UKH

For some of us over a certain age Eric Langmuir’s Mountaincraft and Leadership book was the bible, it was also the book of choice for ML training.  Having lent my one out to a friend many years ago and never having it returned, I went online to purchase another copy. I was surprised to find that the book hasn’t been published since 2012/13. Is there a reason for this, is there some kind of legal dispute on copyright since Eric’s death back in 2005 or has the book been superseded by another title. What do Mountain Training and Mountaineering Scotland now use?

I had it too many moons ago. Yes it got superseded. There are (or were) 3 books supporting the  schemes... 'Hill Walking' by Steve Long is in it's 3rd edition I think. There is one for summer, one for winter and one for rock climbing stuff. 

The new books are much better to be honest, clearer, easier to follow and learn from, great diagrams etc. The world has moved on in a positive way (related to this). 

A quick google search will show you them 

Probably also related to the profusion of increasingly limited qualifications: Rural Pavement Walking, High Street Pavement Walking, Metropolitan Pavement Walking, Summer Towpath Leader, Cloudy Day Towpath Leader, etc etc etc...

The most recent edition of Langmuir was published in 2013 and is still in print; it's was very heavily revised / rewritten by quite a big team of specialists under the ageis of MTB England and Scotland. It's still called 'Langmuir', but essentially it's a new book and I've found it an excellent reference book for mountain activities, especially when I was doing my ML and when I'm teaching mountain skills with our MR recruits. I really like the Steve Long Mountain Training book as well, but absolutely wouldn't dismiss the 2013 Langmuir or consider it to be out of date.

Is it in scope for a leader with a Rural Pavement Walking qualification to take a group over a burn using stepping stones?

Perhaps, is it in spate? Done your white water safety and rescue(wwsr), or the advanced wwsr? As the foundation wwsr might not be sufficient. 

No. But I have a written safety assessment and mitigation strategy and a spare pair of socks.

Langmuir would be pleased! 

Why should teachers, scout leaders, etc, etc. have to do ML training, with all its rigours, to lead groups of kids around lowland walks? The aim of the less-involved qualifications is surely to lower the bar to participation in the outdoors, whilst maintaining standards of safety and providing a framework for education (e.g. individuals becoming able to educate their groups about these landscapes). I can only see that as a positive. Of course, you can argue that qualifications shouldn't be needed for lowland walks... but just wait until a group get lost on Dartmoor in thick fog and the Daily Mail splash: "Unqualified Teacher Leads Death March on Dartmoor." I'm sure you and many others on UKC would be straight on here to complain... can't win, eh?

I'd go further than that. I appreciate that it was a long time ago, but I did more kayaking than climbing in my mid teens. The main reason for this was that the "basic" kayaking qualifications we could get at the time enabled us to borrow the Scout groups equipment officially. No such climbing qualifications were available so "borrowing" the climbing equipment requited a degree of subterfuge. 

 "Unqualified Teacher Leads Death March on Dartmoor."

Is that the new name for the Lich Way? Not sure I like that?

I got a copy of the fourth, and last, edition when it was published in early 2013. But I remember that I had it on order for over a year as publication kept being delayed. As I was working in a bookshop at the time I asked one of our reps about it who explained that, as you surmised, the delays were due to legal rights issues. The copyright will usually revert to an author's estate after death but I don't know what the details of the dispute were as I didn't ask. I do believe it's currently out of print although (over-priced!) copies are floating around out there; it would be a shame if the dispute couldn't be resolved and it never gets reprinted or updated. In case I'm wrong, though, you could always get in touch with Cordee who were the official distributor.

Thanks for the reply and insight much appreciated. Yes, it would be a shame if it’s now consigned to the past, always found it to be full of great advice and techniques.

The main thing is to ensure that individual skills are sufficiently good that a lowland walk in even bad weather etc won't stretch the leader so they can focus on the group management stuff and or some education along the way. If a leader is glued to the map all day, they won't know what's occuring within their party. 

Why indeed. And yet the DofE jobs I see advertised on the FB Freelance DofE group all seem to want ML (for specific expeditions, not permanent posts) even for places as terrifyingly mountainous as Epping Forest...

I'm not averse to qualifications, but we now have two NGBs, each offering similar bits of paper. Anyone would think there's money to be made from offering qualifications...

Many years ago my wife was a Guide leader in the Peak District when the Guide Association brought in a rule requiring them to have an ML to take the girls obove 1000'. They replied that this would mean having to cancel church parades.