UKH

I used to walk in the Scottish hills in just Buffalo gear, no waterproofs, no matter the weather. I found this worked perfectly - better than taking the waterproofs route - you're always warm and comfortable even when soaked (I wore a waterproof hat), and you're bone dry again in half an hour when the sun comes out again.

Does anyone know of a top that behaves in a similar way? I don't mean a clone of Buffalo eg the Marmot tops, but a different kind of garment that has similar properties, but perhaps not as warm as the Buffalo top?

Paramo

In my experience it certainly fulfils the getting soaked bit!

Yeah I've heard other people say similar - I'll have to check it out

Is it basically Pertex lined with microfleece? Are you comfortable when wet in it?

which one would you recommend? The Paramo Velez Adventure Smock?

No but I didn't like buffalo in that way either. The wet but warm thing doesn't work for me.

Buffalo active shirt:

http://www.buffalosystems.co.uk/products/active-shirt/

Buffalo active light shirt:

http://www.buffalosystems.co.uk/products/active-lite-shirt/

My active shirt is 15+ years old and still serviceable. I am in the process of replacing like for like. 

Useful thread below:

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/gear/buffalo_users_-_assemble-720638?v=1

Join the cult. Stay in the cult.

Paramo smells like wet dog :p 

(disclaimer, Paramo does not actually smell like wet dog)

you mean like Marmot Driclime or Rab Vaporise stuff?

i find my buffalo top is too hot for anything but winter but those are far better for most of the year. 

Ah, the Marmot Driclime Windshirt -- possibly the ultimate climbing top. Mine from ~2006 is the business, and just about still going. Forget the 'ether' versions, they're about as good as a crisp packet.

I'd second that, Driclime undoubtedly one of the best and most functional products that has ever been made. The only issue is that the lack the 'hangar appeal', which has led to a lot of shops favouring more visually appealing softshells, despite the fact they're no way near as practical for UK use.

Interestingly Rab are re-launching their Vapour Rise range for Autumn/Winter later this year, which sounds like it's got potential. Dan Bailey is going to be reviewing each product from the range (three in total), so watch this space a little later in the year, as it could be what the OP is after.

I have a Marmot driclime somewhere which I used for years for mountain rock. I think mine is a women's XL which is why I found it on the Needlesport sale rail for about 25 quid in I think 2000. I wasn't a perfect fit, but I can't imagine it fitted many women very well as it feel like a bloke's medium, with just slightly shorter sleeves that you would expect!

Years later I found a North Face version of the driclime which was slightly more refined - still use that occasionally. And then 5 years ago I reviewed Wild Country's go at the same kind of jacket - they Dynamic jacket https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/clothing/casual/wild_country_clothing_range... That's still often the jacket I grab for cragging, and is a really nice, simple and effective coat.

So I agree, shelled microfleeces are really great for UK conditions but having said that, having been a Buffalo user in the Highlands for quite some years, I don't think I would recommend even a hooded driclime for use without waterproofs. I never really liked the feel of getting soaked in my Buffalo shirt, better for winter, but I think you could end up quite cold and miserable in driclime or similar out hillwalking on a munro if it rained hard - so for Andy S's original question, a driclime or similar is really good, but I'd take a light waterproof as well.

Have a look at the montane hydrogen extreme jacket or smock. https://www.montane.com/mens-c1/hydrogen-extreme-jacket-p833

I had the original montane extreme jacket at it was very similar to buffalo. Sold it as it was too warm and got the hydrogen . The out fabric is not as durable (or water repellent it seems from the description) as the extreme but it suits my requirements more. I'm yet to try it out in a full on deluge but light rain has been dealt with fine so far.

The other option may be a heavier weight Rab Vapour Rise jacket. 👍 

Another vote for the Buffalo Active or Active Light. Rab Vapourise always felt like I was covered in wet tissue paper until it dried out as the lining was thinner than the Buffalo.

What I'd really like to see is a stripped down version of the vr alpine

Elasticated rather than velcro cuffs, I hate rock climbing with bulk around the wrist

A simple elasticated snug under helmet hood, too much faff, volume and material with the current vr alpine for rock and run

In short a simplified vr keeping the equilibrium outer and great lining

* Yes I realise the current vr is built as more of a featured mountain jacket bit I think a stripped back version would be great!

I was really keen on the hydrogen extreme smock - but it does not appear to still exist ;-(

Hi Ste,

I've just dropped Rab a line to see if we can get some more information ahead of their release.

I'll get an update posted as soon as I've heard back.

That would be good

Are you THE person who likes under helmet hoods? I've always found them distinctly annoying I suppose because I always wear a helmet. I don't want to have to take my helmet off in order to put a hood up. And then if you get too hot climbing, you can't just put the hood down to dump heat! 

That'll be me 😉 lol no actually I was thinking about something that was a cross over rock run type piece a long the lines of the Rab rampage but with a vr or driclime lining rather than the cool max, in fact the rampage with a vr lining would be perfect

At a stretch the hood might even go over a helmet 🙃

But not a fully featured thing 👍

Yeah, I was about 6 months too late to the party on that and they were gone (gutted). Had to go for the jacket instead.

2nd hand might be an option. 

Wouldn't a Rab Alpha Direct do the job?

I think the Alpha Direct have been discontinued, a great item but too hot for many people unless in cold conditions such as winter climbing.

My buffalo shirt is only worn when it's baltic. Don't wear my paramo much but I've found it ace when I have, it's still quite warm

My Rab VR alpine jacket is probably my favourite softshell, I have many others. It's so breathable and so usable across a huge range of conditions. It also makes a pretty good mid layer so can be used as a fleece

Do you find the sleeves on the Rab vr too tight? I do, even though my arms aren’t particularly big. It’s impossible to pull the sleeves up to cool down.
Maybe it’s a conservation of heat/efficient wicking feature?