more than a day

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 sheffieldchris 25 Jan 2023

Of all the people who go recreational walking in the outdoors what would you say the percentage is of those who go out for multi day hikes, where they have to carry all their camping equipment.

This could be for a Saturday night on a weekend walk.

I live in Sheffield so see the Peak district a lot and there I would say less then 5% stay overnight and of those a good few are going for a wild camp experience not as part of a longer walk.

What do you guys see and if the numbers are so low what is preventing people from doing it.

OK I know a few people will be saying the less the better.

 profitofdoom 25 Jan 2023
In reply to sheffieldchris:

> Of all the people who go recreational walking in the outdoors what would you say the percentage is of those who go out for multi day hikes... 

The people I know (and myself) do not want to carry a load of stuff / that much stuff i.e. everything on a walk unless they have to (e.g. in Patagonia, the Himalayas). Pretty heavy and therefore spoiling the hike to some extent. They want to camp somewhere and do multiple hikes around there, or stay in a hut, or some in a B&B. Just my experience and what I see and hear

2
 Kalna_kaza 25 Jan 2023
In reply to sheffieldchris:

> I live in Sheffield so see the Peak district a lot and there I would say less then 5% stay overnight and of those a good few are going for a wild camp experience not as part of a longer walk.

Depends where you are. 

I think 5% is a massive over estimate for most England and Wales locations. Out of the hundreds (1000s?) going up Catbells, Helvellyn, Scafell Pike on a nice summer's day I reckon only a tiny percentage are staying overnight, even less so as part of a longer walk.

The bulk of multiday hikers are going to be on a recognised trail of some sort. Even popular ones like Hadrian's Wall, Coast to coast and the Pennine way (in that order) probably still have relatively few people compared to the bulk of day walkers.

Scotland is a bit different.

Whenever I have stayed in Tyndrum I am normally in a minority of people there to do the hills rather than the West Highland Way.

Aside from the honey pots like Ben Nevis and near central belt areas the proportion of campers will be much higher than England because there are fewer walkers, more remote hills which lend themselves to overnight stays. 

Some of the more remote sections of the Cape Wrath trail probably have the highest ratio of campers Vs day walkers. 

In a few isolated examples bothies might skew the numbers.

> What do you guys see and if the numbers are so low what is preventing people from doing it.

You have to be really into back packing to afford lightweight quality kit so most people aren't going to haul heavy gear up a hill for somewhere they can comfortably visit in a few hours.

In reply to profitofdoom:

Thanks for replying, I am looking into what barriers there are for people to do more multi day hiking.

Or the methods they apply to do it, like you say staying in huts or B&B's

 a crap climber 25 Jan 2023
In reply to sheffieldchris:

Getting into a small lightweight tent after walking all day in the pouring rain, cooking and sleeping, then putting wet clothes back on, packing up all your wet gear and getting back out in the pouring rain is something of an acquired taste.

Or course there are rare occasions when it's not pouring with rain.

1
 artif 25 Jan 2023
In reply to sheffieldchris:

You only have to take a look at the "minimum" kit lists all over the web, without which you will die!!!!!! The cost alone is enough to put any potentials off 

For an overnighter in good weather you really don't need much, drink, food (cold snacks) and a sleeping bag/mat, maybe a shelter bivvy /tarp. As the weather etc gets more challenging you may need more

 afx22 25 Jan 2023
In reply to sheffieldchris:

Barriers for me would be;

  • I'm not allowed to wild camp in most of the areas I might walk.
  • I'd need to buy and store way more kit (smaller tent, lighter sleeping bag, larger rucksack etc)
  • If I walk for 6 or 8 hours a day, what would I do for the rest of the day?
  • If doing more than day hikes, then I'd want to travel from A to B and not in a big loop.  This would mean more complex logistics of how I might get back to my car.

I have mulled over getting into multi-day hiking but it only appeals if I was in somewhere like the Alps.

In this country, I prefer a campsite, with my cozy tent, huge mat and sleeping back, and access to showers.  I can then boulder, hike, scramble, run, wander round the shops or do whatever.

edit was a typo

Post edited at 13:01
In reply to sheffieldchris:

Just done two days on the Pennine Way from Edale. Met no other through hikers. In fact met only two other people on the trail north of the Snake. One of those was a Peak Park Warden.

 deacondeacon 25 Jan 2023
In reply to sheffieldchris:

Let's be honest, most people in The Peak will be close enough to go home for the night then go for another walk the next day. My daughter and I will often go camping in The Peak but its never been to carry out a multi day walk.

 Derry 25 Jan 2023
In reply to sheffieldchris:

> Thanks for replying, I am looking into what barriers there are for people to do more multi day hiking.

> Or the methods they apply to do it, like you say staying in huts or B&B's

I grew up in New Zealand, and multi-day hikes were the norm (for me). I rarely did day walks as I found it a missed opportunity to spend a night camping or in a mountain hut. However, when out hiking ('tramping' in kiwi-talk) you'd quite likely only see a few other people for the whole trip which was one of the main appeals as well. You just can't do that in the UK (apart from Scotland) where you don't stumble across trails of ramblers (no offence) DofE groups (no offence) etc, or road or some sign of civilization within a day's walk. Thus I would say the main barrier is lack of true 'wilderness'. There's also the fact the most parts of the UK wild camping is illegal (as we've all read about with the recent Dartmoor saga) and thus you are certainly limited in where you can go. I've taken my kids wild camping along the coastline, but I'm always very conscious of being super discreet and thus it isn't the easiest option for a night away.

 Lankyman 25 Jan 2023
In reply to Derry:

I think you're over-stating the 'lack of true wilderness' and 'illegal' side to UK non-Scottish backpacking? I've done loads in England (mainly the Lakes but also the Dales and other upland areas). Never had an issue with other campers or outraged landowners as I am always discreet and careful to operate below the radar. I've also done lots of long tramps in NZ but used the fantastic hut system pretty much every time as it was just much more convenient.

 ScraggyGoat 25 Jan 2023
In reply to sheffieldchris:

Most people don’t need to backpack to enjoy the hills.  All the hills in England and Wales can be done in logical days walks, many of which are very fine. If you do backpack you have to carry extra kit which may preclude, or reduce the enjoyment of going over the tops, and if doing a linear route you have to plan transport to and from the start. Plus as mentioned before light kit while very nice is expensive.

In Scotland there are still only a handful of mountains that may require back packing. Living in Scotland many people do backpack, to increase thier time and flexibility on the hill, but it’s still a minority.  Also in Scotland it can make more sense to walk up  glen set up camp the night before often in the dark and do the hills from that base without the kit the following days,  particularly if you are out regularly and want to reduce accommodation costs.

It’s not uncommon for folks to do outings in a weekend that people further south would regard as a highlight of a weeks holiday.

1
 redscotti 25 Jan 2023
In reply to sheffieldchris:

IMHO, most people in the UK use walking/cycling for recreation rather than as a mode of travel through the land. We've been a mainly urbanised, centralised society for some time now and are heavily invested in cars/vans. People perhaps prefer to load up the car with comfortable camping kit or convert a van and drive to "wild" places to camp/layup and do day activities from that base.

(Perhaps that's also why we regard nature as something separate from ourselves.. But that's a whole other discussion 😁)

 LastBoyScout 25 Jan 2023
In reply to sheffieldchris:

It's been many years since I've done any overnight backpacking with camping gear - and then only really with Scouts/DofE/School Outward Bound week. I do occasionally see such groups out (even locally to me, which is a long way from the hills), but it's been a looong time since I've seen any adults looking like they're doing it.

There's possibly a number that are flying under your radar - if you have access to decent, lightweight kit and/or bivvy/bothy, you could get all you need in a small-ish day sack. Factor in getting a meal at a pub/takeaway in the evening and you can pare it down further.

You'll probably still find a percentage of people that are youth hostelling (or even B&B-ing), as that means carrying even less kit.

I assume you're ignoring events like the OMM, as being in a different category?

Off on a tangent, but there's probably an increasing number of people taking up bike packing.

In reply to LastBoyScout:

thanks for the reply,

yes things like the OMM and others are events in themselves that while you do not have to be competitive, many are and others are hoping to do things more for the enjoyment than placing while in a more structured setting.

Having walked the Pennine way with a small 30lt pack and like you said eating at cafes and pubs on the way I really did not need much.

 Pedro50 25 Jan 2023
In reply to sheffieldchris:

I've never gone for a walk in order to wild camp, however I've done many multi day walks which required camping; JMT, GR20, C2C, Pennine Way etc. 

In reply to sheffieldchris:

Significantly less than 1%, I would estimate. I frequently wild camp on the Lakeland Fells, and very rarely see other tents unless they are in one of the obvious spots such as Styhead or Angle Tarn. Compare that with the thousands swarming over the fells at weekends - even this last weekend, we met dozens on Dow Crag, despite the dismal weather.

As to what is preventing people from doing it? 

A lot of people that I chat with on forums and have met on the hills just don't like the idea of 'roughing it', especially when it comes to the lack of a toilet. It is not for everyone.

Others have posted that they don't like to carry a heavy pack, which is a fair point.

Some women have also said that they wouldn't feel safe camping out on the hills alone.

The cost of the gear may be a barrier to some, although it is possible to wild camp on a tight budget (Aldi were selling an adequate alloy poled 1 man tunnel tent for £30 recently - fine for 3 season use).

And I think for many aspirant wild campers, it can seem a little daunting. I'm not just talking about the negative press that wild camping often gets south of the border, although this must be a factor for some - spending a night on the hills itself can be daunting if you haven't done it before, especially if alone. But for me, heading off into the hills with a tent in my pack represents freedom, the full mountain experience.

Post edited at 17:40
 Spready 25 Jan 2023
In reply to sheffieldchris:

I will often have a bivvy out, or the tent if with another, because we are splitting a day route into two. One afternoon/evening and then the next morning. 
A regular is the N Ridge of Tryfan in an evening, bivvy down on the South Ridge by the top of the Heather Terrace or at the Bwlch, and then do the Bristley in the morning... 
Quiet, no crowds and if you're lucky get an inversion!  
I split many day routes like this... 

My usual pastime now on normal days is looking for good flat spots... out of the wind! ha
My daughter recently bought a second-hand Gore tex bivi from here and after a wash and re-proof.. its as good as new... the kit is out there and doesn't have to be super new and expensive. 
My mtn stove is from Amazon.. and its great.. although I do have a back up lighter because I don't trust the little auto starter thing! 

As is the way in the mountain business... the biggest hurdle is probably finding other people to go with at the start, to build up the way of doing things, whats needed, and what works.. etc

In reply to a crap climber:

> Or course there are rare occasions when it's not pouring with rain.

And that's when the midges come out...

 Lankyman 25 Jan 2023
In reply to captain paranoia:

> > Or course there are rare occasions when it's not pouring with rain.

> And that's when the midges come out...

Don't forget the ticks and the clegs!

 J72 25 Jan 2023
In reply to sheffieldchris:

It’s probably a low (maybe <5%?) number vs total number of people who, for instance, are quite committed to hill walking in Scotland.

Barriers for me are usually having undertaken a recent trip and remembering how bad the shoulders and back got.  This barrier is removed fairly quickly as I start to think it’s a good idea again and forget the suffering….

In seriousness there are two barriers I think (maybe 3). 
 

1) desire/preference - not really a barrier but a lot of people don’t want to be stuck out in a tiny tent in the rain and wind over night and eating dehydrated meals.  That’s fair enough I think! 
 

2) kit that is light is expensive and the cost of entry is (arguably, if you don’t want to carry a lot of weight) relatively high.  This can be mitigated (eg setting up a ‘basecamp’ then covering a number of routes from there returning to the tent to sleep but that requires a bit of knowledge and planning that is maybe off putting?

3) confidence and risk perception - I know a lot of people who aren’t comfortable hillwalking solo, even for a day trip, so suspect the number who are confident staying out all night in remote locations particularly with the UK’s (and Scotland’s!) variable climate is low - this I suppose could be overcome but suspect those who are really keen just ‘go for it’ or seek advice/find company 

 hokkyokusei 25 Jan 2023
In reply to sheffieldchris:

<1%

 tehmarks 25 Jan 2023
In reply to sheffieldchris:

I'm personally really into walking as a (slow) method of transport and in doing things that go from A-to-B/feel like they have a point to them, but I suspect I'm in a very small minority. The people who are attracted to hillwalking to facilitate an A-to-B journey is always going to be a very small subset of the total number of people who enjoy being in the hills for all sorts of reasons. Equipment requirements, enthusiasm for suffering, convenience, pack weight dissatisfaction, etc. Most people are going to be very content doing an exercising circular walk with a relatively light pack, to finish in their chosen pub or B&B for a substantial hot meal and the ability to dry their boots.

 Derry 25 Jan 2023
In reply to J72:

> It’s probably a low (maybe <5%?) number vs total number of people who, for instance, are quite committed to hill walking in Scotland.

> Barriers for me are usually having undertaken a recent trip and remembering how bad the shoulders and back got.  This barrier is removed fairly quickly as I start to think it’s a good idea again and forget the suffering….

> In seriousness there are two barriers I think (maybe 3). 

>  

> 1) desire/preference - not really a barrier but a lot of people don’t want to be stuck out in a tiny tent in the rain and wind over night and eating dehydrated meals.  That’s fair enough I think! 

Here I disagree. For me, (ok maybe I'm not the norm) but being stuck in a tent battling the elements is what wild camping is all about. Sure I like the easy days where the weather is good, and anyone who wants to go for a walk can plan for good weather if they check out the forecast

> 2) kit that is light is expensive and the cost of entry is (arguably, if you don’t want to carry a lot of weight) relatively high.  This can be mitigated (eg setting up a ‘basecamp’ then covering a number of routes from there returning to the tent to sleep but that requires a bit of knowledge and planning that is maybe off putting?

Disagree again sorry. Most hill walkers have generally got pretty decent kit already. Adding in a small tent/bivvy bag or whatever isn't that costly. I picked up a single person one for £60 that's light, quick to erect and fits me, my bag and room to cook in the vestibule. I don't think anyone (anyone I know of anyway) would set up a basecamp to walk from and return to.

> 3) confidence and risk perception - I know a lot of people who aren’t comfortable hillwalking solo, even for a day trip, so suspect the number who are confident staying out all night in remote locations particularly with the UK’s (and Scotland’s!) variable climate is low - this I suppose could be overcome but suspect those who are really keen just ‘go for it’ or seek advice/find company 

This I completely agree with. The best days out are with friends, especially setting up camp at the end of a long day and chatting whilst cooking up some good scran. But if your friends aren't into hiking with loads of kit (blame those looooong DofE kit-lists with unnecessary cr*p)  it may be hard to convince them ow fun it can be.

As a side topic, I remember someone bringing up the point of DofE putting more people off hiking/outdoors than it actually encourages. Not sure if I agree with it 100% but I think there would be some who fall into that category of long days, big packs and getting lost. I loved DofE, but again, coming from NZ my gold exped was hiking 5 glorious days around Mt Ngaruhoe (Mt Doom from LOtR).

Post edited at 20:03
 Robert Durran 25 Jan 2023
In reply to sheffieldchris:

I've done quite a bit of "inverse" hillwalking in the last few years, originally motivated by photography, but it actually makes a lot of sense; go up a hill in the afternoon, camp or bivvy, then down in the morning, have a good feed, drive somewhere if necessary, then up another hill in the afternoon etc. This gets round the issues of roadside camping/the cost of campsites and usually avoids midgy evenings and mornings. And, of course, what is better than a sunrise and sunset on top of a mountain? Just going up a hill in the morning then down in the afternoon now feels like dull short change to me.

But then walking and camping in the hills has just been a normal (though essential) part of life for me since childhood, long before the "wild" prefix made it sound like any sort of big deal.

A revealing thread!

Post edited at 21:32
 J72 25 Jan 2023
In reply to Derry:

I suppose the budget matches what people want to do - if you pick your days you can get away with cheap and light gear (eg. Sleeping bag) but I’ve been caught out by temps dropping below 0 at night even into early summer - this would likely put a lot of people off and goodness knows making a tent or bag choice is itself a full time job!   Later in summer I suspect people are discouraged by many things but also midgies and likelihood of rain.
 

The idea of using a heavier tent and then returning to it is fairly common in Scotland (particularly in winter) especially for people wanting to climb some of the remote hills but not to have to do so with a big pack. I wouldn’t do it for Lower level walking of course!
 

In reply to sheffieldchris:

Internal, external barriers ?

Time, effort, equipment ?

Please expand. 

 pec 25 Jan 2023
In reply to sheffieldchris:

I began my proper walking career as a teenager backpacking and wild camping in The Lakes, North Pennines, NY Moors etc and wondered why nobody else seemed to have as big a rucksack as me, I had just assumed most people would want to do that.

It soon became apparent that almost everybody else went down to the valley for the night. For me, not having a car I couldn't just drive home after every day's walking, the cost of stopping in a B&B was prohibitive any totally unethical anyway (it was all about having an adventure) and being skint, I didn't see the point of paying to stop on a campsite when you camp in the hills for free.

I think the number of people backpacking is a small fraction of 1% of all walkers. As to why? Mostly I think people just go out for the day, they have other stuff going on in their lives so they want/need to get home that evening. When people go away for a weekend they either don't want to carry the weight necessary to backpack, they want the comfort of being indoors overnight (B&B or hostel etc) or at least want a shower on a campsite or maybe they want to go to the pub in the evening. Many simply lack the sense of adventure to want to wild camp.

I don't think cost is the issue. Top spec lightweight gear is expensive but perfectly adequate and reasonably light gear is cheaper and more easily available than it's ever been. People who can afford a car or B&Bs could afford it if they want and people who valley camp have everything they need anyway except perhaps a lightweight tent but they could have bought one instead of a car camping tent for not much more.

2
 Brass Nipples 25 Jan 2023
In reply to artif:

> You only have to take a look at the "minimum" kit lists all over the web, without which you will die!!!!!! The cost alone is enough to put any potentials off 

> For an overnighter in good weather you really don't need much, drink, food (cold snacks) and a sleeping bag/mat, maybe a shelter bivvy /tarp. As the weather etc gets more challenging you may need more

When I was aged 12-15 I’d often get the bus to Hayfield then head out with a mate onto Kinder or onwards to Bleaklow.  We had a bit of clearly poly that we’d use for shelter.  A Trangia for cooking and sleeping bags .  Sometimes we’d find the shooting cabins open and sleep in them.

A nice night out.

 S Ramsay 25 Jan 2023
In reply to sheffieldchris:

I have done this but these outings probably make up 0.1% of the walks I go on. I live in England but have only done it in Scotland, there doesn't feel much need in England, everywhere can be reached easily by road so any destination you fancy can be reached as part of a day walk. Plus the legality factor makes me more relaxed in Scotland. The English countryside feels very crowded, I want somewhere isolated to camp and that can be hard to find in England. Oh, and I like proper toilets

 Robert Durran 26 Jan 2023
In reply to S Ramsay:

> ........Oh, and I like proper toilets

It never ceases to amaze me how many people's lives are hobbled by an obsession with showering and toilets. Let go! Liberate yourself!

 Lankyman 26 Jan 2023
In reply to Robert Durran:

> Let go! Liberate yourself!

A dump with a view is one of life's great pleasures. I'm sure there's a coffee table book in there somewhere.

 Robert Durran 26 Jan 2023
In reply to Lankyman:

> A dump with a view is one of life's great pleasures.

Absolutely.

> I'm sure there's a coffee table book in there somewhere.

The Great Dumping Grounds Of Scotland.

Though I'm not sure the resulting honeypotting would be desirable.

 Ramblin dave 26 Jan 2023
In reply to pec:

> I don't think cost is the issue. Top spec lightweight gear is expensive but perfectly adequate and reasonably light gear is cheaper and more easily available than it's ever been. People who can afford a car or B&Bs could afford it if they want and people who valley camp have everything they need anyway except perhaps a lightweight tent but they could have bought one instead of a car camping tent for not much more.

I think that with a lot of this stuff - the cost, the legality, the anticipation of discomfort and inconvenience - the point isn't that anything's an absolute brick wall, it's that it all adds little hurdles to having a go, and when you can basically get to almost anywhere south of the border on a day walk there's not enough of an obvious incentive for most people to get over all the hurdles.

 J72 26 Jan 2023
In reply to Robert Durran:

Agree with this - though if I’m out for just one night camping I don’t usually remember a toothbrush so possibly in a small percentage demographic of those with questionable personal hygiene practices! 

 Robert Durran 26 Jan 2023
In reply to J72:

> Agree with this - though if I’m out for just one night camping I don’t usually remember a toothbrush so possibly in a small percentage demographic of those with questionable personal hygiene practices! 

Apart from maybe handwashing, toothbrushing is probably the only bit of personal hygiene worth worrying about for pretty much any length of trip.

 OwenM 26 Jan 2023
In reply to sheffieldchris:

Interesting question, I think most outdoors type people I know will do some backpacking even if only very occasionally. Myself I really hate organised campsites, can't remember the last time I used one. I'm really into wilderness, the wilder the better.  I sometimes go walkabout for two or three weeks at a time. I know I'm unusual in that but I do think there are more people who's main interest is going backpacking than people on here seem to think. I'd hazard a guess that they wouldn't consider themselves climbers, maybe don't even like scrambling. So, they wouldn't be signing up to UK Climbing forum. So wouldn't be on UKC's radar.

In reply to sheffieldchris:

Thank you for all taking the time to reply, some very good comments.

After 35+ years hill walking and backpacking lots of multi day hikes, some very long ones abroad.

I am trying to understand why I see so few British people both in the UK and abroad. I did the Pennine way in 2021 and bet I met less than 5 other people doing the whole route and this was late July early August. 

I know people who have told me they would love to do say the Everest base camp trek but were not confident enough to try. 

Big disclaimer, they did have enough money, they did have enough holiday time, they did have enough basic equipment. What they did not have was the trust that they could manage it.

On a walk with them one day we chatted about what the trek was like (I have done it twice by different routes) by the end of the walk they had made up their minds to try.

Later that year after the successful trek they said it was the best walking holiday they had ever had.

a comment that I think hits the mark is.

I think that with a lot of this stuff - the cost, the legality, the anticipation of discomfort and inconvenience - the point isn't that anything's an absolute brick wall, it's that it all adds little hurdles to having a go, and when you can basically get to almost anywhere south of the border on a day walk there's not enough of an obvious incentive for most people to get over all the hurdles.

I am looking into ways to get adults into the backpacking part of the outdoors,  does the hive mind think this is a mission impossible? 

 pec 26 Jan 2023
In reply to Ramblin dave:

> I think that with a lot of this stuff - the cost, the legality, the anticipation of discomfort and inconvenience - the point isn't that anything's an absolute brick wall, it's that it all adds little hurdles to having a go,

The real obstacles are not great and they can all be overcome by anyone with a bit of motivation. If obstacles are the issue they only exist in people's minds.

> and when you can basically get to almost anywhere south of the border on a day walk there's not enough of an obvious incentive for most people to get over all the hurdles.

I think the point is you don't backpack because you need to, you do it because you want to. It's an end in itself, not a means to an end.

 profitofdoom 26 Jan 2023
In reply to sheffieldchris:

Absolutely not a mission impossible. IMO

Good luck with it anyway 

 pec 26 Jan 2023
In reply to sheffieldchris:

> I am looking into ways to get adults into the backpacking part of the outdoors,  does the hive mind think this is a mission impossible? 

I don't know if it's mission impossible or not but I don't see what the point is. If adults don't want to that's their choice. If they do but haven't the wits to work out how they probably aren't cut out for it.

Given the pressures on the limited open spaces we have and the potential for conflict with landowners the more it stays under the radar the better. That's not compatible with encouraging more people to do it.

 Andrew95 26 Jan 2023

When I was at uni I did a lot more multi day camping / hiking. The main reason being is that with a lack of my own transport if I wanted to go anywhere it was via public transport and normally ended up being expensive, inconvenient or both! So multi day trips were a lot easier - especially to far flung and exotic places like the Lakes or North Wales. 

Since then, and now having my own form of transport, everywhere is closer - the concept of driving two and a half hours to north wales for a day is nothing. I can drive up to Wales, and push myself harder knowing there is a dry set of clothes and heated car only a few hours away.

I still do a lot of camping, but generally in campsites and doing day hikes out from there. Also I am worried about leaving my car in random places for a couple of days. 

This year I am hoping to change that. I really want to go back doing some longer multi day walks - I really fancy getting into long distance foot paths, but not quite sure where to start. I have become quite complacent in what I do and how I do it and I really want to diversify into lots of other things. 

 BuzyG 26 Jan 2023
In reply to sheffieldchris:

What happend to the other similar thead? I posted a reply in that one. Not in this one. Now it appears my reply is deleted?

In reply to sheffieldchris:

> I am looking into ways to get adults into the backpacking part of the outdoors,  does the hive mind think this is a mission impossible? 

My reason for not camping overnight is primarily that I don’t enjoy it. I’m a light sleeper, I don’t have lightweight kit (camping or otherwise) and I’m often already paying for a holiday cottage when I’m in the Highlands. I’ve climbed 260-odd Munros without camping and enjoy my creature comforts when I get down from the hill. But each to their own of course.

Having seen the piles of human poo behind the buildings at Derry Lodge every summer, I wouldn’t necessarily want to encourage more people to backpack!
 

1
In reply to BuzyG:

not sure I have just looked and can not see the thread, though as someone pointed out it is on both forums so maybe the admin cut the second one i posted. please feel free to comment on this one thanks

In reply to Andrew95:

> This year I am hoping to change that. I really want to go back doing some longer multi day walks - I really fancy getting into long distance foot paths, but not quite sure where to start. I have become quite complacent in what I do and how I do it and I really want to diversify into lots of other things. 

I have recently started doing a lot of short two or three day walks in the Lakeland fells, wild camping up high, and using public transport to get to my start and return from my finish point - I find this very liberating as I am not tied to a car, and can change my plans on the hill, deciding to finish pretty much anywhere that has a public transport link. 

 oldie 26 Jan 2023
In reply to Robert Durran:

> Apart from maybe handwashing, toothbrushing is probably the only bit of personal hygiene worth worrying about for pretty much any length of trip.<

After about 10 days without a wash or fresh clothes in the Alps it was strongly hinted that I stank. More recently l worry about UTIs etc and have made use of cold lakes or freezing waterfalls which I do not particularly enjoy.

 redscotti 26 Jan 2023
In reply to pec:

> I think the point is you don't backpack because you need to, you do it because you want to. It's an end in itself, not a means to an end.

Not in my case. Hotels, b&b, etc all the way while traveling. I'll happily wild camp though where these aren't options and in preference to huts, bothies, crowded campsites, etc.

 Ramblin dave 26 Jan 2023
In reply to pec:

> The real obstacles are not great and they can all be overcome by anyone with a bit of motivation. 

Yeah, I agree. I don't think there's a whole cohort of hillwalkers who desperately want to get into backpacking or wild camping but can't because it's too difficult or expensive or anything.

> I think the point is you don't backpack because you need to, you do it because you want to. It's an end in itself, not a means to an end.

I mean sure, but we don't do any of this stuff because we need to. And the rewards of the "end in itself" are much more obvious if you've got large areas nearby where spending a night or two out is a natural way to see the country rather than somewhere like the Lakes where you're essentially camping out for the fun of being out on your own. So for many people, particularly south of Scotland, they can't see enough benefits for it to be worth the effort of working out what they need to do and getting the kit to do it.

 katryb 26 Jan 2023
In reply to sheffieldchris:

Because my enjoyment of the hiking during the day is inversely proportionate to the amount of stuff I have to carry on my back, and also directly proportionate to the level of comfort I experience during the night. 

Point to point hikes also bring travel issues. 

There are plenty of really awesome day hikes you can do in the UK, and then return to your nice family sized tent with comfy bed, cool box full of food and campsite toilets and showers  

With day hikes you also aren't 'committed' if the weather turns gash and can just do something else. 

I've done probably more than my fair share of multi-day hikes carrying everything and unless its really 'worth it' like doing a super cool trail, I'd rather just stay in one place and do day hikes.

Am also happy to stay in hotel/B&B accomodation along the way and eat in resturants in the evenings, but then you have to plan to be near civilisation. 

I find "credit card touring" works really well on multi-day road bike missions as you cover ground more quickly (and are on roads anyway) so can more easily plan to stay in h

 BuzyG 26 Jan 2023
In reply to sheffieldchris:

I find it very much depends on where you are, in the SW.

Up on Dartmoor in winter I meet many folk wild camping.  Hard to put a figure on it but, excluding the dog walkers on the fringes, it's probably about 10% of those I come across. But then I generally meet only a handful of people if any. In the summer there are many more people up there walking. So though there will be more people wild camping, as a proportion it's much less, probably more like 1%

On Bodmin moor I see very few folk wild camping. <0.1%

On the SWCP in winter virtually none and in summer quite a few, though most are surf party camps, not walkers. Still a tiny proportion of those using the path though again <0.1 % in my view.

So basically Dartmoor is by far the most popular place and where I do most of my wild camping too. Just check the ranges are free of squaddies.

 alan moore 26 Jan 2023
In reply to sheffieldchris:

Long time ago I was enamoured with romance of backpacking, days wandering through the hills with your house on your back.

A couple of spine crushing trip humping a whopping great rucsac around killed that forever.

Much prefer a single, long day. Probably cover more ground as well with half the effort and twice the fun.

1
In reply to Robert Durran:

Robert, you could write a book called Durran's Dumping Grounds and start a new craze: ticking Durrans, much like Munros!

Post edited at 17:06
 Lankyman 26 Jan 2023
In reply to John Stainforth:

> Robert, you could write a book called Durran's Dumping Grounds and start a new craze: ticking Durrans, much like Munros!

Not 'ticking'. It'd have to be something like 'wiping' the Durrans

 Robert Durran 26 Jan 2023
In reply to Lankyman:

> Not 'ticking'. It'd have to be something like 'wiping' the Durrans.

Maybe just a little flag on a cocktail stick.

 Lankyman 26 Jan 2023
In reply to Robert Durran:

> Maybe just a little flag on a cocktail stick.

Better a tissue poking from under a rock

 Robert Durran 26 Jan 2023
In reply to Lankyman:

> Better a tissue poking from under a rock

I never carry it. Vegetation and stones are perfectly adequate and more environmentally friendly.

 Robert Durran 26 Jan 2023
In reply to Lankyman:

> Better a tissue poking from under a rock

I never carry it. Vegetation and stones are perfectly adequate, not unsightly and more environmentally friendly.

How often and when? 

I expect like many people, I *have* done multiday hikes, but not in a long time and I've have very little motivation to do so in the Peak when I live in Sheffield (though I know the odd person interested in the Pennine Way - people do love the Ways).

I used to be quite interested in it a few years back as a challenge to myself (I've done in Patagonia, the Rockies, and a personal solo walk from my front door in Buckinghamshire to my Grandma's in Oxfordshire, three days away, though camping rather than wild camping. I wouldn't have felt confident doing the latter on my own but it's also much harder to be stealthy down there). I did love the idea of getting my local OS and travelling on foot from my front door, particularly the places you're not expected to do that - I had a plan to walk to London (and in Covid, to walk home), including a day following the Grand Union Canal, which I thought was quite sweet, but unfortunately, it was prohibitively expensive to stay for a night in Watford... 

Now, it just sounds tiring tbh (I also don't have super lightweight kit and fitness is down). I do think that super lightweight is expensive; like most walkers I have good enough that I can make do, but in a 65l not a 30l, and I've never carried more than 3 days of food and fuel. Plus in some places I'd worry about water, and all weight is a big consideration at 5'3". 

I would worry about doing it on my own without signal, which is the case in a lot of the UK (not when I did it on the Ridgeway, and abroad, you'll run into loads of people).

As you age it also means dealing with more frequent health complaints that aren't predictable, or just aren't so pleasant lying on the ground with no bathroom in the rain (migraines, digestion, period pain... Hell is 2am in a tent with no signal, on your own,  with a UTI that means you can barely walk).

Also, frankly, I'm surprised that more people haven't said it takes a lot of time off work. That's maybe fun in Canada in summer but in the Peak I don't necessarily want my weekends, after a tiring week, to involve bad sleep. This has stopped me even going for a local wild camp at the weekend!

If I did it again now I'd be more interested in doing it somewhere cool (Alps, WHW, etc) and would consider not camping. 

I wouldn't have thought the Peak is the main place to look, though (except for the many wild campers as you mention).

Post edited at 22:20
 Fat Bumbly2 26 Jan 2023
In reply to Lankyman:

Wild crapping


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