UKH

The report on the initial consultation on parking in Eryri has been sent out. Broadly, it sounds like the feedback was a yes to the idea of “sustainable tourism” in principle, but that firstly they need to sort out the public transport to a decent standard.

Sounds sensible to me (assuming they now listen to the consultation). Anyone else had a look and have any thoughts?

It arrived in my junk mailbox, so I didn't see it immediately.  Once I realised that I was unlikely to get spammed in Welsh I opened it and had a look.

Most of the conclusions fall into "No shit, Sherlock" territory, but that is often the outcome of consultations, they provide evidence for what is (or should be) blindingly obvious.  People support the idea of sustainable tourism but are sceptical that it can be delivered - what a surprise. Better parking, more frequent and more reliable bus services, safer provision for walking and cycling.  Locals have different needs from visitors, and different groups of visitors have different needs.  All stating the obvious, but a basis to go to the next stage using evidence rather than assumptions.

I suppose from our perspective it is helpful that it recognises that what it terms "Special Interest groups", meaning not only outdoor activities/mountaineering/climbing but also equestrians and motorhomes, have different needs to both locals and 'holiday' visitors.  Outdoor activities want to be able to get to our chosen locations earlier, and leave later, and visit throughout the year when other visitor numbers are lower. We may have heavy and/or bulky equipment unsuited to public transport, and outdoor centres may have minibuses and trailers.  We may need to revise our plans at short notice.  There may be safety considerations.  There is a clear conflict between these needs and a policy of encouraging everyone into transport hubs from where they travel onwards by public transport.  The report acknowledges that if the provisions don't meet people's needs then they won't use them, but doesn't (so far as I can see) recognise that the consequence might be that these visitors, and their spending (which makes a significant contribution to the local economy), may simply go elsewhere.  

The crunch will come at the next stage, when actual proposals emerge.  I think they have learned from previous initiatives which attempted to largely exclude cars from the central area, but it will be interesting to see what they come up with.

I can't say I'm not worried. I live within about 2 hours' drive from Snowdonia, but at least double that by public transport. Anything which makes it more difficult to move around there could easily mean it is not worth staying in the area and I might as well just visit for the day.  If they make that too difficult as well then I might end up going to the Lakes more often.

Yeah, I was glad to see that enough climbers and such had contributed for our interests to be noted in there. As you say, we’ll see what happens when they come forth with any proposals I guess. 

I think the report is over-emphasising car traffic and not addressing the general increase in road traffic. Having busses and vans and the odd lorry and motorbikes as well as bicycles on the Snowdonia roads is a general problem from my point of view. Also it generally does not address the elephant in the Snowdonia room in that, in my view, it has too many visitors already. Exchanging cars for busses and bicycles while increasing the overall number of visitors is not, in my view, the way forward.

Can I upload the report (PDF file) to UKC?

The bit that jumped out for me was the request for more water points

Without the cars I don't think the visitor levels (even higher than at present) would be a problem.  Go to Switzerland and check out the likes of Zermatt (a car-free town).

Snowdon itself probably has too many visitors, but it's one mountain.  If you want quiet, pick any of the others.

An electric bus every 20 minutes is hardly disruptive compared with a constant stream of cars.

The park and ride is fab.  Vans overnighting filling all the laybys is bad.

For what it's worth there are other moves to improving public transport e.g.:

https://bustimes.org/services/t10-bangor-corwen-via-betws-y-coed

For a winter timetable that's not at all bad - I don't think the Ogwen Valley has ever had that level of bus service.  The gap in Betws on the early morning one is interesting - time for breakfast?

That said, the times aren't coordinated with the trains - I was looking at using it and the train I checked misses at Bangor by 5 minutes.

Worth noting that the badly named stop "Pont Pen-Y-Benglog, opposite Pen Y Benglog" should be named "Ogwen Cottage" and people might know where it was!   Also I'd say needs stops adding at the Gwern Gofs.

But it's a start, and having it start back at Corwen is interesting - a nascent park and ride for those arriving from the A5 direction?

As there are only 3 main roads across Snowdonia which give access to near enough everything, 3 such routes (say hourly and with a later finish, and short workings to Pen y Pass from Llanberis) would provide excellent coverage of the whole Park, enabling far better access without a car for e.g. day trips from the North West cities.

Are you kidding ? Snowdonia is considerably more than Llanberis.  The main road from Dollgellau to Porthmadog is in Snowdonia, for instance.

Certainly not the area of highest demand, though, so the cars there do less harm.  But add a 4th route (and operate some sort of public transport oriented service on the Welsh Highland Railway) and you cover that, too.

The vast majority of demand for Snowdonia is to Snowdon, and secondarily the Ogwen Valley.  Covering those two properly would get rid of loads of the cars.  It's very much easier to serve than the Lake District which would require 10-15 routes to connect it all.

It's not bad, but I suspect that if you want to get people out of cars in large numbers for trips within the area, you really need to start getting to "turn up and ride" frequencies - say every fifteen minutes during peak times - so that people don't need to get over the activation energy of looking up the timetable and corralling friends, children etc to get out of the house on time, risking a two hour wait, worrying about when to catch the bus back etc. Or you need to hit car use with a big stick (in a way that doesn't penalize people on essential trips). Or ideally both. I don't think this is totally unrealistic for the most popular areas of North Wales (or the Lakes, or various other super touristy areas), but it'd take a leap of faith to get there...

Last bus times would also be a big problem, otherwise people will undoubtedly get stranded. Or end up getting injured trying to rush to get the last one when if they were in a car they could take their time and maybe pick an easier route down.

It may be completely selfish but all I can think about is how these changes will affect me as a climber. The flexibility of being able to turn up when convenient, to get to exactly where we want to be and to leave whenever we get down will be hard to replace like for like with a bus service, particularly if it's focussed on the majority of the traffic. A system that works really well for 95% of visitors to the park could well end up being a pain in the arse for 95% of people who use UKC. I really hope the BMC are getting heavily involved in this to advocate for the minority of the hill-going public who get off the beaten track.