Hardest Scrambles in the Lakes without a rope?

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 guffers_hump 18 Mar 2021

Just wondering what people thought were the hardest (Technically and Exposure) scrambles in the Lakes that you can realistically do without a rope and that you can link to a reasonably good hike with peaks in.

Cheers

Edit:

I should of specified. This would be done while on a hike 10k+ with daypacks and Hiking boots. I wouldn't want to spend all day completing the single scramble.

I can get up and have done lots of level 1 and 2 scrambles. I have completed all the famous (red bull article about scrambles) in England and Wales.

Edit 2: I have worded this very badly.

Post edited at 15:57
 tehmarks 18 Mar 2021
In reply to guffers_hump:

That's going to depend entirely on you, really. At one end of the scale you have Hazel Findlay casually soloing Cemetery Gates (not in the Lakes*), and at the other end of the scale you have people who are terrified of making technically easy moves above massive drops.

It's not uncommon for people to solo moderate to relatively technical routes - so the real question is, where do you draw the line between scrambling and soloing? That's a very personal line.

OP guffers_hump 18 Mar 2021
In reply to tehmarks:

Alright fair point.

In reply to guffers_hump:

There are loads of brilliant scrambling link-ups that combine several hands-on routes with as many summits as you like. The new Scrambles in the Lake District (south) guide from Cicerone details a lot of the best choices though you can easily devise more.

Since one person's scramble is another's climb, I don't think it'd be wise for anyone to recommend specific routes to do without a rope, without knowing your ability.

As a very rough general rule of thumb, for walkers with limited climbing background but a steady head for heights I would say that: grade 1 should be ok in most conditions (think twice if it's very wet or windy); grade 2 will always be very exciting, is sensibly only for calm dry conditions, and there may be bits that make you pause and wonder what you are doing there; grade 3 routes are best considered climber's scrambles, so if you don't have the appropriate skills and gear then it's probably best not to get on them.

OP guffers_hump 18 Mar 2021
In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:

Ok thank you, I do have the North and South scrambles in the Lake Districts books from Cicerone. Just a fiddle linking them up. Or probably I'm lazy.

 tehmarks 18 Mar 2021
In reply to guffers_hump:

What's your experience level? That's probably the most pertinent question to allow people to suggest appropriate things for you to look at.

There are plenty of fun link-ups to be done even at grade 1 in the Lakes. If you're relatively new to vertical fun, I'd start slow and work from there as you gain a better understanding of how the grading system correlates to real terrain. You'll have great days out and great fun regardless of the grade though. Difficulty isn't the be-all, and definitely isn't the end-all (well, unless you push it too far and fall off. That would unquestionably 'end all'!)

 Jim Lancs 18 Mar 2021
In reply to guffers_hump:

> Just wondering what people thought were the hardest (Technically and Exposure) scrambles in the Lakes that you can realistically do without a rope and that you can link to a reasonably good hike with peaks in.

Some would consider connecting together all the classic rock routes as a reasonable day's soloing and mountain journey. 

https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/2020/09/lakes_classic_rock_record_set_again...

As scrambling and climbing lay on the same continuum, 'hardest scramble' is all in the eye of the individual.

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 mountainbagger 18 Mar 2021
In reply to guffers_hump:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1902017056/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_55W8G674C52H...

I found this book (Scrambles and Easy Climbs in the Lake District by Jon Sparks) good for planning link ups. But I was quite happy on grade 2 (and some grade 3) unroped, and could take climbing gear on some of the others.

 Sputnick 18 Mar 2021
In reply to guffers_hump:

Gyil scrambles , unroped can be much more serious than ice climbing. 

Iv done a couple of grade 3s. One I got washed back down (slid 6ft but stopped.

Other I had to trust slime that was tearing. 

Nothing like easy rock climbing 

 tehmarks 18 Mar 2021
In reply to Sputnick:

Not quite a ghyll (though it may as well be), but that brings back strong memories of a university hillwalking trip over a decade ago. Fresher trip leader (local and experienced in the hills) tried to take an entire mixed-ability group up Central Gully on Great End in October. Most sensibly opted out and went up the path, but five of us decided it looked suitably entertaining.

Took half of the gully to decide that we didn't really like scrambling up soaking wet and mossy rock, and we escaped out of the gully onto the steep grass on the face. Delicately made our way back to the horizontal, trying to avoid a slide on wet grass back into the gully, and took the path up. Two of our more hardened members continued on but turned around just below the top to also sketchily reverse their handiwork and take the path up.

Turns out the aforementioned fresher had confused the grade with Custs. Oh how we laughed. These sort of things are definitely better saved for winter.

 kaiser 18 Mar 2021
In reply to guffers_hump:

I recently did this outing:

In Langdale, Tarn Crag East Rib (easy G2) up to stickle tarn and then walk round to Harrison Stickle South West Face. That looked absolutely terrifying (also officially G2!!) so walked back round to the tarn and climbed Jack's Rake (Hard G1) then hiked along to Pike o Stickle and looked at West Ridge (G3) but that was also absolutely terrifying so carried on walking down to the path at Mickleden

The Lakes seems to lend itself to scrambley mountaineering days out that are more biased toward hiking, rather than the more rock based outings in Snowdonia does - happy to be corrected on that as I've often thought about this same issue and not come to any very exciting conclusions...

 Sputnick 18 Mar 2021
In reply to tehmarks:

That reminds me of an early spring backpacking trip. 

The gully was half snowed , being a teenager I thought it looked easy. 

As I neared the top I came across a move that I wouldn't want to reverse. 

In a semi panic I threw my pack off. ..shit that's what could happen to me.  It went all the way to the screen. 

Brand new plans flattened.  Decided to be a proper climber.  Seemed safer

 NathanP 18 Mar 2021
In reply to guffers_hump:

Obviously depends on who you are. I've been scared soloing scrambles that others would view as a reasonable down-climb after a liquid lunch in the ODG.

 olddirtydoggy 19 Mar 2021
In reply to guffers_hump:

Low water beck at Coniston. My favourite scramble goes up the waterfall, past the first tarn and up to the summit ridge. Explore the underground mines on the way down for extra points, if you can find them behind the open mine workings that is.

OP guffers_hump 19 Mar 2021
In reply to C Witter:

Ahh yes that looks like a nice reasonable scramble thanks.

In reply to guffers_hump:

the guide books have just been completely redone - https://www.cicerone.co.uk/scrambles-in-the-lake-district-south-1 and https://www.cicerone.co.uk/scrambles-in-the-lake-district-north-1

Scrambles which need climbing experience have been denoted as such. Generally gill scrambles of the same grade can feel harder than crag scrambles.

Too many options to list. Have a browse of the books.

OP guffers_hump 19 Mar 2021
In reply to tehmarks:

I'll reply to you but hopefully other people will also see this message.

As I have completely gone about this the wrong way, let me try and make amends.

I have done Sharp Edge, Striding Edge, Mickledore/Broad Stand, North Ascent of Tryfan, Crib Goch, Jacks Rake and a few others I sadly can't remember.

So all in all probably pretty beginner. But want to really move onto grade 2 scrambles.

Post edited at 09:10
 C Witter 19 Mar 2021
In reply to guffers_hump:

You might find The Bell (Grade-1), Low Water Beck (Grade-3) and Brim Fell Slabs (Grade-2), followed by the Old Man of Coniston and Dow Crag summits a nice day out - particularly on a warm day with low water levels, i.e. in the summer. Some sections of Low Water Beck are a bit serious, especially in poor conditions, but I think it's easy for grade 3 in good conditions.

Another good summer-time scramble is up Crinkle Gill and from there over Crinkle Crags to Bowfell. You can descend via the Band or via Hell Gill for added interest.

I'd also recommend walking up Yewbarrow, Red Pike and Scoat Fell to Pillar. It's worth checking out Pillar Rock and perhaps scrambling up Pisgah. If you have the necessary skills, you can scramble up to High Man at grade 3, but you have to be able to reverse the route and may need a rope to do so. Otherwise, you can carry on to the summit of Kirkfell, with a bit of scrambling up a loose gully to gain the top.

I think you can have a good day walking from Wasdale to Styhead, then traversing under the Napes. You can do the easier bits of the Climber's Traverse - maybe "Thread the Needle" if you dare. I'd recommend continuing to the White Napes for lots of "optional" scrambling to the summit of Gable, then descending via the col between Gable and Kirkfell.

Lord's Rake and the West Wall traverse on Scafell comes highly recommended, but I've never done it.

If you know how to use a rope or learn how to, some of the better Lakes scrambles and easy climbs open up at grade 3 - VDiff. Some of the gill scrambles are lovely, too, but these are sensitive environments, so respect the plants you find there.
 

Post edited at 09:49
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In reply to C Witter:

good advice there.

I'd add in easy terrace on Dow, Solid grade 2 with a big crag setting. The top is a bit grassy but I'd still give the route 2 stars.

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In reply to C Witter:

> Lord's Rake and the West Wall traverse on Scafell comes highly recommended, but I've never done it.

I'd rate this as quite/very serious. It's not very hard technically but it needs great care. My memory is that the final ascent of Deep Ghyll is quite unnerving, being very steep with only a rather bare coating of gravelly scree. Not nice with a heavy sack on your back.

Quite Very Serious is a new grade I've just invented, BTW. It works in the same nicely traditional way as Mild Very Severe.

Post edited at 11:16
OP guffers_hump 19 Mar 2021
In reply to C Witter:

Ok excellent, thanks for the info, this should hopefully be put to good use in May.

I have done Pillar from Red Pike then up Kirkfell crags. Good route.

OP guffers_hump 19 Mar 2021
In reply to paul_the_northerner:

Thanks this could be added in to a hike from Coniston with Long crag. Which would make for a great day out.

 C Witter 19 Mar 2021
In reply to guffers_hump:

Long Crag is nice and Easy Terrace is worthwhile, but they're not straightforward to link-up as they're on opposite sides of the Coppermines. From Long Crag I'd either head up to Wetherlam or to Lever's Water for a scramble on Great How. I'd head to Dow for Easy Terrace from the Walna Scar road, then continue from the summit to wherever else - e.g. perhaps Dow summit, Old Man, come down near Little How to Lever's Water. Another nice option is to access Dow from the Duddon - very picturesque approach.

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OP guffers_hump 19 Mar 2021
In reply to C Witter:

That's pretty much what I was thinking do a big loop round to Wetherlam then Swirl How along the ridge line then bag Old man then drop down to Goat's Water and do Easy Terrace. To finish do Brown Crag and drop back into Coniston.

Would I be correct in thinking that I won't be able to do Easy Terrace in May because of potentially nesting Peregrines?

Also to get to Brim Fell Slabs would that mean dropping down to Levers Water?

Post edited at 13:05
J1234 19 Mar 2021
In reply to guffers_hump:

> I have done Sharp Edge, Striding Edge, Mickledore/Broad Stand, North Ascent of Tryfan, Crib Goch, Jacks Rake and a few others I sadly can't remember.

My mentor who was a very very experienced fells man and old school climber would not scramble Broad Stand and even when I was climbing quite well always deterred me.

If your looking for a nice long day, look at the Duddon Valley to link up a few scrambles ending on Grey Friar, but, watch the scramble from Seathwaite Tarn, it can be tricky and I would suggest a rope for that bit, as does the guidebook IIRC

 C Witter 19 Mar 2021
In reply to guffers_hump:

That would be a big loop. Doable, but a lot in a day. I think there are more logical lines.

No peregrine restrictions on Dow: https://www.frcc.co.uk/bird-restrictions/

There are a few ways to Low Water, above which BFS starts. You can go via Little How and Lever's Water or from OMC or approach via Low Water Beck (3) or from below via a path you can pick up near The Bell (1). I think The Bell (1), LWB (3), BFS (2) and then drop down for Easy Terrace (2/3) would make a good day out. But, someone timid or less experienced might find that challenging, so make sure to think about your partner's capabilities, as well as your own.

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