Shackleton copper kettle on Dumyat

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 jonny taylor 21 Dec 2021

I know there are a few Ochils locals on here. Anyone know the story behind the copper tea kettle, stamped “E Shackleton” that has appeared glued to the top of the trig point on Dumyat some time in the last week?

 girlymonkey 21 Dec 2021
In reply to jonny taylor:

I asked the same question on Sunday to my facebook friends. No one had any answers. 

Spout, handle, lid of metal......! (I don't know what's inside, I didn't check!!)

OP jonny taylor 21 Dec 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

> I don't know what's inside, I didn't check!!

Lid seems to be glued on, and spout blocked with the same rubbery glue that attaches it to the trig point.

 girlymonkey 21 Dec 2021
In reply to jonny taylor:

So we will never know what's inside the singiiiiiing kettle?!

In reply to jonny taylor:

Judging by threads here, Dumyat seems to have become a dumping ground for tat...

OP jonny taylor 21 Dec 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

I knew I was missing something there! Clearly my childhood cultural education was inadequate...

 girlymonkey 21 Dec 2021
In reply to jonny taylor:

Ha ha! It was the first thing I thought of when I saw it!! Singing kettle was a big part of my childhood!

 Dave Hewitt 21 Dec 2021
In reply to jonny taylor:

I've not yet seen it (it wasn't there when I was last up Dumyat on 13 December) but I've heard it suggested by someone who has seen it that it might have ashes inside. Must go and have a look soon.

(Btw Ben Vorlich - the eastern one - was fantastic today, brilliant inversion at 900m. Very verglassy in places at mid-height - I switched from the regular N ridge to the easier NW ridge to be on the safe side. No kettle glued to the trig there.)

 65 23 Dec 2021
In reply to jonny taylor:

Did you rub it and if so did a genie appear?

 Dave Hewitt 24 Dec 2021
In reply to 65:

> Did you rub it and if so did a genie appear?

Maybe the ghost of Rennie McOwan would appear.

It's still there - I popped up this afternoon from the Menstrie side. Didn't get a proper look at it, just a glance in passing as it was surrounded by a bunch of folk in Christmas hats (it might become a sort of tourist attraction), plus there was a raw east wind and I was for just keeping moving. I wonder if it's meant to be art?

 Bottom Clinger 25 Dec 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

My sons Xmas pressie to my wife was a massive framed photo taken the day we went to watch them 15 years ago. I’d hand made a mermaids dress, stitching loads of scales I’d made. Took ages. 

Post edited at 13:50
 Dave Hewitt 25 Dec 2021
In reply to jonny taylor:

More info on the kettle - a friend was up Dumyat today and had a good look / took pics. As mentioned upthread it has E Shackleton hammered into it, although in a rather higgledy fashion, eg the N is sideways on. It also has "SAS". Unclear whether the E Shackleton referred to is the famous one, or whether the kettle was ever on a ship in the Antarctic.

(My better half wonders if it's "a Banksy-type thing but with kettles".)

Post edited at 18:31
OP jonny taylor 25 Dec 2021
In reply to Dave Hewitt:

Yes, the shaky form of the stamping almost made me wonder if that made it more likely to be legit. Or very amateur!

 Dave Hewitt 25 Dec 2021
In reply to Dave Hewitt:

> Unclear whether the E Shackleton referred to is the famous one, or whether the kettle was ever on a ship in the Antarctic.

Oh hang on - could SAS be South Atlantic Survey?

 girlymonkey 25 Dec 2021
In reply to Dave Hewitt:

There is a company based in Dollar called SAS adventures. Some sort of publicity?

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 Dave Hewitt 25 Dec 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

> There is a company based in Dollar called SAS adventures. Some sort of publicity?

Possible, but it'd be a very tangential way of doing it plus it looks just like a genuine old kettle. Funnily enough, Swan make a modern electric kettle called the Shackleton, just to confuse things. I more and more think this is a genuine ship's kettle once used by Ernest Shackleton, but quite why it's been glued to the trig on Dumyat is a mystery.

russellcampbell 27 Dec 2021
In reply to jonny taylor:

Put up a post asking about kettle on local Stirling neighbourhood website this morning. Went up Dumyat and kettle was still there about 11.00 am. Have since had a reply on the website saying kettle was taken down  late morning / lunchtime. I'll go up tomorrow morning for a look.

Also received a reply about an SAS member, Henry Worsley, who hero worshipped Shackleton and died trying to emulate him by crossing Antarctica on his own. Clue to the SAS inscription?

 Dave Hewitt 27 Dec 2021
In reply to russellcampbell:

> Put up a post asking about kettle on local Stirling neighbourhood website this morning.

Interesting - good work Russell. Keep us posted once you've had chance to see what's what. I don't think I'll be up there again until into the new year. If it has gone, one wonders where it might end up.

 girlymonkey 27 Dec 2021
In reply to Dave Hewitt:

A friend was up with her kids when the guy removed it. They asked him why and he just said "it just shouldn't be there". So no idea if he knew the origins of it etc or just didn't want it there.

 girlymonkey 27 Dec 2021
In reply to Dave Hewitt:

In fact, that friend is Skog's wife!! She posted on Facebook about it

 skog 27 Dec 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

> In fact, that friend is Skog's wife!!

I'm going to start calling her Skogsfrun now...

(The kids were one of ours, and one of Merlijn's; Merlijn was there too. I'm told the kids chased after the summit-tidier to ask him!)

 Jay Dunlap 27 Dec 2021
In reply to skog:

Hi, just been reading through this thread. 
I have been up Dumyat a few times and noticed the Kettle. It certainly piqued my interest!!!! 
I am now wondering if the ‘Kettle Tidier’ removed it out of good intentions or financial gain?? 🤔🤔🤔

Would be interesting to know the whereabouts  of the kettle at present? 
 

If anyone has any further updates could you please post on here as I’m an ‘oldie’ with limited social media!! Lol! 
 

 Dave Hewitt 27 Dec 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

> A friend was up with her kids when the guy removed it.

Has any light been shed on what if anything was inside the kettle? - the top was glued on, I believe. Hope the tidier, whoever he was, doesn't get any SAS afters - I've always felt that whoever nicked some of the metal plaques from the David Stirling statue was taking something of a risk...

In reply to jonny taylor:

One of my friends posted the kettle recently. Was wondering what that was about 

In reply to Jay Dunlap:

> I am now wondering if the ‘Kettle Tidier’ removed it out of good intentions 

Sounds like removing litter to me.

 kwoods 28 Dec 2021
In reply to captain paranoia:

> > I am now wondering if the ‘Kettle Tidier’ removed it out of good intentions 

> Sounds like removing litter to me.

Storm in a teapot.

Would agree with you.

 skog 28 Dec 2021
In reply to captain paranoia:

> Sounds like removing litter to me.

Yeah, I'm in favour of people removing things from summits, and have cleared up a few myself (quietly - publicity is asking for upset). The more memorials and decorations that are there, the more that get added, and it can snowball badly until the place is ruined.

I fear Dumyat is already a bit past saving, though; it may be best left as a sacrificial one, in the hope that stops people leaving stuff on more remote tops.

https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2931203

https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/4296202

In reply to Jay Dunlap:

I think it was someone genuinely 'tidying up', stopping the place getting more cluttered. I'm not sure it'll make much difference there, but fair play to them for trying!

In reply to russellcampbell:

I believe he was also related to Frank Worsley, captain of Shackleton's endurance. It's not hard to imagine how that could motivate you to want to get out there if you're even the slightest bit inclined. 

russellcampbell 28 Dec 2021
In reply to sko

> I fear Dumyat is already a bit past saving, though; it may be best left as a sacrificial one, in the hope that stops people leaving stuff on more remote tops.

You may be right but Dumyat has a special place in my heart, despite all the clutter.

Being pedantic, the link has a couple of mistakes. Dumyat is 419m not 418. And the memorial is actually south of the summit. The high point is not the cairn but a rock about 20m or so north of the memorial.

As to the kettle removal, whoever did it made a good job of it. Was up having a look this morning. What a great day to be out and about.

 wercat 28 Dec 2021
In reply to Jay Dunlap:

I think the kettle may turn up in Mornington Crescent

 Dave Hewitt 28 Dec 2021
In reply to russellcampbell:

> The high point is not the cairn but a rock about 20m or so north of the memorial.

I often wonder what proportion of people going up Dumyat go to the actual top - feels like less than 1%. Mind you, there could be a big pointy rock hidden inside the big cairn and overtopping the outcrop, not that I'm suggesting that anyone dismantles the cairn to have a look (as various of the more zealous/obsessive hill-list people seem to be doing these days).

> What a great day to be out and about.

Yes, it was a lovely day. I was further along on the usual haunts, Ever-Cleuch-AGH-Whum-Law, very pleasant conditions especially once the breeze dropped. Lunch at the AGH crag in the sun was nice. Great views to the N and NE where Lawers and the Ghlo/Tilt hills all looked great with sun/snow.

 skog 28 Dec 2021
In reply to Dave Hewitt:

> I often wonder what proportion of people going up Dumyat go to the actual top

Far higher than for Conic Hill, I'd wager...

 Dave Hewitt 28 Dec 2021
In reply to skog:

> Far higher than for Conic Hill, I'd wager...

Good point. And a friend who goes up Helvellyn a lot says it's striking how few people go to the top there, even though there's a cairn and a good view.

 girlymonkey 28 Dec 2021
In reply to Dave Hewitt:

> I often wonder what proportion of people going up Dumyat go to the actual top - feels like less than 1%. 

Do you think so? That's not my impression, but it's hard to tell. 

We quite often canicross the "lower loop", so from the main car park, start on the main path and then take the grassy right path which branches off very soon. Follow that along towards the top of Yellowcraig woods and then turn up the steep bit to the main path. We then go down the main path to the car park (this is part of a bigger loop around the reservoir etc). We do this because the top part is terrifying to descend in canicross!

I would say we feel like the exception doing this. 

I find the lack of traffic on the North path amazing. We had that track to ourselves on Christmas morning, and the main track was heaving with the predictable carnage at the car park. 

 girlymonkey 28 Dec 2021
In reply to skog:

I kind of felt the kettle's presence was neither here nor there. As you say, it's far from natural up there. 

I am still intrigued as to why it was there though! Who put it there, how did they come to have it (if it is indeed genuine), and why Dumyat?

 Dave Hewitt 28 Dec 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

> Do you think so? That's not my impression, but it's hard to tell. 

Impossible to really tell of course, but I reckon at least 75% of all ascents are made up/down the main path without deviation, quite possibly 80% - the proportion seems to have increased since the main path was done up. Hardly any of those people take the direct finish up the little nose, so they all arrive at the trig/cairn end of the summit ridge - and hardly ever stray along it. If coming from the north/Lossburn side, the summit outcrop is naturally in play (although even then most people seem to skirt up by a few yards), but with the Menstrie route again it tends to be just trig/cairn for most people. Russell would have a better feel for this than I do, given that he's up there much more often. Ditto Andrea Priestley (almost certainly 5000+ ascents) but I don't think she's on here.

Do you use the "parallel path" much? The one that runs parallel to and north of the main path? I quite often go down that, having come up from Lossburn. Not sure when I last went up the main path from the start (ie not just joining it at the Yellowcraig/race junction); suspect it was a day in November 2010 when I'd been up from Menstrie in the morning and contrived to lose a hat, so went back at night by the standard route to (unsuccessfully) look for it!

russellcampbell 28 Dec 2021
In reply to skog:

> Far higher than for Conic Hill, I'd wager...

I would agree. Often see people standing around Dumyat "true" high point, especially on a nice day and summit area is busy. I would argue that height difference is so little that reaching cairn counts as a bag. It is only a few seconds walk from the "true" summit and if you are standing at the cairn most of your body is above the high point, The walk between the two points is almost flat. 

Conic Hill is a different (copper) kettle of fish. High point must be about 5 minutes walk from the point most people seem to think is the top and there is a fair dip between the two points.  Must confess to  failing to reach "true" summit first time I was up Conic Hill (1980) and taking about 30 years to rectify this. Have been up several times since and have never seen anyone go onto the high point.There are quite a few YouTube videos of people going up Conic Hill,. None of the people in the videos I've watched go on to the high point.

 Dave Hewitt 29 Dec 2021
In reply to russellcampbell:

> I would agree. Often see people standing around Dumyat "true" high point, especially on a nice day and summit area is busy.

That's interesting - I habitually go to the outcrop and almost always seem to have it to myself.

> I would argue that height difference is so little that reaching cairn counts as a bag

Absolutely - and similarly with any number of instances of this kind of thing elsewhere. Occasionally one sees people obsessed with finding the highest tussock on some summit and they're wandering around as if they've dropped money.

The Ochils seem full of hills where the actual summit isn't the one lots of people go to - the Law (loads of folk don't cross the fence at the top), Andrew Gannel (north end vs crag), and King's Seat - that's quite a marked difference in height and three or four minutes of a walk, but no end of folk go no further than the big cairn if coming from the Dollar side.

 Fat Bumbly2 29 Dec 2021
In reply to skog:Beinn Achaladair is probably relatively unvisited. The snow trails on one visit told a very interesting tale. That big cairn is magnetic.

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 Jay Dunlap 05 Jan 2022
In reply to Jay Dunlap:

Managed a donder up Dumyat today - first time since removal of ‘Kettlegate’. 
Came home to find Ernest Shackleton featuring on Reporting Scotland, got me thinking again - was the Kettle on the trig point genuine? 
Mmm suppose we will never know! 

 

 Dave Hewitt 05 Jan 2022
In reply to Jay Dunlap:

> Came home to find Ernest Shackleton featuring on Reporting Scotland, got me thinking again - was the Kettle on the trig point genuine? 

I saw the news feature too - today being the centenary of his death does tend to suggest it might have been a real Shackleton kettle put there to somehow mark the occasion - but why Dumyat?

I've heard from a friend who happened to be there on the day after Boxing Day when the chap removed it. This required a chisel and other tools. Seemingly as well as being glued to the trig the kettle was also filled with a white adhesive and the whole thing appeared quite heavy to be carted downhill. Current whereabouts unknown.


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