Hey
I'm doing jacks rake on Sunday and I heard about this grade 3 chimney at the top . how do you get to it from the main jacks rake route does anybody have any pictures of it or anything ? I haven't heard much information about it I just heard about it so any information about it would be helpful thank you .
Have you looked/googled for images?
'After a slight levelling the rake continues in much the same vein until a substantial ledge is reached at the bottom of Gwynne’s Chimney (Diff), beyond which is the finish of the classic Crescent Climb (G3+). '
https://www.ukscrambles.com/lake-district-scrambles/jacks-rake/
Looks like Crescent is the one you are looking for
The Crescent climb is below the rake. I think Gwynne’s chimney is what he is meaning; but I don’t think it would usually be considered a scramble.
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/pavey_ark-342/gwynnes_chimney-5979...
If it is Gwynne's Chimney then it is absolutely definitely not a scramble. I did it with a few handicaps (non-climbing brother belaying me on a single half rope with freezing cold hands, a waterfall running down the chimney, walking boots etc) but it felt absolutely full on! Sod trying to go up it as a scramble!
Hey
Im not on about the climb chimney I'm on about the direct way up the end tower.
https://www.cicerone.co.uk/scrambles-in-the-lake-district-south-a-sample-ro...
I read it here it says about a grade 3 route at the top im wondering how do u get to it and what's it like?
Yes but I can't find anything all I can find is this
https://www.cicerone.co.uk/scrambles-in-the-lake-district-south-a-sample-ro...
Buy the book and take it up with you
> I can't im going this Sunday
Go to a shop - those things in the street that sell books and stuff
> Have you done the grade 3 bit ?
No. But I could find it from the info you already have and weigh it up when I got there
It is a tiny variation on the route. We're talking about 2 or 3m difference, up a short step. You'll see it. It's not worth writing up and you won't find more information than the description you already have.
By the by, there are much nicer walks to be had in the area and Jack's Rake is very busy these days with all kinds of numpties out searching for the latest "extreme challenge" fad - big packs of hungover "lads" or else irate guys trying to prove their virility by bullying their girlfriends up it. All this fuss over a 150m section of path.
I'm still interested in doing it though could you please tell me how to get to the grade 3 bit it will be much appreciated.
And im not a walker im a scrambler and its raining on Sunday so I don't think it will be that busy.
The rake levels briefly and passes below Gwynne’s Chimney before the path leads up a short, steep, more exposed step. The trough then deepens again and exits at an airy platform, passing a prominent ‘gun’ rock on the way. Continue walking up the gully until the path goes left onto the front of the broad buttress. There is a well-cleaned, direct way with a steep start (Grade 3), but it is easiest to continue walking with a slight descent before the track climbs again to finish walking up slabs into a shallow depression with a large cairn at the top.
[edited]
Yes I've read that bit but what I'm confused about is how will I know its the grade 3 route do you have any pictures?
Yes - there's one here: https://www.cicerone.co.uk/scrambles-in-the-lake-district-south-a-sample-ro...
Follow the red line marked with a 1. Near the top, follow your nose. There are slightly harder or easier ways. Pick the way that best suits you.
I hope you have a great day out walking
Guess who's back.
Back again.
CA's back. Tell a friend.
Guess who's back, guess who's back, guess who's back.
Part of gaining skills in scrambling is learning to pick a line. Don't do a move you think you could fall on. Don't do a move you can't reverse. Pick a line that looks good and enjoy it. If its too hard then reverse and take a different line. If it all looks too hard then reverse the route and walk round the side.
> Part of gaining skills in scrambling is learning to pick a line. Don't do a move you think you could fall on. Don't do a move you can't reverse. Pick a line that looks good and enjoy it. If its too hard then reverse and take a different line. If it all looks too hard then reverse the route and walk round the side.
^ This
I appreciate the OP doesn't want to end up off route, but if they need every step explaining they might be better trying something else to improve their route finding a bit more.
I am indeed
Great, super! Can you find him some videos about bootlace tying? It would be a bad place to lose a boot.
Yep, you're right: I'm talking pish again.
> If it is Gwynne's Chimney then it is absolutely definitely not a scramble<
No - it can be a greasy horrorshow. I've seen a couple of people come to serious grief on there...disconcerting when half way up Rake End Wall....
> Part of gaining skills in scrambling is learning to pick a line. Don't do a move you think you could fall on. Don't do a move you can't reverse. Pick a line that looks good and enjoy it. If its too hard then reverse and take a different line. If it all looks too hard then reverse the route and walk round the side.
Excellent advice. If I remember correctly the OP is a youngish teenager who does these scrambles with his dad. (Sorry if I'm wrong about that). If dad is not an experienced scrambler then both would be well advised to read this advice.
Relying on a guidebook grade and description might be OK when roped climbing above solid protection, but definitely not when scrambling unroped with serious fall potential. The best approach is always to assess the difficulty for yourself and never keep going up tricky ground just because you think you're on the route that's described in the guidebook
Martin
> Great, super! Can you find him some videos about bootlace tying? It would be a bad place to lose a boot.
Do you mind? You have no idea of the mental struggle and self control involved for me not to put "Let me f****** google that for you".
> Yes I've read that bit but what I'm confused about is how will I know its the grade 3 route do you have any pictures?
You'll know you're on it when your sphincter begins to twitch
> Yes I've read that bit but what I'm confused about is how will I know its the grade 3 route do you have any pictures?
No picture required, it's just some bulging blocks the path passes below before dipping slightly to get to the easier ending.
Pavey Ark in the rain isn't really the best place to be experimenting with wandering off route if you're not sure of your line and/or abilities, too many opportunities to end up on something a lot more serious.
> No picture required, it's just some bulging blocks the path passes below before dipping slightly to get to the easier ending.
The grade 3 is straight up, the grade 1 is along the ledges to the left then turn up to the pointy bit
https://www.summitpost.org/the-final-section-of-jacks-rake/999691/c-1000429
Thank you
Finally I got there in the end this is exactly what I was looking for so do I go straight up where the guys are going in the picture
youtube.com/watch?v=9Hb36_1uShA&
Is this the grade 3 bit at 4 : 26 in the video ?
I find some of the advice on this thread confusing and imprecise (I've been up the Rake man many times over the last 30+ years, including ascents with children suitably helmeted and roped). I've always used the way up shown in the video linked in your post (except for one occasion when I went to see what the alternative was) but have never regarded it as particularly hard unless you really push it to its limit and take the hardest option at every choice.
However, the grade 1 overall for Jack's Rake I think is not a good grading. The moves are not particularly hard but there is plenty of scope for getting into trouble and in particular the fact that parts can be lovely and dry but still with areas of wet rock to catch the unwary make it necessary to exercise care the whole way up. In some ways doing it when it it's wholly wet simplifies this as you don't have to remember to watch out for slippery bits!
There is also some loose rock to be dislodged as others have said so I'd wear a helmet - many don't but they are just assuming it isn't their unlucky day.
> Finally I got there in the end
Churlish. You got a bit of mild ribbing, which you deserved, and some very sound advice along the way.
Somerset swede basher's post in particular may not have been the advice you want, but it was very much the advice you need so if you weren't paying attention then you'd do well to go back, read it and think about it now. (Especially if you're on the brink of convincing yourself that you now know where the 'correct' route is.)
Is that youtube a spoof? In fact, is this thread a spoof? I feel like I'm missing something.
In reply to gravy:
> Quote removed
I can understand that, but to paraphrase Martin Hore:
’Part of gaining skills in using online forums is learning to pick a thread. Don't look at threads you think will annoy you. Don't look at posts by people that annoy you. Pick a thread that looks good and enjoy it. If it’s too bloody annoying then reverse and read a different thread. If it all looks too hard then reverse and look at a different forum.’
😃
I have to say I got distracted and timed out while reversing was still possible, I need an egg timer or, better still, a self locking keyboard...
> Is that youtube a spoof? In fact, is this thread a spoof? I feel like I'm missing something.
No. It's real. It's just that we are trying to communicate something to someone who can't tell an @rse from an elbow.
Being more charitable, someone who expects a more precise, quantified and ranked description of something as vague as a scramble which basically goes somewhere up that bit of rock by whatever line you fancy taking.
I remember Jack's Rake being very exposed in places, but the route-finding being very straightforward and obvious. You just follow this huge line of weakness, following the wear (keeping a little left if you want to spice it up/add to the exposure). Near the top it goes left but that's still very obvious because there's even something of a footpath, IIRC.
I never found it that exposed, even, given that its in a trough for the most part. Lily when she was 6 wasn't the least bit phased by any of it.
I remember some of the options at the top feeling a bit more spicy when verglassed in winter, mind.
This is a website for climbers and hillwalkers and a post on a hill-talk forum. I actually think he was asking a reasonable question for the forum, on a famous scramble, in maybe a slightly odd way (as is his history here). I'm a little bit ashamed of some of the attitudes on display here. We had problems before when regulars got unreasonably annoyed long after it became obvious the poster they were annoyed with was somewhere 'on the spectrum' (and this was confirmed by people who had met them), that poster's posts also attracted very large numbers of dislikes and looked to me very much like cyber bullying and triggered me to survey all posts at the time (they were indeed the largest). Kindness costs nothing and odd behaviour often has a good explanation.
I also think it's up with the most exposed scrambles for its diffculty that I know, especially mid way where the groove opens. It's one reason why it is so good.
> I never found it that exposed, even, given that its in a trough for the most part. Lily when she was 6 wasn't the least bit phased by any of it.
> I remember some of the options at the top feeling a bit more spicy when verglassed in winter, mind.
What I was referring to was not staying in the trough at all but keeping right out on its L/H edge on very good rock, I recall. Not the way most people take, I suppose. I only did it that one time, because when I was doing my Lakes book I was trying to do as many different scrambles/walks as possible.
Having descended it recently sometimes you're on the rib but mostly in the trough. At no point did it feel very exposed., which I think was Wainwright's assessment too.
I don't think the end of the Rake is at all difficult or exposed. Gwynne's chimney however, in the days when I could scramble it, is made decidedly difficult if you have a back pack on.
I have a feeling Alfred never actually climbed the rake
I suspect the term Thrutch was devised just for Gwynne's chimney.
I suspect you're right. Many years ago a friend of mine wrote to him suggesting Sharp Edge was quite intimidating (which it is); he slapped her down quite rudely.
To the OP; Jack's Rake is a proper scramble, I have been seriously disomfited watching numpties struggling up there with their children. A fatal accident is not impossible. But you cannot expect a definitive answer to how hard it is or not, at best you might get a consensus about how it compares with other scrambles. For me - it's harder than Striding or Swirral Edges, about the same as Sharp Edge. And that's as much as I'm prepared to say.
You're too desensitised from climbing. I did most of these scrambles before I started my obsession with climbing. It's steep for a grade 1 and incredibly low technicality for an ascent of such a steep cliff. Mid-way it's very exposed and just as the moves back into the upper grove feel a bit precarious.
> No - it can be a greasy horror show. I've seen a couple of people come to serious grief on there...disconcerting when half way up Rake End Wall....
There have also been a couple of people who have gone all the way to the bottom of Arcturus in recent years. The Rake is more risky than people believe.
DC
> I have a feeling Alfred never actually climbed the rake
He almost certainly did do it - there's a remarkably detailed description in the relevant volume of the Pictorial Guide, not the kind of thing that could have been written/drawn without first-hand knowledge. Plus, when Wainwright definitely didn't do something - eg the top bit of Helm Crag - he was open and honest about it. The general reverse argument is perhaps more likely to be the case: Wainwright was more competent and capable that tends to be assumed, and his self-portrayal as a non-scrambling walker was overstated for comedic effect or whatever.
Re Jack's Rake itself, I'm a fairly timid scrambler but despite having got round the Skye Munros and done the Aonach Eagach a couple of times (including in the rain), I've not done the Rake and I don't at all fancy it - there's something serious-feeling and forbidding about it. One day a decade or so ago I decided I was in the right mood and set off up it with a Cumbrian pal, but quite soon - still in the early grooves - I started to feel spooked and (feeling rather silly/embarrassed) called for a retreat. We then went up Easy Gully which is almost certainly technically harder (and gets mentioned in discussions of "the hardest thing in Wainwright"), but even so I'm glad we backed off the Rake and I've had absolutely no subsequent desire to give it a go. Pretty sure it'll remain in the list of things that, despite a lifetime of climbing hills, I've not done.
Take a rope and get the tick! It IS a very good scramble.
Hmm I've taken children up it. My godson when he was 9, and last month my 6yr old daughter. Both harnessed and helmeted, roped up and actually belayed over the bits that were trickier for her.
Hungover groups with no helmets and random footwear make me more nervous. However no doubt I'll get a reply of "hey, I was hungover with no helmet......"
Not about the hangover, or the kids. It's about respecting the route and enjoying the day.
Yours... A numpty with child
Our eldest did it when he was 3 or 4 also helmeted and toped. It was quite funny as after the top part (the subject of this thread) I unroped him on easy ground and he said "You'll have to take care now Daddy as you're unroped" ...
> Take a rope and get the tick! It IS a very good scramble.
Nah, barring some sudden change of mood/mind I can live without it. I don't often get a proper sense of unease, but when it happens I tend to go with my instincts and find something else to do.
Easy Gully was entertaining, though. My pal is a decent scrambler (he recently did the Crinkles Bad Step again at 76), but he's quite a bit shorter than me and when we got to the chockstone I reckoned I could get past it whereas he didn't think he could. We had a chat on the basis that I wasn't going to reverse it, so he'd have to go back down the gully and come back up by North Rake. This is what happened and I spent a pleasant 45 minutes sitting on the terrace waiting for him.
Anyway, I wonder how the OP's getting on - today's the day he's intending Jack's Rake.
There was a specific occasion when we felt obliged to (carefully) overtake two Dads who were really bullying their unroped kids up the Rake, despite barely being in control of themselves.
The rescue helicopter turned up soon after we topped out, and for a while we thought we had been part of a tragedy we might have been able to avert. Thankfully it was not so.
Not all parents with children are automatically numpties, I realised it was unnecessarily pejorative so apologies for that.
That's ok Rob, I was being tongue in cheek. I've seen similar scenes tbh. Depends on the experience of the parents I guess
Hey CA, hope you managed to get a good scramble in.
To the folk who should know better, grow up and wind your necks in. No need for the snide comments on this thread, at all.
Really? 2 pages in Central Fells: '..a comforting parapet of rock accompanies all the steeper parts of the ascent'. Sounds like he knew it quite well.
It isn't true though, is it?
It was my impression too!
That's all I'm prepared to share with the cantankerous old b*gger
> Anyway, I wonder how the OP's getting on - today's the day he's intending Jack's Rake.
Yeah I keep checking in to see how it went for the OP too - Looking forward to an update!
> Yeah I keep checking in to see how it went for the OP too - Looking forward to an update!
I wouldn't hold your breath if I were you...(not to cast aspersions, as I'm sure the mods will understand).
How did you get on at the weekend?
I made a better plan because i checked the weather for this week its better weather this Saturday im going to be doing byrants gully instead because I've been wanting to do that one for ages and it's a nice weekend to do it and I'm going to do jacks rake the week after
Enjoy. Bryant's looks great fun.
Thank you
I done it and I really enjoyed it probaly my favourite scramble
What time did you do it, we did it on Saturday same as you.
About 5 in the morning
Well before us, we didn't start till 10.30, waited till it got proper hot!
It was way to hot even at 5 and u got to get a parking space aha
Thank you
I think im starting to improve a bit on my mountains .
Because I done byrants gully and found it pretty easy and it's a grade 2/3 , and last year I done y garn and I got stuck at the top and that's only a grade 2 .
So I don't know if its that y garn is harder than byrants or If it is me actually getting better but I felt good about myself after I done it , and I think that's one of the good things about mountaineering is the feeling of achievement
Don't get too hung up on grades.
An old guy called Neil Young (ask your dad.Or your grandad) once sung "numbers add up to nothing" and he had a point.
Take care.
Show people what you can do, don't tell them. Enjoy the mountains for what they, the grades are meaningless.
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