Capel Curig - Crafnant path updates?

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 The Potato 20 Jan 2022

Has anyone been on the track from Capel Curig direction over to Crafnant lately? I head someone say that a lot of work had been done to it. Any photos?

Thanks

 jezb1 20 Jan 2022
In reply to The Potato:

If you’re on FB look up Mike Raine: Notes From the Hill (or something v similar!)

In reply to The Potato:

> Has anyone been on the track from Capel Curig direction over to Crafnant lately? I head someone say that a lot of work had been done to it. Any photos?

The BMC published the following article only yesterday, which includes a couple of pictures: https://www.thebmc.co.uk/snowdonia-path-upgrades-or-unnecessary-motorways-t...

Post edited at 16:07
 Tyler 20 Jan 2022
In reply to The Potato:

I went up from the Crafnant side before Christmas and there was no sign of activity, i might have a look again on Saturday. 
If the main purpose of this is to enable all terrain mobility scooters access then I’m all for it. 

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In reply to Tyler:

There is no work planned on the Crafnant side. 

The Capel side is being "upgraded" by being made into a wide, surfaced multi-user path similar to that now up Bwlch Maesgwm above Llanberis. 

There has been a lot of local concern about both the specific path works and about the lack of communication/consultation. (Apparently the decision to upgrade was a 'last minute' one due to availability of time-limited funding). These concerns have been raised with SNPA by BMC and others, and hopefully should lead to a better consultation process in future. 

As above - see Mike Raine's blog for a balanced view on the work. 

In reply to Ron Rees Davies:

Puts their vexatious planning policy on shaky ground, this. What about a 'last minute' club hut refurbishment??

 ChrisJD 21 Jan 2022
In reply to Ron Rees Davies:

You should see what Derbyshire County Council get up to with their 'maintenance' of Peak District trails & paths.

Latest shocking example on works through a SSSI:

http://peakdistrictmtb.org/alarming-work-on-pin-dale-by-derbyshire-county-c...

Thankfully, a rapid SM campaign by mountain bikers halted the works; loads of DCC wasted time & money, plus the remedial works will be tricky.

http://peakdistrictmtb.org/pin-dale-derbyshire-county-council-responds-halt...

And DCC want to have a go at Cave Dale! 

(I'll start a separate thread in Biking)

Post edited at 09:53
 Ramblin dave 21 Jan 2022
In reply to Ron Rees Davies:

> As above - see Mike Raine's blog for a balanced view on the work. 

Direct link here, to avoid the need to look him up on Faceache:
https://www.mikeraine.co.uk/post/to-repair-or-to-build-a-path-or-a-motorway

And yeah, it's generally good points. It's good that he mentions the traditional use of the route as a utilitarian way to church / chapel from Crafnant - I'm always a bit uneasy when people start acting like anywhere more than half a mile from a metalled road is One Of Our Last Great Untouched Wildernesses regardless of the historic context.

 guffers_hump 21 Jan 2022
In reply to ChrisJD:

That is awful, I suppose that'll be everybody cutting corners as per?

 ChrisJD 21 Jan 2022
In reply to Ramblin dave:

I've only ridden that trail (north to south) a handful of times in 30 years, but I remember it as having the feeling of being pretty remote (with it being so close to Capel C) and the trail being interesting riding.

(Strava says last time was 2015 - and I'm still in a Top-10, lol)

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 Bulls Crack 21 Jan 2022
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Is that what happened to the Foel Goch b-way I wonder

 Andy Johnson 21 Jan 2022
In reply to Ron Rees Davies:

> There is no work planned on the Crafnant side. 

Mike Raine's article says "The track is being worked on right now as far as the bwlch to the east of Crimpiau" but doesn't explain why they're stopping there. It seems an odd choice - does anyone have any insight into this? Anything to do with the boundary of the NNR? Or the steeper terrain on the descent?

If the track upgrade encourages more MTB traffic* then might this lead to greater erosion of the "unimproved" section of the path that continues down into the Crafnant?

(*I have no problem with mountain bikes, and walkers create erosion too.)

OP The Potato 21 Jan 2022
In reply to The Potato:

Ah bwgger, i had hoped that the news wasn't true. It was a good rough natural path, fun to run and ride. I only hope bad weather takes its toll rapidly.

 GCO 22 Jan 2022

This is interesting. As a climber who also has a 19 year old daughter who uses a wheelchair, I am often conflicted on such matters.

My first reaction is usually one of horror to such news. But increasingly now I find myself instantly wondering if I could push a wheelchair along the path. 

OP The Potato 22 Jan 2022
In reply to The Potato:

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one?

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 gethin_allen 22 Jan 2022
In reply to The Potato:

> The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one?


In this case you have to determine who's who.

I always think that these schemes in national parks will eventually kill the golden goose and drive away the original people who made these places popular. But then I don't know if we are the many or the few. Are we the people who the councils/authorities care about and want to attract or are the local communities making a living from the hoards of lightly equipped/not so mobile/less dedicated etc etc. who are happy to have another nice gentle path to go for a wander on?

I'm not really sure about this particular path as I struggle to see where exactly it goes. IMO nowhere with a great enough appeal that people will be keen to head over that way rather than to the great honey pot locations nearby and I can't see any obvious good circular walks nearby.

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

In the Lake District these are part of the process to urbanise the area and ensure the motorways can be seen on Google Earth, while completely destroying the character of the place, as with tree planting.

DC

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 Tyler 24 Jan 2022
In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

> Could not have got our feet wet if we tried.

It's not rained in this part of the world for a good while.

> It's a very niche set that could make it up and down all the steep inclines and deal with the uneven surface but couldn't get past the pebbles on the untouched part. 

There are mobility scooters that fit this niche and, besides, it wasn't all like the still untouched part. Obviously for this to be worthwhile then these scooters would need to be available here by some means so if SNPA have a plan to allow them on public transport or set up a scheme to enable people to hire them and use them on paths like this then it would be fantastic. Equally if there are others are encouraged out as a result of paths like this then that too is a good thing - this isn't some untracked wilderness but an agricultural landscape denuded of vegetation and with busy roads running nearby, you have to strike a balance.

I'm pretty unmoved by the bleating of mountain bikers (I am one) as the erosion they have caused on the East Lancs Moors where I used to live means they are not (as a group) coming at it with clean hands.

Post edited at 18:30
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 CantClimbTom 24 Jan 2022
In reply to gethin_allen:

Kill the golden goose? If you look at parking in the honeypot areas of Snowdonia in summer it doesn't look like they're anywhere close to killing the goose. For every person like me who seeks out remoter hills, there's five more wanting to conquer "Mount Snowdon" and get the T-shirt. I think they could knock down Joe Brown's and build a multi storey car park and tourism would only increase.

Edit That said, I'm in favour of opening access to mobility users if it can be done sensitively

Post edited at 18:41
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In reply to Tyler:

> these scooters would need to be available here by some means so if SNPA have a plan to allow them on public transport or set up a scheme to enable people to hire them and use them on paths like this then it would be fantastic.

It IS indeed fantastic!

https://www.snowdonia.gov.wales/visiting/snowdonia-for-all/tramper-hire

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 Tyler 24 Jan 2022
In reply to Ron Rees Davies:

That really is! Really heartened to see that and if this path upgrade is to get more of these out into the hill then its hard to argue against. Hopefully there'll be funding to extend the scheme.

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In reply to Tyler:

I'd be ok with that argument but for that fact that you'd tip over backwards if you tried to get up there on a mobility scooter. They haven't made it that accessible. Unless more work is planned, like I said, I'm struggling to see who could get up the new path but not the old one.

 Babika 24 Jan 2022
In reply to GCO:

> This is interesting. As a climber who also has a 19 year old daughter who uses a wheelchair, I am often conflicted on such matters.

> My first reaction is usually one of horror to such news. But increasingly now I find myself instantly wondering if I could push a wheelchair along the path. 

I walked along it yesterday. I think your daughter would struggle in a wheelchair. 

It's a very ugly track and I can't help thinking the £100k would be better spent on improving parking somewhere if the Snowdonia Authority are relaxed about spoiling the environment.

.

 Tyler 24 Jan 2022
In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

Yeah in fairness I could be wrong about it and it might be a complete cock up but I’m certainly not against it just because it’s almost a road and much more intrusive than what’s gone before. Even within a couple of miles of it there are parts of the park that are very infrequently travelled. So a couple of miles of track around one of the popular villages is something worth giving up to enable some user groups to enjoy Eryri

In reply to Tyler:

Yeah, I don't think I'm disagreeing with the principle of what you're saying, but they've ripped up acres of peat bog, drained a load of wetland habitat and made a steady track into an ugly wide road without making it any more accessible. It would be extremely exciting, possibly an all-out thrill ride in a scooter or wheelchair. They haven't made it passable for anyone less able. Not even close.

I don't understand what problem they've solved, and I can easily think of 20 better places they could have spent the money. It's baffling to me and nobody's explained it in a way that makes any goddamn sense.

Post edited at 22:53
 Mike Peacock 25 Jan 2022
In reply to Tyler:

>  So a couple of miles of track around one of the popular villages is something worth giving up to enable some user groups to enjoy Eryri

I'm quite conflicted here. As someone who used to live in N Wales I really loved that little path. Leaving Capel on a sunny spring morning, walking through the woods below Clogwyn Mawr and through to Crafnant or up to Crimpiau...it was a gem of a walk, and quiet. At the moment this new track looks awful, but I guess it will bed in over time.

However, there is already a good smattering of forestry tracks around Capel, mainly on the south side of the road, but more on the north side as you head east above Nyth Bran. These lead on to some nice lakes like Llyn Bychan and Llyn Goddionduon, and there are some good views in places. With a little vision an improved path could have been created leaving Capel but linking up with these (which lead all the way to Betws). That would have given a lot of access (a huge network of forestry tracks) for less money, letting people on mobility scooters get into the countryside, but without leading to conflict on the Crafnant/Crimpiau path.

I suppose it also depends if the path renovations are going all the way to Crafnant - do we know that? If they stop at the pass and the track leads nowhere it all seems a bit pointless.

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OP The Potato 25 Jan 2022
In reply to Mike Peacock:

My understanding is it's stops near the top

In reply to The Potato: 

https://community.thebmc.co.uk/GetFile.ashx?did=3721 

"4. There will be no work done on either the initial section from Capel Curig to the wooden bridge, or from the bwlch down to Llyn Crafnant."

 kevin stephens 30 Jan 2022
In reply to arjh: I suggest a 12 month permit for the green roaders, mud muppets crowd. That would soon return the path to a more challenging and interesting experience for walkers and mountain bikers

 rockcatch 30 Jan 2022
In reply to kevin stephens:

I went up there today from Capel Curig to Crafnant and Geirionydd. On the way back down to Capel Curig there were a number of scrambler bikes coming the other way. It's the first time I've seen any up there and I can't imagine the surface will cope that well with them.

In reply to rockcatch:

Really? That is a worrying development. I've never seen any there either, they're usually out the back of my place along with the green laners on the Capel to Dolwyddelan track.

 rockcatch 30 Jan 2022
In reply to Nicholas Livesey:

Yep, it was the gate around SH 725 582 where I saw them, and from the tracks it was clear they had come up from the gate opposite Joe Browns.

In reply to rockcatch:

FFS! So they've ruined it for mountain bikers and walkers but made it attractive to off road motorcyclists. Good work, SNPA, you bunch of f*cking idiots!

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