National Trust

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 Groundhog 21 Aug 2020

What is going on with the National Trust? Expensive car parks and entry fees, restrictive opening/closing times, all dogs on leads and bossy signs all over the place. After decades of fighting for access to open spaces it seems we are going backwards.

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In reply to Groundhog:

Their land, their rules.  They do not charge for accessing open country, just using their car parks or visiting their property; if they do not charge who pays for the up keep.

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 Dan Arkle 21 Aug 2020
In reply to Groundhog:

They are fighting against the chaos of this summer. Covid fly campers and unprecedented numbers of visitors. 

Its fairly cheap if you are a member. 

1
In reply to Groundhog:

And £3 a day for parking is a lot cheaper than in town centre.

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In reply to Groundhog:

It costs a lot to build flasgstone motorways up mountains. Can't have people getting muddy boots.
And the ticket machines on every layby and roadside patch of wasteground in the lakes won't have come for free, so they need to charge you as much as they can ask for with a straight face to use this land that's "for everyone, for ever".
But they do also do a lot that I do approve of, like look after a lot of our heritage and history, and tell people with dogs to keep them on a lead (I don't want to be licked by your dog, doesn't matter whether you're chanting "he's just playing") and tell people with drones to f*** off, so... mixed feelings. All told I don't mind handing over the cash.

Love them or hate them, the way to give them the minimum amount of your hard-earned is to join the NTS. You don't have to park many times to break even.

Post edited at 10:14
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In reply to HighChilternRidge:

£3 a day is a lot cheaper than an NT car park too

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

Only £3 in Beacons & Gower.

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 AukWalk 21 Aug 2020
In reply to HighChilternRidge:

Usually more like £7.50 upwards for most NT car parks I remember using. Quite extortionate really.

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 Run_Ross_Run 21 Aug 2020
In reply to Groundhog:

Dogs should be on a lead in public area anyway. Most common sense way of everyone being able enjoying the NT land. 

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 elliot.baker 21 Aug 2020
In reply to AukWalk:

£4 all day at Chatsworth bloody bargain! and you have to book online so you know you're going to get a space. Perfect system!

 Bacon Butty 21 Aug 2020
In reply to AukWalk:

A mere £20 for 12 hours at Pen y Pass.

 S Andrew 21 Aug 2020

About £20 for a day in Langdale. Means there’s plenty of space for members.

 toad 21 Aug 2020
In reply to elliot.baker:

Chatsworth isn't NT, or was that your point?

Removed User 21 Aug 2020

Ironically, the National Trust is less racially diverse than the National Front.

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 elliot.baker 21 Aug 2020
In reply to toad:

haha I didn't know that ! I stand corrected. Nah I meant it was cheap and decent . now I think about it I know the NT carparks at Old Dungeon Ghyll and NDG are a lot more expensive than the hotel one.

 TobyA 21 Aug 2020
In reply to S Andrew:

> About £20 for a day in Langdale. Means there’s plenty of space for members.

Eeek! Really?! I need to get up there and do some parking - in Dorset last week we probably got most of our family membership cost "back" in money saved on car parks and a couple of visits to the actual sites. It sounds like a day of parking in the Lakes would see me break even!  Actually, now the machine is working again at Curbar - the phantom coin slot foam filler of the Eastern Edges seems to be having a break - I think I probably break even on membership just parking up there for going out bouldering or soloing on my own over a year.

 wercat 21 Aug 2020
In reply to Groundhog:

NT is a cumfurtably orff Klub.  These fese ar no pig deel for the rite peeple

x memba of long standen

Post edited at 13:18
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 Trangia 21 Aug 2020
In reply to Groundhog:

What planet are you on!? Has it escaped your notice that we are in the middle of a pandemic which is having a devastating effect on our economy, and amongst the worst affected are charities.? Have you no concept of the costs involved in maintaining all the historic buildings and estates which the NT is entrusted with? Without charities like the NT and English Heritage our country would culturally be a sad and poor place. Their main source of income is from visitors, particularly foreign visitors, and this year income from visitors has fallen through the floor. Of course opening times are restricted, its the only way many sites can re-open, and still comply with Government Covid restrictions. 

Car parking is another big source of income, and as has been pointed out, if you join you will, in most cases get free all year parking, which represents good value for money.

NT's income is in dire straights, they have already had to give notice of redundancies for many staff.

They need support, not criticism, but if you don't like it no one is forcing you to visit their properties, go somewhere else.

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 Rick Graham 21 Aug 2020
In reply to Trangia:

I am not really bothered about the stately homes, I just want to go climbing, the only practical way to do that is use my car or van.

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 MG 21 Aug 2020
In reply to Rick Graham:

So don’t join the NT. Or do and the get free parking and support their work in land conversation.

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 bouldery bits 21 Aug 2020
In reply to Groundhog:

The NT is not perfect, but they look after a significant proportion of our built heritage and our wild places relatively well. 

Who would you prefer to manage these things? The government??? They'd all be sold off within a week.... 

Managing these places isn't free.

I make my monthly membership back in parking alone each year - either by the coast for surfing or being in the fells. Plus, local parkrun is at an NT property. 

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OP Groundhog 22 Aug 2020
In reply to Run_Ross_Run:

The local NT property which prompted my op is mostly open country where the vast majority of users are dog walkers. We don't take our dogs out to have them on leads. They need to run around. And yes we avoid areas where there are ground nesting birds in the breeding season.

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 Run_Ross_Run 22 Aug 2020
In reply to Groundhog:

>  We don't take our dogs out to have them on leads. They need to run around. And yes we avoid areas where there are ground nesting birds in the breeding season.

That's a dissapointing mindset and unfortunately an ever increasing narrow minded /short sighted view that some dog owners have.

Other members of the public (runners, families out with kids, walkers, cyclist's , photographers etc) might not want to have a dog snapping around their heals etc. Other people shouldn't have their enjoyment of a place tainted but irresponsible dog owners.

The only place a dog should be off a lead is on private land, its that simple. 

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 S Andrew 22 Aug 2020
In reply to Groundhog:

So you’re looking for a free dog toilet paid for by the people who’ll end up with dog crap on their shoes?

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 Sean Kelly 22 Aug 2020
In reply to S Andrew:

Funny how no one objects to  horses shit  on lanes when cycling, cow pats when crossing  fields, and sheepshit on the fells? When I lived in Nant Peris any visitor invariably liberally covered my kitchen floor with sheep poo from their boots. But dog poo well that's a whole different story!

Post edited at 10:05
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 mondite 22 Aug 2020
In reply to Sean Kelly:

> But dog poo well that's a whole different story!

It is generally less pleasant and more dangerous.

Anyway back to NT. They did initially go for free access at the beginning of the pandemic. It didnt end well.

In terms of car park pricing definitely not cheap day to day but if you are likely to use them often then it becomes economical with membership.

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 mountainbagger 22 Aug 2020
In reply to Sean Kelly:

> Funny how no one objects to  horses shit  on lanes when cycling, cow pats when crossing  fields, and sheepshit on the fells? When I lived in Nant Peris any visitor invariably liberally covered my kitchen floor with sheep poo from their boots. But dog poo well that's a whole different story!

A quick Google will help there:

https://www.csindy.com/coloradosprings/why-horses-can-poop-on-the-trails-bu...

In reply to Groundhog:

The easiest solution is to join the NT. "Free" or at least prepaid parking and entry, plus as a member you then have an influence on policy, should you choose to use it. 

However, whining on an unrelated forum is much more fun isn't it? 😊

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 TobyA 22 Aug 2020
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Are you really saying that stepping in a cow pat is as disgusting as stepping in dog sh*t?! 

Coming back to the UK 6 years ago after most of the previous 18 years abroad, stepping in dog crap is definitely less of a problem these days because so many dog owners put the poo in a little plastic bag before they leaving it that on the path, next to stiles, hanging from a bush etc. I've seen all three of those in the last seven days on a national nature reserve in the Peak District national park, and on National Trust land in Dorset.

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 Toccata 22 Aug 2020
In reply to Presley Whippet:

Easiest solution for parking is to get a junior membership through a cash back site which comes with a parking sticker. Cost about £15 15 years ago and got me free parking through the hard up years. I have kept family membership up since out of guilt (although probably still save money on parking).

In reply to Toccata:

Like I said above, NTS (Scotland) is the way I do it. £5.10 a month gets you 2 car stickers.
I figure if I ever feel guilty I can always donate. And if I felt hard done by I could cancel the DD and keep the sticker. But £5.10 a month is a number I'm happy with, and in my head it's going to fund nice things in Scotland, not paying for people to pick bags of dog crap out of trees in Tatton Park.

 lithos 22 Aug 2020
In reply to Toccata:

junior does not  inc parking.  young person (18..25) is 36 per year does inc parking

 Phil1919 22 Aug 2020
In reply to Toccata:

Best way is to cycle and not drive.

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 afx22 22 Aug 2020
In reply to Groundhog:

Not so easy if the venue is 30 miles away and you want to take bouldering mats.

In reply to mondite

The NT is generally good value. For some venues, it is a spectacular money-saver. Stonehenge, for example, costs a ludicrous 50 pounds, or so,  for a family of non-members - that money goes to English Heritage - but is free for NT members. 

Post edited at 12:28
 Jamie Wakeham 22 Aug 2020
In reply to Groundhog:

The NT is perfectly happy to have dogs off the leash on their property - as long as they are in a pack and trying to rip a fox to shreds.

We'd been members for years but left in protest at their shamelessly undemocratic approach to the fox hunting issue. 

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 peppermill 22 Aug 2020
In reply to Groundhog:

I'll keep paying, little bro was lucky to keep his job with them a couple of weeks ago, they're not in a good place.

 mbh 22 Aug 2020
In reply to Groundhog:

>The local NT property which prompted my op is mostly open country where the vast majority of users are dog walkers.

Have you not considered that all your dogs might be putting other people off? I love to run, and on my doorstep have a terrific old railway, now a recreational trail, a Forestry Commission woodland and an open country NT site. I have annual subscriptions to the latter two.

At all three the preponderance of dog walkers, many with more than one dog and most with dogs off their lead are a serious deterrent to going there. 

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 Dave Ferguson 23 Aug 2020
In reply to Presley Whippet:

so I can pay my £120 a year and have an influence on policy?

I don't think so somehow.

£8 a shot parking charge for a days climbing in the lakes is a rip off whether you pre pay or not. Luckily its not enforced, it will be interesting if they ever take the parking eye approach.

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 FactorXXX 23 Aug 2020
In reply to Dave Ferguson:

> £8 a shot parking charge for a days climbing in the lakes is a rip off whether you pre pay or not. 

How about parking somewhere else for free and walking further?
 

In reply to Dave Ferguson:

>t will be interesting if they ever take the parking eye approach.

I think this is inevitable, it is a when rather than an if. 

The OP was wanting to change the NT from outside. It is much easier to do so from the inside. The NT witnessed a large increase in membership from countryside alliance types just prior to its decision on whether to allow fox hunting on its lands.

Of course, if you find the parking objectionable, there is always the option of bumming a free ride on your gullible mates ticket isn't there? 

 summo 23 Aug 2020
In reply to FactorXXX:

> How about parking somewhere else for free and walking further?

I'd happily do that rather than to be the NT as single penny. It's an organisation that's rotten to it's so called charitable core. 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/breach-of-trust

Hopefully covid will force them to sell off some property. 

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 Wainers44 23 Aug 2020
In reply to Groundhog:

The ones I have been to seem to be pretty good and doing their utmost to get back to something normal.

"We" are the problem, there is just too many of us out and about and on our hols down here at the mo. We walked ro one NT place early in the morning,  bought a cuppa etc from the cafe as soon as it opened and then headed off. By then it was clear that the place was about to be totally overwhelmed by visitors. 

Pity that yet again  on here a thread heads down a generalist track for the dog haters. Mine, for what it's worth, is let off the lead unless there are others about without dogs. 

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 Tom Valentine 23 Aug 2020
In reply to mountainbagger:

So presumably if a dog exists on a vegan diet ( which mine did, for medical as opposed to ethical reasons) it can shit all over the place like horses do?

Post edited at 07:58
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 S Andrew 23 Aug 2020
In reply to Wainers44:

Easy to dismiss other views as “dog haters”. 

I’m not. Some of my best friends are dogs 😁

I’ve  even been seen out walking a relative’s dogs.

But more often I’m running or cycling through dog crap, admiring the poo bags hanging from trees and shredding their way into the mud and vegetation. And I don’t like it. I’d suggest that (a subset of) dog owners are more of a long term problem than the current wave of dirty campers.

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 Lankyman 23 Aug 2020
In reply to Tom Valentine:

> So presumably if a dog exists on a vegan diet ( which mine did, for medical as opposed to ethical reasons) it can shit all over the place like horses do?

If your dog can make ethical decisions about its diet then it ought to know where it's appropriate to drop a log.

 FactorXXX 23 Aug 2020
In reply to summo:

> I'd happily do that rather than to be the NT as single penny. It's an organisation that's rotten to it's so called charitable core. 
> https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/breach-of-trust
> Hopefully covid will force them to sell off some property. 

What's your issue?
The way they went about it?
Or, the intention of what they want/have done with the purchased land?

 Tom Valentine 23 Aug 2020
In reply to Lankyman:

My dog had very few ethics: it was the vet who put him on the meat free diet.

 Wainers44 23 Aug 2020
In reply to S Andrew:

No problem with poor behaviour from particular dog owners being called out at all, but that's not how these threads go. Dog owners generally are demonized.

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 summo 23 Aug 2020
In reply to FactorXXX:

> What's your issue? > The way they went about it?> Or, the intention of what they want/have done with the purchased land?

Deliberately over spending to stop locals buying the farm, effectively pricing them out as the farm wouldn't be viable if someone then out bid NT, but they don't care as it's donor's or the public's subscription money being spent by them. It's like they think they are the best custodians of everything and having a functioning farm with local owner isn't relevant.  

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 Dave Ferguson 23 Aug 2020
In reply to Presley Whippet:

> Of course, if you find the parking objectionable, there is always the option of bumming a free ride on your gullible mates ticket isn't there? 

thats true enough and occurs regularly. Can't bring myself to join though after the great easter egg scandal. 

In reply to Dave Ferguson:

For me membership for parking makes sense:

Economically,fairly obvious

Convenience, I just go to the car park and park, no hunting around for an alternative. 

Risk wise, lower chance of damage to vehicle in car park, that hidden rock/hole in the verge will wipe out a few years membership in one instance. 

Increasingly NT carparks are being manned and/or patrolled, the enforcement argument is losing weight. 

Free picnic blanket! 

There are a multitude of things the NT gets wrong. I could stamp my feet about eggs, fox hunts, the damage done to the Borrowdale community etc etc. This tantrum would be a luxury given the advantages above. As a member, I do at least have an influence. 


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