UKH

I've noticed that Gulvain is one of the least-frequently-climbed Munros (on this site as on Walk Highlands). Does anyone have any theories as to why this is? In terms of location, it's near Fort William, so hardly remote. Access is easy up an admittedly long but mostly good track, and the ascent itself looks to be straightforward.

Having said that, I've not climbed it myself! I did set out to do it a week ago as part of a running round with its neighbouring Corbett, but a ridiculously late start meant I did the Corbett but not Gulvain.

Dunno, its a great viewpoint and easily bikeable.

First time we did it we had a bonus lift back from the stalker too.

I guess its one of the more remote ones, with a long walk in, but without the iconic status of the Fisherfield or Knoydart hills to draw folk in. Ridge looks nice, but that looks like one long steep grassy slope to get to it from Gleann Fionnlighe.

Reputably a fair few folk bag the trig point but not the very separate actual summit.

Slightly longer walk, only one Munro, hard to make a circular route out of without a bit of imagination? Dunno, it's a nice enough hill, although further west is even better.

I've only been up it the normal way, cycling from Fort William. I intended to have another go from Invermallie a couple of years ago, but the weather wasn't that great so I didn't bother in the end.

At a guess, it may be that whilst it's a pleasant hill, it's surrounded by lots of even better ones.

I don't know the stats, but I suspect you'll see a similar effect for e.g. Buachaille Etive Beag.

Buachaille Etive Beag is actually the 14th most-climbed Munro on this site, so that theory doesn't hold water. 

Ah, OK. Not for the wee Buachaille anyway, then! There may be something else going on there, though - it's further south, an easy day trip from the Central Belt, and arguably the 'easiest' Munro to do to get a Glencoe one bagged. Edit - I've found the list now. the wee Buachaille might be quite popular, but its neighbours Bidean, the Aonach Eagach, and the Buachaille Etive Mor are more so, with BEM having almost twice as many ticks.

It's possibly still at least part of the reason for Gulvain. What does it have to recommend that the hills to the West don't do better? And nearby to the South, Ben Nevis along to the Grey Corries, and the Mamores, pretty much eclipse it.

Buachaille Etive Beag now has a motorway of a path up it. Combine that with a highish start and some pretty good views, and it now has a reputation as one of the best 'easy' Munros to go up if you've just started getting into hillwalking. Perhaps 25 years ago your theory would have applied there as well.

I see so many Munros higher up the list than Gulvain that are harder to access and/or less worth the visit. It is quite an anomaly. I can see the greater appeal of some of its neighbouring mountains (whether shorter approach or more than one Munro to be ticked!) but driving another couple of hours north is surely not "easier" for a central belter.

Regarding access, I think people often make more effort to get to remote hills.

Gulvain's kind of in the middle of the range for most hillgoers - too far for a convenient day trip, but not one of the really far away, remote, interesting ones.

By way of comparison, how about, say, Carn a'Chlamain and Beinn Dearg? (The Blair Atholl one.) Each can only really be climbed on its own, each involves substantially more miles than Gulvain for markedly inferior views. Yet these come in at 188th and 197th respectively. 

I've heard a theory that a significant number of people set out to climb it but fail because they don't realise that there is a higher north summit just off the edge of their 1:500000 map and so only go to the lower south summit.

Gulvain is quite a popular last Munro - as solitary ones tend to be. In the big wodge of data I have for completions (up to the end of 2016), there are 40 first rounds that ended on Gulvain and four repeat rounds. That places it joint-33rd in terms of most popular last Munros (the stats aren't of course complete - they never can be - but the general trends are reliable). By coincidence it's much the same as the two Munros on the aforementioned Wee Buachaille - oddly, at the end-of-2016 cutoff, they each had 41 first-round finishes and one repeat, despite one of them having only been a Munro for just over 20 years.

First known Gulvain finish was by Douglas Barclay, no.71 in the list, on 2 July 1966; another oddity: no.72 in the list also finished there, Donald Hawksworth on 25 June 1967.

As others have said, Gulvain does sometimes get "misclimbed" by people who only have Landranger 40 and don't realise that there's a higher top on the sheet to the north. The lower top being the one with the trig doesn't help matters. It has similarities to Beinn Dorain in this regard (although neither top there has a trig and they're both on the same map). Actually, perhaps the hill it's most like in those terms is Ben Venue where the trig is similarly on the "wrong" top.

Linking back via the Corbett to the west makes a good round and isn't too tricky a connection. I know someone who set off from the north to climb a Graham on that side and only realised something was wrong when they arrived on the top of Gulvain (where they'd been before, as they'd been round all the Munros).

PS - Hope you're keeping well, skog.

Because it translates as hill of sh*t, or filth? 

Heh, I suspected you'd have some stats to share on this Dave!

Yeah, doing grand, thanks - hope you are too.

Early 1980's, a winter day in the CIC day. Someone said to me, lets go down to Fort Bill to collect some supplies. I did wonder why he took his ice axe with him. Down in the valley he revealed his plan to just nip up Gulvain in the afternoon, which we did after he drove as far up the track as possible. There was a note on the windscreen from the stalker when we got back. Did some shopping in Fort Bill, had a beer, and staggered back to the CIC hut.

There is a brief  entry in the CIC hut book if anybody wants the exact date.

Isn't there a story that the sides of Gulvain are so steep that if a stag was shot there the body would slowly fall all the way down into the valley.

John

Obviously, as a result of the ever increasing numbers of people doing the Munros, ones that tend to get left towards the end will also tend to have had fewer ascents overall. 

I really didn't enjoying walking up Gulvain. If I remember correctly it was a hot and relentless slog with a lot of false summits. I think there was a memorial up there because it was someone's favourite hill, which didn't make any sense to me but each to their own.

I'd agree with that. And it looks further on the map than it is in practice due to the long forest track.

That's exactly what I did ! Only realised when I got back to glen Nevis youth hostel and looked at the map on the wall (

John, it's for exactly this sort of reason that I'm surprised Gulvain doesn't get more ascents: you're up near Fort William for the weekend, the weather craps out for your winter climb/rock climb/traverse of the Mamores or Grey Corries and you're looking for a plan B to salvage the day. Gulvain is a perfect fit! 

The final top on Beinn a'Ghlo is similar. And then there's the massive cairn/shelter on Mam Sodhail 50m or so from the completely unmarked true summit. Any other contenders? I'm sure I've come across this phenomenon on other occasions but have forgotten. 

A couple of possibilities. 

Carn a'Chlamain and Beinn Dearg are usually approached from the A9. Easier and shorter drive for people coming from the central belt.

People driving from the central belt, certainly from Glasgow, will pass through Glencoe with all its great hills and will pass the Mamores. Tempting to stop off before reaching Gulvain.

I've done Carn a'Chlamain twice. Was up Beinn Mheadonach, the Corbett next to it, on a lovely day and it seemed a shame not to head over to Carn a'Chlamain, especially with the lovely walk back through Glen Tilt.

For me it's like a lot of the less exciting-looking stand-alone Munros that you pass on the way somewhere more interesting - like Fionn Bheinn, or the east side of Drumochter... or dare I say it Ben Wyvis. Why drive 2/3/4 hours to stop there when Torridon/Ardgour/whatever is only another 30mins? If you don't live locally and don't really get Munro bagging then there's just not enough motivation to spend time on these outliers when much better days are available nearby. 

But ultimately all us non-Gulvain-climbers are probably missing out on something. I'll get round to most of them eventually 

Another good day is to link the two Munros via the Corbett - quite long (took me 9hr no rush when I did it in lovely summer conditions a decade ago) but very pleasant and it's only a slight diversion to the Corbett once you're heading across between the Munros. I did it anticlockwise (ie Chlamain first) from the Old Bridge of Tilt car park but the other way round would work just as well.

Sounds great. I keep meaning to link the Corbett Beinn Bhreac [which I haven't done] with Beinn Dearg. With the recent weather this would be a good time to do it. You've got me thinking.

Yes, dry weather/ground, long daylight - this next spell is the time to do such things. I've not been on Beinn Bhreac either, so might likewise give it a go soon. Have been on the similarly remote Leathad an Taobhain, but not on either of the Gaick pair - is odd what one ends up not having done as the years pass. They're probably my nearest unclimbed Corbetts and even Marilyns - looked good from the Glen Doll Munros last weekend - nice line of sight through to the big gash of the pass.

We had a fine weekend a few years back, walked from Bridge of Tilt, started with Beinn Mheadhonach, then Beinn Dearg, on to Bheinn Bhreac, and then Tarf Hotel for the night. Took 9 hours. The next day we walked back via Carn a'Chlamain, a little over 4 hours, so could have been combined into one long day but it's always good to stay at that bothy.

Great combination of hills. I would have to find a pal to stay with me in Tarf Hotel as I've read stories about it being haunted and I'm a bit of  a fearty about things like that. I've only stayed in 3 bothies on my own and been lucky to meet folk staying in them. - And nice folk at that!

A bit off topic but a neighbour of mine has an interesting story about the Tarf Hotel. He used to meet pals there every December just before Christmas. Some would walk in from Blair Atholl direction and some from Braemar side. One year he and a couple of pals walked in from Blair Atholl carrying coal, food, whisky, etc. As they approached the Tarf Hotel they saw a light at the window. Inside was a fellow sitting shivering, having brought no coal, food, etc. They soon got a fire going and when the rest arrived from Braemar cooked and shared food and drink with the stranger. At first he refused offers of whisky but soon got wired in, so much so that he began swearing, singing sectarian songs, getting aggressive, etc. The company calmed him down and got him into his sleeping bag where he soon fell asleep. In the middle of the night my neighbour woke up to see an empty sleeping bag. He woke a pal and they went outside where they found the fellow lying in the snow a 100 yards or so away from the bothy. They carried him back to the bothy and into his sleeping bag. Next morning when they woke up he was gone but enquiries showed he had made it back to Blair Atholl.

My neighbour tells the story a lot better than that. No pelters please!

... and yet Fionn Bheinn, Meall Chuaich and Ben Wyvis are all climbed much more frequently than poor Gulvain, standing at 148th, 134th and 103rd respectively, vs Gulvain's 273rd place! (Incidentally, I agree with you on the relative lack of merit of all three of those hills you mention - unless for skiing/running purposes!)

Then again, Ben Klibreck is far, far further, yet comes in way above Gulvain at 196th

People driving from the central belt will pass far more in the way of amazing mountains on their way to Klibreck...

The Gulvain mystery remains unsolved!

I’m sure the answer to this question is easily discovered, but humour me - which Munro is the least climbed of all?

jcm

On both this site and Walk Highlands, Lurg Mhor the least, followed by Bidein a'Choire Sheasgaich. Both are fine mountains which, along with Beinn Tharsuinn, make an excellent day out with a pleasant cycle approach. I did them with a pal in Jan 2017 during a typically unwintery spell. Our legs did feel pretty heavy the following day trudging up the Ben under winter packs in hope of a climb though, it must be said! 

Here goes. Ben Hope is popular because it is Munro furthest north. A lot of people do Klibreck on way to or from Hope as it is such a long journey. Of course, I might be talking rubbish.

Probably not misclimbed as often as B. Vorlich (the Argyll/ L. Lomond one) where the not-very-obvious-summit is 200 metres to the North of the (very obvious) trig.

It's not a tecnically difficult walk. Beautiful landscape. Easy access. I didn't realise it was frequented so rarely. There must be much more remote hills that see much less footfall.

I did Gulvain taking in two grahams along the way after getting the train to Locheilside station and had planned to camp on the top. As it was, it as too windy so I camped in Coire a Chaorainn and remember it well: I found a beautiful spot with running water amid rocky outcrops and felt watched over benignly by the mountain. One of my best camps ever. Gulvain is my pal! Took in the corbett on the way back.

I agree that UKC/UKH users are unlikely to be a representative sample of active hillwalkers, and the Munros number-of-ascents list reflects this, with the In Pinn at number 5! Walk Highlands, on the other hand, has a much larger and more diverse group of users (only a fraction of whom post on the forums. I think most people use it for the free OS maps/nice online coloured Munro chart/route planning, whether for short walks in the countryside or for big hill outings. In fact I'm sure many Walk Highlands users have never been near a Munro!). The sheer number of ascents recorded is enormous: 13,389 for Ben Lomond, which has only been logged 458 times on UKC. (12,126 for Ben Nevis at number 2, which has 1,569 UKC/UKH hits.) So while Walk Highlands won't be a perfectly representative sample of active hillwalkers, it's likely to be a lot closer to it than UKC/UKH, or indeed anything else that I can think of - unless anyone knows of a better source? And it's even more likely to be a nearly-representative sample of hillgoers who are focused on Munros.

And speaking of which, 1,164 ascents logged of Lurg Mhor, the least-climbed of all - vs 59 on UKC, where it's also the least-climbed. In spite of the differences between the two user groups, the consistency at the bottom of the Munro lists is striking, the mysterious Gulvain included!

Hi Dave,

The Gaick pair are really scenic places to be in early Spring, with a sub arctic feel, huge cornices and lots of nice waterfalls.

Re Gulvain, I reckon it's just that it looks such a slog from the south and that there are much better hills nearby (Streaps for a start). Pity we can't turn the hill around, as the North side is lovely - I once descended the NE ridge on the way to pick up that Graham top with the longest name and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Thanks for the tip, Iain. When I go back for it it'll be from the north! Can imagine it might work to cycle up Glen Mallie before walking/running up Druim na Giuthsaich, over Mullach Coire nan Geur-oirean then, from bealch 536, head NW to gain the N/NE ridge of Gulvain before descending its ENE ridge back to 536 then back down to the bike. Or something like that. Some sort of water craft would be a handy alternative approach over Loch Arkaig... Would a Therm a Rest work?!

Good point about the Walkhighlands database being much wider than the trip-report posters - I hadn't realised that. Re other possible sites to monitor such things, there's Scottish Hills (which seems to be pretty quiet these days and has a WH overlap anyway) and the Hill Bagging database - a fair few people use that although it's probably at the more hardcore end with lots of logs of Marilyns, Humps and Tumps etc. In fact there's something of a general disapproval of Munros on there because of the non-metric criterion and the "subjective" aspect (although all hill lists are subjective in different ways).

Maybe the point I was trying to make is that I think there are still large numbers of people climbing Munros who don't log what they do on any kind of public database - either they just do the old thing of keeping written logs or ticking off hills in books, or they do put the info into databases or spreadsheets but privately on their own computers. Some won't keep any kind of note at all. Hard to tell how many are still old-fashioned in this way, but in terms of my own anecdotal experience I'm that way inclined myself and most of my regular hill sidekicks don't do any public database kind of thing.

I did it on a lovely day with superb views out west and got some great pics, that funnily worked best in B&W. Can't remember much about the twin summits, but I know about the Ben Dorain one. Seemed like an easy day at the time. I always got the impression that Lurg Mhor is the least climbed Munro, which is difficult to understand as it is a grand day out especially the scramble up the other Munro. and the views are to die for. I've been up it twice!

Not sure keeping your own records your own way vs. non-bespoke online systems (which I don't use either) is old-fashioned but, yep, love it when I visit these sites and they tell me I haven't done this hill or that!

At least one person at the RHSoc end of things has taken to emailing people to tell them they haven't done this or that. As might be imagined, this has led to a few people waving that particular ship goodbye...

Just visited the RHSoc website. Quite amusing! 

Have to confess though that since discovering hill running, I've started getting interested in local Marilyns, Grahams and other Anoraks. It hasn't taken long to come to the conclusion that it's generally a lot easier to run up and down a Munro though, due to the presence of paths on the latter! 

Local smaller Marilyns tend to be very useful for short outings, especially if you're non-linear ie happy to repeat stuff (which fits with the running mentality anyway). But there are certainly some hard-work rough little things around as well, particularly on the more obscure Tumps etc. A friend who has become interested in Tumps recently (in his mid-70s) was up the lower one on Inchcailloch last week and also the thing behind Balmaha car park, and they sounded like much harder work than Inchcailloch main summit and Conic Hill.

Not rubbish

at all, I worked out to in for a lot of my Munros , I tackled the furthest South , North East and West, and working inwards for a good while.

Then I tackled the large  'ball' of Munros that were left in the middle.