Pen Y Pass car park

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 Sleepymouse 30 Jun 2021

Greetings

We are hoping to walk up Snowdon next week, either Tuesday or Wednesday depending on the weather.

We were planning on arriving at the Pen Y Pass car park between 6 & 7am. Does anyone know whether it will be full by that time of day?

Thank you in advance

1
 profitofdoom 30 Jun 2021
In reply to Sleepymouse:

IMO 6 AM will be fine

That car park is of course weather-dependent, fills up faster in good weather. Good luck

Edit, you can also pre-book, search for prebooking Pen Y Pass car park

Post edited at 15:58
4
OP Sleepymouse 30 Jun 2021

In reply to ThomasRob:

I noticed that, very expensive. Are there any alternatives ie. Other car parks or Sherpa bus?

Post edited at 16:12
 DobloDan 30 Jun 2021
In reply to Sleepymouse:

park behind the joe brown shop in capel curig and get the sherpa bus £3 return

1
 Glyno 30 Jun 2021

In reply to ThomasRob:

> We did park and ride, but if it's much after 6pm then you're in the hands of the local taxi mafia.

I once spent about 15 minutes listening to a taxi driver at the interchange in Llanberis try to convince me that there'd be no Sherpa bus despite the timetable stating otherwise. I was getting a bit concerned as the bus was several minutes overdue and my car was at Pen-y-Gwryd.

I could barely control my feelings of self satisfaction and smugness as the bus trundled towards the stop and the disconsolate taxi driver shuffled away muttering something in his native tongue

4
 PaulJepson 30 Jun 2021
In reply to Sleepymouse:

You could take a different path up? The Rhyd Ddu path will be much quieter and has it's own carpark. The problem with PYP is that Crib Goch, Miners and Pyg all start from it and are the three most popular routes. Rhyd Ddu, Ranger and Watkin all have their own different carparks and you are less likely to be following up a caravan of trackies and trainers who are all there to conquer Mount Snowdon.  

Post edited at 17:43
1
 kmsands 30 Jun 2021
In reply to Sleepymouse:

You can also park along the A498 near the Llanberis pass junction (free I think), then walk up a path to Pen-Y-Pass, if you don't mind an extra 30-40 minutes or so walking in both directions.

1philjones1 30 Jun 2021
In reply to Sleepymouse:

You have to pre-book at Pen y pass now, you can’t just turn up. Rhyd ddu is much quieter, as suggested and parking is easier. It’s also a very nice route up.

Alternatively you can park at Pen y Gwryd for £4/5 (or the next lay-by towards Capel Curig, which is free) and have a slightly longer walk up.

 Trangia 30 Jun 2021

In reply to ThomasRob:

> Think it is £18 now minimum.  Daylight robbery!

Interesting comment. It's an example of market forces at work. A very high demand for very limited space. The ideal would be ample space for all, but that's not possible without blowing up part of the hillside to create a larger area of parking land. Quite apart from the engineering costs, do you really think the environmental brigade would condone it?

So we are left with what we've got. The status quo upsets all those who arrive too late, the only other realistic option is advanced booking for those who are prepared to pay for the privilege. Is it really any more "robbery" than some town centre, station, or airport car parks where space is at a premium? £18 a day sounds a lot, but if you car share, which is what we are now being encouraged to do so as to save the planet, is £4.50 each (for say a car load of 4) robbery to get you onto Wales's highest mountain and all it has to offer? Or is showing reluctance  to pay this sort of money (even £9 each if there are only two of you) just being mean when you are paying for parking to allow you to enjoy your sport? Compare that with what people are people are prepared to pay to use a climbing wall, or go to the theatre, a concert, or a top quality sports match.

Of course it hurts parting with hard earned money, but I've noticed that the same people who moan about parking charges are often the same people who will pay even more for a night out with their friends. 

Isn't it really a matter of deciding what's REALLY important to your life style, and it's naïve to always expect things to be free on our crowded little island.  

Anyway, sorry to hijack the OP's thread. I wish you luck with your crack of dawn start, and I realise your concern is that of getting a parking space.

Post edited at 17:59
6
 wercat 30 Jun 2021
In reply to Trangia:

families tend to car share but that doesn't increase the income divisible by the number of passengers which is why £18 a day is shite

but then it's normal for affluent car sharers to have the options

Post edited at 18:23
20
 Trangia 30 Jun 2021
In reply to wercat:

Fair point, but what proportion of those wishing to use the PYG are families mid week in term time?

What would be your solution to the overdemand and lack of supply at PYG car park?

1
In reply to Sleepymouse:

You'll be able to park for free at the cromlech boulders at that time.

5
 elliot.baker 30 Jun 2021
In reply to Sleepymouse:

You can’t turn up anymore you have to book and more than 24 hours in advanced. 
 

https://www.justpark.com/uk/parking/caernarfon/s/llanberis-caernarfon-ll55-...

It is pricy but no more than a trip to the cinemas or something like that. 
 

I went on Tuesday having pre booked months ago and the attendants just let me in very politely and all was well.

If it goes back to being non pre book only in the winter, I’d say it would be touch and go to get a space at that time. Last year in the winter I got there at about 5am and got the second to last space, last space went a few seconds later then a constant stream of cars came in, circled and had to leave. That congestion is the whole purpose of the pre booking situation IMO. 

My only criticism is why can’t you book <24hrs before if there is space! Pointless rule. 

 Babika 01 Jul 2021
In reply to Sleepymouse:

Sherpa bus.

Really easy and cheap. Can pick up from Betws y Coed to Llanberis so plenty of options to park. 

The more we all use the bus, the better the service will become so please consider it especially for a summer ascent of Snowdon (as opposed to a midweek ice climb in January)

OP Sleepymouse 01 Jul 2021
In reply to Babika:

Thank you to everyone for your helpful replies. 

We're still not sure what we're going to do. The Sherpa from Betws Y Coed would be best for us, unfortunately the first bus is about 8am which is too late as we're early birds who like to get there before the rush. Rhyd Ddu maybe the better route.

 stubbed 01 Jul 2021
In reply to Sleepymouse:

I've always parked in Llanberis and got the local bus to Pen-y-pass then walked back down Llanberis lath to my car. I haven't done it for a few years, mind.

 trouserburp 01 Jul 2021
In reply to Trangia:

£18 parking instigated by a council seems like a scandalous blow to equal access to the outdoors. Only people with more money than sense would pay it, at least until all the surrounding parking gets hiked up in response. The council is setting the worst possible example in profiteering from people accessing the outdoors. Booking online is not incompatible with fair pricing

14
 Neil Williams 01 Jul 2021
In reply to trouserburp:

I disagree.  The car park down the hill and park and ride bus provide reasonably priced access to walk up Snowdon.  This is effectively the premium service.

I do think it should have a few camera controlled 15 minute bays so you can stop for a wee and a takeaway coffee, though.

 Trangia 01 Jul 2021
In reply to trouserburp:

I pose the same second question to you as I put to wercat?

 ianstevens 02 Jul 2021
In reply to DobloDan:

> park behind the joe brown shop in capel curig and get the sherpa bus £3 return

No. Park in the pay and display in Nant Peris, and get the Sherpa from there. You know, the car park designed for those going up Yr Wyddfa rather than a small car park useful for stuff in Capel/the few small hills in the vicinity.

 ianstevens 02 Jul 2021
In reply to kmsands:

> You can also park along the A498 near the Llanberis pass junction (free I think), then walk up a path to Pen-Y-Pass, if you don't mind an extra 30-40 minutes or so walking in both directions.

A) there is a charge

b) if you do this an walk up, note that there is a permissive footpath. Do not walk up the road.

OP Sleepymouse 02 Jul 2021
In reply to Sleepymouse:

Thank you to everyone who's taken the time to reply.

We've finally decided to take the Rhyd Ddu path.

I can understand why they charge a premium for Pen Y Pass and don't mind so much if the extra money is put back into facilities and environmental projects but suspect this may not be the case.

The charge in 2019 was £10 so the price hike is enormous.

It probably hasn't helped with recent events with the park having to clear up additional rubbish and waste.

Thank you once again for all your input.

 Sean Kelly 02 Jul 2021
In reply to kmsands

> You can also park along the A498 near the Llanberis pass junction (free I think), then walk up a path to Pen-Y-Pass, if you don't mind an extra 30-40 minutes or so walking in both directions.

Only free outside the Gwynedd boundary, the other side of the Gwrydd.

 trouserburp 02 Jul 2021
In reply to Trangia:

My solution to the overdemand and lack of supply would be pre-booking at the old price, or 50p extra if it really costs more to accept money through the web than a machine, which I doubt

 Trangia 02 Jul 2021
In reply to trouserburp:

Well that just takes us full circle back to the existing problem - many disappointed punters who won't be able to park there because of overdemand!

Certainly more admin involved for the booking. The average booking fee for theatre or gallery tickets seems to be about £2 extra. There is also increased site patrolling required to ensure that people who haven't booked don't take booked sites.

As an aside, in principle do you not think that cash strapped councils should be able to raise additional income by charging extra for limited amenities for the overall benefit of their own citizens by keeping council tax down where the opportunity exits? 

1
 PaulJepson 02 Jul 2021
In reply to Sleepymouse:

Great choice. I've only done it in winter but the Rhyd Ddu is really nice and there is a lovely bit of ridge-walking on it, on a much quieter side of the mountain. 

 trouserburp 02 Jul 2021
In reply to Trangia:

The demand hasn't changed at all just the demographic who get to park there

Parking online using 3rd party commercial companies is usually 50p extra which is what I based the 50p on

No extra staffing required compared to the old system of somebody standing there sending away the excess cars, patrolling for tickets in windows. It's also possible to install an automatic number plate recognition system and potentially save on staff

In principle a cash strapped council exists to serve people, including providing access to the outdoors. In principle everybody should be able to get out into the natural environment and for a lot of people going to Snowdon is a big deal. Charging for access to nature is in principle evil. The tarmac and a member of staff cost a pittance so the price should be close to a pittance. In principle do you care if all the surrounding car parking prices also get hiked to central London prices? If they all follow this example enough people would pay rather than turn home that they would make an overall greater profit, which fits your model. In principle if(?) you were a millionaire would you have any objection to the price being £180 or £1800, whatever counts as pocket money to somebody else but would be a ridiculous barrier to you

2
 wercat 02 Jul 2021
In reply to Trangia:

allow those prepared to get there early a chance to get there and pay a reasonable charge.  Enforce no overnight parking like hawks.  Enforce bad parking and road obstructions fines near the car park with draconian severity.  Continue to provide the excellent Park and Ride (the last several occasions I have stayed in Llanberis YH, used the bus service and walked back down to the hostel, but it would be nice, just occasionally to plan an early raid and park at PyP but I'd blow a sgninficant proportion of a trip's fuel money if I paid £18.

Plenty of people say we must all pay through the nose as we can afford transport but these days bus travel is prohibitively expensive in some areas (eg Cumbria) and it simply isn't true that parking costs are not significant to people who stretch finances to get to the outdoors in the first place - this is a reality for a lot of people in Cumbria too, as wages and incomes in the community tend to be low compared to the wealth of second home owners and weekenders.

I'm spending a lot less time in my local hills and more on my pushbike partly because of fuel and parking cost.  Buses are science-inrastructural-financial fiction here except for occasional full day tickets (the only way of getting reasonable value) for something major like getting home from Ambleside after walking into the Lakes from say the Tirril area.

Last trip I walked from that area to Troutbeck over the tops of the Roman road and then cut the cost by carrying my bivvy equipment all the way up the Kirkstone and down to Brotherswater and ack over Place Fell to Howtown to avoid prohibitive bus costs as ~I could get a lift home from Howtown.  The actual destination was Troutbeck, the tramp home was a necessary cost saver.  As I get older this is harder and tougher to achieve the wanted itinerary as opposed to the extra mileage.

Post edited at 16:05
 GrahamD 02 Jul 2021
In reply to trouserburp:

Last I looked, noone was charging to use the outdoors.

 Neil Williams 02 Jul 2021
In reply to wercat:

> allow those prepared to get there early a chance to get there and pay a reasonable charge.

I think regardless of what you are charging, advance booking is the best option.  It is best to be able to book any scarce resource rather than risk turning up and it not being available.

If you know it is not available, then you can make other plans.

The one thing I would say as I did above is that there should be a small number of 15 minute bays for using the toilets and cafe (most car parks with toilets seem to lack this, though the railway seems to "get" it!)

Post edited at 17:02
 wercat 02 Jul 2021
In reply to Neil Williams:

the other problem, of course, is parking for the hostel - it seems a bit harsh that there is such limited parking available there overnight.

 Neil Williams 02 Jul 2021
In reply to wercat:

> the other problem, of course, is parking for the hostel - it seems a bit harsh that there is such limited parking available there overnight.

Fair point, though there are loads of other hostels in Snowdonia, which means the use-case for that one is "walking up Snowdon via the Pyg, Miners or Crib Goch", and so you're probably just as able to park in Llanberis and use the P&R* to get to it as anyone day-tripping is.  And there are a number of hostels that don't even have road access!

* Or if arriving later on I guess a taxi, though I don't know how good availability round there is.

Post edited at 23:01
 static266 03 Jul 2021
In reply to Neil Williams:

It is a tricky one with the hostel but you can pre book the spaces well in advance. Depending on the room price though you can easily add on 50%+ when you factor in £40 for 24 hours parking. A bank holiday weekend stay will cost you £120 in parking charges. There are a few free spaces in the roadside lay-by but these are like gold dust. 
 

You all might be interested to hear about how the car park is staffed. Obviously in the day the national park wardens who are based at Pen-y-Pass manage the car park. From 6pm to 8am there are 2 security guards contracted in, that’s 28 working hours at an educated rate of £12 per hour, so that park are paying out an extra £3-400 per day which is probably costed into the new charge increases. I asked if they could get automatic barriers installed and the wardens said that national park planning permission was making it difficult, what irony!

 GrahamD 03 Jul 2021
In reply to wercat:

Oh for the days when you had to get to hostels under your own steam !

 wercat 03 Jul 2021
In reply to GrahamD:

they're a comin back!

actually thinking about it maybe the fairest thing is for having parking only for the hostel up there and having no other parking at all but a very good frequent and cheap park and ride from all directions, perhaps a model for the Lakes as well.

Post edited at 09:27
 Neil Williams 03 Jul 2021
In reply to static266:

They could probably do ANPR with automatic fines if you haven't paid, though.

 Neil Williams 03 Jul 2021
In reply to wercat:

The Lakes doesn't have the same problem because it is all distributed - plus it has a pretty decent bus network, unlike North Wales.

I remain of the view that the Snowdon Sherpa network should be heavily upgraded, funded by a tourist tax.

 wercat 03 Jul 2021
In reply to Neil Williams:

buses couldn't get through, nor emergency services this year because of clogged roads and cars parked blocking passage to ambulance and bus sized vehicles.

Plus buses are very expensive to use up here aunless you buy an all day ticket which is reasonable but impractically expensive for short trips/multiple persons and although we are less than 10 miles from the National Park there is one bus in and out of here per week.  

We have BBC local news here that is mainly biased to the NE and it pretty well every day emphasises the inequality in infrastructure and provision of services - Cumbria is like ex cold war Eastern Europe compared with 40-50 miles away over the Pennines.

Post edited at 11:07
 RobAJones 03 Jul 2021
In reply to wercat:

> Plus buses are very expensive to use up here 

But not if you're a pensioner or under 20.

> We have BBC local news here that is mainly biased to the NE and it pretty well every day emphasises the inequality in infrastructure and provision of services 

Sounds familiar 

>Cumbria is like ex cold war Eastern Europe compared with 40-50 miles away over the Pennines.

I went to Poland a couple of times in the 90's. I thinks the Lakes could have learned from the taxi/mini bus system present on restricted roads in the Tatras at the time. 


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