/ Stashed Bouldering Pad - Bowderstone

Lord_ash2000 04 Jul 2019

I was wondering if anyone knows the whereabouts of an Organic Blubber Pad which was left stashed in the rocks behind the bowderstone a few weeks ago?

It's this one, https://organicclimbing.com/collections/crash-pads/products/blubber-pad  and is in highlighter-bright green. 

If anyone has picked it up, or thought it had been lost or abandoned etc please let me know via here. It's a friends pad they had up there while they were working something hard on the back face. 

I suspect it's probably a tourist thinking they have found a free sleeping mat or something but you never know. 

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Sean_J 04 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

Pretty sure I saw it there on 27th May. I did think that it was a brave individual that would leave such an item unattended in such a busy area, even when I was there a few tourists and their kids were coming across it. Hopefully it'll turn up. Maybe he should have bought one in a camo pattern

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balmybaldwin 04 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

This sounds an awful lot like littering.... is this really acceptable practise to leave equipment lying around for months?

How hard is the problem that they can't be arsed to take their stuff with them when they leave?

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Lord_ash2000 04 Jul 2019
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Well it isn't. Litter is left behind, abandoned. A stashed pad is stored temporarily to be collected later. It's like saying leaving your car parked on the street is littering. 

Anyways, if anyone knows about it, let me know. They went on holiday for two weeks and forgot about it beforehand so it got left longer than planned.

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Jon Read 04 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

I hope they get it back, but leaving kit at crags deliberately isn't really the done thing. 

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Arms Cliff 04 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

>  A stashed pad is stored temporarily to be collected later. It's like saying leaving your car parked on the street is littering. 

Maybe more similar to driving your car up to the Bowderstone and leaving it there?

I kinda thought we had come to some consensus in the bouldering community that stashing pads was Not A Good Thing. I can see some of the justification at crags that are off the beaten track and have a long walk in, but the stone is basically roadside and hugely popular with non climbers. This seems like a misjudgement from the climbers involved.

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Andy Hardy 04 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

Haven't the NT just replaced the steps up to the Bowderstone, which would have involved a number of workers up there with lifting gear etc. Maybe they thought it was fly tipped, and carted it off?

Edit link: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-48825284

Post edited at 13:41
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Lord_ash2000 04 Jul 2019
In reply to Andy Hardy:

> ....which would have involved a number of workers up there with lifting gear etc. Maybe they thought it was fly tipped, and carted it off?

That is a possibility, I know some NT people I may see if any of them picked it up.

To those moaning about the stashing, we regularly cart up about 5 pads up there on a trip, but this additional mat didn't fit in the car along with all the others and was only really useful for the one problem someone was working so it was a bit of pain to bring it. It was also stashed well out of the way under some large rocks around the back, away from the climbing, unsurprisingly, intentionally out of sight, so don't get your knickers in a twist. 

Post edited at 13:46
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Fruit 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

Just because it is convenient for you does it make it the right thing to do?

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Emilio Bachini 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

Even if you and or your friend don’t agree with the ethics of leaving things (climbing gear, tick marks, litter or whatever) at crags, I’ll be interested to see how how quickly your wallets disagree with this practice. I know I certainly can’t afford to replace bouldering mats, let alone Organic ones. 

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Lord_ash2000 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Fruit:

> Just because it is convenient for you does it make it the right thing to do?

It's not something I do, mainly because of the risk factor and the lack of need, but why is so wrong?

I could understand if it became commonplace and there were stacks of pads stuffed all over, making the place look a mess. But this wasn't the case, it was one pad, which (was believed at least) to be well hidden. We don't leave litter or tape and generally remove tickmarks, stashing a pad is not the same thing.

Also, it's worth pointing out that between the one who left the pad, me and the rest of our little group we probably account for about third of the total climbing which happens at that place. It's basically our local training wall. If the place is a mess, we are the ones who'll be most affected because no one spends more time there than we do. Just last night I was talking with a friend and we reckon I alone have probably climbed the classic Picnic Sarcastic (f7A+) 500-600 times over the years and that was conservative. 

So I do feel a certain responsibility for the upkeep of the place and generally, make sure it stays tidy. As for ethics etc, we pretty are the consensus at that place, if a visitor wanted to know what was acceptable there, we are the ones they would ask.

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Jon Read 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

> It's not something I do, mainly because of the risk factor and the lack of need, but why is so wrong?

My argument against doing it is that no matter how well you think something is hidden in a place no-one would go, someone could find it (as has clearly happened here). Then what do they think? Climbers are lazy and don't care about the environment. Littering, no respect... They tell someone that owns the land, bingo, access has gone.

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dunnyg 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Jon Read:

To be fair, the walk in is pretty killer and the pad looks heavy!

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mrphilipoldham 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

Correction: The landowner would be the one to be asked. You have no right over anything. It is certainly not up to you to decide whether leaving a mat temporarily or otherwise is acceptable. The mat was clearly not ‘well hidden’ if someone managed to find and remove it. 

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deacondeacon 05 Jul 2019
In reply to dunnyg:

It's about 15 minute walk!!

Also LordAsh climbing a problem 500 times doesn't make it yours.

Of all the Crags that would be acceptable to stash a pad the Bowderstone is literally the worst. It's really busy with tourists, climbers have a good relationship with the national Trust and its a steady walk in. 

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Lord_ash2000 05 Jul 2019
In reply to deacondeacon:

With regards to the state of the place tourists are by far the main problem with ruining the natural beauty of the area, not climbers. Look at the less left with the new ladder installed

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Jon Read 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

Lordy, what are you on about? You are one of those tourists.

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ianstevens 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

> It's not something I do, mainly because of the risk factor and the lack of need, but why is so wrong?

> I could understand if it became commonplace and there were stacks of pads stuffed all over, making the place look a mess. But this wasn't the case, it was one pad, which (was believed at least) to be well hidden. We don't leave litter or tape and generally remove tickmarks, stashing a pad is not the same thing.

Then what gives you special privilege to leave a pad over all the other plebs?

> Also, it's worth pointing out that between the one who left the pad, me and the rest of our little group we probably account for about third of the total climbing which happens at that place. It's basically our local training wall. If the place is a mess, we are the ones who'll be most affected because no one spends more time there than we do. Just last night I was talking with a friend and we reckon I alone have probably climbed the classic Picnic Sarcastic (f7A+) 500-600 times over the years and that was conservative. 

Ah, because you think you own the place. Have you tried other crags?

> So I do feel a certain responsibility for the upkeep of the place and generally, make sure it stays tidy. As for ethics etc, we pretty are the consensus at that place, if a visitor wanted to know what was acceptable there, we are the ones they would ask.

If you want it to stay tidy, maybe don’t leave shit about the place.

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AMorris 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

> It's not something I do, mainly because of the risk factor and the lack of need, but why is so wrong?

> stashing a pad is not the same thing.

Can't argue with that. Pads are considerably bigger, brightly colored, and far more damaging to any wildlife that happen to eat it, which is a notable problem with pad stashing here in wales.

> I alone have probably climbed the classic Picnic Sarcastic (f7A+) 500-600 times over the years and that was conservative. 

> we pretty are the consensus at that place

It's hard for me to put into words precisely how arrogant you sound when you write this.

If you are looking for reasons why stashing pads is not okay, but wont listen to anyone when they give you those reason, perhaps losing a pad or two will stop you from doing it in the future. If you could stash one under Jerry's roof for me that would be fantastic, I can't afford an organic pad myself.

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munro 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

How many times do I need to have climbed Impropa Opera (f7C) to overrule you? (is that how this works?)

> It's not something I do, mainly because of the risk factor and the lack of need, but why is so wrong?

> I could understand if it became commonplace and there were stacks of pads stuffed all over, making the place look a mess. But this wasn't the case, it was one pad, which (was believed at least) to be well hidden. We don't leave litter or tape and generally remove tickmarks, stashing a pad is not the same thing.

> Also, it's worth pointing out that between the one who left the pad, me and the rest of our little group we probably account for about third of the total climbing which happens at that place. It's basically our local training wall. If the place is a mess, we are the ones who'll be most affected because no one spends more time there than we do. Just last night I was talking with a friend and we reckon I alone have probably climbed the classic Picnic Sarcastic (f7A+) 500-600 times over the years and that was conservative. 

> So I do feel a certain responsibility for the upkeep of the place and generally, make sure it stays tidy. As for ethics etc, we pretty are the consensus at that place, if a visitor wanted to know what was acceptable there, we are the ones they would ask.

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ebdon 05 Jul 2019
Lord_ash2000 05 Jul 2019
In reply to munro:

> How many times do I need to have climbed Impropa Opera (f7C) to overrule you? (is that how this works?)

No, it isn't, (but probably getting on for 100 if you're interested) and no I don't "Own the place", but I would say I'm one of the "locals" and was consulted when the new guide got produced. And we're the go to source of beta for almost everything there. 

I'm just trying to put into some context how often and for how long I've used the place and therefore how much I value the venue and the surrounding area. I'm pretty much part of the furniture there and have been for a number of years. So I've no wish to see the environment damaged there and we do often sort out the mess that has been left, usually from walkers, occasionally by climbers.

But we have to get some sort of perspective here. One person, leaving a pad hidden away for a few weeks is nothing compared to the constant stream of litter from non-climbing tourists, the horrid new massive steel staircase they have just built against it and the 1 tone slab of rock which has been pulled off and dumped at the bottom to make way for it and the flat gravel footpath from the carpark all to accommodate the masses of day trippers who do nothing but look at it. The climbers' impact of some chalk marks and the odd bit of tape is nothing in comparison.

In many ways, the Bowederstone has pretty much been lost to the mass hoards of mainstream tourism. So as much as I like it, if you were going to leave a pad or anything else at a boulder I'd rather it was there than a boulder out in the sticks which your typical Keswick day tripper would never know existed. It's one step removed from an outdoor woody in the middle of Keswick high street to be honest. 

I'd also just like to remind people who may have joined this thread part way in that it isn't my pad, and I didn't leave it there. I'm just asking for a friend as they don't have a UKC account. But I can see that half the numpties on here would probably have destroyed it in some self-righteous crag protector role as they are up on their annual trip to the lakes thinking they are in the depths of the virgin wilderness because they are over 10 mins from the NT carpark and can see some trees.
 

Post edited at 14:47
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AMorris 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

> I would say I'm one of the "locals" and was consulted when the new guide got produced.

> I'm just trying to put into some context how often and for how long I've used the place and therefore how much I value the venue and the surrounding area. I'm pretty much part of the furniture there and have been for a number of years.

So by extension, you and your friends are allowed to dump shit there and others aren't? This is a completely flawed point, whether you see it or not.

>So I've no wish to see the environment damaged there and we do often sort out the mess that has been left, usually from walkers, occasionally by climbers.

> But we have to get some sort of perspective here. One person, leaving a pad hidden away for a few weeks is nothing compared to the constant stream of litter from non-climbing tourists, the horrid new massive steel staircase they have just built against it and the 1 tone slab of rock which has been pulled off and dumped at the bottom to make way for it and the flat gravel footpath from the carpark all to accommodate the masses of day trippers who do nothing but look at it. The climbers' impact of some chalk marks and the odd bit of tape is nothing in comparison.

> In many ways, the Bowederstone has pretty much been lost to the mass hoards of mainstream tourism.

By the sounds of it, you and your group of friends are contributing enthusiastically to the mess too. You cannot on one hand get on your high horse about tourist leaving mess, and on the other hand dump a bulky synthetic eyesore there, which clearly was not as hidden as you seem to be making out, or this thread would not exist.

> ... as they are up on their annual trip to the lakes thinking they are in the depths of the virgin wilderness because they are over 10 mins from the NT carpark and can see some trees.

And yet for some inexplicable reason you and your friends could not be arsed to carry the pad 15 minutes of flat walking to and from the car. Have you stopped to think that the reason it is not "virgin wilderness" is in part because of the people who think that littering ethics do not apply to them? Might be something to think about.

You might have noticed that this thread, and everything you are saying in it, is being universally very poorly received. Either everyone else is wrong and you are the sole arbiter ethics at the Bowderstone, or you are doing something wrong, which is something else to think about.

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Will Hunt 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

Can everyone else posting on this thread please pipe down. This lad has done the crag warm up a lot and if that doesn't make him a god amongst us then I don't know what does.

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Rob Parsons 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

> But we have to get some sort of perspective here. One person, leaving a pad hidden away for a few weeks is nothing compared to the constant stream of litter from non-climbing tourists, the horrid new massive steel staircase they have just built ...

> In many ways, the Bowederstone has pretty much been lost to the mass hoards of mainstream tourism. 

F*cking hell. The 'staircase' and the 'mass hoards of mainstream tourism' are not exactly a recent thing at the Bowderstone - see e.g. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-48825284

Post edited at 15:15
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Will Hunt 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

In particular I love the doublethink of bragging about the amount of traffic the place gets from him and his mates while simultaneously lamenting the frequent visits from other tourists.

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Lord_ash2000 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Will Hunt:

Because it pales into insignificance compared to the numbers of none climbers. As does the impact

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Will Hunt 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

And for what it's worth, I quite like the new ladder. The old wooden one was a behemoth, this one is quite sleek and elegant. Locally produced, design inspired by the stone, smoothed rungs for warming up on. If they're going to have a ladder at all this one seems better. 

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Lord_ash2000 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Rob Parsons:

Exactly, this isn't some pristine bit of wild landscape. I really don't know what the fuss is about. If you don't know there were abouts' of the pad in question there is no need to post.

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Will Hunt 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

Why is your enjoyment of the bowderstone so much more valuable than theirs?

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Jon Read 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

> Exactly, this isn't some pristine bit of wild landscape. I really don't know what the fuss is about. If you don't know there were abouts' of the pad in question there is no need to post.

Some parallel thoughts on pad stashing for you to think about, from the definitive UK bouldering community: https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,28855.0/all.html

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Ron Rees Davies 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

>>.......I can see that half the numpties on here would probably have destroyed it in some self-righteous crag protector role....

I'm struggling to see which 'half' of people on here (numpties or not) agree with your point of view. 

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Lord_ash2000 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Jon Read:

Seems like a pretty varied set of views and plenty of people saying they have done it with the main concern being the possibility of them getting nicked. Unlike on here where it's almost universal disapproval it would seem.

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Lord_ash2000 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Will Hunt:

> Why is your enjoyment of the bowderstone so much more valuable than theirs?

Because it matters a lot more to me than it does them. There is a big difference between the satisfaction your average passer by gets on thier 30 min wonder about  down the path where they go "oh look a big rock" walk up the ladder, walk down, take a photo and carry on before getting a cake at Grange. Compared to someone who's spent months or even years of dedication there in order to climb something they never throught possible for themselves finally realising thier long term goals. It's a massive difference.

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krikoman 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

> As for ethics etc, we pretty are the consensus at that place, if a visitor wanted to know what was acceptable there, we are the ones they would ask.

I'm glad you think so, seems a little conceited from my point of view, but your mate's probably already found out what other people think of stuff left out in the wild for 2 weeks or more.

Post edited at 18:00
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richlan 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

> Because it matters a lot more to me than it does them. There is a big difference between the satisfaction your average passer by gets on thier 30 min wonder about  down the path where they go "oh look a big rock" walk up the ladder, walk down, take a photo and carry on before getting a cake at Grange. Compared to someone who's spent months or even years of dedication there in order to climb something they never throught possible for themselves finally realising thier long term goals. It's a massive difference.

It’s really not a massive difference, it’s all relative, their satisfaction can’t be judged against yours just because it lasts 15 minutes !

i don't boulder but if I did I can honestly say I would look for a time when you and your mates were not there as you sound a bit elitist to me.

Post edited at 17:57
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krikoman 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

The best  non-Troll, troll thread, ever! Bravo

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krikoman 05 Jul 2019
In reply to richlan:

> their satisfaction can’t be judged against yours just because it lasts 15 minutes !

Have you met my wife?

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Presley Whippet 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

> With regards to the state of the place tourists are by far the main problem with ruining the natural beauty of the area, not climbers. Look at the less left with the new ladder installed

Really? 

A couple of weeks ago, I asked that you consider the impact of the permachalk on the majority users of the bowderstone. I repeat this request. 

The bowderstone is a poor place to stash a pad. I understand you had your reasons and that you are disappointed that the pad is no longer there. However, you did choose to leave it in a very busy place so must take responsibility. 

Would you leave you bike unlocked on Cockermouth mainstreet for a few days and expect it still to be there? 

(actually to be fair, in the middle class ghetto, it probably would be) 

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Dave Hewitt 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

> I alone have probably climbed the classic Picnic Sarcastic (f7A+) 500-600 times over the years and that was conservative. 

An interesting notion, as others have said. To date, I've been up Ben Cleuch in the Ochils 1343 times, including at least twice every month for the past 21 years. It means an enormous amount to me and if I go for about a fortnight without visiting, for whatever reason, then I'm likely to start getting grumpy and a bit depressed. I don't however have the slightest belief that I have any more of a claim on the place than anyone else, including some passing tourist who might have spent several hours toiling their way to the top. But given that I've been there so often and so regularly, does that mean I can start leaving stuff on or near the top ready for my next visit, rather than carting it up and down each time?

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DaveHK 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

I'm sure you're a lovely chap in the flesh but your comments on this thread come across as arrogant.

Climbers have no special claim on the landscape.

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keith-ratcliffe 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

'Be careful what you ask for'.

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planetmarshall 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

I don't really have anything useful to contribute. Just wanted to say how much I'm enjoying this thread and hope "I've climbed the Bowderstone 500 times" becomes another classic UKC meme.

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duchessofmalfi 05 Jul 2019

Why don't we do away with the pesky hard ground and just install perma-mats for Ashy?, a few sofas to chill on and a boom box for all those laps might help him as well...

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Will Hunt 05 Jul 2019
In reply to planetmarshall:

Yeah, Ondra's good, but how many times has he done Picnic Sarcastic?

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kevin stephens 05 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

In my day it was beer towels.  No problem carrying them or fitting loads into a small car

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Presley Whippet 05 Jul 2019
In reply to kevin stephens:

Ah yes, I remember it well.

When men were men and ankles were broken. 

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Andy Hardy 06 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

> That is a possibility, I know some NT people I may see if any of them picked it up.

> To those moaning about the stashing, we regularly cart up about 5 pads up there on a trip, but this additional mat didn't fit in the car along with all the others

How did the mat fit in the car on the way there?

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haworthjim 06 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

Whoa!! You're getting a lot of hate on here mate. Hope the mat turns up.

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Deadeye 06 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

> I could understand if it became commonplace and there were stacks of pads stuffed all over, making the place look a mess.

So only you and your mates can do it, it's everypopne else that would make it look a mess?

> Also, it's worth pointing out that between the one who left the pad, me and the rest of our little group we probably account for about third of the total climbing which happens at that place. It's basically our local training wall. If the place is a mess, we are the ones who'll be most affected because no one spends more time there than we do. Just last night I was talking with a friend and we reckon I alone have probably climbed the classic Picnic Sarcastic (f7A+) 500-600 times over the years and that was conservative. 

Hahahahahha "My crag"?! Are you serious?

> So I do feel a certain responsibility for the upkeep of the place and generally, make sure it stays tidy. As for ethics etc, we pretty are the consensus at that place, if a visitor wanted to know what was acceptable there, we are the ones they would ask.

I'm gonna bolt it.  Is that ok sir?

Actually I know who may have picked it up... but I'm not telling them about this thread.

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Lord_ash2000 06 Jul 2019
In reply to Deadeye:

You do all get that my comment about how many times I've been there was to clarify that I'm not just a passing visitor and that I do have a vested interest in how the place is kept because there are few who spend more time there than me and our team. Not that I think it's "my crag" or whatever you've all taken it to mean.  I've said this several times above but those bits don't seem to sink in. And for the last time, it's not my pad, I didn't leave it there, I have done nothing wrong what so ever.

And on the subject of wrongs, the people I know who've read this find it hilarious how overly sensitive and reactionary the UKC masses have been on this trivial issue. Is leaving a pad at a crag a bit longer than planned the best practice you can possibly do? No. Does it warrant any more than a "tut, I probably wouldn't have done that myself but oh well" No. You can downvote me all you like but most people replying on here really are pathetic. God forbid anyone ever chipped a hold or something, your heads might explode.

Other than to report its return (we have a promising lead) I will no longer be following or replying to this thread as it's clearly not serving its purpose.

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krikoman 06 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

> Other than to report its return (we have a promising lead) I will no longer be following or replying to this thread as it's clearly not serving its purpose.

<flounces off> stage right

Come on mate, just because no one thinks leaving shite out in the wild and then expecting it to be there 2 weeks later is acceptable, doesn't mean you have to go and sulk in the dark somewhere.

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Andy Reeve 06 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

> You do all get that my comment about how many times I've been there was to clarify that I'm not just a passing visitor and that I do have a vested interest in how the place is kept because there are few who spend more time there than me and our team. Not that I think it's "my crag" or whatever you've all taken it to mean.  I've said this several times above but those bits don't seem to sink in.

I would be more likely to believe your above comment if you hadn't followed it up with things like: <i>"...the satisfaction your average passer by gets on thier 30 min wonder about  down the path where they go "oh look a big rock" walk up the ladder, walk down, take a photo and carry on before getting a cake at Grange"</i> which certainly makes is sound like you think you are better than other tourists.

> Is leaving a pad at a crag a bit longer than planned the best practice you can possibly do? No. Does it warrant any more than a "tut, I probably wouldn't have done that myself but oh well" No.

I suspect that a gentle 'tut' is all the reaction you would have got if you had shown a little humility.

> And on the subject of wrongs, the people I know who've read this find it hilarious how overly sensitive and reactionary the UKC masses have been on this trivial issue.

All this thread needs now is for you to accuse everyone of being a bunch of snowflakes - go on, please!

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Arms Cliff 06 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

> And on the subject of wrongs, the people I know who've read this find it hilarious how overly sensitive and reactionary the UKC masses have been on this trivial issue. Is leaving a pad at a crag a bit longer than planned the best practice you can possibly do? No. Does it warrant any more than a "tut, I probably wouldn't have done that myself but oh well" No. You can downvote me all you like but most people replying on here really are pathetic. God forbid anyone ever chipped a hold or something, your heads might explode.

All I’ve read in this thread is unanimous agreement (rare on UKC) that the Bowderstone is not the place to be stashing pads. I don’t think anyone is getting particularly worked up about it. 

Glad that your friends are getting their pad back.

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Dave44407 Jul 2019
In reply to Andy Reeve:

I cant believe how pathetic and Nasty towards Each other the climbing community has become !   Anyway that’s my 2p I’m now back off solo up the mountains ,

well 

if that’s ok with the climbing police 

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Andy Reeve 07 Jul 2019
In reply to Dave444:

> In reply to Andy Reeve:

> I cant believe how pathetic and Nasty towards Each other the climbing community has become !  

I'm not sure if you intended to direct your reply to me or to the whole thread. Can you quote one part which is pathetic or nasty on this thread? I'm actually quite a sensitive soul (genuinely), but there's nothing I would consider pathetic or nasty. Misguided - yes; defensive - yes. But that's from poor old Lord_ash2000, who I think has probably got himself stuck feeling like he has to defend the indefensible actions of his group of mates. I doubt he is as uncaring about the place as he has come across in this thread because he has indicated repeatedly that he tries to look after it by litter picking etc.

I'm a BMC access rep in the Peak. I don't know the details of access issues at the Bowderstone. But if I saw anyone stashing a pad at Stanage I would tell them that it was extremely poor practice, and what they hoped to gain (not having to carry it up the hill next time) does not outweigh the risks (annoyance to others including the landowner, making a bad name for climbers, animals eating it was mentioned up-thread [although personally I didn't realise that previously]). I would be astonished if theses issues were not the same at the Bowderstone. Stashing pads is tantamount to leaving litter for the duration that they are left. This is the reason that Lord_ash2000 has been given a robust response by everyone replying to this thread. As I said in my last post, if he had shown some humility from the start then I severely doubt that this thread would be more then 4 posts long.

>Anyway that’s my 2p I’m now back off solo up the mountains

Okay, I hope you do so 500 times otherwise your opinion will not count 

Post edited at 09:54
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AMorris 07 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

> most people replying on here really are pathetic.

And lo, nothing was learnt this day. Next time I am at the bowderstone I will make sure I do a once over of the surrounding area.

Do you do shoes as well?

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kevin stephens 07 Jul 2019
In reply to AMorris:

With Lord Ash2000 digging such a big hole for himself the sit down start is going to be an awful lot harder!

Post edited at 19:01
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krikoman 08 Jul 2019
In reply to kevin stephens:

> With Lord Ash2000 digging such a big hole for himself the sit down start is going to be an awful lot harder!


If only he had some sort of padding he could put underneath him.

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efrance24234 08 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

Not quite gone to plan this has it 🤣

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Lord_ash2000 08 Jul 2019
In reply to efrance24234:

Well maybe not as intended, but I'm happy to report in a roundabout way it seems this thread has after all served its purpose.

All this hate directed at me about this pad has raised so much awareness about it that word spread far and wide enough that the pad has been found!

So, thanks guys. ;-) 

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kevin stephens 09 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

Had the mat been hiding from embarrassment? Glad it worked out well for you

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Blue Straggler 11 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

> All this hate directed at me about this pad 

I have just read the thread, and I’d say that the hate isn’t about the PAD, as such...

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Phil Lyon 11 Jul 2019
In reply to Blue Straggler:

I’ve climbed mango about 20 times now and claim my new garden. 

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Blue Straggler 11 Jul 2019
In reply to Phil Lyon:

> I’ve climbed mango about 20 times now and claim my new garden. 

But have you ever worked HARD on it?
I mean, I've taken the same whipper off Ground Zero / Old Rock and Roller about 8 times, so I think I now own a golf course

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the sheep 11 Jul 2019
In reply to Blue Straggler:

Some wonderfully esoteric Leicestershire references 

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Andy Hardy 11 Jul 2019
In reply to Phil Lyon:

If ever Dave Douglas and John Dunne tried to reduce the frequency of route setting at their centres, I think this thread will make them rethink...

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Donny M 12 Jul 2019

I climbed Morpheus in Avon Gorge last night first time in a few years. 

Seems there must be a few locals who have done it 500+ times as they’re leaving their cams in cracks, so they don’t have to cart them up there the next time! 

Some people. 

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deepsoup 12 Jul 2019
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

> All this hate directed at me

Aw diddums.  There's no hate here, just a bit of mockery.  Actually quite a lot of mockery to be fair, but you did ask for it.

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Blue Straggler 12 Jul 2019
In reply to the sheep:

> Some wonderfully esoteric Leicestershire references 


We are on about the honeypots!
Esoteric would be The Outwoods or Morley "although the rock is not shale you may wish that it was" Quarry!

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the sheep 12 Jul 2019
In reply to Blue Straggler:

> We are on about the honeypots!

Fair point, Mango is one of the nicest routes in the county 

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