UKH

Hi guys, Snowdonia is a key area I want to tick off and have booked a hotel near Mount Snowdon for 5 nights in December. From the 28th to the 2nd of January. I am told what an amazing area it is for hiking but that Snowdon has Everest style "traffic jams" when nearing the summit. This is such a turn off and I wonder if there is a time of the year where if I went up first light I would not experience this? I appreciate it is not realistic for me ever to have the mountain to myself but I wondered if this potentially busy period between Xmas and New Year is a poor choice? if so, are there better times? Maybe catch a nice weather period in March and go impromptu?

I may of course be guessing incorrectly and that this time is in fact a good one to visit Snowdon. Happy to be corrected!

It’s not that there are queues to get up simply that people queue to have their photo taken next to the summit trig point. If you’re not bothered by that simply walk around the back and tag the trig point. Choice of path makes a difference to how busy it seems but around the summit area is always bedlam. You’ll be fine but if solitude is the objective there are plenty of other hills nearby that are largely deserted.

Cheers Tyler, in that case, I reckon I should just go in the summer time if it's gonna be rammo no matter when I go (and the other nearby hills will still be quiet) - and hit Lake District in December where I'll have a greater choice of places that will be very quiet. Sound about right?

Avoid New Years Eve (Saturday) and New Years Day (Sunday) and I'm sure there'll be many periods of an unoccupied summit.

*Unless we have a December heatwave

You have a massive choice of places that will be very quiet in Snowdonia. I’d say like everywhere it will be less busy in the winter, other than the Xmas and New Year period December will be quieter than the summer. I should have been clearer, the queues (when they exist) needn’t be an issue unless you want a photo at a particular place from a particular vantage point, even at the busiest times you can touch the summit trig point no problem. I didn’t mean to imply the queues are always there. Snowdonia NP gets a fraction of the visitors that the Lake District NP does

Thanks Glyno - I'll stick to my guns then!

One last question - snow on the summit - presumably guaranteed in winter but no biggie really? No problems posed that decent boots won't sort?

Definitely not guaranteed, but you should be prepared to go with axe and crampons. Snowdon in the snow is not to be taken lightly. 

In 1999/2000 myself and a couple of friends went up Snowdon for New Year's Eve. There was enough snow on the ground to make it a tricky ascent without axe and crampons, and we probably shouldn't have continued to the summit. Definitely worth taking axe and crampons if there is a chance of snow especially because it gets compacted by the large number of people, making it quite slippery.

Happy to be corrected!

It's Snowdon or Yr Wyddfa.
Mount Snowdon is in Canada .

In winter, verglas ice on the paths can be very dangerous. Accidents occur regularly and fatalities are not unknown.

Another thing about Snowdon is that some of the routes up are much more popular than others - even if there's a bit of a mob around the summit cairn and the cafe, you'll see far fewer people on the way up if you avoid the Miners Track, the Pyg Track, Crib Goch and the Llanberis Path.

And yeah, it can be magic in the snow, particularly if you go up a relatively quiet route, but I'd definitely want to take an axe and crampons.

Don't be put off by the tabloid photos of massive queues. Maybe there is a massive queue on a Saturday afternoon on a bank holiday weekend / school summer holiday when you get an ok weather forecast, but in the last year I've had the summit of Snowdon to myself all three times I've been. It is absolutely realistic to expect to have the summit to yourself much of the time. No idea whether it's busier or quieter at Xmas but I expect the weather / ground conditions could/would be a bit more serious at that time of year! and It'll be freezing. All my times were spring/summer.

Once I didn't see a soul on the way up or most of the way down, second time I saw someone on the way down but not the way up, third time I saw people on the way up but not at the summit. Each time though, the summit was totally deserted.

I think I would've gone mid-week for 2 of those 3 times, and the other time was a Friday. Each time probably set off from Pen-y-Pas between 4:30-6:30am and got to the summit an hour or so later. Weather was excellent on at least one of those times, and ok ish the other two.

Winter is seeming less and less appealing I must say! 

It can be fantastic, have a look at the Welsh Winter Skills or Walking courses at Plas y Brenin.

Conditions on the higher tops in the Lakes in winter can be very similar.

Good advice. No point taking ice axe and crampons if you don't know how to use them 😐.

A very good point. I was on Crib Goch about three years ago in winter. When I put my crampons on the group next to me decided to do the same. I pointed out they had them on the wrong feet and the big spikes were meant to stick out at the front, not the back. Apparently they had hired them that morning, and not paid much attention when they were shown how to fit them. 

.... and New Zealand.

True. But for the Llanberis path I would honestly suggest the micro-spikes alone is absolutely fine (at risk of getting flamed!). It's well trodden, and the biggest risk of a slip anywhere is just landing on your backside. By the time the snow has been compressed by the 100000 after their winter ascent, crampons are actually really annoying anyway.

I think that the Llanberis MRT team would disagree with you. There is a risk of a serious slide to your doom on the Llanberis path with out crampons in winter, in snow.

Thank god for that.  I've spent the last hour looking for 'Mount Snowdon" on my OS map of North Wales. 

I last went up Snowdon on Jan. 7th - there were other folk on the top when we got there but there was plenty of opportunity for us all to take our stupid selfies (see below) at the trig point.

You stand a good chance of coming across snow and ice then on the top - not always but often. Someone, presumably without winter gear slipped on the main path that day. We came down another route but watched across the cwm a lengthy mountain rescue in progress with a good number of Llanberis MRT on the ground, and a coastguard helicopter on scene hovering above for quite some time. There are bloody big signs all around Snowdon where the main paths start warning what to expect if there's snow and/or ice, I'm not really sure what is in people's head when they walk past those signs in their (as I've seen) DMs or trainers. I guess most get away with it and have a great day out, but some don't and end up (if they are lucky) in a helo being flown to Bangor and the big hospital. Please try not to be one of the latter.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/features/recent_deaths_on_snowdon-1653

A sobering article from 2009.

Maybe they would. But in my opinion and experience, the path is (very) well trodden and 99 times out of 100 micro spikes are ample, crampons are overkill. The former will go on a pair of 2-3 season boots and require essentially no skill to use, the latter need both expensive boots and some knowledge. Please note that I am talking about micro spikes proper, not yaktrax/other icy pavement equipment. I’m also talking about walking on the actual path, not the railway line, as is the wont of some.

Guys, on the subject of Snowdonia more generally, the area near Snowdon, Betws y Coed etc seems to have ample great hiking routes for a 5 night stay but is an hour and a half away from Cadair Idris. Would you say that North Snowdonia and South Snowdonia are two separate trips and the South part will have ample really good hikes to add on to Cadair Idris to fill another 5 night trip on its own? I appreciate that there will probably be enough places to go hiking, the question is more will they be of the quality to justify spending a portion of my holiday time dedicating to it?

What an extraordinary ape index you have! 😂😂😂

Does anyone know why I got 10 thumbs downs for my OP? Seems a bit excessive? And a thumbs down on my last post also? 

You're just asking for trouble writing 'Mount Snowdon' on UKC 😂

Pathetic!!

I wouldn't worry about it, though it does come across rather alienating doesn't it! Everyone's got to start somewhere and has questions to ask. I know I have millions of questions, I have to filter myself 🤣

I had to turn around on Snowdon once.

Went up with the wife, looked like a light dusting of snow from Anglesey.

A little past the Crib Goch turn off on the Pyg it went from no snow at all to a thick blanket. 

So it can be very deceptive.

Bit harsh mate.

I was going to complement your Haystacks thread and suggest starting at Buttermere Village, along the lake side, up FP west Ridge and follow the tops along to Red Pike and back down to Buttermere and a couple of nice pints in the pub to finish.

But I don't think I'll bother now!

Anyway, I decided to move it to the summer. Staying in Capel Curig from May 24-29. Looks like it's right in the middle of amazing hiking country. Will do a South Snowdonia trip the following year. I would ask for recommendations for hikes but perhaps best to buy some books instead! 

Enjoy

I assume you'll have access to a car? If so, and you want to avoid the crowds but want a great hike I would go with the following:

• 5 minute drive from Capel, start the walk at Gwern Gof Uchaf campsite.
• Head up to Pen yr Ole Wen peak (978m)
• Then on to Carnedd Dafydd (1044m)
• Then on to Carnedd Llewelyn (1064m)
• Follow the aeret round a lake called Ffynnon Llugwy
• Then back down to the A5

Three great peaks, one round trip

If you want something more adventurous (tricky) Tryfan is the gem of Snowdonia, but can be bit hairy and crowded subject to route.

If you don't mind bumping shoulders will lots of people and you don't mind being exposed then Crib Goch route up Snowdon is a fantastic walk. Extending to to do the Horseshoe I assume would be even better (but never actually done this)

Fantastic montyjohn, yes I do have access to a car - the crowds aspect is something the books don't always cover - really appreciate it. I've booked a nice Airbnb which is actually right on the A5 - not ideal but in some ways it's perfect for quick access to lots of good spots including the above.

If you want to avoid the crowds on Snowdon then head round to Rhyd Ddu, up the Rhyd Ddu path and down Snowdon Ranger or vice versa.

You can turn the thumbs up/down buttons off. It's a much happier place without them! 

And buy some maps. Books are obviously a good place to start, but to my mind, there's a lot to be said for looking at a map and working out your own routes. I've always felt that learning to love maps is an integral part of enjoying hillwalking - I've never really understood people who go hillwalking without feeling the need to be comfortable with a map. 

Aha! Good to know!!! Just did so. Feel better already

Walking crampons or microspikes/Yaktrax are fine if just walking up the Llanberis, done it a few times.  Full crampons and B2s are not needed (though also work fine).  A walking axe is very well-advised though.

Crib Goch would of course be an entirely different game.

Does OS Maps count?! A big part of wanting a pre-mapped out route and having it on GPS in my phone is I don't need to look at my phone all the time -  if I'm charting the route as I go with a view to taking impromptu turns as the fancy takes me, I find I become more absorbed in the map reading (well, looking at OS maps on my phone) than actually looking up and enjoying the scene. But I get you are talking more bout using the map in advance? The issue I see is a map doesn't really tell you whether the route you choose is the most scenic, best underfoot etc etc? Sorry, I am sounding like a real amateur here, because I am but happy to hear more from you on the subject.

Trouble with your phone is that it might get wet/broken etc.  Though again if you're just going to walk up the Llanberis it's really very hard to go wrong, you basically just follow the railway line.  (On the Pyg or Miners there's more risk of ending up on Crib Goch by accident on descent, but the most useful thing to avoid that would probably not be a paper map but rather a GPS with the exact point they branch off logged in it!)

And your map might blow away, get ripped, or you might just be crap at using it. We're past the anti-tech on the hill arguments no? Take a power bank, and put the phone in a waterproof bag. Even if you get GNSS issues you can use the background mapping in the same way you'd use a paper map. Provided you have the skills of course, which are still essential to have for this exact reason.

I use my phone to navigate all the time, but suggesting that one should have a phone and a paper map and compass and know how to use both is a very sensible idea.

To be honest, though, you could walk up and down the Llanberis path even in winter without any form of navigation.  Follow the railway and the masses of people.

There are two different aspects to the use of maps, both contributing to an increased degree of self-reliance when hillwalking. One is obviously the essential ability to navigate on the ground. Pre-mapped routes on a phone app are useful - I've used this kind of functionality on hand-held GPS devices since before smartphones were commonly used - but the ability to read a map and use it to navigate are important skills to develop. For example, if things go wrong - one of your party has an accident, for example, being able to read a map to find suitable escape routes can be invaluable, and may not be easy to assess on a small phone screen.

The second is, as you say, using the map in advance. This may not tell you directly when the route is the most scenic, or directly what the terrain underfoot is like, but the map will give you a lot of information which can feed into your decision making - for example, the OS map of Kinder Scout shows a path across the plateau, but it also shows a lot of small waterways. This tells you that despite the presence of the path, the route is likely to be wet and boggy. Looking at a map can also give you a much better idea of the general lie of the land than can be gained from the limited map view available on a small phone screen. In a way, looking at a map takes you to your destination before you set off - you can start becoming familiar with the land and the route in the comfort of your home.

Snowdon is also a summit on Dartmoor.  I have visited it several times.  Never been a que

Got to be honest though, I prefer the Welsh version.

You don't want to follow the railway in winter conditions for the reason that it leads to the well known accident blackspot with the convex slope that has killed a number of people. The path is to the east of the rail lines at that point, away from the dangerous slope. 

I guess technically what is shown is a public footpath, which is a ROW, and normally coincides with an actual path on the ground, but knowing Kinder reasonably well, I would stress the "normally coincides" with that one!  

Yeah, that lovely sweeping line of dashes on the OS 1:25000 from Crowden Clough to Kinder Gates bears no relation to what you'll find on the ground. There are a few trods that appear and disappear, where people have walked before, but in my experience even they deviate from the ROW pretty sharpish after leaving Crowden Tower behind. Not sure I've ever followed exactly the same route twice, even though I've done that walk several times!

There really isn't.  In Yaktrax or Kahtoolahs you could stand on 45+ degree sheet ice and you'd go nowhere.  They're really very good.  Almost, other than the ability to "front-point", as good as rubber on gritstone.

With nothing I'd agree, though.

Reference: been up Snowdon in snow/ice several times in Yaktrax and had no issues.

Yep, although last time I did it was the day before the Jan-March 2021 lockdown and it was under knee deep snow (I went and did a mixed climb next to the Downfall), so signs of other people were all a bit academic!