UKH

I have a little bit of fear of heights - but in fact it's more like fear of sharp drops. Height itself is not an issue unless there's a risk of sharp drop

Would Striding Edge / Swirral Edge hike be suitable to me? I saw bunch of videos and it looks like the drops from either side of the ridge is NOT that steep - ie it's not like you can fall to death. But videos can be misleading so happy to hear your views!

I see there's always a walk at a lower path on Swirral edge - so I was under the impression that you can't really "fall" per se but more like roll down in case you lose balance

You should be fine on a dry summer's day - if the two ridges were fitted into the standard scrambling-grade system then Striding would probably be 0.5 and Swirral less than that. (The top bit of Swirral is notorious when there's still a band of old snow, but that's not likely to be the case over the next while.) However I'd say it's markedly easier for someone of a nervous disposition if done as an anti-clockwise circuit: up Swirral, over the top of Helvellyn then "down" Striding, although Striding Edge is basically level once you're on it. The most awkward bit of the whole thing is a little rocky chimney on Striding, and most people (me included) find that easier to ascend than descend, which is the case if heading away from Helvellyn.

Both ridges are less serious than Sharp Edge on Blencathra, but as with anything it's a case of taking care and waiting for suitable conditions. Have a good time when you do it - it'll be busy almost certainly, but it's always a good day out. It's also worth diverting a short way to the summit of Catstycam before tackling Swirral - it's a nice summit and a good viewpoint.

Falls resulting in deaths have occurred from both ridges, although mainly in winter conditions. 

Pick a day with good weather, allow plenty of time and enjoy the walk. If you find you don't fancy the descent down then there are alternative routes to the north and south to get back to Glenridding.

thank you both

scrambling is not an issue (in fact I enjoy it) - only the near-vertical drops are the problem

from vertical drops perspective - how would you compare this route to crib goch (which I never attempted but saw videos) or tryfan (I went back right before summit as there was what seemed to be big vertical drop)

Striding edge is considerably less exposed than Crib Goch (and Swirrel Edge less exposed still). Compared to the normal route up the north ridge of Tryfan there is probably a little more exposure but there is very little hands on rock, other than the previously mentioned step - which I agree is easier if you go Swirrel then Striding.  

Overall it will probably feel less intimidating than Tryfan north ridge, its about as mild as scrambling gets. The avoiding the massive crowds if you are going this weekend will probably be the biggest challenge!

Just to add to your original post - you wouldn't want to fall off from either, the consequences would be very serious. But then you wouldn't want to fall off the pavement on a busy road, its all risk!

I'll indeed go this weekend and weather looks lovely. So hopefully I'll manage despite crowds

Sorry you were mentioning it's easier to start from Swirral than Striding?

In that case I'd plan on starting early as possible for the most enjoyable experience. 

Yes, only because as a previous poster has said, the only tricky section is a short step at the end of striding edge that must be downclimbed if going striding > swirrel. Its easier to climb up it so going swirrel > striding will be a bit more straightforward.

As you say Swirral>Striding is best VERY early or VERY late in the day, you will be meeting a constant stream of people going the other direction on a busy day which will be a royal PITA, it will be stuffed full this weekend.

I've never really understood why Striding-Swirral seems to be the more popular / more traditional direction, given that (to me at least) Swirral-Striding feels more natural and is certainly a little easier in most conditions. But it does seem to be much more often tackled clockwise - maybe folk are wary of / superstitious about doing things widdershins!

Incidentally, years ago on a nice dry day I decided to see if I could get down Swirral without using my hands. I'm too tall to be nimble, but I managed it - so on that basis it's not a scramble at all. Don't think I could do that now, however - with age comes stiffness and general creakiness.

thank you everyone. I understand this is not necessarily a knife edge. Since I have no issues with scrambling itself and weather is going to be nice this weekend we will likely to attempt his. It will be the day after Scafell Pike via Mickledore so hopefully I would be well trained

one more thing - what's the "bad step" on striding edge and where is it exactly? Is there anything I should be aware of on this?

The 'bad step' on Striding is just a short section where you have to scramble down a short bit. It's not hard but very polished so just take it easy and be careful

Honestly you're better off doing blancehtra 

interesting I heard the opposite. It's a shorter but more exposed scramble no?

It's not much harder its a bit of a better route imo

Helvellyn is more of a walk 

Sharp Edge is more of easy scramble with a good ridge 

maybe on that point, how wide is the ridge on striding edge when there's exposure? I saw videos of crib goch being quite narrow so that some people have to walk on the "side" using the ridge as rail with one hand

Is this similarly narrow or can you actually "have a walk" on striding edge?

safer to keep to the crest on Swirral - some bad accidents have happened when people have thought it safer to bypass, particularly on the Brown cove/Keppel Cove side.  The rock on the crest, in the dry is straightforward - choose your day for dryness and no strong winds and you'll be fine.  Just take your time and relax on it.  I agree about Striding being more straightforward on an anticlockwise circuit - have observed people wondering what to do to get down that chimney dozens and dozens of times over and it is straightforward in ascent - our boys did it in icy winter conditions quite young and fully geared up, anticlockwise

Striding Edge is a lot less serious than Crib Goch and a lot shorter.  However, that still does not mean that you shouldn't respect it.  Far more fun in the dry though - it can still sting, particularly in the wet.

Not sure that is great advice for somebody who doesn't like precipitous drops. My memory of Sharp Edge is a short and undistinguished bit of ridge followed by a greasy angled slab with probably fatal drops, then a loose wet gully where everything sloped the wrong way. And a distinct lack of views until you are nearly on the top. 

There is a path which is on the Red tarn side of Striding Edge I walked 13 regular walkers along it. But I think sticking to the crest is actually safer (and more fun) as you always have something to grab hold of. The path is very easy but no stumbling is allowed. I watched a labrador get down the "Bad Step" ok. Like in a lot of places the easier going has the worst run-outs.

Striding edge is far from vertical on it's sides but has significant exposure and big crowds on good weekends. I'd support much of the advice so far...if exposure rather than vertically is your problem maybe postpone. Otherwise, tourists do this all the time and you will be fine.

I agree going up Swirral and down Striding needs a quiet day, I'm not totally convinced its even easier that way, when crowded its a real pain.  Blencathra via Sharp Edge wouldn't be a better choice in my view as its more tricky.

Up swirral, down dollywagon. More walking, but no exposure descending. Why take the risk if you aren't happy. Hills are for enjoyment. 

listening all the advice here, and from my girlfriend who doesn't want me to be a pain (lol), we will probably do hopegill head, whiteside, grisedale pike one day and scafell via wasdale and micklemore the other day

No-one has answered the 'where is it' question. Assuming you're going clockwise it's the very last bit of Striding Edge; A short. easy climb down to the saddle before the climb up to Hellvellyn.  If you've managed the so called Bad Step on the crinkles then this one will present no difficulties.

Crib Goch is not that narrow either. You (I) can run all the top of it. It looks 10000x times worse on video, because these things are often filmed with a Gopro which have extreme distortion at the edges.

As for Striding Edge, you could lie down perpendicularly to the ridgeline with no trouble at all.

maybe it's the video but it doesn't really look like you can lie down perpendicularly here and it definitely looks sharp on edges

youtube.com/watch?v=nNK_sf7xYZM&t=37

Just do it. Think on... Wainwright did it. 

I've helped people 'stuck' with vertigo on both ridges. Please don't trivialise exposure and how some people respond to it. I'd be more worried about that than the short scramble 'downclimb' (just before the ridge meets the summit slopes) that is normal difficulty for what you meet on grade 1 scrambles.

That's exactly the kind of video distortion I was talking about. Go up, have a look, and if you don't like it just have a plan B in mind. 

Having done Sharp Edge again yesterday I'd disagree it's suitable for someone who doesn't enjoy steep drops to either side.

Apologies if you think I'm trivialising. It's because I find them trivial, and very much struggle to get into the mindset of people who don't. In the wet/winter they can indeed be unfriendly, but in the summer in the dry, I suspect crossing the road is more dangerous, even though Crib Goch/Striding Edge may feel more dangerous.

Haha, for a great example of gopro exaggeration compare the view down to the view along.

​​​​​​(the view along is how it actually is)

Come on Ian you're a really intelligent chap and can read up on vertigo and the link to panic. Vertigo has even been a blight on many serious climbers, due to inner ear/brain problems.

https://www.nhsinform.scot/illnesses-and-conditions/ears-nose-and-throat/ve...

Wainwright did some quite hard stuff, though - he tended to downplay it, possibly for comedy effect. He got up Easy Gully on Pavey Ark, for instance, which I've heard suggested is the hardest thing in any of the seven pictorial guides.

As to the question of whether Swirral-Striding is easier than Striding-Swirral, I'm swayed in this by having gone round anticlockwise with my better half who loves the hills but would happily avoid all scrambling. She got up the Striding Edge chimney with a bit of coaxing and prodding by me and the much-missed Ann Bowker, but I can't conceive that we'd have managed it clockwise, ie going down the chimney.

I am similar to you.  I am fine with heights but suffer from exposure on narrow ridges or traversing paths with a steep drop to the side.  Some of the people replying will not suffer similar and when they say it is easy they will not necessarily understand how it feels.  Yes, physically it is easy but not necessarily mentally.

I have walked Striding Edge and Swirral Edge many times in summer and winter conditions and feel confident doing them now.  However, in the past I have backed off Striding Edge.  The first parts (going anticlockwise) are ok and the exposure grows so you can easily turn around if you are not feeling ok.  Don't be worried about turning around and do it sooner rather than later if you are feeling ok.  Many do.

Typically I go up Striding Edge and then down Swirral Edge but have done the reverse.  I find the exposure ok and you can hold onto something pretty much the whole way (for me being able to use my hands is key).  But, there are parts where you do feel exposed and the drops pretty steep.  Whichever way you go I find the going down bits the hardest - coming off the top of Helvellyn to either Striding Edge or Swirral Edge.  The exposure on Swirral Edge is much shorter.

As for the step on Striding Edge.  If you are downclimbing it will feel disconcerting as in my view downclimbing is always a bit strange.  I find it difficult to judge the distance to footholds and you do feel you could fall if you misplace a foot.  I think this is mainly psychological and have never had an issue - get someone to go down before you and point out the footholds.  It is definitely easier climbing up it though (but you will be going against the main flow of people).

As summo suggested, up Swirral and down Dollywagon is a nice walk and will get you used to some of what it would be like to do the whole Striding/Swirral circuit.  It will always be there as you grow in confidence.

Despite everything above, when you do decide to do it you will have an amazing experience.  It took me years to get up the courage to do Crib Goch.  I was in North Wales for a few days and the weather was amazing so it felt then or never.  I had one or two wobbles on it (psychological not physical) but was buzzing for days after.  It has to be one of my all time mountain days.  So do Striding/Swirral when you feel the time is right for you.  Pick a really nice day with supportive partners and preferably a quiet time when not many people are around - that way you can take your time and not feel pressured (there will always be some people if you get into difficulties and need help).  It will be an amazing experience and hopefully will be something you build on (CMD Arete to Ben Nevis is similar but longer and a great day and perhaps eventually Crib Goch).

much appreciated - thanks for that. very thoughtful and detailed response

I appreciate go pro videos make it look much worse. If you look at a regular photo below, it looks like you can't really "fall" but more like "roll" (although still unpleasant). But I'm not sure that's the right characterization

https://cdn.onebauer.media/one/media/5ffd/b421/a40e/874f/69a0/1429/STRIDING...

If you don't suffer from exposure you will find it very difficult to understand what it is like.  Even though I know I am safe and competent at doing Crib Goch/Striding Edge etc and have done them before (many times in the case of Striding Edge) I still get some exposure on them.  I have to control my emotions.  I have backed off Striding Edge and had to sit down on both in safeish parts to collect myself.  For me I have two issues: 1. my imagination comes up with lots of horrible things, I can visualise myself falling and my mind takes over common sense; and 2. I sometimes get the urge to just jump to see what it would be like.  Common sense takes over but my worry is that one day the impulse will override common sense.

So, not directed to just yourself, when replying to people with a similar question related to exposure try to put yourself in their mind.  Be careful when replying, not to make things sound too simple (everyone knows that some people do struggle with Striding Edge). Provide the facts and encouragement but do not trivialise (even when you think you are not trivialising).  It is also worth bearing in mind that many (most?) people replying will be experienced hill walkers/climbers/mountaineers.  Your sense of exposure will have shifted over time as you have build up experience.  For the first timer doing Striding Edge who has had little similar experience and suffers from exposure it is a very different experience.

Do you really think people on here don't understand what exposure feels like?

To break it down, Striding Edge might have high subjective risk for a beginner but it has low objective risk whether you are a beginner or experienced.

That's what people on here are saying, there is low objective risk. That demons in your head stuff is subjective, not objective.

Up Striding Edge, down Dollywaggon and then up Fairfield and down by St Sunday Crag is an excellent day out (in good weather, otherwise it would be a bit of a grind).

I keep my eyes open on what other parties are up to and in many hundreds of outings I can say that most parties seem to manage Striding Edge in good weather, it is after all and always has been regarded  as an adventurous walkers route, like Swirral Edge.  The weather is crucial as there is nothing like wind and damp rock to turn what can be a pleasure into an ordeal for the nervous.  Far more people I've seen having real problems on Sharp Edge and more particularly when their level of experience is not up to the conditions.

It is objectively harder and definitely a place where a rope correctly used could help with extremely nervous people, though one could well argue it isn't a place for the nervous unless they are also determined to beat their nerves.

In warm dry weather it is a delight as are the steeper slabs above to scamper up, given the confidence, far better than the horrid gully to the right.  We took the kids up the slabs when very young but roped and helmeted and they loved it.

Hi guys OP here. Just to let you guys know- I did helvellyn via striding edge and swirral edge today

It was quite benign, scare factor maybe 3/10 for someone like me who has irrational fear of drops. I felt like there’s not really any immediate drop on either side for most of the time and whenever there may be one, you can generally stay well away as the path is reasonably wide. There was certainly no razor edge walking or anything like that

Downclimb is just a bit tricky but nothing scary (no exposure whatsoever)- all you have to figure out is where to step for one or two steps. There were a few walking guides there today who were kindly helping people but it’s VERY doable by yourself

Swirral edge - no exposure whatsoever, almost boring down climb

Thanks for all comments. If someone with fear of exposure is reading this- as someone who couldn’t finish tryfan north ridge because of fear of exposure, this was almost a walk in the park on a dry(ish) day without wind