UKH

I'm looking at completing my ML training. It states 20 days UK must be completed.  I'm curious as to why the rest of Europe etc aren't also permitted.  With the Alps on our doorstep, relatively, it seems on face value a little dismissive to not be able to include other countries.  Especially given that in other countries we can reach higher more remote areas and broaden our experience. What are people's take / understanding? 

My understanding is that assessors would be very happy to see some of that broader experience in your logbook but that since the qualification is for leading within the UK, it makes sense to demand that at least the minimum experience is in UK conditions. The Alps might offer more challenge than the UK in some ways but they're also different challenges.

The alps have more waymarking and paths, weather more settled etc. 

As stated above, experience in the alps is totally relevant, and your trainer and assessor absolutely love to see that you have a broad range of experience, however the award is for the UK. If you don't understand the differences in the walking, go and do your required 20 days (minimum) in the UK and then you will get it. 

They are different places, and leaders in each environment need different skills.

Have fun doing it! It's  great qualification and I think it might have been my favourite training course.

Hi Luke, thanks

Fully appreciate that, but surely some allowance could be made. For example 20 days (max 3 outside UK). You're right UK conditions can be very different.  But nav is nav, judging weather still takes place, I'm sure you see where I'm going here.  It's good to hear others opinions though.im just of the opinion that the more experience an individual has the better all round they become and why not take into account (for assessment purposes) at least some outside UK experience. 

You can count overseas stuff (up to 50%) if it is similar to uk terrain. The Alps isn’t, some of Norway for example is.

Im an ML provider and here’s a link to the ML FAQs: http://www.mountain-training.org/walking/skills-and-awards/mountain-leader/...

Thanks GM

I was just using the Alps as an example but I really meant anywhere. Fully see your point regards waymarking though.

Yeah Looking forward to It!!

Thanks!!

Now that makes perfect sense!!!!

Hi Jez.

Here's a question you may know the answer also.  Would it include a days multipitch climbing at some of the Tryfan classics?

Looking at the description of a QMD it doesn't specify if walking with climbing is included?

Thanks 

Simon 

For me that’s a climbing day so no.

I guess ask yourself what was the main focus of the day. If the answer is climbing it prob isn’t a qmd.

I would think that multipitch on Tryfan or long enchainments leading to say one of the Glyder summits ought to count, providing you're on the hill for more than 4 hours.

The specified days/routes/Ski tours etc in pre and post training for most outdoor awards are there to reflect the minimum amount of experience that will help most people reach the required level to pass the assessment. I would suggest looking to cut corners is a recipe for disaster,, disrespecting the schemes and presenting yourself as arrogant to trainers and assessors who are mostly keen to help you become more proficient and generally enjoy the total experience. I speak as someone who initially failed his ML assessment because of just this attitude. I think good rock climbers in particular often misunderstand what is required of the ML Award . 

Plus 20 days of hill-walking is not a lot to ask 

A day out in the alps is absolutely nothing like a claggy day in some blank moorland area of Scotland. The skills required for each are important but very different. The ml is all about the navigation. 

By no means am I trying to cut any corners and to be fair I'm not far off 20 QMD as it stands. I'm merely opening up for clarification what is classed, in finer details and the reasons, which I now understand. For someone who hasn't completed the training yet it seemed a little unclear. But now I fully understand which if I'd not raised the question I wouldn't have so I thank everyone for their responses

Damp, soggy, boggy, unmarked, misty, rainy, uncertain weather, low visibility, difficult navigation, rights of way issues, OS maps, etc - doesn't sound very continental!