healthy younger people. 

I read in a newspaper that a German study is proving evidence that wearing face coverings is reducing transmission by 40%.

https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/compulsory-use-face-mas...

Today  is June 15th and the radio in the Highlands said it was still advice to wear masks on transport and in shops.

Today, I walked past a bus stop, fully laden with people sitting close to each other in the bus shelter, not one wearing a mask.

That  must make the bus driver feel terrible. 

It is a town centre bus to suburbs Via the Hospital!!!!! So hospital people  with appointments catch that bus........I know local people who go 17 miles to town on bus and change to that bus in the centre of town because hey are old and can't drive.

Maybe Scottish laws are different? 

Well you can drive it down. R0 is the initial R value determined by normal behaviour in a particular population, and the biology of the disease. R is the modified value, the biology of the disease remains unchanged but change people’s behaviour or alter the population, and R changes. 

IF only the advice and reason for it were entrenched in the public domain...- but my observations are that they haven't hit home that well.

Phase 2 (Scotland) is announced on Thursday.

Like you, I’ve been working (redeployed) in a (Covid positive) care home for the last month. 

Regarding PPE, the things I’ve seen!

Wearing a face mask correctly then returning after a break with it inside out, i.e the front now directly against the mouth (I intervened) -

on another occasion someone exiting an isolated residents room and proceeding to rub their eye with gloved finger behind the safety glasses, ie direct contact to the eye area (I politely pointed this out) 

it’s human nature it seems but it takes just one brief moment to compromise a safety system 

That’s why we talk about managing risk and not eliminating risk. We all manage risk every second of our lives. Occasionally we have accidents, as long as mostly the accidents don’t result in serious outcomes, the species survives. 
 

Someone will come along soon and say there’s no such thing as an accident. There is, how you approach your attitude to accidents is what’s important. 
 

The less incidence of disease there is around and the more people try and keep away from each other. The likelihood of a serious outcome from the odd inevitable accident is decreased. 

Yep, the nurse in our home has a tendency to lower the mask below her nose!! THE NURSE!! Who should be the prime example of excellent infection control!!

Is anyone trying to deny that? That is why I wholeheartedly support the Scottish and Welsh careful approaches to unlocking. Slow and steady to keep infections down

It’s more about the number of cases presently out in the community and whether people with positive tests and symptoms, or who have been in contact with positive cases are isolating. If cases in Wales and Scotland are high then you need to be more cautious.  

As regards England's new direction from next Tuesday, with pubs, cinemas and restaurants opening, what would people expect to be the cautionary added measures factored in for this extensive move? 

Both England and Scotland have mandatory face coverings on transport. That is all as regards law, with advice on 2 metre ruling.

Strange you mention car showrooms.  Most of the ones I've been in are vast spaces with hardly anyone around and that's when things are busy   I would have thought they were one of the few safe indoor spaces.

Al

Lots of touching and sitting in cars. Maybe test drives? 

At the moment.

The point is the incidence is falling all the time and it’s not a case of stopping the spread completely but managing the spread and limiting it when it pops up.

Extra measures would be a working app for public places. I think they were suggesting getting people to sign in to establishments. 
 

We have to recognise that it’s a disease we cannot control without some kind of pay off. We can’t control lots of fatal illnesses, we just manage them.