Apologies for the link to a rival site but I found this quite surprising.
Has anyone else had this experience?
https://outdoorsmagic.com/article/news-wild-campers-caught-by-thermal-imagi...
Cripes! That's a bit worrying, I always assume an hours walk and I would never get bothered. Let's hope its isolated to the local area, I don't think the estate around Bamford has ever been particularly welcoming.
To be honest the Peak has always felt "not quite rural enough" to me for wild camping, nowhere is really genuinely away from everywhere (my usual line would be "if you get caught you were doing it wrong"). But I suppose if Peak landowners can be going around with drones with thermal imaging cameras, so can those in the Lakes etc...
So it was on Bamford Edge, which is owned by the Moscar Estate right? If so, considering the ownership I'm hardly surprised. Doubt that camper being rescued in the Lakes helped either.
It is hardly surprising that the estate moved people on. The Peak District and Bamford edge in particular is currently being trashed at an alarming rate. Check out the lay-bys full of rubbish and eroded verges at Bamford edge road, plus two recent fires being caused by imbecilic disposable barbecue usage. Despite all this the park authority and BMC are full speed ahead encouraging more and more people to visit the outdoors. The whole area is a fragile and irreplaceable eco system and when it’s gone it’s gone. I was recently approached by somebody who said “Is this the Peak District” to which I replied in the affirmative and they said “Well what do you do” “Go walking, climbing cycling or something similar” was what I said. “ Oh that’s no good, are there any cafes we can drive to”. Still want more and more people to visit?
Sounds like they were at Bamford. It’s quite a popular “wild camping” spot. Only a 15/20 minute walk, good views and features on popular “wild camping” YouTube sites. Was climbing there Tuesday night and saw three tents.
Idiot. I've seen enough cinema to know all they needed to do was cover themselves in a thin patchy layer of mud and they would become invisible to thermal-based vision of any kind.
we need to start using military grade non IR reflective garments and facepaint - you can get olive drab anti IR reflective vehicle paint you can put on your camping metalwork.
while that isn't wholly effective it is quite a good defence against insects which I've used on occasion
> we need to start using military grade non IR reflective garments and facepaint - you can get olive drab anti IR reflective vehicle paint you can put on your camping metalwork.
Still not great at defeating thermal. Layers of scrim net works surprisingly well though.
> Still not great at defeating thermal. Layers of scrim net works surprisingly well though.
If you can get in a dry drainage sike that significantly reduces the volume of space from which you have a site line. Get in a well insulated sleeping bag and roll a foam mat up over the back of your head and you could be pretty hard to find...
Get inside a Blizzard Bag and you'll appear as a block of ice
> we need to start using military grade non IR reflective garments and facepaint - you can get olive drab anti IR reflective vehicle paint you can put on your camping metalwork.
“Non IR Reflective”? The QM must have hated me, all my kit was marked “IRR”...
I think it's reflective, rather than non reflective, as plants tend to reflect IR, so to anyone using an old school IR illuminator you don't stand out against the foliage. Not much comfort in an urban area though.
Not much use against TI either.
Curl up in a ball and pretend you're a sheep?
No use. If you don’t try and commit suicide within a couple of minutes they’ll know you’re not a sheep.
> Curl up in a ball and pretend you're a sheep?
That won't work; I've heard they can detect sheep as well. Or in this case - wild sheep.
> Get inside a Blizzard Bag and you'll appear as a block of ice
Problem is the rustling noises will attract the search dogs unless you keep really still.
> Problem is the rustling noises will attract the search dogs unless you keep really still.
It's the Search Cats you need to worry about:
Hmm. An An upland grouse shooting estate would have lots of legitimate reasons to restrict the presence of prying eyes during raptor breeding season, wouldn't it?
And wake up covered in ticks!
yes I think I was mixing it up with the old stuff from the 70s where there would have been IR illumination and there was anti reflection stuff about. Wouldn't have stopped your movements being picked up by a spooky ZB298 operator though. You'd need significant insulation to prevent thermal imaging detection. Perhaps a space blanket as well topped by heaped earth, troglodytic camping
Blimey, Moscar Estate are upping their game and employing a Predator.
New 'Wild' Camping checklist:
- Tent
- Sleeping Bag
- Mat
- Arnold Schwarzenegger
It is surprising as it's rare to become news.
On the BMC you are plain wrong, which is especially sad, as it distracts from the real problems you report. The BMC encourage responsible participation and directly oppose all the things you are complaining about and organise cleanups and other environmental improvement. Even the Peak Park have been quiet during covid and often recommending avoiding the area.
> Blimey, Moscar Estate are upping their game and employing a Predator.
> New 'Wild' Camping checklist:
> - Tent
> - Sleeping Bag
> - Mat
> - Arnold Schwarzenegger
You forgot:
- De Chaapper
Counted 8 tents visible from the crag tonight. Just as we were leaving at 8:15 two guys on a quad turned up and started moving them on.
I wonder where they'll go to?
I think Bamford must be featuring in some Instagram-places-to-go articles judging by the coachloads last year.
Personally I just wish they'd all abide by the no dogs rule
Harrumph.
I have bivvied up there a couple of times, but not for a few years and never in a tent. 8 tents does seem to be taking the piss a bit. It's not that "wild" as wild camping spots go. If you walk over the moor and go and bivvy on the top High Neb behind, even with a torch on, you'd be out of line of sight from virtually all the houses down in the valley.
The quad bike usage does seem vaguely ironic although. It's hardly that big a walk from the road!
> Blimey, Moscar Estate are upping their game and employing a Predator.
Even I think a drone with Hellfire missiles is a tad excessive.
> The quad bike usage does seem vaguely ironic although. It's hardly that big a walk from the road!
Not to mention the contribution to climate change?... Surely the Duke ought to just sow the area with anti-personnel mines instead? That'd make for some fairly wild camping, and any survivors will have earned the right to kip a night under canvas.
Does the no dogs rule only apply below the crag? I thought dogs were regarded as a "usual accompaniement" on footpaths and therefore not considered to be trespassing (while wheeling a bike down a footpath would be dodgy ground).
You joke, but a number of fell runners have been caught in their unmarked snares over the years.
> Curl up in a ball and pretend you're a sheep?
https://sos-shop.com/collections/survival-outdoor/products/thermal-survival...
This looks quite interesting as a possible solution.
I've wild camped loads but never with a tent just in a plantation or next to boulders with a bivi bag.
Never had an issue apart from one time but we were a pile of 15 year old drunk kids with a fire.. I doubt they needed a thermal imaging camera to find us.
Is there any evidence this was he came here? Bamford edge always had access issues anyway. Was that sorted after CRoW? I grew up on the edge of sheffield but haven't lived there since 1998.
Dogs are fine on a public footpath. Not sure if it's public access over Bamford though or a permissive trail.
Bamford is now Access Land under CRoW, but the estate takes full advantage of its right to close it for 28 days a year. The estate is clearly unhappy with any public access and it unsurprising that they will try to stop anything which isn't permitted by CRoW, such as camping. Thermal imaging seems a bit OTT but maybe they have the kit for other purposes. On the other hand a group of 8 tents pitched before sundown is hardly discreet.
Dogs under close control are allowed on public rights of way through CROW Access Land where dogs are otherwise banned, landowners have no powers to stop dogs being walked on public rights of way
It's a weird sensation having some sympathy with the Moscar Estate, I don't like it.
> Thermal imaging seems a bit OTT but maybe they have the kit for other purposes.
Am I imagining things or was there a tourist info poster advertising the Peak a few years back that featured a pair of booted feet in the entrance to a tent (like a foot selfie) framing the view from Bamford? (They said "Peaks" too, damn their eyes.)
> Does the no dogs rule only apply below the crag?
As a couple of people have already said, dogs are always allowed (under 'close control') on public rights of way but the thing is that there are no ROW's over Bamford. The landowner is entitled to ban dogs from access land, and in this case they do. (They also ban people to the maximum extent that they're allowed to by CROW legislation - 28 days a year.)
The Northern end of Stanage including High Neb is on the same estate. Hardly anyone takes a blind bit of notice but strictly speaking dogs are not allowed other than on the public rights of way there either.
Moscar estate have had problems with people hiding out to obtain evidence of illegal behaviour towards raptors etc. Thats very likely the reason they have the kit. Wild camping has been recommended at Bamford Edge on social media, despite obviously being against the CRoW rules..... a potential future access issue as Moscar are looking to do all they can to fully utilise and extend CRoW restrictions.
The BMC RAD page is clear for Stanage from High Neb northwards. No dogs are allowed except on Public Rights of Way. It's possible for a few areas to tie up a dog near enough (on the footpath below the crag) but not at High Neb (I saw several climbing parties with dogs up there on Friday but at least they were all on leads... very important in spring given lambing and ground nesting ring ouzels).
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/modules/rad/view.aspx?id=150
Since I collected a load of dislikes for just pointing out the truth about sensible BMC recommendations here is another recent one:
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/respect-the-wild-camping-vanning
A good deterrent is to have dessicated walkers hung from fences in similar manner and number as a molecatcher leaves moles
Or in stink pits, the same way they dispose of hare carcases.
I believe the rule on the estate is that dogs are only allowed on the right of way along the top of High Neb, and even on there they must be on a short lead and under control. Which is reasonable having suffered from loose dogs on just about every crag I have been on!
The No Dogs signs are fairly clear at Bamford. I was struggling to top out once and nearly had my face bitten off by a loose dog so I'm grateful for the estate rules.
As are the Keep Dogs on Leads sign between 1 March and 31 July at Froggatt.
1 midweek day in March I counted 15 out of 18 dogs off their lead - including 1 group of climbers heading home. After gently reminding the first 3 parties I met and being ignored I gave up.
But the sight of a spaniel dashing in and out of the heather at will and the thought of all the ground nesting birds disturbed made me wonder why folk are so arrogant.
> The No Dogs signs are fairly clear at Bamford.
Doctor’s Gate, twenty yards from a pair of those signs:
”It’s nesting season now, can I beg you to keep the dog on a lead...”
”Mind your own f***ing business.”
I didn't get abuse, just smiles and nods and no action.
Like "thank you for reminding me what other dog owners should do"
The second BMC Members Open Forum webinar took place on 20 March. Recently-appointed BMC CEO Paul Ratcliffe, President Andy Syme and Chair Roger Murray shared updates on staff changes, new and ongoing initiatives, insurance policy changes and the current...