UKH

I did a solo round of the 4 Glen Lyon Munros 6 years ago, and came across signs and notices erected by the North Chesthill Estate, worded to deter walkers from accessing these hills. Needless to say I was not deterred, because I wasn't violating any restricted access during the stalking season. In fact, the Estate 'owner' seems to be violating Scottish Access Laws.

Does anybody know if there are still problems, or have the access issues been resolved? 

A group of friends have asked me about accompanying them on this walk in May next year, and I don't want their day to be ruined by the apparent selfish, small-minded pettiness of this landowner.

Glen Lyon has been notorious about trying to put people off (as long as I can remember). They are just hoping that people who don't know the access laws will go/keep away...Should be fine.

That estate is notorious.

I would personally go out of my way to do anything the notices told me not to do.

When they instruct you to only walk the hills in an anti-clockwise (I think it was) direction, they clearly cannot be taken seriously.

It's not Glen Lyon, just that particular estate. The notices even suggest you go away and do hills on other neighbouring estates instead!

There are still the dubious signs, and he has still made little attempt to tidy up the clear-felled area to reinstate the path, but other than that, there's no issue really, other than the relative lack of parking.

Some people react against his request to walk clockwise, but to me, it's a logical way round anyway, so will be the way I go again on my next round.

The most obviously obstructive thing he does imo is to refuse to answer the phone when calling to check about stalking, (unless I have just been unlucky when calling?), but again, stick to the path and it's not an issue.

Have walked there many times (summer and winter) with no problems. You can check  https://www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/practical-guide-all/heading-scottis... prior to your trip.

Current wording for Glen Lyon: 

South of ridge, including the normal approach from Invervar: North Chesthill Estate.

Occasional stalking from mid-Aug, but particularly from early Sept to 20 Oct. This unusually confined estate (in a popular area with four Munros) presents exceptional challenges for stalking, as it is very difficult for hill walkers to avoid causing disturbance. Walkers are being encouraged to plan ahead and walk elsewhere on days when stalking is taking place during the peak stalking season between 1st Sept and 20 Oct. In general staying on the ridges, avoiding the corries and going clockwise from Invervar round the four Munros will help prevent deer from being moved off the estate. If further information is needed please email info@chesthill.com

North of Meall Garbh-Cairn Mairg ridge: Innerhadden Estate. Stalking between late Sept and 20 Oct. No stalking on Sundays. If further information is needed please phone 01882 632423 or 07917 120429, or e-mail richard@innerhadden.co.uk.

Western slopes of Geal Charn (NN682545): Dalchosnie Estate. Stalking between early Aug and 20 Oct. No stalking on Sundays. If further information is needed please phone 07885 531562 or email calumdalchosnie@yahoo.co.uk

Remains much the same as before - the Estate website gives the flavour.

https://www.chesthill.com/hillwalking-access/

Recent development is Perth and Kinross Council's imposition of a Clearway around Invervar (which is being enforced with ticketing of cars not in recognised parking spaces)....and the Estate planning to close the car park Sept and Oct.

A Leopard doesn't change its shorts as Pratchett was fond of saying.

You are quite right, it is just that particular estate. It is just how we talk about it at home...we always call it Glen Lyon. Incorrect! Sorry

I was out on these hills again a few weeks ago, first time in over a decade.

While the estate definitely doesn't want walkers there, there's no actual access problem.

There is a bit of a parking problem, though - it's very much busier than it used to be, and people parking along the verges have prompted the instatement of a clearway, so there's less space than there used to be and more vehicles wanting to use it.

We didn't arrive early, and ended up parking about a kilometre and a half west along the road, in an area by the river with a fair bit of space.

Last year I saw about 15 cars there with police tickets on the windscreens. To be fair they were stupidly parked - an emergency vehicle would have struggled to get through.

We were there a couple of months ago, enough parking if you didn't mind a 1.5km walk to the start of the round. There were apparently many cars with tickets at the end of the day, though there was a lot of very anti-social verge/passing place parking. I'm not sure about the actual ticketing though. If it was the estate or some private contractor doling out tickets (which I have heard of) then they could be ignored. If it was the police it's different, but I'd have thought the police had bigger fish to fry than driving up a relatively remote glen to monitor parking.

I'm with you on the signage. We did it clockwise as per the signs, though that was mainly because I'd already been round anti-clockwise many years ago.  

Thanks all for your input.

I reckon we'll do the walk midweek to avoid weekend parking. 

It seems that Perth and Kinross Council are ignoring their statutory duty in upholding the Scottish Outdoor Access Code in this particular case. 

The landowner of North Chesthill is Alastair Riddell. The Scottish Rights of Way & Access Society (Scotways) Officer is Alison Riddell. But that's just a cynical 2+2=5. 

I've been there a couple of times fairly recently, both midweek, and parking was fine, but I can see that summer weekends could be tricky as the car park isn't very big. As others have said, if you ignore most of the signage, there should not be any access problems in practice.

Interesting to read the text on the website, which is even worse than the signage. A cynic might think the wording is meant to discourage people taking access in any month outside December to March, when weather and snow on the Lawers and glen Lyon roads will put many off anyway. Normally I'm not particularly militant about this sort of thing, but since 2003 it's been a right, not a "privilege" of responsible access, and "responsible" doesn't mean being obliged to comply with any arbitrary restriction the landowner seeks to impose. It seems fair to call the restrictions arbitrary if no other sporting estate with Munros on their ground feels the need for similar.

Amongst the rest of the verbiage on the website, interesting to see that there seems to be an attempt to effectively ban camping, by stating that walkers should be off the hills by 1900 in summer!

They also go on a lot about sustainability. Of course they mean sustainability of their stalking business, not anything environmental - the best way forward for that would be getting rid of most of the deer.

Why does the estate care what direction you walk? I can see they'd rather you stuck to the established path but what difference does it make to them which direction you walk it?

The link claims that one direction is less likely to drive deer off the estate. 

Surely that'll save the bother of shooting them?

I saw this access issue was also discussed on walkhighlands https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=107564 with some proactive complainers. Also a claim of harassment. 

"Responsible access is a public privilege."

Interesting line from the estate website. Perhaps that explains the estate owners attitude to hill access.

unfortunately its not new, I remember access problems in parts of upper Glen Lyon back in the early 1980s when I stayed in Killin

As mentioned in that walkhighlands thread, it is worth reporting any access issues, otherwise this sort of behaviour will spread to other estates.

"The relevant access officer is Dave Stubbs, email him on dstubbs@pkc.gov.uk or phone 01738 475347

Might be worth copying in Davie Black at Mountaineering Scotland as he is looking into the car park closure too access@mountaineering.scot"