UKH

Went walking up Aonach Beag and Mor yesterday from Glen Nevis in perfect walking conditions. Great hill day. Planned to stop at the visitor centre to use the toilets before heading onto the hill, however, when I got there, cars were queuing to get into the already full carpark, so I passed on by and had to hold on. On my return at the end of the day found that the toilets shut at 4.pm. What good is that? If the government/local authorities/local communities don't want visitors to make a disgusting mess of honeypot areas they will have to step up and provide facilities that are open 24/7. Bodily functions don't run to other people's schedules. Gave Morrisons some custom and made use of their facilities on the way home.

Further up the Glen I was going to park at the last carpark. That was full. I was lucky enough to get onto a verge further down the Glen. I don't have a solution to the parking problems there but people were parking in passing places which made for some frustration on a busy day. Better signage in passing places would help some visitors to better understand the rules of the road.

There were some quite big groups on the lower paths that seemed uncaring or oblivious to the covid rules. Some would stand in the middle of paths and make no effort to create space when I approached. It's like some people are oblivious to COVID, the 2m rule and common courtesy.

My last negative for the day: There were several "parties" camping at the top of the Glen near the Steall falls. No problem with  that if they left no trace, however, on my way back there were a couple of "visitors" with axes, chopping at live standing trees, presumably to collect firewood. I was agog, angry, disappointed and disgusted.

That's it really. It was a great day to be on the hill. People/having respect/regard for others and the environment would have made it better, as would authorities/planers making better provision for visitors and tourists.

Cheers. 

In reply to Alec:

It was a funny weekend just gone.

We left our accommodation in Arisaig where the beach was full of campers. The site was full. Ft William seemed quiet but from Glencoe to Balloch, the traffic and volume of  visitors was nose to tail. An awful drive.

Maybe it was the nice weather or the threat of further lockdown as it wasn’t like that the weekend before travelling up.

Perhhaps it’s prudent not to visit honeypot areas until the clocks go back, weather turns, and folk feck off back to doing whatever they normally do? 

In reply to Dave the Rave:

My guess is everyone’s expecting travel restrictions this week so get a day or two in while you can.

In reply to Toccata:

Unfortunately these idiots haven't cottoned on to the fact that the virus doesn't work to a calendar or timetable

In reply to Trangia

Quite.

I had a wander down my local high street this afternoon. Lots of people in the pubs, pedestrians making no attempt to avoid me, shoppers in Waitrose making little effort to keep apart. I sense a certain amount of complacency. Infections are rising fast in Edinburgh and I've got a horrible feeling the shit is going to hit the fan next week.

Re Glen Nevis, yes it's not surprising it's busy and you should really avoid public bogs. Cutting live wood though is inexcusable. Pricks.

In reply to Alec:

The Lakes is the same, full of total bellends, some bright spark has cut all the sapling stakes down to then ground near Small Water for a campfire, I’m hoping they all do one as soon as winter arrives.

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

You’ve saved me a thread, thanks.

Still bad there then? Was contemplating a wild camp up near Small Water soon. Avoid?

In reply to Alec:

A very justified moan Alec.

I fully agree that the toilet situation in Glen Nevis is very poor. I liked a suggestion that I read on another forum that goes like this; Scotland has enough tourists (and at times and in certain places, too many). Visit Scotland should now spend their marketing budget, which in 2019 was over £45 million, on facilities such as toilets, litter bins and parking places. This seems like a great idea to me.

With regard to traffic and parking, it was planned to have a regular bus service in Glen Nevis this year but unfortunately Covid has postponed it but hopefully it will start next year and help the situation to some extent.

The path issue is the same on every busy path. Social distancing on the Ben Nevis path has been very poor at times. Three simple rules would help considerably; 1) Keep to the left, 2) Stop at the side where others have space to pass, 3) Allow faster walkers space to pass.

As far as fires go I think that we need to change the message from 'Leave no trace' to 'No fires'. Many (most?) people think that making a fire within a ring of stones is the right thing to do. Rather than try and educate them to leave no trace it would be better to discourage all fires; bring a stove if you want to cook and wear more/warmer clothes if you're cold.

Glad to hear you had a good day once you got beyond Steall and the masses.

In reply to Dave the Rave:

Was a while back since I was up there but I can’t imagine it’s got any better, so If you like scorched earth and shite under all the boulders then go for it!

Probably alright over the back of the tarn?

Seems to be anywhere within striking distance of a road has been turned into a chav party camp.

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

That’s such a shame. That was my second wild camp ever years ago and it was still great last year. My daughter loves it there and she has caught newts in the Tarn since she was 6. It’s her eighteenth this weekend so will probably avoid.

Thanks for the info. 

In reply to Alec:

A few observations as a local. 

Nevis Landscape Partnership have funding for a shuttle service to the Steall carpark in the summer months (May-Oct I think). It was due to start this summer but... well covid. They have the funding secured, so hopefully will begin next year. A positive step forward. 

Steall Falls is notorious for some pretty unsociable behaviour. I would like to see increased signage in the Glen + the national message to be no fires rather than a more mixed message. These honeypot areas are really suffering this summer. The answer is a mix of things: outdoor learning embedded in our education system, more rangers on the ground and enforcement of existing laws. We can but dream!

Agree on toilets. Highland Council/Highlife Highland are imploding as organisations - both in terms of finance and leadership. Their approach to toilets is backward and depressing (and infrastructure to support tourism and local communities in general) . Facemasks and wet wipes have been my two most common items collected in the glen in the last months. It's easy to become depressed. Nevertheless, I see a whole community of people out regularly tidying and caring for the glen- so I'll remain hopeful.

As for the Ben path, unless working, I would avoid for now. 

As an aside, it's perfectly easy for most people to cycle into the Glen, even to the top is a pleasant 40 minutes from town. People can't complain about the carpark being full when they DRIVE up the Glen. The police have had to tow vehicles from the glen on a number of occasions this summer-- blocking access to the cemetery is the most selfish of acts.

In reply to Dave the Rave:

I was taken aback by the amount of people about. Over the last couple of months on the hills I've visited, I've either had them to myself or have been able to count them on one hand.

Most of the hills I want to do now are further North so they should be quieter. Plus, we're heading into autumn so things will naturally quiten down and I can stop moaning.

Fingers crossed for a vaccine soon.

In reply to Alec:

Cutting down live trees is not just inexcusable but also pretty ignorant. I assumed anyway who lit a fire would know green wood is crap to burn. 

I took Friday off and went camping on a remote graham on the west coast. Saw one person when I was nearly back at the start on Saturday. I've never seen anything close to the number of cars parked near the start of every 'munro walk' or hotspot and the traffic heading north as I returned to Glasgow was mental. I would not have wanted to be returning later that day. 

In reply to gavmac:

Nice reply gavmac. A shuttle bus would be/is a great idea. Provided there was adequate car parking further down the Glen I'd be happy for the road higher up to be shut to cars, but open for walkers, cyclists and shuttle buses.

My drive up in the morning was 3 hours, the walk 8, spent an hour or so in town before another long drive home. It was a good but long day. If I cycled in the 40 mins you suggested it would add about another 1.5 hours total on to the day (cycle both ways and pfaff about with bike). So for arguments sake, because of that, I might have come up the night before and slept at a car park with... no toilets...

Must be so frustrating for the locals to be left with the mess, but from me, thank you so much for caring and tyding up. 

In reply to Alec:

What an absolute disgrace to cut down live trees and saplings.

In reply to Alec:

Yes, total understand on the journey + cycle. It does add a logistical element and time/faff. I think the shuttle is the longer term answer for the busy summer months and, of course, longer hours at the visitor centre toilets. 

There are some great organisations/volunteers working in Glen Nevis. Friends of Nevis/ Nevis Landscape Partnership /John Muir Trust have litter picks, path maintenance and conservation days that volunteers can join. Well worth it. 

In reply to Alec:

Plenty of people camping and using the outdoors who otherwise wouldn't be. That's fine in itself, but doing things like cutting down trees etc is upsetting.

We camped at a farm in Sussex where some of the pitches were in woodland and both nights groups kept us up til the early hours by drinking, playing music, shouting and drunkenly stumbling round our pitch snapping branches off live trees for firewood (they weren't prepared enough to come with an axe at least). I found listening to the branches being snapped off pretty upsetting but didn't see the point in getting out of the tent to try to argue with a very drunk person.

We complained to the owner who was apologetic but didn't seem to think there was much they could do about this. Guess they make more money off large groups than quiet couples.

In reply to gavmac:

Picking up the cemetery problems, at least two funerals have not been able to get in for burials due to the entrance being blocked by parked vehicles.

people have been observed moving police no parking cones to park on the pavement. A nightmare if you’re in a wheelchair or pushing a pram. 
 

😢😢😢

In reply to Alec:

The obsession with the new breed of "wild campers" in making a "camp fire" is really doing my head in.

Why are people so obsessed with making fires?

In reply to FreeloaderJoe:

It's good for the Instagram.

In reply to FreeloaderJoe:

I've seen a Facebook group called "you didn't sleep / camp there" or similar. Normally involving a abnormally high number of MSR tents pitched without their flysheet in front of a dramatic scene. 

The fact that the raging waterfall / exposed ledge / other features detrimental to a good nights sleep would dent the credibility of one's social media post goes otherwise unchallenged.

In reply to FreeloaderJoe:

West coast docharty bagging - for once did not see a single fire ring - just as it should be. Hill empty apart from the massive industrial activity on its flanks.  Very enjoyable couple of nights, thanks to walking in a bit from the road.

Glencoe and the A85 below Ben More were busier than I have ever seen.

In reply to FreeloaderJoe:

Because there really is something magical about sitting around a fire on a chilly evening. Looking into the flames, a drink in hand, good conversation. It's deep within us as humans; goes back to the dawn of time.

In reply to Alec:

The selfishness of people these days belies belief. Just watched Ambulance on TV. A tw-t in a van refused to get out of the way to let an ambulance out of a residential street with a dying patient inside. It was obvious to anyone with half a brain what was happening. It took a  relative screaming at him "my fathers dying " to get him to move. 

It was on film he should have been charged with obstruction and fined heavily. We are way too soft on these types.

In reply to Alec:

last weekend was a perfect storm for people to get out. was at linn of dee on saturday when the overflow carpark was overflowing. but this is not a moan- the NT were doing a great job at managing the situation and the main car park had an auto hand-sanitiser, compost toilet building and multiple portaloos and i didn't see any campers lighting a fire..

In reply to Robert Durran:

I think some education is needed on camp fires.

Personally I never see the point having, as a scout, spent a week at a time having to cook on the bloody things and spent evenings since then sitting in front of one with a freezing back, smoke filled eyes and still being bitten by midges but whatever, each to their own.

People need to understand that cutting down live trees is completely unacceptable and fires should be be properly sited with turf removed and replaced before and after. The "leave nothing but footprints, take nothing but photographs" message needs to be driven home.

In reply to Removed User: you could argue the firemakers are looking for deadwood and it's the climbers who are cutting down live trees to open up new crags?

In reply to Alec:

Open question to all - how could we/they make maintaining a toilet work better? 
 

Generally let’s say they take around an hour to clean and restock per day so the challenge is really finding people able to travel some distance daily for an hours work. This example is based on an actual shift used for one of Angus Councils more remote loos btw. 
 

As is often the case, local authorities only have them open at the weekends - which leads to ‘fly craping’ as that’s subject to availability of cleaners to maintain them (see above). 
 

Genuine question - what would others do if they could change the typical criteria/limitations? 

In reply to Tobes:

A fair number of road side toilets in Norway are long drop / natural composter types. Although basic they do the job. If needs be someone can come and drop sawdust (or whatever is used) in a few times a week. Cheaper to install, no need for closing after 5pm and would help solve various problems.

IMHO the real honeypot sites like Glencoe and Glen Nevis should have free toilets open 24/7. Concentrating the demand of non-outdoors oriented visitors, encouraging them to come and then expecting everyone to act responsibly when they're used to an urban environment is asking for trouble. 

As others have said education can work, but a big sign at the start of Glen Nevis stating prohibited actions (tree cutting, fire pits etc) with a clear £500 fine warning would do wonders.

In reply to Alec:

The OP doesn't seem to realise he is part of the car parking problem by arriving there in a car themself!

In reply to lpretro1:

Quite