Mount Snowdon

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 Trangia 27 Sep 2020

According to the News today the "Queue to climb Mount Snowdon was 300m long"

I presume that means the summit cone? Is the railway still running with the Covid restrictions? If so I presume many of the queue were train passengers?

Supermarkets had no toilet paper today in this area. Is someone hoarding them with the intention of building a Mount Bog Roll to relieve the pressure on Snowdon?

What a crazy world we are living in.......

3
 J101 27 Sep 2020
In reply to Trangia:

It's good in that it keeps a lot of the selfie takers in a one place and I'm not going to start giving out to anybody who wants to go for a walk.

The absolute brass neck of people who think they have a right to a summit selfie without anyone else in the picture though...

 GrahamD 27 Sep 2020
In reply to Trangia:

People on Snowdon ? Good on them, I say.  Wish I was.

 Stichtplate 27 Sep 2020
In reply to Trangia:

Snowdon has gone nuts since lockdown lifted. Took this photo from Carnedd Ugain a week last Thursday, absolutely unprecedented for term time, midweek. We gave it a miss and went for a swim in Glasyn instead.

Post edited at 18:28

 Andy Clarke 27 Sep 2020
In reply to Stichtplate:

It's almost as bad as Everest.

In reply to Trangia:

I enjoy looking a photo's of mountain queues - they're uniquely therapeutic. If someone published a photo book on the subject I'd probably buy one.

mysterion 27 Sep 2020
In reply to Stichtplate:

I wonder what sort of reception Welsh 3000ers get?

 greg_may_ 27 Sep 2020
In reply to mysterion:

Usually gone before most turn up. What with it being the start and all  

 Stichtplate 27 Sep 2020
In reply to Phantom Disliker:

Here you go then. A mate just sent me this one of today’s madness. He reckons people were queuing for two hours 😂


In reply to Stichtplate:

Those worry lines are geological! 👍🏻👍🏻

Gone for good 27 Sep 2020
In reply to Stichtplate:

That is just mental. 

 Sam Beaton 27 Sep 2020
In reply to Phantom Disliker:

Have you seen Gordon Stainforth's splendid photo of queues on Striding Edge?

 off-duty 27 Sep 2020
In reply to Stichtplate:

> Here you go then. A mate just sent me this one of today’s madness. He reckons people were queuing for two hours 😂

Daily Mail by morning. Bet they don't pay either.

In reply to Sam Beaton:

I enjoy much of Gordon's output but no, alas I've not seen this photo!

 profitofdoom 27 Sep 2020
In reply to Stichtplate:

> Here you go then. A mate just sent me this one of today’s madness. He reckons people were queuing for two hours 😂

Thanks for the photo. That looks insane to me. WHY ON EARTH would anyone want to be in that line for that long??

 Stichtplate 27 Sep 2020
In reply to off-duty:

> Daily Mail by morning. Bet they don't pay either.

He'd filched it from somewhere else anyway

 Sam Beaton 27 Sep 2020
In reply to Phantom Disliker:

P150 of Eyes To The Hills

 Jack 27 Sep 2020
In reply to Trangia:

Is this just to get to the summit cairn? If someone was to just walk past to the side of the summit cairn and then carry on thier way, what would be the problem?

 Run_Ross_Run 27 Sep 2020
In reply to Trangia:

'Mount Snowdon'

Where's that then? 

1
Plasynant 27 Sep 2020
In reply to Trangia:

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/local-news/shocking-scenes-snowdon-massive...
 

Article from the welsh daily post on Saturday. 

 GerM 27 Sep 2020
In reply to Run_Ross_Run:

I think he means Yr Wyddfa, a lot of people seem to refer to it as Snowdon or variations on that theme for some reason.

9
 Robert Durran 27 Sep 2020
In reply to profitofdoom:

> Thanks for the photo. That looks insane to me. WHY ON EARTH would anyone want to be in that line for that long??

It's not exactly a knife edge ridge - easy enough to overtake. Extraordinary sheep mentality.

1
mysterion 27 Sep 2020
In reply to Stichtplate:

> Here you go then. A mate just sent me this one of today’s madness.

Bobble hats

 FactorXXX 27 Sep 2020
In reply to GerM:

> I think he means Yr Wyddfa, a lot of people seem to refer to it as Snowdon or variations on that theme for some reason.

Most native Welsh speakers and North Walians in general refer to it as Snowdon and calling it Yr Wyddfa is a very recent thing.

7
 GerM 28 Sep 2020
In reply to FactorXXX:

The Mount snowdonia it is then.

1
 wynaptomos 28 Sep 2020
In reply to FactorXXX:

> Most native Welsh speakers and North Walians in general refer to it as Snowdon and calling it Yr Wyddfa is a very recent thing.

LOL and what is the source for that nugget of information?

4
 FactorXXX 28 Sep 2020
In reply to GerM:

> The Mount snowdonia it is then.

Ideally it would be called Yr Wyddfa, but to pretend that the vast majority of North Walians including native Welsh speakers do refer to it as Yr Wyddfa is false.

3
 FactorXXX 28 Sep 2020
In reply to wynaptomos:

> LOL and what is the source for that nugget of information?

My father who is in his eighties, native North Walian, Welsh as his first language has always referred to Snowdon as Snowdon.
My guess, is the insistence to call it Yr Wyddfa is more political by a minority as opposed to what the majority in North Wales actually realistically refer to it as. 

1
 Bacon Butty 28 Sep 2020
In reply to Stichtplate:

> Here you go then. A mate just sent me this one of today’s madness. He reckons people were queuing for two hours 😂


Not a tracksuit or a pair of flipflops in sight ... very disappointing. The masses must have been reading previous threads, good to see they're learning 😆

 Stichtplate 28 Sep 2020
In reply to Bacon Butty:

> Not a tracksuit or a pair of flipflops in sight ... very disappointing. The masses must have been reading previous threads, good to see they're learning 😆

I just hope they don’t cotton on to the wild swimming. The middle of Glasyn was the furthest I managed to get from the feckers all day.

To be fair, stripping to my shreds did seem to repel a great many from coming any closer.

Post edited at 00:44
 GerM 28 Sep 2020
In reply to FactorXXX:

It would be highly unusual to refer to it as anything but Yr Wyddfa when speaking Welsh, and is not a recent thing at all. Was your father speaking English by any chance when referring to it as Snowdon?

I would suggest that your perspective is coloured by the language through which you experience things.

And why refer to what it is called in the North of Wales in particular, rather than the whole of Wales, North West Wales or Gwynedd?

4
 wynaptomos 28 Sep 2020
In reply to FactorXXX:

I would call it Yr Wyddfa when speaking Welsh and Snowdon when speaking English as I suspect would your father. Nothing political about it.

1
 CampusBored 28 Sep 2020
In reply to FactorXXX:

If I were speaking Welsh I'd refer to the mountain as Y Wyddfa, if I were speaking English I'd refer to the mountain as Snowdon.

The majority of Welsh speakers (when speaking Welsh) will refer to the mountain as the Wyddfa - this isn't politically motivated, it's much simpler than that... it's our language.

"Dwi am fynd fynnu Snowdon i ymuno a'r ciw sydd ar y copa"

Any welsh speaker (your father would agree I'd assume) will tell you how silly that sentence sounds with the English spelling variation.

"I'm going up Y Wyddfa to join the summit queue"

Anyone reading the above (please correct me if I'm wrong) would read it fairly normal - I'm no linguistic expert but referring to a place by it's native name in any language seems much more apt / acceptable.

It will have been referred to as Y Wyddfa centuries before it was called Snowdon.

1
 ianstevens 28 Sep 2020
In reply to Phantom Disliker:

> I enjoy looking a photo's of mountain queues - they're uniquely therapeutic. If someone published a photo book on the subject I'd probably buy one.

*dials phone* Hello, is that Vertebrae Publishing?, I've got an idea...

 ianstevens 28 Sep 2020
In reply to FactorXXX:

> My father who is in his eighties, native North Walian, Welsh as his first language has always referred to Snowdon as Snowdon.

> My guess, is the insistence to call it Yr Wyddfa is more political by a minority as opposed to what the majority in North Wales actually realistically refer to it as. 

And I suspect Alaskans have (until recently) called Denali Mt McKinley, and Tibetans/Nepalis called Everest Chomolungma (sic) in the last few decades. Far nicer to use the original, native names IMO. Yr Wyddfa is a far nicer name. 

1
 TheSooper 28 Sep 2020
In reply to Trangia:

It's getting crazy busy everywhere.  My daughter and I walked the length of the Rhinogiau this weekend.  In just 36hrs we must have seen more than 12 goats, 200 sheep, 20 walkers, a wild swimmer, 6 Ravens and numerous butterflies.  There are even a few stretches of walked path beginning to appear....I blame everyone else.

 Chopper 28 Sep 2020
In reply to Trangia:

I used to know somebody who insisted on referring to a mountain in southern Snowdonia as Cayder Eye-dris

The also told me how they'd been to Beedelgert

Post edited at 12:28
OP Trangia 28 Sep 2020
In reply to TheSooper:

> It's getting crazy busy everywhere.  My daughter and I walked the length of the Rhinogiau this weekend.  In just 36hrs we must have seen more than 12 goats, 200 sheep, 20 walkers, a wild swimmer, 6 Ravens and numerous butterflies.  There are even a few stretches of walked path beginning to appear....I blame everyone else.

That's very worrying, particularly the sheep. It could be a disaster if they start moving into the hills.

 Tom Valentine 28 Sep 2020
In reply to ianstevens:

But where do we stop? Should we be  using Ynys Mon, Porthaethwy and Caergybi instead of their current names?

And I see that Abertawe are in 3rd place in the Championship..........

Post edited at 13:03
1
 toad 28 Sep 2020
In reply to Trangia:

Doogaloo! 

 ianstevens 28 Sep 2020
In reply to Tom Valentine:

Correct, we should be using of those.

 LakesWinter 28 Sep 2020
In reply to Stichtplate:

Why dont people walk round the queue?? Mental!!

 graeme jackson 28 Sep 2020
In reply to Run_Ross_Run:

> 'Mount Snowden'

> Where's that then? 


I believe it was Princess Margaret's favourite occupation. 

 PaulJepson 28 Sep 2020
In reply to Trangia:

I wonder how busy these places would be if it weren't for smart phones and social media?

To what extent are we going to these places to experience them and how much of it is for us to project?

I remember going to these places as a cub/scout 20+ years ago and you'd rarely see more than a couple of people with a flask of tea and a sarnie having a sit-down on the summit. Home computers and internet was just becoming a thing at that point and look at where we are now. 

I think the worst part about it is that it presents such a one-sided image. No one is posting photos of themselves drenched in a howling gale and having a horrible time. 

 Stichtplate 28 Sep 2020
In reply to LakesWinter:

> Why dont people walk round the queue?? Mental!!

They are queuing for a minute or so's uninterrupted time on the summit to take selfies. Any attempt to circumvent the queue and you risk the ire of the braying mob. Ultimate evidence that social media can rot the brain. 

Unfortunately this Summer seems to have seen the queue mentality spreading out from the summits, I've been variously tutted at for overtaking on the zig-zags, frowned upon after politely asking a bloke if I might use the stile he was sitting on and shouted at after bypassing a couple bum shuffling across Crib Goch (I was a good 3ft below them, well out of touching distance).

 GerM 28 Sep 2020
In reply to Tom Valentine:

Again it is a question of perspective isn't it? It would be impossible to use these instead of the current names, because they ARE the current names. They are only not if you speak English. All three are commonly used in Welsh, Sir Fôn often rather than Ynys Môn, sometimes just Môn, Caergybi generally, but Holyhead not unheard of, Menai Bridge is commonly heard, as is Porthaethwy, and the fair there is always Ffair Borth (commonly even in English!).

I originally replied to a comment asking where 'Mount Snowdon' was, when the questioner obviously knew full well, maybe they thought it should be called Snowdon instead. How is it so wrong to call it Mount Snowdon, Snowdonia or Mount Snowdonia when all are often used, and Snowdon is so correct? They are all just different names that have been imposed from elsewhere (albeit some being quite old), whereas Yr Wyddfa is a name that is of this place, has grown from the earth and is a link to the history and mythology of the mountain itself.

I am tolerant of the name Snowdon when used in an English context, intolerant of knowitall smartarses who think they are better than everyone else because they call it Snowdon rather than Mount Snowdon, and see no reason why it shouldn't be called Wyddfa at all, because that, simply, is it's name. And at the same time neatly sidesteps the whole Snowdon / Mount Snowdon issue altogether.

2
 danieleaston 28 Sep 2020
In reply to Trangia:

I can't understand how this is even a thing. Surely there are multiple ways up, surely the people coming up from the Rhyd Ddu side/ watkin side just appear on the summit without queuing?  How does this agreement come about every morning? Does the second group up in the morning automatically wait just shy of the top? I can see why people would join a queue if its there but the way that it forms is just fascinating to me.

Post edited at 14:53
 GerM 28 Sep 2020
In reply to PaulJepson:

And yet the mantra for at least those 20 years has been 'increasing participation in the outdoors'. This is what increased participation looks like.

 PaulJepson 28 Sep 2020
In reply to GerM:

It's not increased participation though, it's just concentrated, un-diluted participation, like ticking an 'adventure' box. I spent my formative years building jumps for bikes and skateboards, as did all the other kids. It doesn't seem to be about getting out, it seems to be about going somewhere that people will have heard of and getting some photos so your followers can see that you 'do things'. 

Why else are people not queuing up on Carnedd Llewelyn? It's only 20m shorter (caveat - I couldn't say whether it is more or less of a challenge than Snowdon in terms of walking). Most people haven't heard of Carnedd Llewelyn, that's why no one wants their photo on the summit of it. It's nothing to do with being outside and having a nice day on a hill, it's about getting kudos from your peers.  

1
 jas128 28 Sep 2020
In reply to danieleaston:

I went up the Rhyd Ddu path a couple of weeks ago mid week. There was a fairly steady stream of people while heading up, but everyone was very polite and friendly and most people were well equipped. There was a queue at the top which goes down the Llanberis path and is merely for selfies at the summit. My partner and I walked round the queue at the top to take a couple of pictures but definitely did not queue for the summit! No one had any issues as we made it clear we weren't trying to queue jump.

 lee birtwistle 28 Sep 2020
In reply to GerM:

We are just a nation full of f*cktards

Problem is its "Snowdon" - highest "plumbed in", toilet in Britain.

Thousands of other walks hills / fells where you will find it a bit quieter.

 PaulJepson 28 Sep 2020
In reply to lee birtwistle:

The podium really doesn't help either. Was it installed because otherwise the roof of the cafe would be the highest point? Knock it all down and have a plateau without a trig point. You can't queue for a summit if you're not sure where it is!

 The New NickB 28 Sep 2020
In reply to Stichtplate:

I was up there a few weeks before lockdown,  it was a bit different.

Seems longer than 6 months ago.


 GerM 28 Sep 2020
In reply to PaulJepson:

Exactly, all the encoragement to doing stuff outside is always through vested interests, and sporting organisations, where the emphasis is to do 'outdoor sports', like 'hillwalking', 'rock climbing', 'wild swimming' or 'paddleboarding', usually involving a substantial drive somwhere else to do it. Where all the benefits and more are to be had being outside, going for a walk, exploring or messing around, which can be done on a much smaller scale for most people, without the extensive consumption of resources. When people say they are 'outdoorsy', usually it means they are a massive hypocrite.

As a bit of an aside I've heard that Carnedd Llywelyn was thought for a time to be the highest mountain in Wales .

 lee birtwistle 28 Sep 2020
In reply to The New NickB:

Proper conditions. Similar to the last time I was up that way

 Stichtplate 28 Sep 2020
In reply to The New NickB:

> I was up there a few weeks before lockdown,  it was a bit different.

> Seems longer than 6 months ago.

I always thought it looked much nicer in white anyway.

If the public's newly invigorated interest in the hills extends into the Winter MRTs are going to be having a busy time of it. 

 mattck 28 Sep 2020
In reply to Trangia:

Am I alone in not seeing an issue here?

1
OP Trangia 28 Sep 2020

In reply :

Why selfies anyway? Aren't they just a form of narcissism? What's with all this ego worship? Whatever happened to modesty?  If I climb a hill with a mate I might take a pic of him or her on the top, particularly if the backdrop is interesting, but photos of myself taken by myself, why on earth do I want those? I climb a mountain for the pleasure it gives me, not to bore other people with pictures of me.

1
 Stichtplate 28 Sep 2020
In reply to Trangia:

> In reply :

> Why selfies anyway? Aren't they just a form of narcissism? What's with all this ego worship? Whatever happened to modesty?  If I climb a hill with a mate I might take a pic of him or her on the top, particularly if the backdrop is interesting, but photos of myself taken by myself, why on earth do I want those? I climb a mountain for the pleasure it gives me, not to bore other people with pictures of me.

Sometimes it's nice to capture a significant moment in time. However, queueing 2 hours to do this or taking endless shots of the same thing to get the 'perfect one' seems the antithesis of this and makes the whole thing seem rather hollow and pointless.

 Sean Kelly 28 Sep 2020
In reply to Trangia:

My thoughts entirely. An SLR does not really lend itself to 'selfies' a really horrible word in itself. What was wrong with self-portrait?

1
 gazhbo 28 Sep 2020
In reply to Tom Valentine:

> But where do we stop? Should we be  using Ynys Mon, Porthaethwy and Caergybi instead of their current names?

> And I see that Abertawe are in 3rd place in the Championship..........

Yeah - why not?  Those are their current names.

Plasynant 28 Sep 2020
In reply to lee birtwistle:

Indeed there are other walks/climbs, and here’s the evidence of how a load of selfish retards  park to get to them ! . 
 

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/video-shows-scale-snowdon...

 Tom Valentine 28 Sep 2020
In reply to gazhbo:

and north of the border - Dun Eideann, An Gearasdan and Eilean a Cheo? 

Better tell the Ordnance Survey, the AA  ( and the FA)

and if this becomes a fashion then surfers should familiarise themselves with the location and spelling of Tewynblustri  ( though your satnav might respond better to Newquay)

Post edited at 18:08
 muppetfilter 28 Sep 2020
In reply to Trangia:

I pushed my bike up a couple of weeks ago and interacted and chatted with a whole bunch of people as I went  . They were as broad a mix of society as you could get and I would say they were out for a day out and none said their primary reason was for a Summit photo. For a fair few it was their first walk up a "Big Mountain" , as a side note I was shocked and rather pleased at the lack of litter given the obvious number indicated by the erosion on the path.

 gazhbo 28 Sep 2020
In reply to Tom Valentine:

> and north of the border - Dun Eideann, An Gearasdan and Eilean a Cheo? 

> Better tell the Ordnance Survey, the AA  ( and the FA)

> and if this becomes a fashion then surfers should familiarise themselves with the location and spelling of Tewynblustri  ( though your satnav might respond better to Newquay)

It’s not “a fashion” to suggest that it’s appropriate for places in a given country to be referred to in the language of the country.  As others have pointed out, the English names for Welsh places are far more recent that the Welsh names, so if anything, that’s a fashion.  
 

You wouldn’t go to Europe and kick up a fuss that it’s confusing for Sevilla, Roma or Munchen to have different names than they do in English, or that you don’t understand the road signs, so why apply a different standard to Wales or Scotland.  
 

Clearly it’s appropriate for English names to be used as well but if anyone living in, or visiting Wales, is worried about being confused then it’s for them to familiarise themselves with Welsh names, not object to their use.

I don’t know enough about the situation in Cornwall but I suspect you are just drawing a false equivalence to try and make a point.  If, however, there is a significant proportion of Cornish speakers including a large number for whom it is a first language then yeah, maybe we should start using Cornish names for towns in Cornwall.

Post edited at 20:06
2
 Tom Valentine 28 Sep 2020
In reply to gazhbo:

I would like to see a Cornish person's reaction to my "false equivalence". 

Of course there's an argument for giving places their original names, but it's a minority argument and i suspect it will be a long time before Edinburgh, Glasgow , Cardiff and Swansea are renamed in their historical forms.

In the meantime people can continue to quibble. It's all fairly harmless.

Post edited at 20:39
3
 ianstevens 28 Sep 2020
In reply to gazhbo:

> It’s not “a fashion” to suggest that it’s appropriate for places in a given country to be referred to in the language of the country.  As others have pointed out, the English names for Welsh places are far more recent that the Welsh names, so if anything, that’s a fashion.  

> You wouldn’t go to Europe and kick up a fuss that it’s confusing for Sevilla, Roma or Munchen to have different names than they do in English, or that you don’t understand the road signs, so why apply a different standard to Wales or Scotland.  

> Clearly it’s appropriate for English names to be used as well but if anyone living in, or visiting Wales, is worried about being confused then it’s for them to familiarise themselves with Welsh names, not object to their use.

> I don’t know enough about the situation in Cornwall but I suspect you are just drawing a false equivalence to try and make a point.  If, however, there is a significant proportion of Cornish speakers including a large number for whom it is a first language then yeah, maybe we should start using Cornish names for towns in Cornwall.

Are there that many (any) Cornish first-language speakers? AFAIK the language died completely and was reconstructed with best-guesses including borrowing from Welsh. Two very different beasts really. 

 gazhbo 28 Sep 2020
In reply to Tom Valentine:

> I would like to see a Cornish person's reaction to my "false equivalence". 

> Of course there's an argument for giving places their original names, but it's a minority argument and i suspect it will be a long time before Edinburgh, Glasgow , Cardiff and Swansea are renamed in their historical forms.

> In the meantime, yeah, quibble away.

A quick google suggests that there are 3000 Cornish speakers, or about 0.05% of the population.  In Wales it’s around a third, including an increasing proportion of young people who converse primarily in Welsh.  So while a Cornish person may object do my comment they’d be unlikely to express it on Cornish.  

Even those who don’t speak Welsh will know Abertawe, Caerdydd, Cas Newydd, castell nedd etc.  They are generally given priority over their English equivalents.

Like it or not Welsh is in common use in Wales and it is enjoying a resurgence.  I don’t see why it’s controversial to suggest that Welsh names for Welsh places are acceptable ways to refer to them.

 gazhbo 28 Sep 2020
In reply to ianstevens:

> Are there that many (any) Cornish first-language speakers? AFAIK the language died completely and was reconstructed with best-guesses including borrowing from Welsh. Two very different beasts really. 

Well yeah, that was my point.

 Tom Valentine 28 Sep 2020
In reply to gazhbo:

I really don't have a problem with it and when Abertawe becomes better known as Abertawe than what most people call it nowadays then there'll be no more arguing.

 CampusBored 29 Sep 2020
In reply to Tom Valentine:

Completely disagree with both of your points here Tom, it's not a question of reverting to its original name / renaming in their historical forms - the Welsh language is prevalent throughout Wales, 'reverting' and 'historical' would suggest that we need to go back and resurrect a language that died a long time ago, which isn't the case as you fully know.

Ger mentioned it earlier on in the thread, it's a matter of perspective - 'most people' from my perspective would call places by their Welsh names and I can completely understand why 'most people' from your perspective would call Welsh place names by their English spellings, neither perspective is wrong, they're just different.

On the point of giving places their original names, that point really doesn't compute in my head - the Welsh language is inherently different to English, the etymology of the place names may have changed in each respective language, but you can't combine two different languages and come up with an 'original' - there is a native spelling and a translated spelling, no other variations, no other variation is needed.

 Tom Valentine 29 Sep 2020
In reply to CampusBored:

My mistake - I hadn't realised that Abertawe has such a wide usage. I'd be surprised if the majority of its residents referred to it by that name, though.

A Wesh language road atlas would actually be a very interesting buy but there doesn't seem to be one in publication.

Post edited at 08:59
2
 Glyn Davies 29 Sep 2020
In reply to ianstevens:

Im from Cornwall but of course am not a Cornish speaker. I am however a Welsh speaker. The Cornish and Welsh were not even distant relatives, they were the same people, and the language was exactly the same until the Celts got driven Westward, divided by the River Severn. Over the intervening 100s of years the language evolved slightly differently, but it is the same language that Welsh & Cornish spoke, hence when the Cornish language movement started (now with between 2000 & 3000 Cornish speakers I believe) they approached the Welsh bards and language experts for advice on pronunciation and so on.

i was down there last week and it was great to see Cornish place names alongside the more recent English names.  

Post edited at 09:19
 CampusBored 29 Sep 2020
In reply to Tom Valentine:

I'd probably agree with that statement, but again it's perspective based on the language spoken, they majoritively speak English in that region so it's to be expected and again there's nothing wrong with calling it Swansea (that's what it's called) - likewise, nothing wrong with calling it Abertawe (that's what it's called) - place names aren't dictated by their current inhabitants.

Even in my lifetime I've noticed subtle changes in the Welsh etymology, kids are watching more English based media (YouTube / Netflix) and the language is undeniably changing to more anglicized version every decade - this is an organic change and I wouldn't personally feel the need to protest or lobby against that sort of change, but I'm definitely opposed to non-organic changes when starting to discount the Welsh language in favour of English spellings, be it a reason of principle or ease of use.

My AA Road Atlas has the Welsh spellings next to the English spellings - which I'm personally grateful for, being that AA Publishing are an England based publisher.

 lee birtwistle 29 Sep 2020
In reply to Plasynant:

TBH I would be giving Snowdonia a miss at the minute. I can understand the locals not being too happy with the ignorance of some people.

 roddyp 30 Sep 2020
In reply to Plasynant:

Jeez, that's shocking. I'd expected the worst of the muppetry to be over by now.

Re. names - I'm told Snowdon comes from the Saxon "Snae Dun" (snowy hill). So "Mount Snowdon" makes as much sense as Mount Ben Nevis or Mount Scafell Pike.

Expect the BBC  to start calling it "Mount Yr Wyddfa" before long...

 Rob Exile Ward 30 Sep 2020
In reply to Trangia:

'Why selfies anyway? Aren't they just a form of narcissism? '

It's what young people do. I'm not a fan but I'm not 20 either.

I find the queues at the top of mountains quite sweet really, Pen y Fan has been transformed over the last dew years, and I think it's great to see so many people experiencing the outdoors. The queue for selfies is usually pretty good natured as well.

mysterion 30 Sep 2020
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

It's fine, just as long as people who don't want selfies are not excluded because selfies.

 GerM 30 Sep 2020
In reply to roddyp:

As I understand it (and it must be said that it is only by reading second hand accounts, rather a direct reading of the original latin) some of the earliest accounts to use the name Snaudune seem to use it for the range of mountains rather than an individual mountain, as a translation of the Welsh 'Eryri' (possibly as a mistranslation due to the similarity with the word 'eira'-snow, 'Eryri' apparently also being commonly misinterpreted as 'the place of eagles' due to the similarity with the word 'Eryr'- Eagle, whereas apparently it would be more accurately be 'the high place', and similarly the Eagle's name has a similar derivation as 'the bird of high places', and hence the confusion. No idea if the word 'eira' itself could have a similar origin as something that is found high up, there are certainly other words for snow, such as 'ôd').

Nennius wrote in 838 of Gwrtheyrn (Vortigern) crossing the mountains of Eryri (in English Snaudune), and Giraldus Cambrensis (Gerallt Gymro) wrote in 1191 I think, ‘Snaudune, id est nivium montes’ - Snaudune, that is the snowy mountainS.

Later the mountain itself came to be referred to as Snowdon hill.

My contention then is that to call Yr Wyddfa Snowdonia is actually closer (in terms of modern understanding of the term), to the way it was originally referred to as Snowdon (as the origins of the name Snowdon are a reference to the area not the moutain), and that to call it Mount Snowdon is actually more acurate in terms of the original meaning of the name Snaudune, and follows from quite an old tradition of calling it Snowdon Hill.

So like I said Snowdon, Mount Snowdon, Snowdonia, Mount Snowdonia, Snowdon Hill same difference, if you're happy with one why not another? The confusion seems as old as some of the oldest surviving written references ar least.

Yr Wyddfa works for me (feel free to explain the potential ambiguity of the term wyddfa if you wish!).

Post edited at 18:49
 apwebber 30 Sep 2020
In reply to Trangia:

I would also question whether a selfie taken from the summit cairn is distinguishable from a selfie taken from beside it...

 profitofdoom 30 Sep 2020
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

> 'Why selfies anyway? Aren't they just a form of narcissism?

Really? I don't at all want to argue, but just like to quote this from the Mayo Clinic, "Narcissistic personality disorder — one of several types of personality disorders — is a mental condition in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for excessive attention and admiration, troubled relationships, and a lack of empathy for others."

I thought people arriving somewhere they're enjoying just like a photo of themselves there? Not really narcissism by that definition.......

Thanks for listening

 Chopper 30 Sep 2020
In reply to GerM:

A cousin of mine visited Snowdonia for the first time about five years ago and ascended Snowdon on the train. When asked his impression he replied "It's a bit of a dump!". Similarly, some years previously, he'd on holiday on the Costa del Sol. Visiting one of the White Villages he was heard to describe it as "a bit of dump". So often does he describe places as "a bit of a dump" it's now a family joke.

 roddyp 30 Sep 2020
In reply to GerM:

> Yr Wyddfa works for me (feel free to explain the potential ambiguity of the term wyddfa if you wish!).

Thanks, that's me enlightened I stumbled on this which adds yet more layers...! https://sublimewales.wordpress.com/attractions/snowdon/snowdon-the-nature-o...

 Neil Williams 01 Oct 2020
In reply to profitofdoom:

> I thought people arriving somewhere they're enjoying just like a photo of themselves there? Not really narcissism by that definition.......

True.  People used to get someone else to take their photo, with front-facing cameras you no longer need to.  That's most of it.

If you just want a photo of the view from Snowdon (subject to availability ) then Google is your friend.

Removed User 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Trangia:

As a local and a Hill Walker, I have been following these incidents with a wry smile on my face.

I have  been up there just a few times in the past and find the queuing thing a bit strange. I can remember sitting around the summit cairn, usually in the mist,  dining on choccie biccies and coffee whilst waiting for the “photo opportunity” for my clients. Folk would just wander up to the top, snap a piccie and wander down again, to finish off their lunch.

It might be that folk new to the hills have seen the pictures of “mountaineers” queuing for the summit of Everest ( or should that be Chomo Lungma ? ) and have decided to copy them as they think that is the correct thing to do on any hilltop. Others follow suit, because they are not accustomed to normal behaviour at the top. Then the MSM gets hold of it and blows it all up into a furore. Probably why they think it’s okay to take a dump at the top, too.

After all, those of us that like wandering around in the mountains are often perceived as being “a bit weird” anyway, so it fits the narrative. Fortunately I strolled up “Mount Snowdonia” back in the days when dinosaurs roamed the earth and FaceBook wasn’t invented... and as someone pointed out, if they are all at the top here, then they are not elsewhere in the Park - all 240,000 square hectares of it. My pals and I tend to avoid this place like the plague until the winter, when it gets much more interesting up there.

just my tuppence h’appeny...

1
 Duncan Bourne 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Stichtplate:

We saw queues like that on a bank holiday weekend a few years back. It was weird we ascended a ridge behind Ynys Ettws with no one in sight. picked our way amongst the strung out line of people on Crib Coch. Marvelled at the huge queue going up to the summit and descended a second ridge devoid of people. This weekend we climbed on Galt yr Ogof and had the entire mountain to ourselves. people are weird.

1
 GrahamD 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Duncan Bourne:

Takes all sorts - I guess many people might find it odd wanting not to be with other people.


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