UKH

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2020-06-04/appeal-after-protected-buzzard-...

The moors have been fantastic this spring. The many different species of birds having such a dry and settled spring to nest and rear their young. 

But on the negative side the Chew has again been blighted by picnic litter, barbecue mess and subsequent moorland fires around Marsden and Dovestones. 

Then just as you begin so see Buzzard and Kite in the area, some brave man with a big gun shoots them out of the sky. Just to allegedly protect hand reared Grouse and Pheasant.

All we can do in the northern moorland areas of the Peak is keep reporting it and hopefully shooting on the moors will be banned.

In reply to Ian Carr:

It seems to have been particularly bad for wildlife on the Moscar estate which backs onto Stanage. 

In reply to Ian Carr:

Good to hear someone else appreciating our moorland in stead of writing it off as a "sterile desert". 

In reply to Ian Carr:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/peakdistrictclimbingpartners/permalink/2576...

In reply to thepodge:

They are well known for being f*ckers

In reply to Ian Carr:

It's over that way if I remember right that Adam Long saw someone shoot a buzzard whilst he was climbing. The police often get stick for not taking these things very seriously but it must be very hard to actually get evidence so it seems to carry on with impunity. Even if you witnessed it whilst out on your bike or climbing what can you do? Try and make a citizens arrest of someone who is literally carrying a firearm?

It's when the various trade bodies for shooting and gamekeeping come out and say "yes it is terrible, but a few bad apples... blah blah... we're guardians of the moors blah blah" that it gets really infuriating. I mean who else is blasting buzzards and harriers out of the sky over grouse moors than people who sell the grouse for shooting?

In reply to Ian Carr:

Tip of the iceberg I'm afraid.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-52667502

Most likely significantly worse than we know.

In reply to Ian Carr:

and poisoning: https://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2020/05/28/dead-buzzard-in-north-yorkshir...

In reply to Ian Carr:

Its also very bad in Yorkshire. There was a feature about the persecution of raptors in last Sundays Countryfile.

In reply to Ian Carr:

https://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordpress.com/

Despite the name covers the whole of the UK.

In reply to Matt Podd:

It's bad everywhere. Unfortunately things won't change until the law does and the estate owners are prosecuted for the actions of their employees.

The current situation, where it's always dismissed “a rogue keeper acting against my instructions” is the sort of excuse that even Dominic Cummings would be embarrassed to use. Raptors are being killed because that's what the estate owners are telling their staff to do. Does anyone seriously believe that someone whose job, and quite possibly his house, is dependent on the estate owner actually sits at home and thinks: “I know I'll be sacked and homeless because my boss is really committed to conservation, but f*** it, I'm off to shoot some Hen Harriers for a giggle”?

In reply to Ian Carr:

The constant refrain from moorland groups (who are just mouthpieces for gamekeepers) is that it is a few bad apples. We all know that's a lie - it's an orchard full of them.

Grouse shooting and wildlife crime go hand in hand. I suggest joining Moorland Monitors and the Hunt Investigation Team who are both highly active on social media trying to combat this particular virus.

In reply to Ian Carr:

Would be nice to see some persecution of gamekeepers instead. Where's PETA when you need them?

In reply to TobyA:

You also hear them back up their stance with the 'if it's so common why are there so few convictions' mantra.. surely they must know the chance of a keeper being seen/recorded shooting a raptor are slim to none. Absence of evidence does not equate to evidence of absence.

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In reply to Ian Carr:

there was a question from Hugh FW on more or less about pheasant biomass- with the 50+million releases every year, more than all other wild breeding birds combined! most don't get shot so may explain raptor increases?

In reply to Ian Carr:

https://huntinvestigationteam.org/moscar2020/

https://huntinvestigationteam.org/home/traps-of-the-moscar-estate/

https://huntinvestigationteam.org/moscar-investigation/

In reply to Ian Carr:

It is so sad that this still goes on. There was a little segment about raptor persecution in countryfile recently (as well as showing the problem they also had an interview with someone from a gamekeepers organisation who certainly said the right things but who knows how much is true). I hadn't really registered it as much a problem these days until I saw that, and read some of those links just now. 

I feel inspired to be a bit active in watching out for evidence of this sort of thing now actually.  Will certainly keep an eye out for gamekeeper activities and any traps etc next time I'm out on grouse moorland. 

In reply to Ian Carr:

There always seems to be plenty of those Fenn traps in and around Shining Clough, even adjacent to the tarmac path on the walk in.

In reply to AukWalk:

You might be interested in Snare Watch:

http://www.snarewatch.org/

In reply to cragtyke:

On the grouse moors I've worked on (building wind farms) there are Fenn traps placed every 10m or so along every track and across every burn. As long as they have a cover (even if its just some chicken wire) then they are deemed to be legal. If you are seen interfering with the traps the estate will come after you. The gamekeepers may possibly explain the error of your ways to you and they will pursue you through the courts. They generally take it very seriously.

Even when the land is signed over to the windfarm company the estates still say we are not supposed to interfere with the traps. And obviously we never do.

In reply to Harry Jarvis:

Thanks for the link, interesting to see where they've been found in the past, and what sort of things to expect. 

In reply to cragtyke:

Since April 1st Fenn traps are still legal for the trapping of weasels, rats and squirrels but not stoat. ( I think)

I look forward to a UKC campaign  against the trapping of grey squirrels, or even rats for that matter.

In reply to Tom Valentine:

The question isnt around legality its around the ability to restrict the target victims (leaving aside any morality questions).

To take greys. Possibly if our glorious guardians of the countryside werent busy butchering every alledged predator (aside from the guns who are known to kill purely for fun rather than food) pine martins would be able to recover. Whilst more research is needed evidence from Ireland and elsewhere indicates that greys lose their advantage over reds when an effective predator that the reds have evolved alongside is not artifically suppressed.

In reply to Ian Carr:

It would be so uplifting to see nature bounce back if these estates suddenly became reserves. Still managed, but with the aim of diversity in mind.  

In reply to mick taylor:

Hardly surprising that these bastards would take the opportunity of having no-one around to do what they want.

I think I might even have predicted it weeks ago...

In reply to Ridge:

Don't be silly; it's just the sort of excuse Cummings would use, and laugh in our faces whilst using it.

In reply to captain paranoia:

I still wonder if he knew Barnard Castle was an archaic almost forgotten phrase that meant a pathetic excuse.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/26/barnard-castle-means-pathetic-excuse-durham-...

In reply to Tom Valentine:

The only benefit of knowing that some self-righteous eejits think that they can meddle with legally set Fenn traps is knowing that at least one of them won’t know how the safety catch works and will get a rather nasty surprise. 

In reply to Phil1919:

You mean like the council’s shining example conservation, mowing heather on Ilkley Moor during nesting season? 

In reply to Ian Carr:

Interesting to note that ALL of the "brood managed"  hen harriers - the ones taken from grouse moor nests to be reared and released elsewhere- have failed/died/ disappeared

https://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordpress.com/2020/06/08/the-five-brood-m...

In reply to Fozzy:

You mean where they said they werent aware of it and notified the police and natural england.

In reply to UKC Forums:

Write or email to your MP and complain or forward links like the one from Raptor Persecution to your MP.  I do it all the time.

I do get replies sometimes.

Cynics - and I"m one - say it won't make a blind difference.  But if this ever gets discussed by MPs or brought to their attention, they can't help but note or be aware that its not just one or two bodies such as the RSPB who are bothered or be taken in by whatever excuses or flannel they are given by supporters of shooting estates.  Also if one of the shooting lobbyists say to your MP that it only happens rarely your MP will know from the  emails which have been sent that this is not true.  etc.,.

In reply to Phil1919:

I'm all for diversity, that's why I like to see the grey squirrel in my garden.

In reply to Ian Carr:

Sabotage the apparatus of grouse moor management whenever possible.

Direct action is needed against rogue estates.

In reply to Fozzy:

It's easy to smash up Fenn traps. I encourage everyone to do it.

In reply to Fozzy:

At least they weren't actively killing raptors.

In reply to Tom Valentine:

You don't really get what I mean.

In reply to Fozzy:

I don't know about Ilkley Moor ; its out of my area, but yes, the council here needs to change its ways. They employ contractors.........we need to get Cumbria Wildlife trust for example actively managing the towns green spaces. 

In reply to Phil1919:

I think I do. I think you mean the limited notion of diversity which excludes non indigenous species. Apologies if I'm wrong.

In reply to Billhook:

 

It was sort of discussed under the guise of the petition to ban grouse moors. It wasnt one of westminsters most upstanding hours.

For those in Scotland might be worth writing to your MSP. There is going to be a vote around restricting the mass killing of hares.

https://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordpress.com/2020/06/10/scottish-parliam...

In reply to Tom Valentine:

Limited? No I was wrong. I don't get what you mean.

In reply to Phil1919:

it's a bit hard to say until you tell me the sort of diversity you had in mind with your idea of "managed moorland". 

In reply to Phil1919:

Interesting. Fozzys story is based on a pro shooting  blogpost. It seems to be a bit more complicated

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/country-and-farming/row-breaks-out-over-cou...

In reply to Tom Valentine:

Sounds like a trap. As I said, I'm not that familiar with Ilkley Moor issues. But the book describing the success of Knepp estate I find very convincing for example. Nature doing its bit with the help of management by the landowners.

Where moorland is concerned, like many others on here, I don't understand why trees are so persecuted  for starters, in the name of conservation.  I haven't noticed many grey squirrels on large parts of the Barbon estate for this reason.

In reply to Phil1919:

I believe the council used to lease the shooting rights to the Ilkley moor but due to burning of heather and pressure from the local public they didn’t renew the leases.

In reply to toad:

And one of their arguments is that id you don' intensively manage it it catches fire. It catches fire because it's easily accessible and gets set alight. 

The same argument is being used by the Walshaw estate who want  to create tracks into previously inaccessible (by vehicle)  moorland and blanket bog....it will help if it catches fire hint hint. 

In reply to Bulls Crack:

Walshaw has been a sorry saga for years. Failure of estate to, failure of legislation and failure of the regulator

In reply to toad:

Being a bit of a cynic, but why wouldn't it surprise me if someone from the hunting fraternity was responsible for the mowing in the hope that it would make the council look irresponsible and therefore people would ask for the licences to be restored...

In reply to FactorXXX:

As I mentioned a bit earlier, I'm realising that the local council here in Kendal, at different levels, have little understanding of the issues. I'm quite amazed. They have to work to health and safety guidelines etc I realise, but  they employ contractors with strimmers and stand on mowers to do the work that should be given to gardeners or the wildlife trust for example. People who would enjoy their work intrinsically and can educate and involve others.  Hopefully the management of Ilkley Moor will evolve and become more successful.

In reply to toad:

I know only too well