Stop littering

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First off for the people who don’t like me piss off.

Anyway now that all the dick heads have left let me get into this rant.

So this is something what is disgusting. people need to stop littering on mountains you’re making these amazing mountains a littering spot which is not on. 

And I'm afraid these beautiful mountains will turn into Mount Everest with all the litter there now fortunately it hasn’t got that bad. But if people carry on it will.

So when I see rubbish on the floor I put it in my bag and put the rubbish in the bin. And I encourage everyone here to do so as well.

27
In reply to Cneifion Arête:

Absolutely. Have a ‘like’...

 Cornish boy 19 Aug 2020
In reply to Cneifion Arête:

I can’t stand litterbugs either. Good on you for doing your bit and picking some up when you see it. Perhaps we could all do a bit more of this?

I’ve done a fair bit of mountain biking on the Malvern Hills since lockdown eased and have been disgusted with the amount of litter in this beautiful spot. Never seen it that bad. I don’t understand why some people don’t just take it home with them or put it in a bin. 

Keep up the good work CA. 

3
In reply to Cneifion Arête:

Now all inclusive package holidays are off limits I think a lot of non mountain people are ending up in the hills. Just a theory. 

4
 Dax H 19 Aug 2020
In reply to Phantom Disliker:

Regardless of someone being a "mountain person" or not there is no excuse for littering. Anyone who is capable of taking something somewhere is capable of bringing it back again. Anyone who thinks "I have done with this crisp packet and pop can I shall just drop it here" be it on a mountain top or in a city center is just scum who should be shot on sight for the good of the species. 

 girlymonkey 19 Aug 2020
In reply to Cneifion Arête:

This has been my rant of the summer and I have basically  adopted a local reservoir to keep clean.

However, having picked up two broken walking poles which someone left in the Loch Avon basin earlier this week, I was thinking about how often you do see broken walking poles abandoned. I have concluded that mountain people possibly need to get off their high horses on this one! 

We picked them up while looking for a lost phone, which we never found. So more litter 😣 

Well done for picking it up, never stop making noise about it as we all need to do better!

In reply to Cneifion Arête:

I think you're preaching to the choir.

 planetmarshall 19 Aug 2020
In reply to Phantom Disliker:

> Now all inclusive package holidays are off limits I think a lot of non mountain people are ending up in the hills. Just a theory. 

The implied elitism aside, If you think the cause of this problem is purely down to people who normally go on package holidays I think you are being incredibly naive.

"Mountain People" still manage to clog up country lanes with their campervans for the remainder of the year. The only thing that's changed recently is the volume.

 elliot.baker 19 Aug 2020
In reply to Dax H:

I hear you with this one! I think for most of us it's a simple case of we cannot comprehend what is going through someone's head when they finish with something and simply drop the packaging like you might blow a soap bubble into the wind, or how you could be driving along eating a McDonald's, be finished with it and throw the whole meal out of the window. It's such an alien concept to us, so morally different you can't even relate to it or understand what would be going through their mind.

My friend pointed out that you can accidentally drop litter as well sometimes - without knowing - which I recognise and wonder when I sometimes see some tiny scrap of litter in the middle of nowhere.

Post edited at 14:53
 elliot.baker 19 Aug 2020
In reply to planetmarshall:

hehe yeah I like package holidays but I won't litter or leave a whole campsite's worth of equipment by the roadside.

 GDes 19 Aug 2020

I was once in a (men's) public toilet, and some graffiti read "wanted: woman with big t*#ts". Underneath somebody had written "I think you might be advertising in the wrong place".

I think you might be advertising in the wrong place. 

In reply to GDes:

Hmm I’m now wondering what type of place u were at 😏

2
In reply to planetmarshall:

Implied elitism? A 'Mountain Person' wouldn't litter Scafell or Everest and yet this happens. Just because a person is on a mountain, this doesn't let them into the club, it's an outlook. And those who fetishize campervans are as guilty.

In reply to Dax H:

> Anyone who is capable of taking something somewhere is capable of bringing it back again. Anyone who thinks "I have done with this crisp packet and pop can I shall just drop it here" be it on a mountain top or in a city center is just scum who should be shot on sight for the good of the species. 

A £50 fine might be more appropriate?

3
In reply to elliot.baker:

> My friend pointed out that you can accidentally drop litter as well sometimes - without knowing - which I recognise and wonder when I sometimes see some tiny scrap of litter in the middle of nowhere.

Guilty. It took me a while to realise that one of my backpacks has 2 inch long gaps at the bottom of the mesh side pockets. I would walk along, and if I saw bits of litter would diligently pick them up and stuff them in the side pockets to take home. Little did I know that any of the smaller stuff was just falling back out half mile down the path. I only realised this when a friend with the same bag told me an identical story!

 Dave the Rave 19 Aug 2020
In reply to Cneifion Arête:

It’s not just mountains that matter.

In reply to Dave the Rave:

AGFM!

(All Geographical Features Matter)

In reply to Dave the Rave:

Yes I know that 

 Dave the Rave 19 Aug 2020
In reply to Cneifion Arête:

> Yes I know that 

But it’s MICE that will suffer. Save the MICE.

 Dax H 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Phantom Disliker:

> A £50 fine might be more appropriate?

Nope, shoot on sight. The kind of person who just dumps their rubbish anywhere they like is the kind of person who has zero thought for their actions so society as a whole would be better off without them.

Harsh but fair

2
 Dax H 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Stuart Williams:

That is not really littering though, that is redistribution of litter that is already there and to a lesser extent as well. I wouldn't shoot you for that. 

I littered yesterday by accident. I opened my van door and the wind got my work sheet (list of jobs in an excel sheet) and away it went. I chased it, A because I don't like to litter and B because I need it but it was away over the 8 foot fence and lost.

Accidents happen. 

1
Andy Gamisou 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Dax H:

> Nope, shoot on sight. The kind of person who just dumps their rubbish anywhere they like is the kind of person who has zero thought for their actions so society as a whole would be better off without them.

> Harsh but fair

Snipers at Stanage?  Wonder if the PDNPA has the budget....

Andy Gamisou 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Dax H:

> I littered yesterday by accident. I opened my van door and the wind got my work sheet (list of jobs in an excel sheet) and away it went. I chased it, A because I don't like to litter and B because I need it but it was away over the 8 foot fence and lost.

This is quite funny in the context of your previous post . I can imagine the sniper tracking you as you go after the paper saying to him/her self: "don't get it, don't get it".  Then at the end when your chase was in vain: "yup, didn't get it". Followed by the head shot.

> Accidents happen. 

Possibly what the sniper's defence would have been.

In reply to Cneifion Arête:

Litter is bad. But the more problematic and important issue is the  production of it in the first place. 

The vast majority of litter is plastics. Plastics are found in the oceans, in sea life and in our gut.

We in the UK export a lot of our waste plastics to poorer countries. We don't want to deal with it. 

People should not leave litter around, it is anti social but it is the tip of the iceberg. A couple of decades ago, our local headteacher realising there was a litter problem with the schoolkids in the local streets went to the source of the problem to see if he could negotiate some sort of solution. Tesco said its not our problem. 

Maybe when all of us are buried in the stuff up to our necks, we might decide that making plastics without thinking about its whole life cycle is not right. 

 Graeme G 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Dax H:

> I littered yesterday by accident.

An admission of guilt. How would you like to be shot? 

 Phil1919 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Heartinthe highlands:

Yes, I think thats the thing to move on to. Don't buy litter in the first place. Fresh produce, home made sandwiches, food carried in re useable containers, re useable water bottles carried, reusable coffee mugs carried for journey to mountains. Even if the rubbish is taken out and put into bins, its got to go somewhere. 

 DerwentDiluted 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Andy Gamisou:

> This is quite funny in the context of your previous post . I can imagine the sniper tracking you as you go after the paper saying to him/her self: "don't get it, don't get it".  Then at the end when your chase was in vain: "yup, didn't get it". Followed by the head shot.

> Possibly what the sniper's defence would have been.

"We got the bear. The bear is down, repeat the bear is down.

I think that's a Wookie

Is a Wookie a Bear?"

 felt 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Graeme G:

> I littered yesterday by accident.

>> An admission of guilt. How would you like to be shot? 

We don't wheel out the ultimate sanction for litterslaughter, I don't think. We're still a humane society.

Removed User 20 Aug 2020
In reply to girlymonkey:

> I have concluded that mountain people possibly need to get off their high horses on this one! 

If outdoors enthusiasts sent a fraction of the time they spend doing their preferred activity it would be a start. It's not just about litter picking. Path maintenance, bothy work parties and rebuilding walls. I reckon many folk think the chuffin' fairies do these tasks. How many on here have actually given anything back to the mountain environment, other than pay a subscription to the chosen organisation? 

1
 Graeme G 20 Aug 2020
In reply to felt:

> >> An admission of guilt. How would you like to be shot? 

> We don't wheel out the ultimate sanction for litterslaughter, I don't think. We're still a humane society.

Are we able to have ‘degrees’ of being shot? A sliding scale of injury, perhaps? True DaxH didn’t say ‘shot to death’ just ‘shot’.....an interesting thought 💭 

 Dax H 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Andy Gamisou:

> This is quite funny in the context of your previous post . I can imagine the sniper tracking you as you go after the paper saying to him/her self: "don't get it, don't get it".  Then at the end when your chase was in vain: "yup, didn't get it". Followed by the head shot.

I would like to think discretion would be used, someone chasing a crisp bag that gets away is different to Mr or Mrs I'm don't with this, let's just drop it here. 

 Dax H 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Graeme G:

> Are we able to have ‘degrees’ of being shot? A sliding scale of injury, perhaps? True DaxH didn’t say ‘shot to death’ just ‘shot’.....an interesting thought 💭 

Head shots all the way, cull them from society for the good of us all. 

 Dax H 20 Aug 2020
In reply to DerwentDiluted:

> "We got the bear. The bear is down, repeat the bear is down.

> I think that's a Wookie

> Is a Wookie a Bear?"

Defiantly candidate for post of the week. 

In reply to Removed UserDeleted bagger:

> If outdoors enthusiasts spent a fraction of the time they spend doing their preferred activity it would be a start.

You are right. It is incumbent certainly in Lakes for everyone to carry a bracken stick or scythe, bin liner for litter, then clear out drains and gullies on paths. Just don't walk on by. How many dog walkers do you see collecting litter? They go out twice a day usually, often making a mess of the paths, yet they are best placed to pick up litter.

DC

 Dax H 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Heartinthe highlands:

> Litter is bad. But the more problematic and important issue is the  production of it in the first place. 

This is a big problem. The photo is of a Bluetooth headset I bought today. 

There is a 2 part cardboard box with a sleeve over it, foam stuck inside, plastic case with 2 spare ear buds held in a foam divider in a cardboard tray. 

Under the tray was 6 more ear buds, a USB cable in a plastic bag and an instruction booklet. 

I will probably keep 1 or 2 spare ear buds, the rest of the crap will go in the bin. 

 Graeme G 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Dax H:

> Head shots all the way, cull them from society for the good of us all. 

You do realise the irony of your post, don’t you?

1. Shoot everyone who drops litter

2. Admit you dropped litter

3. ???? 

I have to say I admire your level of sacrifice you’re prepared to make for the cause.

 Dax H 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Graeme G:

Not quite, I admitted to accidentally dropping litter that blew away before I could grab it. 

I'm talking about the dickheads why just dump crap wherever they go. 

Having another go with the packaging photo


 Graeme G 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Dax H:

Ah, you CLAIM it was an accident. Do you have evidence to support that. All we have is a written admission of guilt. Off to the firing line with you. 😉

 planetmarshall 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Phantom Disliker:

> Implied elitism? A 'Mountain Person' wouldn't litter Scafell or Everest and yet this happens. Just because a person is on a mountain, this doesn't let them into the club, it's an outlook. And those who fetishize campervans are as guilty.

Everest has been littered by "Mountain People" for nearly 100 years. Basically by everyone who went up with an oxygen bottle.

 jethro kiernan 20 Aug 2020
In reply to planetmarshall:

Everest The ultimate fly camping destination .

 veteye 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Dax H:

What will happen with your manmade seat covers when they wear out? (From the photo). Will they be binned too? How long will they then take to degrade? Maybe they can be donated to help form a modern day "shoddy" or similar composite material?

 Ridge 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Graeme G:

> Are we able to have ‘degrees’ of being shot? A sliding scale of injury, perhaps? True DaxH didn’t say ‘shot to death’ just ‘shot’.....an interesting thought 💭 

The media used to keep using the term “shoot to kill policy”, which seems to imply “shoot to mildly inconvenience” or “shoot to sting a bit” policies are options.

 Ridge 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Dave Cumberland:

> You are right. It is incumbent certainly in Lakes for everyone to carry a bracken stick or scythe, bin liner for litter, then clear out drains and gullies on paths. 

Can non-indigenous locals join in too? 😉

 Flinticus 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Dave Cumberland:

>  How many dog walkers do you see collecting litter? They go out twice a day usually, often making a mess of the paths, yet they are best placed to pick up litter.

I see myself do this all the time. I am probably 70% responsible for the woods in Pollok Park being largely free of tins and plastic.

Never seen a cyclist or jogger stop to pick up rubbish on the paths

1
In reply to Flinticus:

> >  How many dog walkers do you see collecting litter? They go out twice a day usually, often making a mess of the paths, yet they are best placed to pick up litter.

> I see myself do this all the time. I am probably 70% responsible for the woods in Pollok Park being largely free of tins and plastic.

> Never seen a cyclist or jogger stop to pick up rubbish on the paths

And Ridge, yes and well done folks. 😃

 Flinticus 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Removed UserDeleted bagger:

> If outdoors enthusiasts sent a fraction of the time they spend doing their preferred activity it would be a start. It's not just about litter picking. Path maintenance, bothy work parties and rebuilding walls. I reckon many folk think the chuffin' fairies do these tasks. How many on here have actually given anything back to the mountain environment, other than pay a subscription to the chosen organisation? 

What's wrong with giving a subscription or funding? I work, I get paid, I donate, work gets done: effectively my work is allowing the other work to be done. Without these donations, few , if anything, would get done.

I pick up litter (we all do on here) but is me driving from central Glasgow to a bothy work party any more virtuous than donating to the MBA and having some retired duffer whose got DIY skills, time, energy and is more local do the work? If I ever get to retire, or work part-time even, I would love to join a work party. As long as its within a reasonable drive.

Post edited at 12:35
Removed User 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Flinticus:

> What's wrong with giving a subscription or funding? I work, I get paid, I donate, work gets done: effectively my work is allowing the other work to be done. Without these donations, few , if anything, would get done.

> I pick up litter (we all do on here) but is me driving from central Glasgow to a bothy work party any more virtuous than donating to the MBA and having some retired duffer whose got DIY skills, time, energy and is more local do the work? If I ever get to retire, or work part-time even, I would love to join a work party. As long as its within a reasonable drive.

Well, if it assuages your conscience then it works for you.

I'm sure there are plenty of opportunities within easy of most metropolitan areas. Many tasks don't require a high level of skill. Instruction is always available. Basically anyone who can make a cup tea would be considered a valued member of a bothy workparty. Surely a couple of days a year wouldn't be an inconvenience?

 Trangia 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Cneifion Arête:

My theory is that there is a substantial sector of society, mainly city and town dwellers, who don't even think about littering, it just doesn't occur to them that dropping litter is anti social. This is because they live and work in urban environments which have regular street sweeping and street cleaning services which they are paying for through council tax and business rates. If they discard unwanted used articles on the ground it very soon "vanishes" and is not considered a problem. They live in an "out of sight out of mind" set and over the generations they have become so conditioned by the services that they cease to even think about it.

Rural areas, which include beauty spots, have not been so fortunate and are poorly serviced by way of general cleaning of public areas, which means that those born and bred in non urban environments have had to learn over the generations that if they don't want to see and live amongst litter and rubbish they have to deal with it themselves, and the cheapest and easiest way of doing this is to take unwanted litter home with them for disposal.

Obviously these observations are generalisations but I think they go a long way towards explaining why many people litter without so much as a second thought or twinge of guilt.

 Ridge 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Trangia:

I think it's possible that you're over generalising. During the lockdown there was a huge increase in fly tipping in our local (rural) area. The fact a lot of the rubbish was bagged up in feed sacks and contained 25l drums of hydraulic oil etc all points to it being local in origin.

 Trangia 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Ridge:

Ah, same in my area, but I think there is a fairly simple explanation. The tips were all closed for self drive by local councils during lockdown,, and people being people, didn't want manky rubbish lying about in their own gardens and homes. No excuse whatsoever, but the councils would only take a dustbin from each house, excess was rejected by the binmen. It's a pity that the councils didn't think that one through, and show willingness to accept excess bags.

Even in normal times fly tipping is a problem which could be reduced if councils waived the fees for "non domestic waste". I know it's an added income for councils, but I wonder if that is not off set by the excessive cost to councils of going around the county clearing away fly tipping.. Far better accept that there is always going to be waste, much of it "trade" and provide free facilities for dumping it on controlled sites. 

Again I accept that this can only be a generalisation and there are certain hazardous materials in waste generated by some industries which always need controlled disposal for which a charge would have to be made. But it does annoy me when I do DIY, I am prohibited from taking building waste to the tip other than that which will fit in my car. Similarly to arrange a special collection of a large item like a bed or a settee can cost £20 to £30 at time. I don't and never have fly tipped but I can understand why some people are tempted.

 Trangia 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Ridge:

I would also add that I think there is a huge difference in why people drop litter and people fly tip. My theory as to why people drop litter was in my earlier post. So far a fly tipping is concerned, the perpetrators know it is wrong, but still chose to do it hoping that they won't get caught.

In reply to Trangia:

I think the only littering what should be done is the stuff what is good for the environment like I may be wrong but I heard somewhere that egg shell is good for the environment 

Post edited at 13:57
7
 Tom Valentine 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Trangia:

There are facilities available for disposing of trade waste but there is a charge.

People who choose to fly tip are often tradesmen who are not prepared to pay for this facility and factor it into their quotes for jobs, preferring that the council tax payers in general pay for the disposal of waste material generated by practising their chosen occupation.

Removed User 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Trangia:

On the tracks and roads I regularly litter pick agriculture rubbish makes up maybe a third of the total volume I clear. Feed shacks, as mentioned up thread, are all too common. Black sliage plastic is a pest. For what it's worth my feeling is that this stuff isn't dumped but rather badly secured and a big wind spreads it everywhere.

Once while starting up Number 5 Gully to do Ledge Route on Ben Nevis I came across quantities of kingspan insulation material. I could only assume it came from building work recently carried out the ICI hut........

 jethro kiernan 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Cneifion Arête:

Littering is normal for humans and for much of our history it wasn’t much of a problem , It’s the nature of what we discard and the quantity that is now the problem. Plastics and the disposable nature that has changed.  we have just come up with elaborate Ways of hiding the problem with waste collection and “recycling “ when these systems aren’t available then most people take the low energy route. The natives of the Amazon are as prone to littering as us but everything is biodegradable, native and not disposable. It’s not the fact that this shit gets left in beauty spots that we should be offended  by, it’s the fact that you can buy a disposable camping set for £49.99, that you can buy a disposable BBQ and that you can buy water in a plastic bottle that should be offending us.

 Ridge 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Removed UserDeleted bagger:

> Once while starting up Number 5 Gully to do Ledge Route on Ben Nevis I came across quantities of kingspan insulation material. I could only assume it came from building work recently carried out the ICI hut

Bloody now-defunct chemical companies and their mountain huts...

 Ridge 20 Aug 2020
In reply to jethro kiernan:

> It’s not the fact that this shit gets left in beauty spots that we should be offended  by, it’s the fact that you can buy a disposable camping set for £49.99, that you can buy a disposable BBQ and that you can buy water in a plastic bottle that should be offending us.

I can quite easily be offended by all of the above, rather than having to choose 😉

 Tom Valentine 20 Aug 2020
In reply to jethro kiernan:

I'm intrigued by the notion that a certain price on a product makes it "disposable".

If I pay £3 for a Primark T shirt, that doesn't make it anymore disposable than a £30 item. The same applies to a £10 Decathlon jacket or a £20 pair of  Mountain Warehouse shoes. 

Selling  a tent for  a budget price only makes it disposable if the buyer  a dirty idle bastard in the first place.

 jethro kiernan 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Tom Valentine:

I’m sure we can accept that some items are manufactured, marketed and sold as disposable and that a “festival package” if we’re lucky will end up in a skip, if we’re unlucky it will left at a beauty spot, bottled water and disposable bbq are undeniably disposable. Your primarrt T shirt uses as much Cotten, bleach, die, causes as much pollution as a better made T shirt but will Be worn 3 or 4 times by the average consumer.

speaking as someone who bought a pack of three T shirts for a work trip, all three were fit for dish clothes after 2 weeks 😕

 Dax H 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Trangia:

> Ah, same in my area, but I think there is a fairly simple explanation. The tips were all closed for self drive by local councils during lockdown,, and people being people, didn't want manky rubbish lying about in their own gardens and homes. No excuse whatsoever, but the councils would only take a dustbin from each house, excess was rejected by the binmen. It's a pity that the councils didn't think that one through, and show willingness to accept excess bags.

> Even in normal times fly tipping is a problem which could be reduced if councils waived the fees for "non domestic waste". I know it's an added income for councils, but I wonder if that is not off set by the excessive cost to councils of going around the county clearing away fly tipping.. Far better accept that there is always going to be waste, much of it "trade" and provide free facilities for dumping it on controlled sites. 

> I am prohibited from taking building waste to the tip other than that which will fit in my car. Similarly to arrange a special collection of a large item like a bed or a settee can cost £20 to £30 at time. 

Can you apply to the council? In our area you can apply for tickets to visit the top in a van FOC, they are limited to 12 a year. No good to me though, the weight limit of the van is 3 ton, mine is 3.5 so I can't get them so we have to make multiple trips in the wife's little noddy car. 

 J101 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Trangia:

> Ah, same in my area, but I think there is a fairly simple explanation. The tips were all closed for self drive by local councils during lockdown,, and people being people, didn't want manky rubbish lying about in their own gardens and homes. No excuse whatsoever, but the councils would only take a dustbin from each house, excess was rejected by the binmen. It's a pity that the councils didn't think that one through, and show willingness to accept excess bags.

> Even in normal times fly tipping is a problem which could be reduced if councils waived the fees for "non domestic waste". I know it's an added income for councils, but I wonder if that is not off set by the excessive cost to councils of going around the county clearing away fly tipping.. Far better accept that there is always going to be waste, much of it "trade" and provide free facilities for dumping it on controlled sites. 

> Again I accept that this can only be a generalisation and there are certain hazardous materials in waste generated by some industries which always need controlled disposal for which a charge would have to be made. But it does annoy me when I do DIY, I am prohibited from taking building waste to the tip other than that which will fit in my car. Similarly to arrange a special collection of a large item like a bed or a settee can cost £20 to £30 at time. I don't and never have fly tipped but I can understand why some people are tempted.

If you let tradespeople dump at the tip for free there would be a never ending queue for the place, it's bad enough round my way as it is.

And the ar#eholes who flytip would still be ar#eholes and flytip because they wouldn't want to queue.

Post edited at 19:40
 Tom Valentine 20 Aug 2020
In reply to jethro kiernan:

I ve got to say that my usage of Primark T shirts doesn't match your assessment of their usage by the " average" customer. Where do you get your figures from.?

If a "festival " package means that products are taken to festivals with the express intent of being abandoned and this practice is given the nod by festival organisers, surely they the latter have to shoulder some of the blame?

Barbecues are marketed as disposable and are a blight, in the same way as Chinese lanterns and ( I'm afraid) all fireworks are.

But a tent is never disposable unless the person who bought it is by nature someone who would also fly tip without remorse or throw a Starbucks cup down on the pavement. 

 Osiris 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Cneifion Arête:

A Catholic priest begins his sermon in a mosque...

Andy Gamisou 21 Aug 2020
In reply to Dax H:

> I would like to think discretion would be used, someone chasing a crisp bag that gets away is different to Mr or Mrs I'm don't with this, let's just drop it here. 

Hmm.  Accidental versus deliberate. Bit like manslaughter versus murder.  Maybe still get shot, but perhaps aim for the legs.  Would encourage people to be careful with their crisp packets when it's windy.

 Dax H 21 Aug 2020
In reply to veteye:

> What will happen with your manmade seat covers when they wear out? (From the photo). Will they be binned too? How long will they then take to degrade? Maybe they can be donated to help form a modern day "shoddy" or similar composite material?

The seat covers in my van typically last about 2 years. Due to the amount of times I get in and out of the van in any given day the actual seats typically wear through to the foam in 3 years without covers.

I keep my vans for up to 9 years. 4 to 5 sets of seat covers Vs 3 seats. It's the lesser of the waste.

To explain the number of times in and out of the van, every site has at least one gate, some have up to 4. Each gate = get out, open the gate, get in and drive through, get out and close the gate. 4 times in and out of my seat minimum per site and I can do up to 6 or 7 sites in a day. 

 digby 22 Aug 2020
In reply to Trangia:

>  I know it's an added income for councils, but I wonder if that is not off set by the excessive cost to councils of going around the county clearing away fly tipping.

I don't know if it's the same in England but in in Scotland any tipping on private land, which includes gate entrances, is the landowners responsibility to clear. So round me in the semi rural outskirts of Edinburgh there are permanent piles of sh**e from all the little jobs done by intinerant 'workers', especially where they've been camped. The council won't shift anything, there's no detectable enforcement, and the whole area looks shabby. But the council saves money.

 Dax H 22 Aug 2020
In reply to digby:

I don't know about the rap left behind after a camp has moved but some kind soul dumped a load of empty gas bottles in my yard, mainly propane tanks but there were also some oxygen and acetylene bottles too.

Police didn't want to know, council said it was up to me to get rid. Scrap yard wouldn't take them. 

It was a right pain. I had to contact the agent for the companies that supplied them and drop them off, I ended up stuck with a few that either the name had rubbed off or there wasn't a local depot for them. They turned in to garden burners eventually. 

In reply to Cneifion Arête:

You mean like Boris putting his tent up and making a fire in some guys field outside the grounds of the cottage he rented?

 veteye 23 Aug 2020
In reply to Dax H:

> I keep my vans for up to 9 years. 4 to 5 sets of seat covers Vs 3 seats. It's the lesser of the waste.

My comment was somewhat tongue in cheek, but then I was actually wondering if we could break down the material in a modest way and then reconstitute it as something useful, either as a fabric or as a packing or insulating material: Hence the comment about the old fashioned recycled "shoddy". Any thoughts anybody?

 veteye 23 Aug 2020
In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

And did Boris climb back over the two kitchen chairs to get across the fence/wall to go to have a crap/pee in the rented cottage, or did he bare the Boris buttocks to go "au naturel" in the farmer's field?

In reply to veteye:

You know the clothes bank bins you see in car parks sometimes? They usually accept damaged or worn textiles as well as wearable clothes. They do exactly what you suggest - shred it for use in insulation, padding and stuffing. 

 J101 23 Aug 2020
In reply to veteye:

Or did he in fact not stay in the sloppily pitched tent on a slope towards hazardous rocks at all but perhaps on the yacht of a Russian billionaire that was moored in the area...

 veteye 23 Aug 2020
In reply to Stuart Williams:

But do they re-use man made thicker materials, like the car seat covers?

In reply to veteye:

Never checked specifically. My impression was that most of them will take any textiles - I could be wrong though


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