UKH

I'm planning on walking the West Highland Way next week over five days, wild camping along the way. I'm very keen to do it with a tarp - not just for weight savings, but for minimum faff and because I find bivying with a tarp infinitely more satisfying than being cocooned inside a tent.

The problem is the midges. Am I going to badly regret not having a tent, or should it be alright with judicious application of Smidge and selection of camping location? The handy 'Midge Forecast' on the Smidge website (https://www.smidgeup.com/midge-forecast/) suggests we might only run into problems towards the end of the route...but I'm taking that with a heavy pinch of salt.

Thoughts?

I'd be hoping for minimum wind speeds of 15mph. It will be midge-mageddon in anything else. 

I took a lightweight tent last time and every time I cowered from the wee beggars I thanked my foresight I hadn't tarped. It also meant that I could camp anywhere even if pegging points were scarse (something I learned the hard way in Snowdonia many years ago)

ive done that walk. you will be eaten alive! i did find that 10 pints of guiness and a 3/4 bottle of scotch puts them off though.

Definitely not - you might get lucky but I just wouldn't chance it, the reality is too horrendous!

Back in the 90's I woke up in a 1 man bivi tent on the East side of Loch Lomond.  It was a fine but still midsummer morn. I became aware of a high pitched whining sound. It was the audible chorus of 3 million blood thirsty midges outside the single goretex skin of the tent. 

It took me 15 minutes to take 6 pegs out, having to run 200m loops to come in and remove the pegs 1 by 1. 

Brings to mind that I had the single worst 'midgying' I've ever had just up the road in Glen Falloch one June on the WHW. Two of us and gear crammed into a one-and-a-half man tent because we couldn't get the other up fast enough. Flysheet fast turning black and tell-tale high pitched whining all night.

Rule one of camping with midges is to always have the repellent inside the tent and apply it liberally before undoing any zips!

Yes.

Yes.

Rather you than me.

More reasonably... you will be utterly miserable unless you get *very* lucky.  Loch Lomond; Rannoch Moor; Glen Coe; Glen Nevis.  August.  Warm but with recent rain.

At the very least you need to leave contact numbers so we can find (what's left of) your body.

It's conclusive: tent it is!

Also a hat with a midge net for sure and repellent or gloves to save your hands when you are packing the tent up in the morning surrounded by a cloud of the b*ggers.

Carry some mosquito coils; they weigh very little and a couple burned around the tent entrance will keep midges away. Burned inside the tent, all midges will die within 15 minutes but your kit will smell smokey and you will get bronchitis. 

Don't do it.

I had an awful night with the midges last week and that was in a tent with a mesh inner. Without the inner it would have been unbearable.

Just watch this:  youtube.com/watch?v=WzUlj6eTehA&

Agree with the above. If you had been doing the WHW in June than you might, just might have got away with it. It was very dry in a lot of Scotland and, in the NW at least, the midge numbers were well down.

However, after the recent rain they will be out in force.

Dave

Do it in the winter! Its a great walk then, no midges, hardly any people, snow covered hills.

May is usually a great month in Scotland and the midges won't be around.

Heed the advice of others here. Midges will devour your carcass like a flock of vultures if you don't have a tent. 

Must have items for the WHW in warm weather - 

• Avon Skin so soft and DEET insect repellent
• Thin gloves/lining gloves to protect hands
• Broad rimmed hat to keep midge net from face
• Midge net
• Thin long sleeved T-shirt - long on the back to prevent them biting your back and builders crack (or Midge jacket and a t-shirt might do)
• light material long trousers

Really? Are you, and others, not over egging the midge situation?

Yes, there will be midge's, yes, they bite, yes a tent will offer more protection than a tarp, but a tarp will serve its purpose well on the WHW - although weather forecast isn't the best for it, being warm and wet albeit the forecast winds will help get rid of pesky midges.

There's a little bay on the East coast of Jura which is called "the bay of the midges" but in Gaelic.

The story goes that centuries ago a raiding party landed in that bay with the intention of ransacking a nearby hamlet. On landing they came across a local. Not wanting him to run off and raise the alarm they gave him a bit of a kicking and left him tied up while they went off pillaging.

When they got back the unfortunate local had died, killed by the clouds of midges that were present that day.

Have you ever actually been there?  

One of these is helpful.  Not joking.  https://www.cotswoldoutdoor.com/p/lifesystems-mosquito-and-midge-head-net-E...

I have one, and used it.  

Yes I have

That's great

Good for you.

Have you also tried one of these? https://www.firebox.com/Chocolate-Teapot/p7499

No, we're not. 

The tent is being packed, the tarp staying at home, the Smidge has been bought but I'm going to see how I fare without a net. I trust if you all don't hear from me by the 19th you'll send out a search party for my skeleton.

I'd love to walk it in winter (and may well come back this winter), but a work colleague was desperate to get away for a week and it seemed to tick the boxes; good rehabilitation for me, a good challenge for him and a few days away from civilisation for both of us.

Just reading your Heading made my skin start to itch.......!

Was it a) winter or b) raining heavily or c) a long time ago ?  

How do you get them to drink it?

They're Scottish midges, so you need to offer it to them in nips, with a half pint of Heavy before each one.

I've got a 1 man Sea to Summit mosquito net. It hangs easily under my tarp and does the job. You don't get so much space under it as with just the tarp, but it makes tarping possible in mosquito or midge areas in summer. 

If using DEET make sure you don't get it on your spectacles as it will dissolve the plastic (learned this the hard way).

I remember camping up by Loch Skeen near Moffat about 25 years ago. My mate Whisky Dave had a nightmare. We had tea and a few beers in comfort sat outside the tent before I popped up the hills at the back and was watching a Peregrine for an hour or so. Below I could see him walking away from the tent and dropping his kecks a hygienic distance away. He began wildly flapping his arms, pulled up his kecks and dove in the tent.

As I descended back to the tent to see what was happening, I heard an eye watering scream. It lives with me  to this day. Fearing the worst I opened the tent door but was greeted by Whisky dabbing his sphincter with a damp cloth. 

For Sure, deodorant is not the best thing to spray on a midge bitten rim!

And when squirting it onto your hands at night for application, make sure it is pointing at at your hands and not directly at your eye. It stings. A lot. But, after prolonged rinsing, I did not, to my relief dissolve my eye ball.

I totally understand why you wrote that marsbar but more specific questions for subtle might be:

Have you ever encountered a cloud of midgies so thick and dense that you had real difficulty breathing?

Have you ever lost the power of rational thought and found that the whole purpose of your being was to escape your tormentors even if that involved serious harm?

I've had the first a few times. The second only once when they descended on us on The Needle and I genuinely had to remind myself to place gear rather than just race upwards in an attempt to escape. 

So to add to my previous post, we're not exaggerating.

Yes. While camped not far from Sligachan some years ago I got 40+ bites in the time it took to empty my bladder. My entire skin felt like it was on fire. I feel itchy again just typing this.

I seriously considered jumping off Tear at Pollubh during an evening solo because I was inhaling them and I couldn't see too well either, just relentless. Usually I can remain calm and functional for as long as I need to when under midge attack but this was one occasion when resolve nearly abandoned me and gambling my ankles seemed like a reasonable course of action. Thankfully I got a grip and made it to the top where I had an epic swearing fit.

It is difficult if not impossible to describe the sensation of being suffocated by midgies to anyone who hasn't experienced it.

very good decision........

That's exactly what I'm talking about.

Hi there I’ve just returned from the west highland way there was only a issue with midges when we wild camped by the river at kings house they were horrible I was told to use skin so soft (Avon) but never worked for me but I know people who swear by it iam thinking of using tarp Nxt year good luck ????

I've been in Scotland  all week and amazingly very little trouble from midgies so far.

This morning parking up near Rannoch Moor was bad for about 10 minutes whilst getting the hill walking gear on but after that very tame. I have only put midge spray on twice in the last week.

You might get lucky but personally I wouldn't chance it!!

Seriously, take the midge net !  It's the first thing I would pack, mine goes in the sac end of May and remains there till its safe again.

I was definitely not half-way up a HS, but I can recall the sensation of them crowding in around the eyes, down inside the ears, crawling in nostrils and getting sucked in further - all at once. A little bit of hell, really.

Have been in Scotland for the last 2 weeks and it is weirdly almost midge-free! And I can confirm this as have just been camping with tarp and hammock for the last week. I had the hammock mossy net for the first 2 nights and then ditched it.
A local friend who has lived here all his life claims that hes never known a summer like it

Some people seem to have a body chemistry that naturally repels midges.

The scientific name for this phenomenon is 'lucky bastard'.

You may be one of them.

I thought the correct name was Troll?

We have bought a building plot in the Trossachs and part of the plan is a midge magnet so that we can sit out on those warm still evenings. 

And yet other people are reporting pretty much normal midge levels.

I know someone who doesn't get bitten, but they complain about them as much as anyone just because they don't like them crawling all over them! I don't think they realise how lucky they are.

I think some people get bitten but the bites don't itch (almost as lucky). 

I can't stand wearing a net - I just apply loads of repellent so they don't bite. I find a net as irritating as midges crawling on me.

I'm lucky in that ticks hardly ever bite me though.

A fair few managed to hitch a lift in my car from Glencoe yesterday following a hasty midge fest change of T shirt and footwear. Most were forcefully ejected after driving a few miles with the windows down. The remainder died of hypothermia when I cranked up the air con.   

I find that if I'm taking antihistamine tablets for hay fever then midge bites don't swell up and itch nearly as much.    The combined hat+net things are also good because the wide brim of the hat keeps the net away from your face.

Agreed- most likely against medical advice but if there’s a risk of midges I’ll often pop one prophylactically in the morning- won’t stop them biting but no itching.

Also, this year I’ve found horseflies/cleggs to be a much bigger problem. More than one friend has ended up on a course of antibiotics when a bit has still been spreading 2days later. 

I can't remember ever having a tick bite either. Clegs on the other hand...

God, the clegs in June were horrific! I used up about half a bottle of Smidge per day on my clothing to try to stop them biting me through it!

Toby, have you got the s2s Nano mosquito net (https://seatosummitusa.com/collections/camping-tarps-shelters/products/nano..., or the standard one (https://seatosummitusa.com/collections/camping-tarps-shelters/products/mosq...)?  I'm wondering if the Nano has fine enough mesh for Scottish midges or not.

Just finished, albeit without the friend I set off with. I can confirm that there are virtually no midges about at the minute, though for a couple of days they would have been somewhat hampered by the aggressive drizzle.

Hmm, not sure but think it's the latter. I've used it mainly in Finland and Norway so with mosquitoes... Can't imagine it wouldn't work for midges though? 

I imagine it had more to do with the wind.

In fact, I think that when people say this is a low midge summer what is actually going on is that it's been a windy summer. They're still there, ready to pounce when that wind drops.

I was on Skye for a week earlier this summer - no wind and no midges (bivvying in the Cuillins and generally being outdoors dawn till dusk) - the horsefly in Glen Sligahan were horrible though. So not as simple as a 'windy summer'.

They're probably less bad in the Cuillin than other places due to the lack of vegetation.

That's the aggressive part!

If it's that bad a tarp is better ventilated than a tent.

I got midged packing up the tent on two mornings on the WHW in June.  The rest of the time was fine, I had a midge net hat and the only thing that wasn't covered was my hands.   I got so many bites on the back of my hands over those few minutes of vulnerability they were swollen up for a couple of weeks after the trip.   Midges are definitely still there and waiting to pounce!

well midges are smaller than mosquitos... i suspect the heavyweight version works fine for them, but presumably they've saved weight in the Nano version by using less material.  which may mean bigger holes...

Right - I wondered if it was the other way round, smaller holes on the nano. I think there was only one model when I bought mine so didn't read the descriptions carefully enough!

Not WHW but no shortage of midges in Deeside last weekend.  Once you started moving, you didn't stop.

It wasn't Mullardoch levels.  That being the trip where we were camping at the Mullardoch dam with the view of attempting the Munro round, but suffered a serious attack at 2am.  We had to flee the campsite, driving up and down the Glen Cannich road in a dismayed, bewildered struggle to figure out what to do, because the tent had become uninhabitable after clouds of the buggers had followed me in.  The air was crawling with them.  There were more midges than air molecules.  Eventually we fled to the north and climbed Ben Klibreck instead.  We thought we were saved, in a way. Had the wind kept up and then dropped the night we were meant to be camping at the far end of the loch, we would have been 20k from civilization and having the same problem. If I wanted someone to confess to a crime they did or didn't commit, I'd tie them up at Loch Mullardoch on a still August evening.