UKH

Busy working my way through the Scotish Munro,s and it has suddenly dawned on me that maybe im missing out on some great mountain walks just because they are not on a munro. So here,s my question what would be your top 5 non munro mountains in Scotland not to be missed.

With little thought how about.....

Cobbler

Suilven

Stac Pollaidh

Foinaven

Goat Fell

Stac Pollaidh

Suilven

Quinang

Ben Loyal

Cir Mhor

You've come late to that realisation...

You've been recommended Goat Fell and Cir Mhor but I'd recommend all the hills in the Glen Rosa and Glen Sannox horseshoes. Why go to Araran and just do one of them? They are great mountains.

Take a trip to Arrochar and do The Cobbler and nearby Beinn an Lochain (I'm not sure which is the better...I'd edge towards Beinn an Lochain)

Fuar Tholl.

I don't need the other 4.

Stac Pollaidh and Suilven have just gone on the list have already been up The Cobbler, great accessible mountain.

The best of the non-Munros are a lot better than 99% of the actual Munros. These are among the greatest in Scotland at any height:

Garbh Bheinn

Suilven

The Cobbler

Quinag

Foinaven

Beinn Dearg Mor

Beinn Bhan

Fuar Tholl

Cir Mhor ... it's hard to single out one peak from all of Arran when in totality it's so amazing, but this is the most individual

Ditto on Rum, the whole of the Cuillin make sense viewed as a single entity (and beat most 3000-foot ranges hands down) but if I had to pick one I guess Askival

Honourable (close) runners up include:

Beinn Damh

Beinn Dearg (Torridon)

Ben Aden

The Rois-bheinn group

Ben Lair

...give me one of those over any number of rolling heathery Grampian 3000-foot non-entities

The day we did Suilven we met a guy who'd had the exact same realisation a couple of years previously and was having a lot of fun just walking rather than chasing munros.

Suilven would be top of my list, but the Arran hills aren't far behind.

Quinag also now on the list. Looks like i could end up with a bigger also to do list as the munros i have left.

It's a real struggle to narow it down to 5, but since you asked for that:

Stac Pollaidh

Suilven

Cir Mhor

Garbh Bheinn (Ardgour)

Clach Glas

Streap

Some alternatives that (probably) haven't been mentioned yet:

-Beinn Mhor Coigach

-Beinn Mhor (South Uist)

-Sgurr na Stri

-Beinn Airigh Charr

-Craignaw

And my choices are:

Beinn Bhan

Garbh Bheinn (Ardgour)

Fuar Tholl

Cir Mhor

Suilven

I would rate the first two as the best because they are both truly mighty mountains which defy you to regard them as inferior to any Munro on Skye or Torridon. My favourite is Beinn Bhan because, well, https://www.flickr.com/photos/pjmountainsgallery/4403229797

In no particular order;

Ben Hiant

Streap

Suilven

Rois-Bheinn

Aonach Buidhe

+1 for Arran ridges. The A Chir ridge (q serious solo) to Chir Mor then Goat Fell would be a big day out  - or the whole round including Beinn Nuis and Tarsuinn and there's the Witche's Step ridge too

Top 5 sub-3000ft walks (as opposed to mountains specifically, and not in any order): 

Ben Mor Coigach (circuit from Culnacraig) 

Beinn an Eoin and Baosbheinn 

Rum Cuillin traverse

Quinag 

Glen Sannox round 

And for good measure the rest of my top 30: 

Ben Loyal

Suilven (from Lochinver, including Meall Meadhonach) 

Cul Mor 

Stac Pollaidh (go to both ends) 

Beinn Ghobhlach 

Beinn Dearg (Torridon) 

Beinn Bhan (via A'Choich ridge) 

Ben Aden and Sgurr a' Choire-bheithe

Beinn Bhuidhe (Knoydart)

Streap 

Rois-bheinn trio

Sgurr Ghiubhsachain and Sgorr Craobh a'Chaorainn

Sgurr Dhomhnuill (circuit from Ariundle) 

Sgurr Mhic Eacharna, Beinn Bheag and Garbh Bheinn 

Beinn na Cille, Fuar Bheinn and Creach Bheinn

Cruach Innse and Sgurr Innse

Clisham horseshoe

Uisgneabhal Mor to Stulabhal ridge

Oirebhal and Ulabhal (and a visit to Strone Ulladale)

Sgaoth Aird horseshoe

Belig, Garbh-bheinn and Sgurr nan Each

Beinn na Caillich, Beinn Dearg Mhor and Beinn Dearg Beag

The Storr

Paps of Jura

Pentlands Skyline 

Beinn an Eoin & Baosbheinn.

Rhum Corbetts

I've always liked bus from ferry to Sannox, up Cioch na h-Oighe, round the tops to Goatfell and down to the pub and back to ferry

Coincidence. Just been reading this thread and Winterwatch came on the Beeb. They are in the Cairngorms!

I'd add An Ruadh Stac to my list for that region. The rocky shoulder flanked by high lochans. Beautifully rugged.

I need to get back up there...

As a top five I'd go for the obvious:

Foinaven, Suilven, Stac Pollaidh, Askival and Cir Mhor

Real goodies not mentioned so far:

Eaval, Sgurr Dhonuill (Ardgour), Bidean a' Chabhair, Ben Stack, Sgurr of Eigg, Beinn Dearg Bheag (Fisherfield)

+1 for Cir Mhor via the A'Chir, my first ever serious bit of scrambling.

And again like many have said the Rum ridges with a stay in Dibidl bothy at the end is a cracking walk.

No mention of Clach Glas, an awesome peak to traverse!

Always gets my hackles up that folks view a munro campaign as somehow a waste of time, due to the fact that you aren't always on the 'rockstar' hills. My answer is do them all. Do everything. See your travels as a way of opening your eyes to what other treasures await you once your satisfying ticking is 'compleat'.

Another idea that whilst working through one list or another, that you don't get the wonderful views, experience the situations or both enjoy or endure the conditions. That you are simply ensconced in your Goretex hood with eyes firmly jammed in the guidebook. Preposterous. It's just a starter. A prelude, indeed, a structure if you will - As you drive to a wet old day on Ben Klibreck, you ask yourself what that is on the horizon? I must go and walk that.

'There is no such thing as a dull hill, just dull people' I probably misquote. I remember finding Meall Gaordaidh a toil in wet snow and awful visibility. So the next time did it from Glen Lyon, up Creag Laoghain. What views, What a wilder feel. A different hill.

Of course all the hills folks have listed are wonderful, (and I think there's only a few I haven't had the pleasure of walking), of course Suilven will always feel far more spectacular than one of the Drumochter hills, but what about when they are under snow cover, criss-crossed with myriad mountain hares, challenging your navigation and hardiness? Any less valid? Or just different?

In the course of my work, I am lucky enough to walk and climb all over the world, and just because I have been to the Himalaya, I don't say I will never go back to the Alps! Just because I have climbed in the Alps, it doesn't mean I won't go back to Skye. Just because I have traversed THE ridge, doesn't mean I won't enjoy Ben A'an. And I love Ben Cleugh in the Ochils btw!!!!

Rant over.......got to get ready to go through the boring old Glen Feshie, ascend over the incredibly boring Mullach Clach a'Bhlair, and waste my time going over the Moine Mor to the tedious Monadh Mor. I do hope the views of Glens Einich and Geusachan aren't as insignificant as they usually are.....

My plan  for tomorrow a snowy Ochils day will be very pleasant!

Nope, absolutlely no mention of it at all...

Suliven

Quinag

Marsco

Foinaven

Cir Mhor

Well, I wasn't trying to say only do 'rockstar' hills. Do hills, valleys, rivers, coasts because they're part of the journey. But I wouldn't not do hills just because they're not 3000' feet high which is what this guy had been doing.

I'll second the votes for any hill on Arran and add Beinn an Lochain (Rest and be Thankful)- best done in full Winter cover.  

Thank god someone said it because it does my nut in too! 'we don't see things as they are, we see them as we are'.

Top for me is Sgurr na Stri - stunning mini-mountain with an even better view.

Here are five more quality hills that I don't think have been mentioned yet:

Beinn Resipol

Bidein Druim nan Ramh

Cul Beag

Morven (Caithness)

Conachair (St Kilda)

All the hills I'd mention have been listed already. Good to see Baosbheinn mentioned, one of my favourite hills, with great views and never busy.

I'd only add, IMO, if someone only ever walked up one Scottish hill that hill should be Stac Pollaidh.

The only drawback to it now is because of erosion on the south side the path goes around to the north before going up to the ridge. When we did it many years ago the impact of the view after going up the south side was amazing.

Dave

I'm not signed up to the 'no such thing as a dull hill' though I loved my excursions on the Drumochter hills (east of the A9 dense clag making nav tricky / west of the A9, snow, views and the company of my dog). There are hills that require a lot of assistance from the elements to add interest. Are you then experiencing the hill or the weather? Will the hill 'excite' across a wide spectrum of conditions?

My winter walks in Pollok Park are more than a match for many a rounded grass covered mound that makes it onto the radar simply due to a geological accident (height). I have Scots Pine, moss covered oak and stands of birch, deer, foxes, woodpeckers, finches by the dozen etc. A lot of these things are lacking on Scottish hills (bar the deer). A similar comparison can be made with coastal walks.

Don't overlook Arkle when thinking of Foinaven, a real gem! 

Tinto and the Pentlands (just because they're close by and I can't be arsed driving up to Glencoe anymore).

By my reckoning that gives you at most 3 Munros that can compete with the best Corbetts.

I think someone has to stand up for the Munros!

In my view Arran is good, of course, but it pales by comparison with Skye. And, in particular, even if we ignore the ridge itself, the traverse of Bla Bheinn is massively superior to anything I've done on any Corbett. It's in a different league.

Quinag, say, does not even come close to An Teallach. 

And Beinn Dearg is not as good as the bigger and better Torridon Munros: Liathach, Beinn Alligin and Beinn Eighe.

The other factor is the scale. A Corbett either has a long walk-in or is a short day.

There is nothing in a round of the Corbetts than comes close to the Glen Affic round or the Mamores, or the Grey Corries or Bidean or the Ben Starav group. The list goes on! 

For me, it's the way that the Munros are linked in great mountain circuits that is The critical difference between them and the Corbetts.

Let me be the first to disagree though its all subjective. I loved the Arran circuit so would rank that above the Grey Corries, and most of the Mamores. I also prefer several of the horseshoe corbett and graham combos in the Ardgour region.

My favourites are linking up corbetts with munros. Copious possibilites around Achnashellach and north of the road to the Isles.

My point is that if you line up the best Munros and the best Corbetts, then the Munros are way ahead.

You have to compare like with like. Otherwise, you can say you prefer Kinder Scout to The Cairnwell, say, and conclude the the Derbyshire hills are better than Scotland.

You're comparing the best scrambling Corbetts (Arran) with the Grey Corries (non technical). You have to compare like with like. That's why I paired off Quinag with An Teallach and Torridon against Torridon etc.

In an honest comparison Arran must be compared with Skye.

In any case, I suspect there are few hillwalkers who would genuinely choose the Corbetts over the Munros, if it came to it. There must be some, but not many.  Because, then you are taking Beinn a'Chrulaish over Buachaille Etive Mor etc. And the Pap of Glencoe (if we allow that one) over the Aonach Eagach.

That said, the original point is valid: there are a lot of worthwhile Corbetts.

A bunch of us once made a list of the best 277 (that dates it!) Scottish hills, with something like 90% agreed by everybody. Without digging it out to check (still have a copy somewhere) I think there were around 180/190 Munros, with most of the rest being Corbetts. So about 2/3 of the "best" Scottish hills as Munros? Obviously it's all subjective but that feels about right.

You're talking sense.

I suppose it's obvious, taking a step back - all other things being equal, the most interesting hills are going to tend to be the biggest ones.

Although they're also going to tend to be the most separate, distinct ones - which gives the sub-3000' Marilyns (which include the Corbetts and the Grahams) a slight advantage over the more vaguely-defined Munros, some of which are really just subsidiary tops on a neighbouring, larger Munro.

I suspect my list of best hills in Scotland would be more like 50% of the Munros, plus assorted smaller (or less separate) hills, as there are plenty of great hills which don't make Corbett height or separation, and a few which don't even make Graham (e.g. An Sgurr on Eigg). But I agree with the gist of what you're saying.

A good discussion, with no right or wrong answers.

Agreeing with Pero's theme I (controversially?) think a walk up Fuar Tholl, while very enjoyable, is way overshadowed by continuing past and doing the Munro circuit of Sgurr Ruadh and Beinn Liath Mhor.

I certainly wouldn't ignore the remaining 4 from a top 5 list of non-Munros in favour of just Fuar Tholl!

Just dug out that list, slightly fewer Munros in it than I remembered, 173 (62%) with 67 Corbetts, 19 Grahams and 18 lower hills. To make 282 I would add in another 5 from places that none of us had been to at the time. (Conachair, Griomaval and Tahaval in the Lewis Uig Hills, Maiden Pap & Sgurr an Eilean Ghiubhais in Morar).

It's an excel file so happy to pass it on if anyone's curious.

Possibly, it does rather depend on what it is you're doing and what you're looking for which would guide your personal choice.

If you're seeking solitude, wildlife and the best views of local hills it's very often Corbetts/Grahams that provide them.

I'd add that I don't really perceive much difference in the hills from, say, the height of higher Grahams to the height of lower Munros to be very different in nature. Just arbitrary height bands after all.

In places like the Cairgorms and Mounth it's often Munro Tops that are superb places, out on prominences over deep rifts, while the Munro summits are marooned on plateaux.

Big thumbs up for Griomabhal, although it would be slugging it out with Ceapabhal, Beinn Dubh and Taran Mor....or several more actually.

Perhaps could chuck in Beinn Tarsuinn Chaol in Letterewe.

I agree about the attractions of the tops, but if you're listing "best hills" I think they need to have a certain amount of prominence, and most of those eastern tops don't (as you say, great places though - I remember going out onto those minor tops above Gaick one April and being blown away by the Arctic feel and the size of the cornices). Beinn Tarsuinn Chaol is a cracker, and maybe we should have included it, and Ceapabhal is a strong contender too, but if I was going for another South Harris hill I'd pick Roineabhal over Beinn Dubh (or maybe An Coileach?). Taran Mor is fantastic on the north but a bit of a lump on the other sides, so I wouldn't put it in on those grounds (ditto stuff like Waterstein Head, Sgribis-bheinn, Cuilags). Certainly a place for solitude and a great view though.

It's all just an excuse to blether about hills though anyway.

Did Cul Beag over christmas , its a great hill.

Wow. Did,nt expect such a response to this post. I don,t live in Scotland so have to make quite a journey to get up amongst the mountains, if l did live there i think i would be a little more inclined to scale every thing in sight, as it is the munros are my main target, but think (after a bit of investigation of some of the mentioned corbets) a few trips will now include some of the more dramatic looking corbets. Cheers to all for your suggestions.

Part of the imponderability of this kind of (interesting) discussion is that a lot of people equate "best" hills with the most spectacular ones. That's understandable and is probably as good an objective benchmark as you can get (I'm reminded of Ronald Turnbull's years-ago argument that the Matterhorn wins because it's the most mountain-like mountain). But there are other, more subjective, ways of looking at it - eg kinley's point upthread about wildlife and solitude - often better on less spectacular hills. I'm also reminded of a quote in one of the Adam Watson obits where he said he "felt at home" in the Cairngorms. That kind of thing is near-unquantifiable in terms of overall assessments - eg I feel at home in the Ochils, and often don't want to be anywhere else, but I wouldn't for a minute try to argue that the Ochils are the "best" hills in any objective sense - it's just that I personally really like them and have had many happy and interesting times there. Lots of people will have similar feelings for all sorts of hills or ranges of hills, particularly if they're minded to revisit them a lot rather than doing the linear one-ascent-only thing. I suppose the luckiest people are those such as Iain for whom the most spectacular big craggy stuff - Torridon, the north-west, the Skye Cuillin - is where they've been able to feel "at home" over the years.

Incidentally, girlymonkey, hope you did manage to get out on the Ochils yesterday or today, given that it's been lovely compared with the cold fog that enveloped Stirling and the Hillfoots. I was on Colsnaur this afternoon and got above it at about 150m - the top of the Wallace Monument was sticking out, as was the top of the Longannet chimney. Very pleasant in the snow and the blue skies and the sunshine up top.

Hi Dave,

Wondered when you would chip into this one. Sensible comment, as usual. IIRC the criteria we were using on our list ages ago were rockyness, drama of shape, separation from other hills, having nice ridges and a good view. If I was just going on places I feel at home I'd have a lot more of those little western sea edge summits (Husival Beag, Meall Ceann na Creige, Preshal Mor). And yes I do feel very lucky!

Hope you're well Iain. Your mention of coastal hills makes me think of another non-Munro (not even 1500ft) that crops up on quite a few lists of favourites but which hasn't been mentioned here as far as I'm aware: Ben Tianavaig south of Portree.

Incidentally, on this general theme, is it perhaps the case that less spectacular / more "boring" hills gradually feel better if multiple ascents are made from lots of directions and in all kinds of weather, as one gradually gets to know them and familiarity brings fondness? Whereas the big in-your-face spectacular things such as Liathach or Suilven are much more "instant hits"? You even get the opposite effect sometimes, eg I've head more than one experienced person say words to the effect that they've gone off the Skye Cuillin.

I understand that the Rum Cuillin is a great set of hills. Hope to get there one day!

There are certainly hills which grow on you the more times you do them, but I'm not sure it correlates with the spectacular/"boring" scale. For me at least it depends on intricacy, having corners you don't get into on the first go. So Liathach and Foinaven have got even more attractive the better I've got to know them, but so have Maoile Lunndaidh/Gairich/Craignaw and Broad Cairn/ Mullach Clach a' Bhlair/Bleaklow.

Tianavaig made it our list, by the way. Cracking hill (one of the few with both Golden and Sea Eagles on it for a start).

no such thing as boring hills just wrong approach

youtube.com/watch?v=Dc6sM8mOkGc&

I feel the same way about the Lomond Hills, well, when off the beaten track anyway

Benin Bhan,  Applecross. 

Amazing eastern aspect. Corries and Ridges and Torridon Sandstone. Amazing!

But hey you can do the Corbetts with or after the Munro"s.

????

Bein Dubh at Luss as the view of the Loch Lomond islands is OOTW and Ben Donich at the Rest and be thankful for fine views of Lochgilphead and the Firth of Clyde.