dog fouling in the hills

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rob sykes 02 Jan 2019

went for a walk up mam tor this morning with my daughter, approaching the top from the "gap" by the road to edale.

as we walked up we went off the path (5 - 10 metres) to look at the view and a lady passed us walking a dog. the dog walked off the path near us and did a sizeable poo which we saw as we returned to the path.  i told the lady that this had happened and asked her if she was going to pick it up.  her reply was that it was ok as it happened off the path and that the sheep did the same thing. she then walked off.

her reaction both puzzled and surprised me: the dog did this no more than 10m from the path and the hill was very busy with families - many of which would stray off the path and the risk of anyone treading in it would be high.

i'm not a dog owner so i'm unsure of etiquette here.  is it normal and acceptable for owners to allow their dogs to do this?  was i right or wrong to mention this to the owner?  finally, could/should i have said more to ask the owner to pick this up?

 

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 TMM 02 Jan 2019
In reply to rob sykes:

'Stick & flick' is the local policy in National Trust and Woodland Trust sites. Flick poo into undergrowth. Much better than the ridiculous sight of all those poo bags hanging from trees awiating their owners to collect them "on the way back".

Take it home with you or move it out away from an area where it is likely to be trod in.

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 EarlyBird 02 Jan 2019
In reply to rob sykes:

The least she should have done is put the droppings in a plastic bag  before discarding them. Dog poo is very vulnerable to bad weather and without a raincoat it can degrade very quickly.

Joking aside in many areas  dog owners are asked to "stick and flick" dog poo off the path rather than bagging it. It's a judgement call on whether it's appropriate to leave or retrieve - an obvious retrieve is anywhere where people are likely to traipse through the deposit, so paths in general (or "stick and flick" if in the countryside) and the urban environment in particular. But that's just my opinion.

Post edited at 13:53
Removed User 02 Jan 2019
In reply to rob sykes:

What about the tissue paper dumped everwhere by  humans, at least the turds blend in!

 

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 marsbar 02 Jan 2019
In reply to rob sykes:

I'm not clear, was is on flat grass/open rocks or was it in long grass or under growth?  

If it''s in long grass or undergrowth I think it's fine. 

If it's not then it isn't ideal but on the path would be worse. 

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 deepsoup 02 Jan 2019
In reply to EarlyBird:

>  an obvious retrieve is anywhere where people are likely to traipse through the deposit

A less obvious one, or at least one that fewer people seem to be aware of, is anywhere that livestock are grazing.  Cattle and horses especially, but sheep as well.  The concentration of dog mess around routes popular with dog walkers can be a very dangerous vector for disease and parasitic infection for them.

 daWalt 02 Jan 2019
In reply to TMM:

> 'Stick & flick' - at the person responsible?....

 

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 Tringa 02 Jan 2019
In reply to rob sykes:

> went for a walk up mam tor this morning with my daughter, approaching the top from the "gap" by the road to edale.

> as we walked up we went off the path (5 - 10 metres) to look at the view and a lady passed us walking a dog. the dog walked off the path near us and did a sizeable poo which we saw as we returned to the path.  i told the lady that this had happened and asked her if she was going to pick it up.  her reply was that it was ok as it happened off the path and that the sheep did the same thing. she then walked off.

> her reaction both puzzled and surprised me: the dog did this no more than 10m from the path and the hill was very busy with families - many of which would stray off the path and the risk of anyone treading in it would be high.

> i'm not a dog owner so i'm unsure of etiquette here.  is it normal and acceptable for owners to allow their dogs to do this?  was i right or wrong to mention this to the owner?  finally, could/should i have said more to ask the owner to pick this up?

 

Personally I say this is not acceptable.

I'm a dog owner and I have to admit that sometimes I do not always clear up after my dog (eg I am literally miles from any road/path/track anywhere or I have forgotten the poo bags) but the vast majority of the time I do bag it and put it in a bin.

The argument about the sheep doing it too is spurious and to me sounds like an excuse of someone who was caught out.

Those who bag the poo and then hang it on bushes are pretty much as bad. Why do they do it? Do they think improves the ambience of the countryside they are, presumably, enjoying while exercising their dog? They have bought the poo bags and done the potentially messy part(believe me I have personal experience) by picking it up, but then display it for other to see.

Dave

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 geordiepie 02 Jan 2019
In reply to rob sykes:

Depends entirely on the position of the offending turd, the vegetation and the likelihood of it being trod on.

I would much rather leave one to decompose naturally than stick it in a plastic bag.

XXXX 02 Jan 2019
In reply to TMM:

"Stick and flick" is the policy of the pathologically lazy, of those who care nothing for wildlife, of those who have forgotten or never known what it is to experience the outdoors from off the path.

There are areas where I live that we no longer go to as a family because of the mountains of dog shit. Stick and flick has become shit and leave it, we've gone back 20 years.

If I see anyone not picking up after their dog they get a mouthful from me. Not literally.

20
 girlymonkey 02 Jan 2019
In reply to Tringa:

> Those who bag the poo and then hang it on bushes are pretty much as bad. 

I would disagree, I think they are much worse. If you are not going to take the poo, please don't leave it wrapped in plastic!!

I'd say that somewhere busy it should always be removed. Middle of nowhere, leave it as long as not near river. It is overall better for the environment being left to decompose than going to landfill wrapped in plastic. It would also help if dogs were mostly fed on natural food rather than really unnatural stuff, that way the poo would be less toxic.

 

1
 Luke90 02 Jan 2019
In reply to rob sykes:

Next time, tell her what nonsense her sheep argument is. As grazing animals, their turds are vastly less offensive. They smell less, they're less sticky and they're much less likely to pass diseases to people.

My sister was very lucky not to get an eye infection as a child when she was trailing her hands through snow, got dog mess on them and then rubbed her eye without realising.

In my view, you were absolutely right to challenge her. There might be an argument for leaving it lying if it's well away from any paths or farm animals and in a genuinely remote area but a honeypot like Mam Tor is no place for that.

 Tobes 02 Jan 2019
In reply to rob sykes:

To compare sheep droppings to dog crap is utter sh1te (pun intended) the diet of these animals is totally different. Dog crap is closer to ours than that of a grazing animal. Imagine on her walk if there were human turds all along the path, doubt she’d be that impressed.

’some’ dog owners really are deluded fantasists. 

2
In reply to rob sykes:

>  was i right or wrong to mention this to the owner? 

Too many dogs, too much sh!t everywhere, too many feckless owners. Dogs on pub seats, dogs in restaurants, dogs in hotel rooms, dogs on park benches, dogs on playing fields, sh1t all over Keswick, dogs treated like kids instead of dogs. Dog World capital of the UK.

A curse across the Lakes and elsewhere. It has all gone way too far and there are serious business opportunities for dog-free pubs, dog free hotels, dog free restaurants, dog-free shops.

DC

 

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In reply to Dave Cumberland:

You're more of a cat man then? 

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 Ridge 02 Jan 2019
In reply to Dave Cumberland:

> A curse across the Lakes and elsewhere. It has all gone way too far and there are serious business opportunities for dog-free pubs, dog free hotels, dog free restaurants, dog-free shops.

Wetherspoons in Keswick is dog free..

 

 Dave the Rave 02 Jan 2019
In reply to geordiepie:

> Depends entirely on the position of the offending turd, the vegetation and the likelihood of it being trod on.

> I would much rather leave one to decompose naturally than stick it in a plastic bag.

Also don’t forget the viscosity of the turd. At the minute my dogs faeces are spoonable only. Can’t wait for this hard frost tonight. 

 wercat 02 Jan 2019
In reply to Dave the Rave:

many times has my hand accidentally come into contact with sheepshit or cow pudding.   It's just a bit of a minor inconvenience for a moment unless you meet the horror of a tapeworm.   Dog shit on the other hand really spoils your day and in the wrong circumstances can ruin it totally - walking round with a little green stain on your clothes as opposed to reeking biohazard desn't bear comparison.  Any kid who had a rabbit to care for and clean out knows how innocuous herbivore shit is.

 Wainers44 02 Jan 2019
In reply to Dave Cumberland:

You must have the opposite luck to me then. As a dog owner i am skilled at finding all the dogs unwelcome places in the Lakes, and yes there are plenty. 

Fair enough too as I wouldnt want dogs in the restaurant if i was having a nice meal. 

Dog sh*te around towns is a curse not only in the Lakes. Sadly its the numpties who seem to think that if it's dark and no one can see the heap their dog has created its OK to sneak away and leave it who are the main problem. Big fines and public name and shame would be a place to start. 

 Tom Valentine 02 Jan 2019
In reply to Dave the Rave:

As an occasional dogwalker I find this to be one of the main problems.

With the best will in the world it can be difficult to bag something with the consistency of pea soup.

And flicking it isn't a whole lot easier.

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 Pkrynicki1984 02 Jan 2019
In reply to geordiepie:

I for one never hang in trees or anywhere else unless I’m walking back that way and it’s more sensible to not carry it my rucksack or pocket , wrapping in plastic ? We buy corn starch bags which bio degrade in 3-6 months , and that’s after we put them in the bin not to rot outside wherever dumped. 

4
 Dave the Rave 02 Jan 2019
In reply to Tom Valentine:

Yeah. If it’s on the street then asking for a bucket of water is the best option for the runs unless it’s chuxking it down.

Otherwise, in bracken or long grass near a busy path I would leave it.

2
 Fruitbat 02 Jan 2019
In reply to rob sykes:

Good on you for challenging her.

The problem with stick-and-flick, 'leave it if it's 10m from a path' or any similar guideline is that it leaves the judgment to the dog owner/walker, which would be fine if they accepted their responsibilities and used good judgement.  Unfortunately, many will be happy to misinterpret or wrongly apply such guidlines to suit their own convenience i.e. leave it were it is. 

I'm not a fan of any of these policies as, aside from the above-mentioned, how do the NT or whoever know that others won't be affected by the dog shit? Ive heard of forestry workers coming into contact with it, and of soldiers crawling into it when in training areas. Not nice.

 

 

In reply to XXXX:

Before we moved to  The Black Mountains 5 years ago we lived near Winchester. One fine spring day we headed into Micheldever  woods to see the bluebells and have a picnic. We literally struggled to find an area large enough to put our picnic blanket down which was free from dog mess, and this was some way off the main path. Not a pleasant experience when you have children aged 2 and 3 with you. I think in popular areas dog owners should take it home. It is not the same as veggie sheep poo. 

 wercat 02 Jan 2019
In reply to blackmountainbiker:

it's closer to vomit than sheepshit!

 marsbar 02 Jan 2019
In reply to Tom Valentine:

In the case of liquid poo, find a flower bed or other source of soil, use the bag to take a bag full of soil, tip it on the offending deposit and then either bag up the soil or not depending on where you are.  

 Skyfall 02 Jan 2019
In reply to rob sykes:

We are lucky enough to live in countryside, but with a path which goes up our lane and crosses into a field directly opposite the house.  We have no problem at all sharing our location with walkers (of course we walk past lovely houses in the Lakes and Wales when on holiday ourselves) and we often chat to them.  Howrver, we regularly have dog walkers leave bags of poo dangling off hour hedges, several times just left on the steps up to our front door and also in our bin (behind a gate etc). We have been amazed, and not in a good way, by other country lovers thoughtlessness.  

 johncook 02 Jan 2019
In reply to Dave the Rave:

You need to start feeding your dog properly in that case.

2
 wintertree 02 Jan 2019
In reply to Skyfall:

We have a small patch of land with a footpath across it.  I take care of it and have worked to significantly improve the quality of the surface and drainage.

Several people use it as their dog’s daily dumping ground.  There exists a temptation to find out where they live, to collect a week’s worth of their dog’s mess and to smear it under their car door handles and all over their house’s door handles late one night.  

Currently I’m biding my time in the hopes that one of the more responsible dog walkers will crack first - they’re the ones whose pets occasionally decide to eat it...

 

 marsbar 02 Jan 2019
In reply to Skyfall:

As a general question, ignoring the behind  a gate bit, would you (and others) rather people used your bin than leave the poo?  

Serious question.  

It really wouldn't bother me if bagged poo was put in my outside bin.  But I assume not everyone feels the same. 

Obviously I always used to try to use public bins. 

3
 girlymonkey 02 Jan 2019
In reply to johncook:

It can be stress or excitement related. Our dog's digestion is particularly sensitive to stress. Thankfully,  with a lot of training, we are managing to get a lot more calmness and less stress these days, so far less nasty digestion.

2
 girlymonkey 02 Jan 2019
In reply to marsbar:

I would never use someone's bin as I know people can be sensitive about it, but I would be totally happy for someone to use mine if it was out. 

 Dax H 02 Jan 2019
In reply to marsbar:

> As a general question, ignoring the behind  a gate bit, would you (and others) rather people used your bin than leave the poo?  

> Serious question.  

> It really wouldn't bother me if bagged poo was put in my outside bin.  But I assume not everyone feels the same. 

I think it would bother me. A guy at work used to bring his dog and often put a bag of shite in the bin and despite it being emptied weekly after a while it stank to high heaven to the point that you were gagging if you had to open it. He used to pressure wash the bin occasionally but it only helped for a week or so. Since his dog died though I don't think we have had to wash out the bin once and it must have been 4 or 5 years ago now since the last dog egg  was put in it. 

 

 marsbar 02 Jan 2019
In reply to Dax H:

Fair enough.

 

 

 kevin stephens 02 Jan 2019
In reply to rob sykes:

what about foxes? and wolves?

 marsbar 02 Jan 2019
In reply to kevin stephens:

A neighbour had a right go at me because a fox pooed in his garden and he assumed it was my dog.  

 FactorXXX 02 Jan 2019
In reply to marsbar:

> A neighbour had a right go at me because a fox pooed in his garden and he assumed it was my dog.  

Was the neighbour Dirty Gertie from Number 30?
 

 Tom Valentine 03 Jan 2019
In reply to marsbar:

It would probably be simpler just to carry a half kilo of soil in my pocket so I wouldn't have to make a diversion and steal it from someone's garden.

Removed User 03 Jan 2019
In reply to rob sykes:

Its quite pleasant on a frosty morning picking up the turds in a bag, it warms up my hands a treat!

 Monk 03 Jan 2019
In reply to Pkrynicki1984:

> I for one never hang in trees or anywhere else unless I’m walking back that way

 

What about all the people walking past that turd-draped tree in the meantime until you pick it up again? It's not nice. Don't do it.

 

 profitofdoom 03 Jan 2019
In reply to rob sykes:

> her reaction both puzzled and surprised me

I am no longer the tiniest bit puzzled or surprised by either the reactions/ actions of many dog owners, or what they say to me

I have had dogs running up to me numerous times, more than once slobbering all over my trousers. Other times going mad barking their heads off about 2 inches away from me

The owners invariably say "Oooooh he/she is a bit excited today" and/or "Don't worry he/she wouldn't hurt a fly"

Dear dog owners: I couldn't care less if he/she is a bit excited today. I couldn't care less if he/she wouldn't hurt a fly. I just want you to keep the dog away from me, remove all dog poo from where I walk, and have a nice day

Rant over. Thanks for listening

7
 asteclaru 03 Jan 2019
In reply to profitofdoom:

as someone not that fond of dogs myself, this is something of a pet peeve of mine too, especially with all the signs requesting that dogs are kept on lead

I don't care how much of a harmless angel you think your mutt is, I don't want it running at me

> I am no longer the tiniest bit puzzled or surprised by either the reactions/ actions of many dog owners, or what they say to me

> I have had dogs running up to me numerous times, more than once slobbering all over my trousers. Other times going mad barking their heads off about 2 inches away from me

> The owners invariably say "Oooooh he/she is a bit excited today" and/or "Don't worry he/she wouldn't hurt a fly"

> Dear dog owners: I couldn't care less if he/she is a bit excited today. I couldn't care less if he/she wouldn't hurt a fly. I just want you to keep the dog away from me, remove all dog poo from where I walk, and have a nice day

> Rant over. Thanks for listening

 

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 Robert Durran 03 Jan 2019
In reply to girlymonkey:

>  It would also help if dogs were mostly fed on natural food rather than really unnatural stuff, that way the poo would be less toxic.

Why?

 

 GrahamD 03 Jan 2019
In reply to Robert Durran:

Whatever happened to the white dog shit remember being so common when I was a kid ?

 girlymonkey 03 Jan 2019
In reply to Robert Durran:

The more natural the food, the more gets broken down in the digestion process. The dog produces less in the first place and what the produce decomposes far better

 nikoid 03 Jan 2019
In reply to profitofdoom:

I liked the rant! Especially as I have been bitten by dogs three times in recent years. Far too many dogs/clueless owners these days.

4
 Tom Valentine 03 Jan 2019
In reply to girlymonkey:

In the context of your post, what does "natural" dog food mean?

 marsbar 04 Jan 2019
In reply to Tom Valentine:

Tinned dog food doesn't have much meat in it and has lots of cheaper grains and fake meat.  

It's more natural for dogs to eat meat.  

Some people also only feed their dogs raw meat as that is what dogs would be expected to eat without human intervention.  

It isn't normal for dog poo to be liquid all the time.  

Hence me not taking soil with me on a regular basis, it should be unusual to need it.  

If it's normal then the dog might be ill or the food might not be suitable.  

I used to feed mine "barking heads" 

 marsbar 04 Jan 2019
In reply to GrahamD:

Not so many dogs eating bones from the butchers regularly I'm guessing.

 Timmd 04 Jan 2019
In reply to rob sykes:

You probably could have said more, but with some people it doesn't make any different how much somebody says if they're technically correct in what they say but still just a random person, 'It's none of your business' seems to factor more highly than 'You do have a point' on the part of the person doing whatever it is. An agreeable approach probably helps. 

Post edited at 01:27
 girlymonkey 04 Jan 2019
In reply to marsbar:

I think it depends a bit on each dogs digestion too. Foods like Barking heads doesn't work for ours. We can only use cold pressed kibble or proper meat. We use 50/50 butternut box and a cold pressed kibble. The butternut box is excellent, but super pricey! 

 Jamie Hageman 05 Jan 2019
In reply to rob sykes:

I was collecting driftwood off the shore at Corpach (near Fort William) last year.  I grabbed a decent-sized log and shoved it under my arm ready to pick up another when...  arghhhhhhh - covered in dog shit/diarrhea.  I had to drop everything and wash my arms and clothes as best as I could in the sea.  I then ran home (luckily only a two minute dash away) to do a deep clean.  Hideous.

The walk along Caol waterfront is very dodgy - if you look at the beautiful mountains around, you WILL step on a turd.  The whole walk is lined in shite.  No wonder kids don't play outside as much as they used to.  Dog ownership has gone crazy in the UK.

I remember going to Paris years ago and finding it pretty gross that there was a fair bit of dig shit around.  The Fort William area is now far worse.

Another example of lazy dog owners is by the Caledonian Canal - all along the towpaths and the grass by Neptunes Staircase is always covered.  Again, it's a place where children should be playing and families having picnics.

The biggest worry is not knowing where the next shite is.  If there were specific places where 'squeezers' (as I call them) could squeeze and leave other places unharmed, I'd be far more relaxed when out walking.

Yuk!

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