UKH

Inspired by the Navigation on the Ben thread I've decided that I could do with a compass and a bit of navigation practice (I know how to use a compass but can't say I've had much navigation practice, certainly I've never paced out distances or anything).

I don't currently own a compass, what should I get?

In reply to MeMeMe:

Can't go too far wrong with a Silva Expedition 4. Decent sized base plate for winter use, all the useful roamer scales, the latest version also includes a slope angle measuring card (avalanche risk) and a scaled lanyard, if you're into that sort of thing. I've had a few for work purposes, and never had a problem with them

In reply to MeMeMe:

Silva Expedition 4 or a Ranger - both great in their own ways.

In reply to adam clarke:

I didn't know they now do scaled lanyards! Just had a look and you can't buy them on their own which is a real shame

In reply to MeMeMe:

I wasn't happy with last Silva so went Suunto for my good compass (I have some spares for scouts to borrow when they forget theirs).

Roamer scale not so good, but I use a separate one anyway.

This site has some good stuff. Luckily enough to get lots of practice as a scout leader, but if you want to improve your nav then on a nice clear day go off route and find some specific contour features, or ends of walls. Then work on pacing back to route and walking on a bearing to a point beyond the visible hill crest, so that you can test your accuracy as it comes into view. Work on planning navigation steps using distance, direction, destination (grid ref), description (expected landscape), duration (expected time) and being able to move between points without needing to constantly stare at map.

https://shavenraspberry.com/product-category/compass-navpacks/

In reply to MeMeMe:

I'm a fan of type 4 and variants there of!  Silva Expedition is what we ve got currently and spot on for me.  I prefer longer base plate models as I find easier to work with gloves on, and a 1:40k roamer as I like the mountain maps of that scale.

Cheers

Stu

In reply to adam clarke:

Romer. It's an eponym.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romer

The quality of Silva compasses seems to have dropped. Suunto seems to have maintained their quality.

In reply to MeMeMe:

You're welcome to a copy of the navigation bullet point notes i use for teaching DofE participants.

In reply to captain paranoia:

Yeah, go on then, can you PM me them? I've got a very logical mind but I've never been taught any kind of map reading or navigation so any pointers are welcome.

In reply to MeMeMe:

Just got the Expedition 4 in my Christmas stocking ready for some winter ML navigation this winter. I’m curious to see how it holds out, my old old silva compass was pretty solid, however another one I got more recently as a spare wasn’t as solid but it was at the cheaper end of the scale for silva.

In reply to MeMeMe:

You'll have to pop me a PM so i can get your email address; cant attach to UKC messaging.

In reply to MeMeMe:

When you buy your second compass... A thumb compass is great for trail runs etc. Not a main compass.. 

In reply to captain paranoia:

Hi, PMed you so you should get my email.

Ta.

In reply to MeMeMe:

Much more basic, but I've always found it very useable and have used it in anger a great deal for multi leg nav without visibility is the Silva Ranger SL. Negatives first- It's small and doesn't have a transparent Romer. But it does have a sighting mirror, good lume, a long enough baseline when opened flat and the ability to pin it to a rucksack strap for constant referral. You can pin it to a jacket, open where you can see it , if you're not wearing a membrane waterproof.  It's easy to handle and folds closed. 

I've used it as my primary compass since 1983 despite having a couple of Expedition baseplates and its big brother sighting  Ranger (25? I think). I replaced it a few years ago as the dye from the needle had dissolved in the oil (!)...after 35 years, but the new one is just as good. If you go for anything else I'd still recommend one of these as a backup tied to your whistle. 

https://silvasweden.uk/collections/outdoor-compass/products/ranger-sl

Readily available, eg https://www.absolute-snow.co.uk/V/SILVA_Ranger_SL_Compass_Directional_Navig...

In reply to Basemetal:

Talking about pace counting, I used to have a Silva compass with an attachable counter (to 10 ) to click off every completed 100m or yards. ( think I must have bought this as an accessory)

Last time I looked at the Silva website I could find nothing similar.  Does such a thing still exist elsewhere?

In reply to Basemetal:

I use a Silva Field 26. Also a compact, folding mirror compass, but apparently no longer made (at least not on the Silva website). It has a normal compass capsule, unlike the Ranger SL.

https://wet-and-wild.co.uk/products/520/silva-field-26

A romer is only really necessary for reading grid refs, which is a communication thing, not a navigation thing (likewise reading numeric bearings).

A simple ruler can be used for measuring distances and grid refs if necessary. I also carry a tool of my own devising for measuring bearings, distances, slope angle and 8-fig grid refs (1:25k).

In reply to Dave B:

+1. I'm using my thumb compass a lot just to get the hang of it for races next year.

Edit: Interesting to see 1:40k Romers. My main compass is a Silva 4/54, which is a Type 4 baseplate with a rotating disc rather than a needle and a prismatic sighting system. It's a bit battered and has a 1:63,360 (1 inch to 1 mile) Romer. Maybe time to update it.

In reply to Billhook:

I've only ever seen home made ones (small spring toggles).

In reply to Billhook:

I have one of those on a baseplate compass  tho it split the baseplate shortly after drilling the hole to fit it. Someone asked on here 12 years ago and drew a blank. I'm guessing Silva got fed up with breakages? Loads of other tally counter options though, like the Army use.

In reply to MeMeMe:

I bought a silva a couple of years ago having grown up with them and thought they were a quality brand. It's hardly been used (for obvious reasons) and when out on the hill last weekend the oil leaked out all over my pack and it's now of course unusable. 

Will have a look for a suunto to replace it. Cheers for the thread. 

In reply to Billhook:

fle bay sell 

small hard to use with gloves and freeze up    I keep one a land yarn 

2 - Knitting Crochet Row Counter - Stitch Tally Large and Small Fits Needle D69

In reply to MeMeMe:

Silva quality ?  When I started they lasted and worked till the bezel was unreadable.  Nowadays not so - how does quality diminish ?  Went over to suunto.  Solid bezel that worked with gloves and really good luminous bright readable bearing to.  Use both these days but carry a spare.  

In reply to barry donovan:

My understanding is that manufacturing moved from Sweden to China (I think) a few years ago.  I'm sure the Chinese can produce goods of high quality, but not if they're manufacturing to meet a price.

Martin

In reply to Martin Hore:

yer what do the Chinese know about  

Compass 🧭🤔

sorry I’ve had to much Christmas 

In reply to barry donovan:

Do you find the Suunto’s better? My last two Silvas have disappointed.

In reply to barry donovan:

Moving production to China, I think.

In reply to MeMeMe:

Other consideration is how good is your near vision, if a problem hunt around for a compass with a good/larger magnifying lense to help read the map eg Suunto A30…. Other makes/models exist

In reply to MeMeMe:

Respectfully, that is an oxymoron. Sort of like... I Know how to use a rope but can't say i have done much climbing. 

To use a compass when you really need to use a compass isn't straightforward. 

You don't know what you don't know and all that. 🙂

In reply to captain paranoia:

Any particular issues noticed regarding silva quality since this move? I’ve always found silva more sturdy than suunto, but my last silva developed a bubble in the liquid within a year of purchase. Wondered if it was just a one off.